This is a great site! I just discovered it and already thought I'd ask a question. Very Happy I'm sure this topic has been discussed sometime previously, but I cannot browse through 50+ pages in order to find it. Nevertheless, I am currently looking for a laptop/pc. I am an architecture graduate who will be applying for grad school next year and am interested in knowing your thoughts on which notebook is ideal for us students (particularly grad, if it matters ?). I've been considering the MacBook. In addition, should I also consider having it customized - to include programs such as photoshop, form z...CAD? Any input is greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance! Cheers...
The new intel Macs would be a great choice. Between the stability of Mac OS (not to mention ArchiCAD, Vector Works, etc.) and the ability to run Windows natively or emulated with Parallels, you can do it all. I run AutoCAD on my mac in Parallels and it works well, granted I haven't used any 3D programs in emulated mode yet, but you can run them in native windows mode and there are plenty of 3D programs for the mac too.
macs are cool if you want to sit by the window at a coffee house while surfing the GAP website for a pair of carpenter pants that you wont ever do any construction in because you are trying to understand why your ball point pen ran out of ink due to the fact that you are scribblin' on a notepad some sort of design that probably wont happen due to lack of building skills and that the real dimension of a 2x12 doug fir beam is not what you think it is.
it didn't take long for this discussion to digress. i have a mac pro running windows and haven't had any problems with AutoCAD 2007, Form Z 5.5, Adobe CS2, etc. i dropped $4k on it, but it runs circle around my old P4 3.0. i have bootcamp installed in it because i was told it performs better than the parallels software. you have to re-boot the computer to switch OS, but i have never run the computer in OSX.
jjh, Yeah bootcamp will definitely run better than parallels for processor or hardware intensive stuff (like 3D apps) but parallels really does run well for most apps and 2d stuff. I've got AutoCAD 2006 running with no issues. If I don't have to reboot its optimal, but having the option is nice regardless. But I do as much on the Mac side as possible. Oh and the wallet size argument is old and tired. I'd rather spend the money on a lexus than a ford anyway. :-P
I think you guys are just a bunch of fashionable followers. "we all own macs, look at us, we are fashionable nerds, I'm so precious". By the way, I don't understand why someone would want to get a mac for the stability and then run windows. I've got to tell you, archicad and microstation are ridiculous programs to use, they are just difficult and time consuming.
Basically, if you are an architecture student you've got a couple of basic programs to run.
2D Drawing Tools
Hand
autocad
archicad
microstation
3D modeling
sketch-up
autocad
rhinoceros
3D visualization or rendering
maya
3d studio max
All of these programs run on windows, and autocad doesn't run on mac. Take your pick.
PS. for the record, you guys are still lame for following the crowd of "fashionable designers" and using macs.
Huanmic,
are you kidding me? i would have bought a PC if i could have gotten the same performance for the price of the mac. i could give a shit what the thing looked like. i bought this computer because after extensive research the mac was the best option in my opinion. FYI, when i spec'd a similar dell computer it came to $4500 so instead of calling me a fashionable follower perhaps you can call me an educated consumer. buy a mac - you won't be disappointed. let's see if you can say that about the latest toshiba you bought that overheats as soon as you start a rendering. opps.
dells suck... i got one....inspirion 8100... crashed 4 times...... i'm getting a pc desktop.... friend is building me one...... a good workstation.....
macs are macs............. all my graphic friends use them...but for arch work, not sure if they really are worth it.................
start a thread about power tools and maybe i can help a little bit more
Instead of making snap decisions about people, perhaps you should get to know others in the discussion. I'm not following a crowd of "fashionable designers." I've been using macs for 15+ years, am a certified Apple tech, and my bachelors degree is in computer science from one of the top 20 schools in the country. I guaratee I know more about what constitues a good computer than you do. I only run windows when I have to. If I *HAVE* to run AutoCAD, I will. But what I won't do is buy a crappy Dell that ONLY runs windows. At least I'm smart enough to keep my options as versatile as possible, not to mention virus-free.
You left out Revit in your list of programs and if you had any clue you'd realize that programs like ArchiCAD are the future and make AutoCAD look like the stone age. Apparently you don't know that ArchiCAD can be used for regular CAD and can "save down" to AutoCAD files so you can interact with contractors who haven't upgraded to BIM. Just because I am starting my M.Arch with an unrelated bachelors, doesn't mean that I don't know shit, so don't assume. From a working architects perspective, the ones I know using ArchiCAD love it and the ones I know using AutoCAD are jealous of the ones who use ArchiCAD.
gotta say, I love my monarch built twin opteron 275 machine. four gigs, 256 vid card, twin 19" lcd, all for around 4k. does it all... at once. kills at maxwell and vray with processor to spare so you can work while it renders. 3ds max is now 64 bit so xp 64 (no vista) in the future? if you REALLY want mac, run a hackintosh partition with the deadmoo DVD. can't beat the perfamorance value of a desktop pc...
p.s. after a new harddrive, my inspiron 8200 is still going strong, while my colleages newer dells are dropping like flies...
ATOSNWT-
I'm typing this as we speak on a 5+ year-old Dell Inspiron 8100 laptop. I replaced the HD, added some RAM and had to replace the LCD once. I haven't run any intensive 3D on it, but it cranks through 250MB+ CS2 files still... Craziness.
I switched when the Mac Pro was $1k cheaper than a similarly configured Dell. They had the cheapest dual Xeon 5150 rig available. Period. Even with the $130 I had to pay for the OEM version of XP it was still well worth it. Of course I don't mind that it looks good and is super easy to drop extra drives, gpu's and ram into as well. And frankly I don't want to assemble my own or spend a couple days trying to configure one from Monarch, I just need a computer!
One of these days I might actually boot up in OSX.
bosch jigsaws rock..... i have the twist lock blade with the speed settings/air control/blade angle changes.....woohaaaa......
another dope item i have is my microlux/micromark mini table saw..... has a 3-4" blade..... perfect for all the little cuts.....
only thing you have to look out for the dells is the over heating problem.... i usually put a book under the rear just enough to prop it up.... i was thinking about making a fan kit to connect to laptop....
im on a mac now and very happy with it. but i also used to run a sony that was farelly reliable. the laptop would still crash from time to time though....so i dunno. fujitsu is another very good brand of laptops. but basically just make sure whatever you get, get the most ram and fastest processer that you can!
I was a PC person until about 3 years ago, when I got my first Powerbook, and I have been a Mac devotee since then. Honestly, the price of a Mac has gone down considerably (my little brother just got an Ibook for $995 USD), so there isn't such a huge gap anymore. All the years I owned PC's it seemed I was constantly putting out fires (rebooting, cleaning out viruses, crashing drives etc.) and it took away from my actual time being productive on the computer. Since I've had a Mac, I truly have gotten much more done on the computer because it just works correctly all the time. My first Powerbook crashed exactly once in 18 months. My newer Powerbook is over a year old hasn't crashed once yet. I think the one huge advantage of having a Mac is that surfing the web is many many more times secure than on a PC. Mac viruses really don't exist 'out in the wild' (to use Slashdot parlance), and it's really simple to lock down a Mac from having it invaded by fishing sites and Trojans. A PC takes a lot more work and 3rd party software to achieve the same results. When I need to run Autocad, I just Wine, which is a program that lets you run pc software on a Mac. Hopefully in the future I'll buy a Macbook that can dual boot OSX and Windows, just for Autocad. Truthfully, Windows is a buggy mess, and it's quite insecure. It's only popular because people don't know any better. A good Linux distro, like Ubuntu or SuSe will put Win to shame, and they're free. I'm currently in school, and I carry my Powerbook back and forth on the subway everyday, it has traveled thousands of miles and it still works a treat. My one complaint is that I'd like the option of an enormous hard drive, but for now I have an external at home that does the job, but it would be nice for one built in. Still it's a small complaint. I think that many creative people use Macs because they like to get work done, and don't feel like spending time fixing there computer or trying to get rid of spyware.
for all you guys who like to go by benchmarks for macs and pcs, just try to open a say, large photoshop file on a mac and then the same file on a comparable pc - then you will actually know which is faster. Ive always found that for the same amount of money, you will get a much faster pc than a Macintosh.
Dont go for Dells, there are many other great manufacturers out there, ive had the most luck with asus and acer laptops. If you are brave enough, just source the parts and make your workstation yourself!
Oh, I forgot to mention, there is a program in Beta now called crossover that will let you run windows programs in Mac OS X (intel models only) without running windows. It's Wine based. Last time I tried it didn't work with AutoCAD 2006 yet, but its still in beta and I'd imagine the demand for it would be pretty high. Thus its likely to be supported.
Also, for those interested specifically in architecture and related issues to using macs in the industry, check out http://www.architosh.com/
and one more thing - i have owned about 5 pcs in the past and manage about 5 more right now in the office - the stability of a pc is totally dependent on the parts you source. If you get cheap-ass mobos and hard drives, your machine is bound to crash incessantly. And thats exactly what manufacturers like Dell do to keep costs low - they use crappy parts.
i just cant let go of this discussion, can I?
i forgot to mention that our office also has 3 mac stations and 2 powerbooks. Believe me, they are all as stable as each other - there's no difference at all. that said, we don't have any dell's...
237am
i'm still tryin to figure out this quote...i mean wtf.
"macs are cool if you want to sit by the window at a coffee house while surfing the GAP website for a pair of carpenter pants that you wont ever do any construction in because you are trying to understand why your ball point pen ran out of ink due to the fact that you are scribblin' on a notepad some sort of design that probably wont happen due to lack of building skills and that the real dimension of a 2x12 doug fir beam is not what you think it is."
what do pcs and construction knowledge have to do with the other..
i own a mac, own carpenter pants and have probably done more
real construction than you. i appreciate your craft and some of the
work that i've seen from your site...just don't get where you came to
the above conclusions.
and i'm probably the only one on here that actually had a mac
harddrive melt down on me...owned a sony as well but bought a
powerbook when i needed to do my portfolio and don't see myself
buying another pc when it comes time to buy another laptop.
seems to me that the argument for not buying a mac is because
they are:
1. design objects/ trendy/ the thing everyone has
2. they're too expensive
isn't this what we as architects whine about all the time? that people
don't want to pay for good design..that they always want to go with
the cheapest available product? if anything i feel like we as architects
should support a company that does good design and cares about
their products look and use...as opposed to companies like microsoft
that have admittedly flawed/ vulnerable/ crap products and is still
purchased by everyone with no questions asked.
"isn't this what we as architects whine about all the time? that people
don't want to pay for good design..that they always want to go with
the cheapest available product? if anything i feel like we as architects
should support a company that does good design and cares about
their products look and use...as opposed to companies like microsoft
that have admittedly flawed/ vulnerable/ crap products and is still
purchased by everyone with no questions asked."- larslarson
This thread was a waste of my life until that comment...funny how no one can really say anything.
I'm not for or against PC / Mac – I go for the hardware and software that meets any given requirement. However, I am an advocate of open source products and I will select an open source product before ever considering a Microsoft product - not much of a Gates fan since he and his company are evil, vindictive and deceitful.
Hey guys...thank you all for the great responses! I honestly wasn't expecting this much input - and I'm glad all of you are taking the time to do this. I'm a complete novice when it comes to computers, so many of your comments have helped...thanks :) On another note, someone mentioned spending 4k on their system...in the words of Borat "Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?" ...that's a lot. I was thinking of spending tops 1500..lol.
as a computer pro once told me, the best way to see who knows very little about computers is to see how vehemently they side with PCs or Macs, with almost no proper logic.
Quite frankly, macs outdo pcs at video editing, arguably, but for everything else they can do almost the same performance, you'd just pay more than a pc.
"not much of a Gates fan since he and his company are evil, vindictive and deceitful." - Katze, im sure you know that without the evil empire of Gates, apple WOULD NOT have survived? Microsoft stepped in like a sugar daddy to help out apple.
i've used both macs and PC's at work i have to say i've had a really bad experience with OS X, it was extremely unstable and kept freezing up all the time. Maybe i was unlucky, i don't know. i have to say that i dont really understand the whole apple hype. i now work with a dell desktop at work and it does everything i need. however for some reason the management insisted on buying some apple cinema display monitors because they look cool and i have to say i hate them. ok fair enough, they do look good but you can't even adjust the height and they dont swivel, i mean WTF???? so much for the supposedly amazing mac design... there's a guy upstairs who uses the same size monitor by HP, it cost way less that an apple one and it does all the basic things you should excpect from a monitor, including an amazing color display.
I said I wasn't going to rehash, but I just couldn't let this go. This is the first time I've heard the term "sugar-daddy" used to reference a monopoly; but I guess when you look at the situation, that is what Gates is all about. What he is doing is controlling the computing industry through amassed wealth.
Keeping this issue in perspective, this is a 20-year battle between the two companies - let's just remember that back in the day, Apple made its own computers and hardware, and their innovation was software which was an icon-based operating system that introduced millions to the mouse and point / click functionality. Microsoft didn't make computers; they only built the software to run them. Initially, they utilized a complicated DOS OS. Microsoft knew that Apple's software was above and beyond the DOS based interface, so they ripped off Apple's design. The concept of making a computer easy to use is way too broad to protect, and Apple didn't argue about that. Windows, icons and menus are not ripping Apple off either because these are also extremely broad concepts.
Microsoft was sued because they stole Apple's design, implementation and the "look and feel" interface. They stole the way things are manipulated on the computer as well as almost everything behind the GUI. If it wasn't for Gates ripping off Apple's innovation, Microsoft may not be where they are at today.
Apple wouldn't have survived if it weren't for Microsoft? Please. In fact most of Apples problems were caused by Microsoft. The real credit belongs to Apple (well, them and Xerox (which is another story in itself)) and the tables should really be turned. Apple just made a few bad business decisions and allowed their work to be compromised. The bottom line is that most have forgotten how much of the original design Microsoft took from Apple, and the $150M was not a bailout as much as it was a concession on the part of MS that they violated Apple's intellectual property.
uros...whatever you choose, just make sure you don't install any bullshit softwares that you will hardly use...avoid cluttering up the system...keep it simple and pristine.
If you can avoid connecting your work computer to the internet, then do that...this will eliminate, of course, viruses and all the internet trash going in to your computer...
take care of it...run defragment (or macs version of that) and such every two weeks..treat it like a hot rod...
if your computer crashes then maybe you're doing too much with it....it's fun to drive a jeep but you wouldn't want to do 90 mph on a mountain pass...
I dislike OS X, too. I used a dual G5 and it kept crashing in PS. How can anyone wait 10-15 minutes to startup a computer?? I assume most was due to my lack of experience with Macs (used 'em, but not for real editing).
I like Macs, just not the OS. If they came with XP/Vista (didn't have to pay more) and had decent warranties, I'd pay a little more for them. But as it is, they cost so much more (with the purchase of XP) and their warranty is just not acceptable for business.
I am a sucker for good looks and solid build quality. You give me a Mac that comes with Windows and a good warranty (waiting 4 days is not what I call "acceptable") and I'll never look back.
If you anything about computers, or if you know someone who does, build your own. May I suggest one with a Pentium Core Duo 2 and a Nvidia Quadro-series video card. The quadro cards are expensive, but you might be able to get one cheap on ebay like I did. It's an excellent set-up for rendering.
i agree with you on apples customer care...their warranties and
help are awful... if you don't get applecare you become a second
class citizen to apple...and all of their phone based help goes
through a single telephone number..so every time you have a
question you have to wait at least 15 minutes on hold.
i know this because i had to call them about 15 times to change
the address on the repair box that was being sent to me...supposedly
they NEVER got it right and i never got the box...this after they
scratched my laptop screen repairing it. the scratches aren't so
big so i just gave up, which is probably what they wanted in the first
place.
thankfully my insurance company paid for a new equivalent laptop
instead of what i actually did which was replace the harddrive.
cautionary tail as well to uros...mac repair is based on a tier based
payment system. so lets say your hardrive fails...it's 1k. your
hard drive failed, you dented the case of your laptop...hey..it's
still 1k...there's no difference in price.
whatever you get i'd make sure you have homeowner's insurance
and specifically get insurance that covers your computer...i know
from personal experience that it is totally worth it.
and i'm still a mac guy. although i'm equally adept at pcs.
all that to say that if you're a student and on a limited budget
that pcs are probably the way to go since as has been stated
many times here you get more bang for your buck with pcs.
however if you have the hookup to friends with software for
one system or another i think that should be calculated into
the potential cost
Best computers for arch. students
Hi everyone!
This is a great site! I just discovered it and already thought I'd ask a question. Very Happy I'm sure this topic has been discussed sometime previously, but I cannot browse through 50+ pages in order to find it. Nevertheless, I am currently looking for a laptop/pc. I am an architecture graduate who will be applying for grad school next year and am interested in knowing your thoughts on which notebook is ideal for us students (particularly grad, if it matters ?). I've been considering the MacBook. In addition, should I also consider having it customized - to include programs such as photoshop, form z...CAD? Any input is greatly appreciated! Thank you in advance! Cheers...
Macs are nice, just be careful since they don't run autocad....unless you do that new thing where macs run windows.
The new intel Macs would be a great choice. Between the stability of Mac OS (not to mention ArchiCAD, Vector Works, etc.) and the ability to run Windows natively or emulated with Parallels, you can do it all. I run AutoCAD on my mac in Parallels and it works well, granted I haven't used any 3D programs in emulated mode yet, but you can run them in native windows mode and there are plenty of 3D programs for the mac too.
it all depends on the size of your wallet...
my waller is huge, but it just makes the amount of money i have within it look tiny.
wallet, doh.
macs are cool if you want to sit by the window at a coffee house while surfing the GAP website for a pair of carpenter pants that you wont ever do any construction in because you are trying to understand why your ball point pen ran out of ink due to the fact that you are scribblin' on a notepad some sort of design that probably wont happen due to lack of building skills and that the real dimension of a 2x12 doug fir beam is not what you think it is.
2:37am
it didn't take long for this discussion to digress. i have a mac pro running windows and haven't had any problems with AutoCAD 2007, Form Z 5.5, Adobe CS2, etc. i dropped $4k on it, but it runs circle around my old P4 3.0. i have bootcamp installed in it because i was told it performs better than the parallels software. you have to re-boot the computer to switch OS, but i have never run the computer in OSX.
how come you all of the sudden end your posts with
2:37 am, becasue that's your name?
because i can
2:37am
it's stuck in your head now :)
that's true, it is! :)
jjh, Yeah bootcamp will definitely run better than parallels for processor or hardware intensive stuff (like 3D apps) but parallels really does run well for most apps and 2d stuff. I've got AutoCAD 2006 running with no issues. If I don't have to reboot its optimal, but having the option is nice regardless. But I do as much on the Mac side as possible. Oh and the wallet size argument is old and tired. I'd rather spend the money on a lexus than a ford anyway. :-P
I think you guys are just a bunch of fashionable followers. "we all own macs, look at us, we are fashionable nerds, I'm so precious". By the way, I don't understand why someone would want to get a mac for the stability and then run windows. I've got to tell you, archicad and microstation are ridiculous programs to use, they are just difficult and time consuming.
Basically, if you are an architecture student you've got a couple of basic programs to run.
2D Drawing Tools
Hand
autocad
archicad
microstation
3D modeling
sketch-up
autocad
rhinoceros
3D visualization or rendering
maya
3d studio max
All of these programs run on windows, and autocad doesn't run on mac. Take your pick.
PS. for the record, you guys are still lame for following the crowd of "fashionable designers" and using macs.
2.37 pm
Huanmic,
are you kidding me? i would have bought a PC if i could have gotten the same performance for the price of the mac. i could give a shit what the thing looked like. i bought this computer because after extensive research the mac was the best option in my opinion. FYI, when i spec'd a similar dell computer it came to $4500 so instead of calling me a fashionable follower perhaps you can call me an educated consumer. buy a mac - you won't be disappointed. let's see if you can say that about the latest toshiba you bought that overheats as soon as you start a rendering. opps.
good grief.
dells suck... i got one....inspirion 8100... crashed 4 times...... i'm getting a pc desktop.... friend is building me one...... a good workstation.....
macs are macs............. all my graphic friends use them...but for arch work, not sure if they really are worth it.................
start a thread about power tools and maybe i can help a little bit more
2:37am
237am.com
Huanmic,
Instead of making snap decisions about people, perhaps you should get to know others in the discussion. I'm not following a crowd of "fashionable designers." I've been using macs for 15+ years, am a certified Apple tech, and my bachelors degree is in computer science from one of the top 20 schools in the country. I guaratee I know more about what constitues a good computer than you do. I only run windows when I have to. If I *HAVE* to run AutoCAD, I will. But what I won't do is buy a crappy Dell that ONLY runs windows. At least I'm smart enough to keep my options as versatile as possible, not to mention virus-free.
You left out Revit in your list of programs and if you had any clue you'd realize that programs like ArchiCAD are the future and make AutoCAD look like the stone age. Apparently you don't know that ArchiCAD can be used for regular CAD and can "save down" to AutoCAD files so you can interact with contractors who haven't upgraded to BIM. Just because I am starting my M.Arch with an unrelated bachelors, doesn't mean that I don't know shit, so don't assume. From a working architects perspective, the ones I know using ArchiCAD love it and the ones I know using AutoCAD are jealous of the ones who use ArchiCAD.
gotta say, I love my monarch built twin opteron 275 machine. four gigs, 256 vid card, twin 19" lcd, all for around 4k. does it all... at once. kills at maxwell and vray with processor to spare so you can work while it renders. 3ds max is now 64 bit so xp 64 (no vista) in the future? if you REALLY want mac, run a hackintosh partition with the deadmoo DVD. can't beat the perfamorance value of a desktop pc...
p.s. after a new harddrive, my inspiron 8200 is still going strong, while my colleages newer dells are dropping like flies...
ATOSNWT-
I'm typing this as we speak on a 5+ year-old Dell Inspiron 8100 laptop. I replaced the HD, added some RAM and had to replace the LCD once. I haven't run any intensive 3D on it, but it cranks through 250MB+ CS2 files still... Craziness.
2:37am- Bosch jigsaws are the best
I switched when the Mac Pro was $1k cheaper than a similarly configured Dell. They had the cheapest dual Xeon 5150 rig available. Period. Even with the $130 I had to pay for the OEM version of XP it was still well worth it. Of course I don't mind that it looks good and is super easy to drop extra drives, gpu's and ram into as well. And frankly I don't want to assemble my own or spend a couple days trying to configure one from Monarch, I just need a computer!
One of these days I might actually boot up in OSX.
And gimme a Powermatic cabinet saw for Christmas!
"PS. for the record, you guys are still lame for following the crowd of fashionable designers" and using macs."
we'll talk when maya goes UB.
bosch jigsaws rock..... i have the twist lock blade with the speed settings/air control/blade angle changes.....woohaaaa......
another dope item i have is my microlux/micromark mini table saw..... has a 3-4" blade..... perfect for all the little cuts.....
only thing you have to look out for the dells is the over heating problem.... i usually put a book under the rear just enough to prop it up.... i was thinking about making a fan kit to connect to laptop....
2:37am
save the money.
http://usa.asus.com/products2.aspx?l1=5&l2=62
im on a mac now and very happy with it. but i also used to run a sony that was farelly reliable. the laptop would still crash from time to time though....so i dunno. fujitsu is another very good brand of laptops. but basically just make sure whatever you get, get the most ram and fastest processer that you can!
I was a PC person until about 3 years ago, when I got my first Powerbook, and I have been a Mac devotee since then. Honestly, the price of a Mac has gone down considerably (my little brother just got an Ibook for $995 USD), so there isn't such a huge gap anymore. All the years I owned PC's it seemed I was constantly putting out fires (rebooting, cleaning out viruses, crashing drives etc.) and it took away from my actual time being productive on the computer. Since I've had a Mac, I truly have gotten much more done on the computer because it just works correctly all the time. My first Powerbook crashed exactly once in 18 months. My newer Powerbook is over a year old hasn't crashed once yet. I think the one huge advantage of having a Mac is that surfing the web is many many more times secure than on a PC. Mac viruses really don't exist 'out in the wild' (to use Slashdot parlance), and it's really simple to lock down a Mac from having it invaded by fishing sites and Trojans. A PC takes a lot more work and 3rd party software to achieve the same results. When I need to run Autocad, I just Wine, which is a program that lets you run pc software on a Mac. Hopefully in the future I'll buy a Macbook that can dual boot OSX and Windows, just for Autocad. Truthfully, Windows is a buggy mess, and it's quite insecure. It's only popular because people don't know any better. A good Linux distro, like Ubuntu or SuSe will put Win to shame, and they're free. I'm currently in school, and I carry my Powerbook back and forth on the subway everyday, it has traveled thousands of miles and it still works a treat. My one complaint is that I'd like the option of an enormous hard drive, but for now I have an external at home that does the job, but it would be nice for one built in. Still it's a small complaint. I think that many creative people use Macs because they like to get work done, and don't feel like spending time fixing there computer or trying to get rid of spyware.
devicox probabbl has the best suggestion here.
for all you guys who like to go by benchmarks for macs and pcs, just try to open a say, large photoshop file on a mac and then the same file on a comparable pc - then you will actually know which is faster. Ive always found that for the same amount of money, you will get a much faster pc than a Macintosh.
Dont go for Dells, there are many other great manufacturers out there, ive had the most luck with asus and acer laptops. If you are brave enough, just source the parts and make your workstation yourself!
Oh, I forgot to mention, there is a program in Beta now called crossover that will let you run windows programs in Mac OS X (intel models only) without running windows. It's Wine based. Last time I tried it didn't work with AutoCAD 2006 yet, but its still in beta and I'd imagine the demand for it would be pretty high. Thus its likely to be supported.
Also, for those interested specifically in architecture and related issues to using macs in the industry, check out http://www.architosh.com/
and one more thing - i have owned about 5 pcs in the past and manage about 5 more right now in the office - the stability of a pc is totally dependent on the parts you source. If you get cheap-ass mobos and hard drives, your machine is bound to crash incessantly. And thats exactly what manufacturers like Dell do to keep costs low - they use crappy parts.
i just cant let go of this discussion, can I?
i forgot to mention that our office also has 3 mac stations and 2 powerbooks. Believe me, they are all as stable as each other - there's no difference at all. that said, we don't have any dell's...
237am
i'm still tryin to figure out this quote...i mean wtf.
"macs are cool if you want to sit by the window at a coffee house while surfing the GAP website for a pair of carpenter pants that you wont ever do any construction in because you are trying to understand why your ball point pen ran out of ink due to the fact that you are scribblin' on a notepad some sort of design that probably wont happen due to lack of building skills and that the real dimension of a 2x12 doug fir beam is not what you think it is."
what do pcs and construction knowledge have to do with the other..
i own a mac, own carpenter pants and have probably done more
real construction than you. i appreciate your craft and some of the
work that i've seen from your site...just don't get where you came to
the above conclusions.
and i'm probably the only one on here that actually had a mac
harddrive melt down on me...owned a sony as well but bought a
powerbook when i needed to do my portfolio and don't see myself
buying another pc when it comes time to buy another laptop.
seems to me that the argument for not buying a mac is because
they are:
1. design objects/ trendy/ the thing everyone has
2. they're too expensive
isn't this what we as architects whine about all the time? that people
don't want to pay for good design..that they always want to go with
the cheapest available product? if anything i feel like we as architects
should support a company that does good design and cares about
their products look and use...as opposed to companies like microsoft
that have admittedly flawed/ vulnerable/ crap products and is still
purchased by everyone with no questions asked.
To each his own.
If you feel confident with a mac and can afford it, why not? It looks great, runs smoothly, etc.
If you decide that you need more firepower, a lower cost or just like to have control over whats inside, get a pc notebook.
I don't think archinect needs another mac vs. pc thread.
I personally swear by Asus. But that's just me.
it's just a run on sentence and what i would typically see at my "office/coffee house"
just as long as we all are happy....... we can read bazooka joe comics all day
2:37am
Devicox, have you ever used any of Asus' desktop machines?
the Asus-component desktop machines are solid.
my office only trusts either BOXX or ASUS-component workstations.
I've worked on both, and they are superb. Of course, BOXX is a first option when there are funds...
("asus workstation" refers to case and motherboard)
I think huanmic is a bitch.
does boxx or asus offer desktops?..... i'm in the market for a desktop.....
2:37am
"isn't this what we as architects whine about all the time? that people
don't want to pay for good design..that they always want to go with
the cheapest available product? if anything i feel like we as architects
should support a company that does good design and cares about
their products look and use...as opposed to companies like microsoft
that have admittedly flawed/ vulnerable/ crap products and is still
purchased by everyone with no questions asked."- larslarson
This thread was a waste of my life until that comment...funny how no one can really say anything.
Your PC is a faux tuscan villa.
Ps. uros
get a mac.
I'm not for or against PC / Mac – I go for the hardware and software that meets any given requirement. However, I am an advocate of open source products and I will select an open source product before ever considering a Microsoft product - not much of a Gates fan since he and his company are evil, vindictive and deceitful.
Hey guys...thank you all for the great responses! I honestly wasn't expecting this much input - and I'm glad all of you are taking the time to do this. I'm a complete novice when it comes to computers, so many of your comments have helped...thanks :) On another note, someone mentioned spending 4k on their system...in the words of Borat "Whaaaaaaaaaaaat?" ...that's a lot. I was thinking of spending tops 1500..lol.
as a computer pro once told me, the best way to see who knows very little about computers is to see how vehemently they side with PCs or Macs, with almost no proper logic.
Quite frankly, macs outdo pcs at video editing, arguably, but for everything else they can do almost the same performance, you'd just pay more than a pc.
"not much of a Gates fan since he and his company are evil, vindictive and deceitful." - Katze, im sure you know that without the evil empire of Gates, apple WOULD NOT have survived? Microsoft stepped in like a sugar daddy to help out apple.
uros, for ur budget, id go for a pc, again Acer or Asus.
i've used both macs and PC's at work i have to say i've had a really bad experience with OS X, it was extremely unstable and kept freezing up all the time. Maybe i was unlucky, i don't know. i have to say that i dont really understand the whole apple hype. i now work with a dell desktop at work and it does everything i need. however for some reason the management insisted on buying some apple cinema display monitors because they look cool and i have to say i hate them. ok fair enough, they do look good but you can't even adjust the height and they dont swivel, i mean WTF???? so much for the supposedly amazing mac design... there's a guy upstairs who uses the same size monitor by HP, it cost way less that an apple one and it does all the basic things you should excpect from a monitor, including an amazing color display.
Sameolddoctor – I could write a book about Gates vs. Jobs, and I don't want to go there.
I said I wasn't going to rehash, but I just couldn't let this go. This is the first time I've heard the term "sugar-daddy" used to reference a monopoly; but I guess when you look at the situation, that is what Gates is all about. What he is doing is controlling the computing industry through amassed wealth.
Keeping this issue in perspective, this is a 20-year battle between the two companies - let's just remember that back in the day, Apple made its own computers and hardware, and their innovation was software which was an icon-based operating system that introduced millions to the mouse and point / click functionality. Microsoft didn't make computers; they only built the software to run them. Initially, they utilized a complicated DOS OS. Microsoft knew that Apple's software was above and beyond the DOS based interface, so they ripped off Apple's design. The concept of making a computer easy to use is way too broad to protect, and Apple didn't argue about that. Windows, icons and menus are not ripping Apple off either because these are also extremely broad concepts.
Microsoft was sued because they stole Apple's design, implementation and the "look and feel" interface. They stole the way things are manipulated on the computer as well as almost everything behind the GUI. If it wasn't for Gates ripping off Apple's innovation, Microsoft may not be where they are at today.
Apple wouldn't have survived if it weren't for Microsoft? Please. In fact most of Apples problems were caused by Microsoft. The real credit belongs to Apple (well, them and Xerox (which is another story in itself)) and the tables should really be turned. Apple just made a few bad business decisions and allowed their work to be compromised. The bottom line is that most have forgotten how much of the original design Microsoft took from Apple, and the $150M was not a bailout as much as it was a concession on the part of MS that they violated Apple's intellectual property.
uros...whatever you choose, just make sure you don't install any bullshit softwares that you will hardly use...avoid cluttering up the system...keep it simple and pristine.
If you can avoid connecting your work computer to the internet, then do that...this will eliminate, of course, viruses and all the internet trash going in to your computer...
take care of it...run defragment (or macs version of that) and such every two weeks..treat it like a hot rod...
if your computer crashes then maybe you're doing too much with it....it's fun to drive a jeep but you wouldn't want to do 90 mph on a mountain pass...
i officially hate analogies...
I dislike OS X, too. I used a dual G5 and it kept crashing in PS. How can anyone wait 10-15 minutes to startup a computer?? I assume most was due to my lack of experience with Macs (used 'em, but not for real editing).
I like Macs, just not the OS. If they came with XP/Vista (didn't have to pay more) and had decent warranties, I'd pay a little more for them. But as it is, they cost so much more (with the purchase of XP) and their warranty is just not acceptable for business.
I am a sucker for good looks and solid build quality. You give me a Mac that comes with Windows and a good warranty (waiting 4 days is not what I call "acceptable") and I'll never look back.
If you anything about computers, or if you know someone who does, build your own. May I suggest one with a Pentium Core Duo 2 and a Nvidia Quadro-series video card. The quadro cards are expensive, but you might be able to get one cheap on ebay like I did. It's an excellent set-up for rendering.
trace
i agree with you on apples customer care...their warranties and
help are awful... if you don't get applecare you become a second
class citizen to apple...and all of their phone based help goes
through a single telephone number..so every time you have a
question you have to wait at least 15 minutes on hold.
i know this because i had to call them about 15 times to change
the address on the repair box that was being sent to me...supposedly
they NEVER got it right and i never got the box...this after they
scratched my laptop screen repairing it. the scratches aren't so
big so i just gave up, which is probably what they wanted in the first
place.
thankfully my insurance company paid for a new equivalent laptop
instead of what i actually did which was replace the harddrive.
cautionary tail as well to uros...mac repair is based on a tier based
payment system. so lets say your hardrive fails...it's 1k. your
hard drive failed, you dented the case of your laptop...hey..it's
still 1k...there's no difference in price.
whatever you get i'd make sure you have homeowner's insurance
and specifically get insurance that covers your computer...i know
from personal experience that it is totally worth it.
and i'm still a mac guy. although i'm equally adept at pcs.
all that to say that if you're a student and on a limited budget
that pcs are probably the way to go since as has been stated
many times here you get more bang for your buck with pcs.
however if you have the hookup to friends with software for
one system or another i think that should be calculated into
the potential cost
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