Hi all
It's been a while since I posted any useful topic or comment, but this time I'm asking for help.
I got my first commission as an architect to design a reasonably big and expensive house somewhere on the southern bank of the Mediterranean see. Yahou!
We have started working on the design, and we have ended up working on two strongly different schemes that we are developing together to present to the client.
One is based on the patio model, but because we have many existing trees to keep, the patio is exploded in many differents patios that create different atmospheres in the house.
I have blurry memories of projects developing this kind of basic concept, I've found some examples in the work of the smithons, or van eyck... I was trying to look for others in my books, but the closest I've found was the hotel Koolhaas designed for Morocco.
Anybody as any relevant references to feed my thoughts?
(sorry for the terrible grammatical mistakes, I don't practice enough)
in this patio you can place a forest with river and a small town...
[imghttp://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_14017_w500h500q75bw1_1130212886.jpg[/img]
a-f... SANAA,was also my first association, they did some of these multiple-inside-out-embracing-room-cluster-building-concepts..
Thanks a-f, I'm pretty excited by the project! But as always, it's only a start, and you know how sketchy those starts are. Anyway, I've look at the few books I have about sejima's work, which is by the way a great reference and a proof of your excellent taste, but I was looking for something a bit smaller than this project.
The scale is always more important than what I would think at first when I found a reference. For example, the project of the smithons, the house of the future, is a patio house for a couple; but it's so small that when you scale it up to a family size house, you realize how much intimacy problems are emerging from the patio model.
But I'll check this project tonight at home, since I left my SANAA book there. Too bad. O wait, I got an internet connection. Thanks again a-f.
To all the others: bring it on!
"a proof of your excellent taste".. thanks, I'm blushing! Yes, it's difficult to design small scale with patios - the only examples I can think of are some classic large or medium scale structures, like Herzog & deMeurons Rehab in Basel, Van Eyck's Orphanage, Piet Blom's Kasbah, or several Candilis-Josic-Woods projects.
now where talking...
the first model picture, as well as the Bosch project, is exactly the kind of element that I need to convince my partners that this is a real potential. Thank you very much.
Mies is great of course (shit I can't name that pla I'm so lame) but I find the extreme transparency of his plans somehow not apropriate to the mediteranean culture. At the same time, the barcelona pavillon is still my favorite project, and is built in spain... So why not.
The Van Eyck orphanage is the one I was talking about earlier. The problem with the team ten era architects is to "sell" the architecture to a client. The ideas are always marvellous, the project clear as crystal, but the elevation always appear ugly to a non architect observer.
Thanks for your help a-f...
but then my next was a house - i think by alvaro siza - published just this year. the house worked its way down a hill and there was almost no visible house, just a cut down the hill with terraces. check out arch record this past year...
Steven, I guess you're talking about casa Tolo, a marvellous project indeed.
The clear relation between the plan and section is particularly amazing. Unfortunately, my site is just a big square, with no topographic quality, and with a view towards the sea, but only from the second floor.
Thanks for your effort yall. It's great to have everybody designing with me!
french- congrats on landing a gig. interesting idea, there must be several houses in california that achieve the landscape integration your thinking about. when I have a little more time, i'll see what i can pull up.
Also look at glen murcutt's work in austrailia....
I have a patrick blanc question for you (think you did his website). how his green wall system is assembled? if you have technical knowledge of how he builds- say so and I'll send you an email.
look for the local traditional or ancient house-layout - they are the best inspiration for a radical new interpretation or to get to a strong concept that fits the context (clima, the low tech cooling systems, habits...) and still designing a 21century-building.
thanks contemax.
I have looked at the traditional model of course. The thing is they are most of the time sited in a strong urban context (they give their specific appearance to the aerial view of the medinas for instance). Most of the time they are more than one storey high. The daytime rooms are on the basement, while a serie of balconies connect together rooms and bedrooms on the floors above.
The idea is to remodel this basic framework and programmatic layout to adapt it to a suburban site. Sounds simple, but when you try to build a one to two floors patio house, things are getting a bit tougher than what I thought.
I have already outline a basic programmatic distribution that fits the site. I'm looking for a way to articulate all this at the architectural scale. Somehow, I still need to look at recent examples before I'm able to digest and do something directly inspired by really ancient models.
And I don't want to end up doing something that look to much like the old thing. People don't like it when you try to teach them what they already know better than you...
treekiller, my younger brother did this website, as well as several french architect websites (is codename is : supersatori if you're looking for a talented artist to design a website: )).
I have only a limited knowledge about the green wall. The principle is really simple: they build a framing system with big plastic panels; they cover the panels with really thick felt sheets, and between the plastic and the felt, they pass an irigation system (basically plastic tubes with tiny holes); then they plant on the felt, and let it grow with huge amounts of water dispended on the system. Voilà!
There is another house of Siza's which came to mind, but unfortunately also makes use of natural topography. It might be good to look at however. It has a long terrace arranged along the side of a hill and slopes down in tight switchbacks to a sort of natural rocky area that fills with water as the tide comes in, and that becomes the pool for the house. Let me see if I can find it.
credited to alvaro leite siza vieira. so he's a junior, i guess? is that what 'leite' means? because the rest is the same as the name of the one we all know and love.
Leite ("milk") is just a middle name. In Brazil (so i am assuming it is the same in Portugal), any variation to the name (such as a middle name) exempts you from being a Jr. (Filho ou Junior are affixes for Jr's in portuguese). Very talented jr. in deed...
So, I typed this, and realized no-one actually cares, but oh well, it's friday.
French...i like the thought of exploding patios due to trees...just make sure each of them has a beautiful vista...you get to pick which patio to read my book on...where to have breakfast...views of the mediterranean...and here i am in Detroit...enjoy!
mmm...big square flat plot, views to sea from second floor level. yay. i too am drooling. something introvert, very horizontal, blank and dim on the rez-de-chausse, sometimes in sometimes out; lots of stuff like light coming the edges and corners. little dead gardens like the barcelona pavilion one with its statue; blackish wood like hiroshi nakao's... maybe you see the stairs through glass and through glass again and into wherever...or is this too tadao ando-ish? maybe with all this flatness, a not so flat promenade element , a ramp somewhere..possible where the entrance is raising the concrete hem skirt and hey presto, glass slicing through the floor platform with barely a distinction between inside and outside(sanaa) (maybe a slight texture change)...and the upper floor...yay....maybe all the brutalism on the g.f. goes up in one part and then dissipates into something light, elegant, ethereal milk white glass or too hackneyed you think? fine...how about nicely striated metal/timber-but-dont-kill the trees? and definetely a mezanine level, with nice simulating sections and internal views.
or
how about the other way up? very visually open on the ground floor, columns disappeaing mies-ian stlye into the ceiling...and the big perforated horizontal volume is atop, internal couryards affording partial views on the upper floor and perhaps connected up to one yummy open terrace looking towards the sea...and oh...your g.f. pations could be formed from the de stijl like loadbearing walls that drop from the perimeter of the upper floor...
gotta love barragan. Always disappoints me that there isn't a hammock and a bottle of Agrian's finest wine in the corner of those patio pictures. Go figure.
it was always very inspiring for me to think of irwing gill's work when i was seeking relationship to mediterrannian climate even though we are on the other side of the globe.
his work, among many samples i've seen, related to the similar climatic conditions very well (here in so. california we have medi. weather).
looking at one of his better preserved projects in los angeles, i have seen a small (3meters x 3m) patio or interior court, specifically worked into the plan to provide an open air sleeping room.
working that function specifically into the program made all the difference for otherwise familiar detail.
another rule he used in his plans that he made sure each room opened up to an exterior area.
yes, the climate is a great point to start around that sea where i grew up.
I have a massive L-shaped one that wraps around the house I live in. its quite nice shades the south sun yet looks out towards the view of the sea. However here's something I've notice versus other houses is that the height of the roof line before you get to the terrace is quite low...to offer a great level of shade...makes a difference in maintaing the usable view
one of my favorite (a throwback to be sure) is the villa planchart project by gio ponti, located in caracas, venezuala. multiple patios, but all kind of winding inside a block volume.
i recently saw that it only cost 75,000 pounds/$150,000US to build...
I'm always a little leary about published budgets anyway (for example, george suyama's schuchart house in seattle, probably 2/3 what it really would have cost - contractor doing his own insanely high end res)
but unless you have students or moroccan/algerian workers getting paid slave-like wages, i don't see that number as anywhere realistic...
and then if it is, the architect is supporting wages which should be illegal, and completely takes away from the beauty of the project, at least in my eyes.
multiple patio house
Hi all
It's been a while since I posted any useful topic or comment, but this time I'm asking for help.
I got my first commission as an architect to design a reasonably big and expensive house somewhere on the southern bank of the Mediterranean see. Yahou!
We have started working on the design, and we have ended up working on two strongly different schemes that we are developing together to present to the client.
One is based on the patio model, but because we have many existing trees to keep, the patio is exploded in many differents patios that create different atmospheres in the house.
I have blurry memories of projects developing this kind of basic concept, I've found some examples in the work of the smithons, or van eyck... I was trying to look for others in my books, but the closest I've found was the hotel Koolhaas designed for Morocco.
Anybody as any relevant references to feed my thoughts?
(sorry for the terrible grammatical mistakes, I don't practice enough)
Congratulations French, it sounds like a very nice commission! Did you look at the works of SANAA, for example Stadstheater Almere?
in this patio you can place a forest with river and a small town...
[imghttp://www.europaconcorsi.com/db/cache/pub/pub_14017_w500h500q75bw1_1130212886.jpg[/img]
a-f... SANAA,was also my first association, they did some of these multiple-inside-out-embracing-room-cluster-building-concepts..
ufff, again ...
Thanks a-f, I'm pretty excited by the project! But as always, it's only a start, and you know how sketchy those starts are. Anyway, I've look at the few books I have about sejima's work, which is by the way a great reference and a proof of your excellent taste, but I was looking for something a bit smaller than this project.
The scale is always more important than what I would think at first when I found a reference. For example, the project of the smithons, the house of the future, is a patio house for a couple; but it's so small that when you scale it up to a family size house, you realize how much intimacy problems are emerging from the patio model.
But I'll check this project tonight at home, since I left my SANAA book there. Too bad. O wait, I got an internet connection. Thanks again a-f.
To all the others: bring it on!
contemax, same problem here. My site is only about 10000square feet... Not big enough for a forest I'm afraid...
"a proof of your excellent taste".. thanks, I'm blushing! Yes, it's difficult to design small scale with patios - the only examples I can think of are some classic large or medium scale structures, like Herzog & deMeurons Rehab in Basel, Van Eyck's Orphanage, Piet Blom's Kasbah, or several Candilis-Josic-Woods projects.
NL Architects
Bosch Architects (not so known, but very nice project)
Mies
now where talking...
the first model picture, as well as the Bosch project, is exactly the kind of element that I need to convince my partners that this is a real potential. Thank you very much.
Mies is great of course (shit I can't name that pla I'm so lame) but I find the extreme transparency of his plans somehow not apropriate to the mediteranean culture. At the same time, the barcelona pavillon is still my favorite project, and is built in spain... So why not.
The Van Eyck orphanage is the one I was talking about earlier. The problem with the team ten era architects is to "sell" the architecture to a client. The ideas are always marvellous, the project clear as crystal, but the elevation always appear ugly to a non architect observer.
Thanks for your help a-f...
where is your site? marocco? egypt? or france italy spain
contemax
I'd like to keep it as vague as possible if you don't mind... But it's somewhere in north africa, by the sea...
Why do you ask?
my immediate thought was rokko:
obviously too big.
but then my next was a house - i think by alvaro siza - published just this year. the house worked its way down a hill and there was almost no visible house, just a cut down the hill with terraces. check out arch record this past year...
Steven, I guess you're talking about casa Tolo, a marvellous project indeed.
The clear relation between the plan and section is particularly amazing. Unfortunately, my site is just a big square, with no topographic quality, and with a view towards the sea, but only from the second floor.
Thanks for your effort yall. It's great to have everybody designing with me!
french- congrats on landing a gig. interesting idea, there must be several houses in california that achieve the landscape integration your thinking about. when I have a little more time, i'll see what i can pull up.
Also look at glen murcutt's work in austrailia....
I have a patrick blanc question for you (think you did his website). how his green wall system is assembled? if you have technical knowledge of how he builds- say so and I'll send you an email.
look for the local traditional or ancient house-layout - they are the best inspiration for a radical new interpretation or to get to a strong concept that fits the context (clima, the low tech cooling systems, habits...) and still designing a 21century-building.
oops. see you've already got this one, but... for everybody else:
casa tolo, by alvaro leite siza vieira
here
here
here
don't forget that fallingwater is several indoor/outdoor trays with different 'atmospheres' spiralling around the central core.
thanks contemax.
I have looked at the traditional model of course. The thing is they are most of the time sited in a strong urban context (they give their specific appearance to the aerial view of the medinas for instance). Most of the time they are more than one storey high. The daytime rooms are on the basement, while a serie of balconies connect together rooms and bedrooms on the floors above.
The idea is to remodel this basic framework and programmatic layout to adapt it to a suburban site. Sounds simple, but when you try to build a one to two floors patio house, things are getting a bit tougher than what I thought.
I have already outline a basic programmatic distribution that fits the site. I'm looking for a way to articulate all this at the architectural scale. Somehow, I still need to look at recent examples before I'm able to digest and do something directly inspired by really ancient models.
And I don't want to end up doing something that look to much like the old thing. People don't like it when you try to teach them what they already know better than you...
treekiller, my younger brother did this website, as well as several french architect websites (is codename is : supersatori if you're looking for a talented artist to design a website: )).
I have only a limited knowledge about the green wall. The principle is really simple: they build a framing system with big plastic panels; they cover the panels with really thick felt sheets, and between the plastic and the felt, they pass an irigation system (basically plastic tubes with tiny holes); then they plant on the felt, and let it grow with huge amounts of water dispended on the system. Voilà!
(I think he as some sort of patent unfortunately...)
fallingwater, I didn't think about this one.
Thanks steven
There is another house of Siza's which came to mind, but unfortunately also makes use of natural topography. It might be good to look at however. It has a long terrace arranged along the side of a hill and slopes down in tight switchbacks to a sort of natural rocky area that fills with water as the tide comes in, and that becomes the pool for the house. Let me see if I can find it.
isn't the casa tolo little siza (aka the son)?
wow. the images of the casa tolo have me drooling! =)
indeed holz.box, I think it is. My mistake. Or Stevens. Oh hell, who cares, it's a beautiful house anyway!
credited to alvaro leite siza vieira. so he's a junior, i guess? is that what 'leite' means? because the rest is the same as the name of the one we all know and love.
Don't know if 'leite' stands for 'junior', but he is the son of alvaro siza. A pretty talented son too...
Leite ("milk") is just a middle name. In Brazil (so i am assuming it is the same in Portugal), any variation to the name (such as a middle name) exempts you from being a Jr. (Filho ou Junior are affixes for Jr's in portuguese). Very talented jr. in deed...
So, I typed this, and realized no-one actually cares, but oh well, it's friday.
French...i like the thought of exploding patios due to trees...just make sure each of them has a beautiful vista...you get to pick which patio to read my book on...where to have breakfast...views of the mediterranean...and here i am in Detroit...enjoy!
holz.box....? du bist nicht zufaellig aus der Alpen-republik
congrats French
id highly recommend you study the house for "huespedes ilustres" in cartagena, colombia by Rogelio Salmona
to me that is the best patio house in the world
there arent many online resources but a good library should have the SOMOSUR book collection, find the Rogelio Salmona one
heres a link in spanish
http://www.lablaa.org/blaavirtual/revistas/credencial/junio1999/114casa.htm
good luck :)
conte -
nee, aus virginia - aber mein grossvater ist in koeln geboren.
im 2005, hat ich erich strolz getroffen.
holz box hoert besser als betonbox/bentobox.
look no further than SOuta de Moura who had a series of patio houses in Portugal
Barragan...
mmm...big square flat plot, views to sea from second floor level. yay. i too am drooling. something introvert, very horizontal, blank and dim on the rez-de-chausse, sometimes in sometimes out; lots of stuff like light coming the edges and corners. little dead gardens like the barcelona pavilion one with its statue; blackish wood like hiroshi nakao's... maybe you see the stairs through glass and through glass again and into wherever...or is this too tadao ando-ish? maybe with all this flatness, a not so flat promenade element , a ramp somewhere..possible where the entrance is raising the concrete hem skirt and hey presto, glass slicing through the floor platform with barely a distinction between inside and outside(sanaa) (maybe a slight texture change)...and the upper floor...yay....maybe all the brutalism on the g.f. goes up in one part and then dissipates into something light, elegant, ethereal milk white glass or too hackneyed you think? fine...how about nicely striated metal/timber-but-dont-kill the trees? and definetely a mezanine level, with nice simulating sections and internal views.
or
how about the other way up? very visually open on the ground floor, columns disappeaing mies-ian stlye into the ceiling...and the big perforated horizontal volume is atop, internal couryards affording partial views on the upper floor and perhaps connected up to one yummy open terrace looking towards the sea...and oh...your g.f. pations could be formed from the de stijl like loadbearing walls that drop from the perimeter of the upper floor...
ok ok, fine, its your project...sheesh
by the bye, g.f. is not the girlf friend but the ground floor.
by the bye, g.f. is not the girl friend but the ground floor.
gotta love barragan. Always disappoints me that there isn't a hammock and a bottle of Agrian's finest wine in the corner of those patio pictures. Go figure.
french, nice project to design. congratulations.
just to point out a detail i've seen;
it was always very inspiring for me to think of irwing gill's work when i was seeking relationship to mediterrannian climate even though we are on the other side of the globe.
his work, among many samples i've seen, related to the similar climatic conditions very well (here in so. california we have medi. weather).
looking at one of his better preserved projects in los angeles, i have seen a small (3meters x 3m) patio or interior court, specifically worked into the plan to provide an open air sleeping room.
working that function specifically into the program made all the difference for otherwise familiar detail.
another rule he used in his plans that he made sure each room opened up to an exterior area.
yes, the climate is a great point to start around that sea where i grew up.
thats nice to have two patios,
I have a massive L-shaped one that wraps around the house I live in. its quite nice shades the south sun yet looks out towards the view of the sea. However here's something I've notice versus other houses is that the height of the roof line before you get to the terrace is quite low...to offer a great level of shade...makes a difference in maintaing the usable view
Just to correct some links that Steven Ward post:
Casa Tolo - Álvaro Leite Siza
one of my favorite (a throwback to be sure) is the villa planchart project by gio ponti, located in caracas, venezuala. multiple patios, but all kind of winding inside a block volume.
beautiful building -
[img]http://gioponti.com/giopontipix/Planchart%202.jpg[img]
look for plans somewhere online or in a publication - worth the effort
whoops. can't get it to link quite right...
the leita siza project:
i recently saw that it only cost 75,000 pounds/$150,000US to build...
I'm always a little leary about published budgets anyway (for example, george suyama's schuchart house in seattle, probably 2/3 what it really would have cost - contractor doing his own insanely high end res)
but unless you have students or moroccan/algerian workers getting paid slave-like wages, i don't see that number as anywhere realistic...
and then if it is, the architect is supporting wages which should be illegal, and completely takes away from the beauty of the project, at least in my eyes.
for laru
holz.box about the budget for constructions I think is not correct. However the Casa Tolo is for sale now for around €290.000.
ahhh...stunning....CASA TOLÓ.....what beauty without handrails.
danke architechnophilia
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