So, am I the only one that doesnt get Borat? Yes, Borat does show the chauvinism, racism, and anti-semitic leanings of our own culture, but may he also be fostering it? What is the cultural effect of singing along to 'throw the jew down the well'? I do not find him funny either, for everytime he does some brilliant piece of ironic comedy, there are 20 nice, everyday people who are used for cheap laughs.
And the other side of this thing, is that if you question the funnyness of Cohen, you are accused of being uptight and not getting it (which is what happens in the movie also, as with the feminists and in the dinner party).
Am I alone thinking that Cohen is irresponsible for producing stuff like this?
he is jewish. he is pushing buttons so folks reveal their inner selves. the whole thing is a skit merely made to allow those around him to accept him for what they assume he is, then he gets them to reveal their inner leanings...like getting excited about singing, "throw the jew down the well". He is making a point that racism does exist, just below the radar...he creates a new radar to show it to the masses.
quite brilliant I think.
He could have just done an andy kaufman yakov smirnof, "look, I am a foreigner" type bit...but he uses that to actually achieve a lot more.
He also went to theater school at either Cambridge or Oxford, can't remember which one.
I should clarify, I do get Borat, what I dont get is Borat mania. Even critics and journalists act as if they are too cool to not actually critique this stuff.
Borat is only really funny because you know that Cohen is (or was) and orthodox jew, that allows you to suspend all thought into the real issues. After the success I feel like we are going to have a lot more of this type of stuff.
It may be interesting to compare Borat to Cappelle. In the case of Chappelle, it is more straight forward because you know chappelle is chappelle and he is smart about showing us racism, but also giving alternatives and finally giving a space for young black people themselves to show how stupid stereotypes are, and how the culture can move on from there. Borat (with his insistance of staying in character 24/7) doesnt allow for that next step. I sometimes wonder who the joke is on, why doesn't Cohen allow for catharsis? In my opinion is because Borat is a one-line joke.
It reminds me of Nikki Lee traveling around the U.S. adopting silly stereotypes, photographing herself without critique, and then calling it art.
I saw the movie over the weekend, and there are a bunch of words that I can use to describe it: outrageous, hilarious, embarrassing, revolting, etc. I found parts of it funny and parts of it very, very sad. I think that in certain scenes, especially the climax, he is very irresponsible, in that people who aren't in on his joke could be very damaged by what he does.
In a sense he's kind of like Jackass meets the Colbert Report, which makes people want to watch, but he really illuminates a lot that is wrong with the world. So I guess I would say that he serves a purpose in that he makes people face prejudices that maybe they wouldn't have to deal with otherwise.
We love spectacle, Borat does a fantastic job of weaving spectacle out of unsuspecting bystanders. Society craves spectacle, at least we’re not hanging people in public anymore…. oh yeah… we are. NICE! HIGH FIVE!!!
We love spectacle, Borat does a fantastic job of weaving spectacle out of unsuspecting bystanders. Society craves spectacle, at least we’re not hanging people in public anymore…. oh yeah… we are. NICE! HIGH FIVE!!!
cohen used to be funny when he was unknown & you could intrepet him as provocative. but with a movie he now just another part of our sad, celebrated pantheon of dip-shittedness.
what's sinbad up these days? is he cool again yet?
I've heard the movie is hilarious. Personally, I can't stand humor that uses unsuspecting participants, although I can think of many exceptions to that opinion, notably when Brad Pitt was "kidnapped" by the Jackass crew in front of a movie theater.
I've also wondered sometimes if Borat (like Cohen's other characters) is mean to unsuspecting people. There's an episode where Bruno has some college wrestlers on Spring Break in Florida show him how to wrestle, then yell "PARTY!!!" over and over, and finally moon the camera; only after this does he "reveal" that they're on "Austrian Gay TV", much to one of the wrestler's anger. On one level it is manipulative and harmful, but then again, these guys roll around on matresses with other men in tights, and are exposing themselves on TV. I'm not saying that wrestling isn't a legitmate sport or that people can't act like goofs on vacation, but I think that if these guys were comfortable with the erotic component of wrestling (while honestly acknowledging that their own interest is athletic) and the fact that their butts may not ONLY be viewed by women and straight men, they could have laughed the encounter off with their dignity intact. It just happened to be their turn to be had.
Some of Cohen's other victims do laugh him off, or good-naturedly try to correct him, or sometimes see through the joke and play along. These people don't take themselves or Borat so seriously, and it is them who emerge unscathed. Borat was apparently inspired by a Russian doctor Cohen met whom he thought was just hilarious - and I imagine that this doctor also said some offensive things that Cohen chose to laugh at rather than get upset over. Laughing at something is one of the best ways to diminish it, as well as to relieve all the unnecessary tensions that build up in the world. I think the more "uptight" of Cohen's victims appear absurd not because they're tricked, but because of their own unadmitted hypocrisy, ignorance, or pretentiousness. It is tragic, but it's not as though we don't have a choice in how we approach life.
that kinda happens in the movie... not Brad Pitt though. The conference room/bedroom thing was a little over the top.... I bet it took 100 takes to get the bedroom scene just right.
excellent take thehoule. i have yet to see the movie, but i've been looking forward to it since seeing a preview in February (it was funnier than the movie i was there to see).
in terms of being mean to unsuspecting people, this sort of thing has been done for years...all the way back to the "Candid Camera" days. Cohen's Borat is merely a more twisted version of Punk'd minus the annoying celebrities and minus the tension release of finally letting them in on the joke. i personally love the fact that Cohen never allows that tension release.
also, let's remember that these nice, unsuspecting people couldn't have been all too terribly pissed about it when all was said and done...they signed the release forms to be used in the movie.
actually, the one thing that i really liked about punk'd was that it picked on celebrities rather than average people on the street.
for example, i don't remember the actor's name, but he was 16 years old and already owned a $250k vintage ferrari. after dropping it off at the valet the punk'd crew tricked him into thinking it was stolen and this kid about shit his pants...i really enjoyed watching that. i also liked the episode where they invented some bogus federal agency and then confiscated all of justin timberlake's stuff for failure to pay taxes. poor kid looked like he was going to cry.
also, the nice thing about jackass was that they pretty much only inflicted the pain on themselves. some times bystanders were involved but they usually only played to part of shocked witness, not duped victim.
true puddles...the celebrity element made the dis that much funnier (or sadistically satisfying).
it's a shame borat is so well known now...it would've been way cooler to make a jackass like <insert annoying celebrity here> reveal the true nature of their stupidity than making a guy like kissinger look merely uncomfortable.
Out of his three characters, Borat is by far the strongest. I think the Bruno movie will bomb from too much overexposure. Also, he made an Ali G movie a couple years ago "In Da House" - it was awful.
The key to Borat's success is that he uses his "foreign-ness" to disarm unsuspecting victims. You'll notice that he's less successful in big cities like NYC and LA. He gets nowhere with the people in NY on the subway, on the sidewalk, and even the hotel front desk clerk. They are used to having odd people around and have no problems avoiding him or telling him to f-off.
The deep south and bible belt are a target-rich environment for Borat. People in those parts of the country are far more willing to try to impart and share their 'values' on an impressionable visitor...
puddles, actually the car on punk'd was one of the original porshe speedsters of which only 200 were made (james dean owned one.) the only reason i nitpick is because i saw it on the west side in a parking lot and almost caused an accident rubbernecking-its a beautiful car.... but i was disapointed when i saw that shit malcom in the middle walking away from it. my coworkers at the time explained to me when i got back to the office that it was recently on an episode of punk'd.
i think bruno is pretty amazing though, just because he fits into the scene - the fashion designers are so rediculous they just think he's one of them.
he's hillarious. the worst kind of biggotry is not the kind that is in your face ala KKK or skinheads, the worst and most scary racist are your next door neighbors, your everyday nobodies, that are seemingly nice to your face yet have an agenda that completely undermines their own credilbility as humans. there is a reason why this movie is a success, why we all laugh, because we are laughing at our own hypocrisy.
my wife and i went to see pearl jam in kansas city kansas - some outdoor amphitheater gig about 8 or 9 years ago, and we stayed at a bed and breakfast - fearful of creepy crawlys in our beds - so while the grandmotherly owner was touring us through the place, she noted to use that a "mixed" couple was staying there as well, and did we have a problem with that? well of course my wife and i said no and she went on to suggest that if we did they would be more than obliged to make changes, and assured us that they would not be a threat to us. my tongue had my teeth poking in it i was so pissed. she then notes that she and her friends call them "oreo cookies"....! WHAT THE FUCK?! what could my wife and do? we did not have a lot of $$$ then, we made reservations, paid for this joint, could not get a refund, could not throw money down the drain and stay elsewhere...we tried to even let the other couple know what was being said - oh did i mention this couple stayed there all the time!...so we decided money mattered rather than the principle, and bad mouthed that joint to everyone we knew. i regret not telling that woman what i really thought, and today given my financial situ i would have no problem doing it. i hated myself for not doing her different, i owed it to that couple to reem her ass.
let borat peel back that hard shell of niceness/denial to show the true nature of americans and their deep seeded, fleshy, gooey - BULLSHIT!
oh cummon, not only is it completely harmless, its also getting old. anywho, borat doing u.s. was just not funny as him doing the u.k. he, as ali g., really needs the embarassed reserve of an elderly englishman next to him to bring out the best in him. and borat in khazakhastan is sweet..and the anthem...and the mules.
and his 'bruno' was good too. him getting the neo-nazis to pose for a gay show. heh.
In the highly anticipated mockumentary Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan, second-world superstar Borat Sagdiyev (aka Sacha Baron Cohen of Ali G. fame) travels the US in search of love, understanding, and Pamela Anderson's welcoming bosom. But Borat's shtick –exquisitely inept English, caterpillar 'stache, sleazy non sequiturs – reminds us of another heavily accented, hirsute symbol of the sex: late-'90s Internet celebrity Mahir Cagri, whose Web site, www.ikissyou.org,
implored women of the world to visit his native Turkey, "stay my home," and, yes, kiss him.
Turns out, we're not the only ones who noticed the similarities: "All people know Sacha Baron Cohen imitate only me," Cagri recently fumed via email. "He is stealing my character and giving bad message to USA people." Cagri, who's been struggling to start a career in show business ever since his boom-era glory days, says he intends to sue Baron Cohen. "He never contacted me or got my permission," he writes. "If possible you can help me too for stop this or find good lawyer?" Sorry, we can't do that, but we can give Cagri the third degree – and let Wired readers be the judge.
WIRED: In the mock-doc, Borat is a globe-trotting journalist. Are you also a man of letters?
CAGRI: I do journalism as a freelancer sometimes. I go travel sometimes and take pictures-video-write, meet people for documentary.
Borat travels the US, examining American culture. Any memories from your visit in 1999?
I can't forget party about me in San Francisco. Many people kissed me, took my signature, and took picture. America mix culture and big country, but people don't think about other people. They love their own life only and fun-sex-game-drink.
Borat plays the guitar and sings Kazakh folk tunes. Are you also musically inclined?
I can play many instruments, but best I play accordion-flute-mandolin-violin-drum-and-saz (Turkish instrument). I like Cher and Shakira. Their voice and songs nice I like it.
Borat's signature is his mustache. Didn't you rock it first?
I start first grow mustache, 10 or 15 year ago. Sometimes, I been no mustache. I'm male and mustache shows a male mature.
Borat has his movie. Any plans for the Mahir Cagri story?
I'm trying to find USA publisher, and I hope I can receive good offer from Hollywood and play my own life and share with my fans, Julia Roberts, Spielberg, David Bowie, or others, this movie.
First off, the movie was just "eh." Occassional giggles, although the hotel room fight was simultaneously one of the most funny and revolting things I'd ever seen in my life. The was almost TOO MUCH plot.
I agree with betadine, good for SBC that he exposes the prejudice of this country. Those kids in the RV, going on about how our country would be better if slavery was still legal? Or that old cowboy at the rodeo talking about killing homosexuals? Are you f-ing kidding me? These people are not "innocent bystanders" and deserve everything they get.
i thought it displayed disgusting f'ed up americans quite well. ^^ yeah the hotel scene was absurd.. like most of the movie.
apparently the frat boys in the rv scene are trying to sue for making them look like the idiots they are..
and here i was thinking all those scenes were staged/rehearsed/scripted with actors/preped interviewees instead of real people. Now im even more scared of my countrymen... Apparently those kids in the RV are filing suit...
Another issue no one is talking about is the way that Borat insults central europeans in general and maybe, more subtly muslims(?) Both Borat and Ali G are pseudo-muslims and his treatment of both are ruthless. Among the worst of the worst cases are the shots in the village, which apparently he is exploiting for financial gain:
I went to see it this week-end, not sure why, seeing as how I could never watch his show (agree with Liberty Bell and not being able to stand humor that makes fun of people through deception) - anyways, I walked out after 3 minutes.
I think it's the only movie I've ever walked out of. Not sure what the point is or why people think it's that funny - as far as I can tell the only people he's making fun of are those who are watching it and laughing - a sort of meta-critique and satire to the extreme, but funny?
It also made me extremely nervous to hear people laughiing, and in between what they were talking about. Maybe I'm underestimating my fellow movie goers, but I can't believe that they all fully got the 'joke'.
We went and saw The Departed instead, which was fantastic (even Leonardo!) - highly recommended...
^^ i must be the only person who thinks that the departed is one
of the worst movies i've seen. there is very little that is plausible
within the film...and do cops really fight each other at the drop of
a hat? that and actors have no idea that not everyone in boston
has an accent..or that a boston accent involves more than dropping
an 'r' here and there. leonardo was pretty good. the only thing
that made the movie worth it was the ending which i found to be
rather poetic. marky mark is completely wasted in this film...so
many good actors, so little plot, so choppy with a soundtrack that
dominates the conversations it's supposed to support.
as far as borat...i can't usually watch his show...i find that kind of
humor to be cringe humor...seems as though sbc is taking advantage
of people who are attempting to be helpful and friendly...regardless
of how misguided they may be.
I think the muslim world could use a sense of humor frankly. They need to learn to poke fun at themselves. Borat may be an extreme exagerration of central asian/western asian/muslim culture but the fact that it speaks any truth at all (like anti-semetism, homophobia, and mysoginy) about that culture is frankly horrifying. I went to go see this movie with a close muslim, female friend and the fact that she told me that it was relatively indiciative of the feelings in her part of the world disturbed me. Those stereotypes are only reinforced by the attitude their leaders give off. When the argentine goverment got a letter from the Iranian government claiming that the bombing of the Jewish community center was not attributiable to Iranian sponsored Hezbollah as the argentines had claimed, but was instead a "Zionist plot", that ought to tell you something.
Another scary point to make is that, arguably, the "Islamo-facist" ideals embodied by Borat find resonace with many of the Americans who laugh with him rather than at him. I find it ironic that the christian right facists and the islamic facists share similar political ideals, if not inevitable as Islam and Christianity share so many similarities and the two sides have been warring with each other throughout history. I've never been a big fan of SBC, except I think this movie is important to the contemporary world as well as being very funny. Love him or hate him, I think he has a point to make about the modern world and as long as that point is heard properly by even the smallest segment of the people who see this film, we may all be better off for it.
the departed was much better when it was filmed in hong kong last year and called 'infernal affairs'. the plot was cleaner, the music better the tension was great.
"I think the muslim world could use a sense of humor frankly."
i am of a muslim background and i found borat funny and sometimes a bit boring .To pick up this idea of worlds 'le monde arabe', different worlds might have different humours. humour is not above cultural asynchronicity. similarly, ideals, liberalism, racial and sexual equality...
your sweeping generalization is as complicit in increasing bigotry, through a facistic lumping-together of the 'moslem' world, as fthe facistic moslem clerks, say, are in calling the west vile, immoral and basically on their way to hell if not already there (which fundementally is really what all christians say of moslems, moslems of christians, jews of...etc). if we go down that route, we can also say the west tends to kill and humiliate skins of darker shade, has perfected the science and technology of death like no other world, set up the global phenomenon of mass pollution, talks of spreading democracy as flagrantly as they spoke of spreading their colonizing forces previously, only actually practice a mutual respect of human rights when it suits them. let me color code you too.
furthermore, whatever one might think of hezbollah, hezbollah
cannot be blamed for the amia bombing for the simplest reason that whilst a cat is an animal, an animal is not necessarily a cat. hezbollah are part of a larger community who hate israel and (seperately, but occasionely and stupidly synonymously) hate the jews. even if per israel's claim: a shiite south- lebanese man who hates israel/jews ... how novel and uniquely hezbollah..not. this is a point of logic, not one of conviction. to believe in the argentine government's claim without concrete proof is evidence of prejudice; that is the only something it tells.
now, how could borat have caused such sensitivity? nuclear fission, step 3 accomplished.
I knew my post would strike a chord. Noctilucent, I agree with you completely about the west's illustrious past and present. My country has done nothing to help the muslim world, and frankly i think the best thing we could do to help is leave it well alone and let muslims find there own path. Frankly, I don't like being called a bigot and pretty much just proved islamic over-sensitivity by calling me that. I am a friend of islam, I almost converted once, which is why I find the hate tearing that world apart to be all the more painful to me personally. I think, that if muslims could learn to laugh at themselves a bit more we'd be better off, in the same sense that any peoples who can find the humor in themselves is better off. Indonesians can, and turks can, but i dont feel the majority of the muslim world is able to, they always come off saying anyone who ever says anything about their religion is a bigot/racist rather than just brush it off and laugh at the idiot who said it. They should've LAUGHED at the pope when he made his comment about the Prophet, instead they got very angry. This denial of the unpleasant aspects of their culture (and we all have them) makes them come off sounding holier-than-thou and that helps no one. I can laugh at the unpleasant aspects of american culture, like our illustrious history of racism and hipocracy, and muslims can laugh at that to. If though I want to point out the ongoing anti-semetic attitudes (that are even present in the Qur'an, as well as anti-chirstian ones) of my muslim friends, i get an earful about how wrong I am and then they immediately go laugh with an anti-semetic joke. That hipocracy makes me just as mad as our hipocracy makes muslims mad.
And about the argentine government, they may very well be wrong about Iran's link with bombing, i wasn't commenting on that, i was commenting on how INSANELY STUPID it is to write a letter back to them saying "IT'S A ZIONIST CONSPIRACY!" Why didn't they just say, "if you clearly look at the evidence I'm sure you'll see that we had nothing to do with it and we send our regards to the victims and their families." It's like Hugo Chavez calling Bush the devil in front of the U.N. Your grown men in charge of governing an entire nation, please act like it.
And why can't I lump facists together? They both want individual freedoms gone, they both base their politics on hate and fear, they both want to push their religion by force, yet one side calls themselves chirstians and the other muslim. I'm saying that instead of muslims fighting christians and vice-versa, why don't the peoples of all faiths who want personal freedom and want peace fight the assholes who are preventing that? Why live in hate?
"Frankly, I don't like being called a bigot and pretty much just proved islamic over-sensitivity by calling me that. I am a friend of islam, I almost converted once,"
i called you a bigot because of your flattening language not because i am islamically over-sensitized. you are doubly a bigot because you see my response as an 'islamic' one not as that from an individual with a possibly credible opinion. i have my own issues with regards to islam...as any agnostic 'christian' has with regards to christianity. the fact is that my own stance is irrelevant to you in judging me as islamically-sensitive. perhaps you would wish to extend your smug postulization and tell me that i am reacting in a typically islamic agressive way. in which case if you were a christian, i could claim that you are typically passive agressive in a christian manner, using love and peace like insecticide against others. stroking your tres-gay hair with one hand, and toppling the tables of the jews with another.
"i am a friend of islam"....also tell me you have gay and black friends.
tick the p.c. checklist. do you also have paedophile friends?
re:argentine.... no isses there. i didn't explicity criticize, i added.
really, your post is full of too much silly shit. its not a matter of a few braincells gone wayward.
but, lastly, the islamic anti-semetic thing was funny. really funny.
Last comment on Borat: The (pseudo)Marxist reading
How come Cohen only makes fun of poorer people? British comedians have a legacy of making fun of the upper classes, Cohen does exacly the opposite by lampooning working, lower classes, and the thid world.
Possible answer: it is easier to make people laugh at the small town wih horses inside the houses than he suburban house with the hummer in the driveway. In other words, Cohen uses poorer characters for cheap laughs.
wait- lars - departed - you think marky wasted his role? i think it was a clever take on the original role (infernal affairs 2002 hong kong - amazing movie) which was not as feral.
i dont think departed even touched the original. see it if you havent.
oh- borat - right- funny. somewhat...but more deceiving than anything.
kyll -
i said marky mark was wasted in this film...i think he's actually a pretty
good actor and i just didn't find his character in this film to be all that
compelling. everything seemed to be overreactions.
i'll check out the original...i think i was just majorly disappointed because
i was expecting so much more..also i've been watching 'the wire' on hbo
and they do the police/wire tap/ etc thing so much more interestingly and
intelligently. the idea that leonardo's and damon's carachters could get
so high up so quick in the two organizations is baffling to me...
especially if he's careless enough to carry around an envelope for
half the movie that connects him to a major crime figure.
as far as borat goes...i didn't mean to make my opinion of him to
be so stifled or puritanical. i personally get all nervous or something
watching someone getting made to look like a fool..since i've stuck
my foot in my mouth so many times and have said things i've
regretted later..(not on this scale so much)... i'm glad a lot of them
aren't on film.
i feel sorry for the poor romanians who thought they were gonna get some good compansation for being in a hollywood movie. those producers are so greedy. there are bunch of borat sketches in yotube free and you get the idea. why buy a ticket to make some beverly hills company even richer. even on yotube it gets tiring after a couple of episodes.
jewish hollywood loves putting islam down while many of their ancestory were ghastly killed by fanatical catholics for just being jews and many jewish lives were saved by muslims, both during spanish inquisitions and second world war. it is all a political plan and hollywood greed. i really dislike anything comes out of hollywood. thats why i stopped going to movie theaters 15 years ago.
whoever noctilucent is, she or he is very articulate.
Borat
So, am I the only one that doesnt get Borat? Yes, Borat does show the chauvinism, racism, and anti-semitic leanings of our own culture, but may he also be fostering it? What is the cultural effect of singing along to 'throw the jew down the well'? I do not find him funny either, for everytime he does some brilliant piece of ironic comedy, there are 20 nice, everyday people who are used for cheap laughs.
And the other side of this thing, is that if you question the funnyness of Cohen, you are accused of being uptight and not getting it (which is what happens in the movie also, as with the feminists and in the dinner party).
Am I alone thinking that Cohen is irresponsible for producing stuff like this?
ditto. i thought you were going to write about liking borat and i was going to respond with a post similar to what you wrote.
I don't find him funny and don't get it either.
he is jewish. he is pushing buttons so folks reveal their inner selves. the whole thing is a skit merely made to allow those around him to accept him for what they assume he is, then he gets them to reveal their inner leanings...like getting excited about singing, "throw the jew down the well". He is making a point that racism does exist, just below the radar...he creates a new radar to show it to the masses.
quite brilliant I think.
He could have just done an andy kaufman yakov smirnof, "look, I am a foreigner" type bit...but he uses that to actually achieve a lot more.
He also went to theater school at either Cambridge or Oxford, can't remember which one.
I should clarify, I do get Borat, what I dont get is Borat mania. Even critics and journalists act as if they are too cool to not actually critique this stuff.
Borat is only really funny because you know that Cohen is (or was) and orthodox jew, that allows you to suspend all thought into the real issues. After the success I feel like we are going to have a lot more of this type of stuff.
It may be interesting to compare Borat to Cappelle. In the case of Chappelle, it is more straight forward because you know chappelle is chappelle and he is smart about showing us racism, but also giving alternatives and finally giving a space for young black people themselves to show how stupid stereotypes are, and how the culture can move on from there. Borat (with his insistance of staying in character 24/7) doesnt allow for that next step. I sometimes wonder who the joke is on, why doesn't Cohen allow for catharsis? In my opinion is because Borat is a one-line joke.
It reminds me of Nikki Lee traveling around the U.S. adopting silly stereotypes, photographing herself without critique, and then calling it art.
I saw the movie over the weekend, and there are a bunch of words that I can use to describe it: outrageous, hilarious, embarrassing, revolting, etc. I found parts of it funny and parts of it very, very sad. I think that in certain scenes, especially the climax, he is very irresponsible, in that people who aren't in on his joke could be very damaged by what he does.
In a sense he's kind of like Jackass meets the Colbert Report, which makes people want to watch, but he really illuminates a lot that is wrong with the world. So I guess I would say that he serves a purpose in that he makes people face prejudices that maybe they wouldn't have to deal with otherwise.
i think he's an amazing comedian, ethics aside.
We love spectacle, Borat does a fantastic job of weaving spectacle out of unsuspecting bystanders. Society craves spectacle, at least we’re not hanging people in public anymore…. oh yeah… we are. NICE! HIGH FIVE!!!
We love spectacle, Borat does a fantastic job of weaving spectacle out of unsuspecting bystanders. Society craves spectacle, at least we’re not hanging people in public anymore…. oh yeah… we are. NICE! HIGH FIVE!!!
cohen used to be funny when he was unknown & you could intrepet him as provocative. but with a movie he now just another part of our sad, celebrated pantheon of dip-shittedness.
what's sinbad up these days? is he cool again yet?
I've heard the movie is hilarious. Personally, I can't stand humor that uses unsuspecting participants, although I can think of many exceptions to that opinion, notably when Brad Pitt was "kidnapped" by the Jackass crew in front of a movie theater.
I've also wondered sometimes if Borat (like Cohen's other characters) is mean to unsuspecting people. There's an episode where Bruno has some college wrestlers on Spring Break in Florida show him how to wrestle, then yell "PARTY!!!" over and over, and finally moon the camera; only after this does he "reveal" that they're on "Austrian Gay TV", much to one of the wrestler's anger. On one level it is manipulative and harmful, but then again, these guys roll around on matresses with other men in tights, and are exposing themselves on TV. I'm not saying that wrestling isn't a legitmate sport or that people can't act like goofs on vacation, but I think that if these guys were comfortable with the erotic component of wrestling (while honestly acknowledging that their own interest is athletic) and the fact that their butts may not ONLY be viewed by women and straight men, they could have laughed the encounter off with their dignity intact. It just happened to be their turn to be had.
Some of Cohen's other victims do laugh him off, or good-naturedly try to correct him, or sometimes see through the joke and play along. These people don't take themselves or Borat so seriously, and it is them who emerge unscathed. Borat was apparently inspired by a Russian doctor Cohen met whom he thought was just hilarious - and I imagine that this doctor also said some offensive things that Cohen chose to laugh at rather than get upset over. Laughing at something is one of the best ways to diminish it, as well as to relieve all the unnecessary tensions that build up in the world. I think the more "uptight" of Cohen's victims appear absurd not because they're tricked, but because of their own unadmitted hypocrisy, ignorance, or pretentiousness. It is tragic, but it's not as though we don't have a choice in how we approach life.
... sorry, should be ".. it is THEY who emerge..."
Ha!
that kinda happens in the movie... not Brad Pitt though. The conference room/bedroom thing was a little over the top.... I bet it took 100 takes to get the bedroom scene just right.
excellent take thehoule. i have yet to see the movie, but i've been looking forward to it since seeing a preview in February (it was funnier than the movie i was there to see).
in terms of being mean to unsuspecting people, this sort of thing has been done for years...all the way back to the "Candid Camera" days. Cohen's Borat is merely a more twisted version of Punk'd minus the annoying celebrities and minus the tension release of finally letting them in on the joke. i personally love the fact that Cohen never allows that tension release.
also, let's remember that these nice, unsuspecting people couldn't have been all too terribly pissed about it when all was said and done...they signed the release forms to be used in the movie.
actually, the one thing that i really liked about punk'd was that it picked on celebrities rather than average people on the street.
for example, i don't remember the actor's name, but he was 16 years old and already owned a $250k vintage ferrari. after dropping it off at the valet the punk'd crew tricked him into thinking it was stolen and this kid about shit his pants...i really enjoyed watching that. i also liked the episode where they invented some bogus federal agency and then confiscated all of justin timberlake's stuff for failure to pay taxes. poor kid looked like he was going to cry.
also, the nice thing about jackass was that they pretty much only inflicted the pain on themselves. some times bystanders were involved but they usually only played to part of shocked witness, not duped victim.
oh well, i don't watch much anyhow.
true puddles...the celebrity element made the dis that much funnier (or sadistically satisfying).
it's a shame borat is so well known now...it would've been way cooler to make a jackass like <insert annoying celebrity here> reveal the true nature of their stupidity than making a guy like kissinger look merely uncomfortable.
i enjoy borat. people need to lighten up. where would the world be without mel brooks?
ali g is better.......yo yo yo'.......
is the best!
they are working on a Bruno movie
Out of his three characters, Borat is by far the strongest. I think the Bruno movie will bomb from too much overexposure. Also, he made an Ali G movie a couple years ago "In Da House" - it was awful.
The key to Borat's success is that he uses his "foreign-ness" to disarm unsuspecting victims. You'll notice that he's less successful in big cities like NYC and LA. He gets nowhere with the people in NY on the subway, on the sidewalk, and even the hotel front desk clerk. They are used to having odd people around and have no problems avoiding him or telling him to f-off.
The deep south and bible belt are a target-rich environment for Borat. People in those parts of the country are far more willing to try to impart and share their 'values' on an impressionable visitor...
puddles, actually the car on punk'd was one of the original porshe speedsters of which only 200 were made (james dean owned one.) the only reason i nitpick is because i saw it on the west side in a parking lot and almost caused an accident rubbernecking-its a beautiful car.... but i was disapointed when i saw that shit malcom in the middle walking away from it. my coworkers at the time explained to me when i got back to the office that it was recently on an episode of punk'd.
i think bruno is pretty amazing though, just because he fits into the scene - the fashion designers are so rediculous they just think he's one of them.
he's hillarious. the worst kind of biggotry is not the kind that is in your face ala KKK or skinheads, the worst and most scary racist are your next door neighbors, your everyday nobodies, that are seemingly nice to your face yet have an agenda that completely undermines their own credilbility as humans. there is a reason why this movie is a success, why we all laugh, because we are laughing at our own hypocrisy.
my wife and i went to see pearl jam in kansas city kansas - some outdoor amphitheater gig about 8 or 9 years ago, and we stayed at a bed and breakfast - fearful of creepy crawlys in our beds - so while the grandmotherly owner was touring us through the place, she noted to use that a "mixed" couple was staying there as well, and did we have a problem with that? well of course my wife and i said no and she went on to suggest that if we did they would be more than obliged to make changes, and assured us that they would not be a threat to us. my tongue had my teeth poking in it i was so pissed. she then notes that she and her friends call them "oreo cookies"....! WHAT THE FUCK?! what could my wife and do? we did not have a lot of $$$ then, we made reservations, paid for this joint, could not get a refund, could not throw money down the drain and stay elsewhere...we tried to even let the other couple know what was being said - oh did i mention this couple stayed there all the time!...so we decided money mattered rather than the principle, and bad mouthed that joint to everyone we knew. i regret not telling that woman what i really thought, and today given my financial situ i would have no problem doing it. i hated myself for not doing her different, i owed it to that couple to reem her ass.
let borat peel back that hard shell of niceness/denial to show the true nature of americans and their deep seeded, fleshy, gooey - BULLSHIT!
i agree with Steven Ward that the character of Borat is a bit much, and that Cohen is irresponsible... NOT!!!
is niice. i like?
oh cummon, not only is it completely harmless, its also getting old. anywho, borat doing u.s. was just not funny as him doing the u.k. he, as ali g., really needs the embarassed reserve of an elderly englishman next to him to bring out the best in him. and borat in khazakhastan is sweet..and the anthem...and the mules.
and his 'bruno' was good too. him getting the neo-nazis to pose for a gay show. heh.
this is not the mysoginism of an emenim.
Borat was stolen from http://www.ikissyou.org/ - which is now, no longer available....
In the highly anticipated mockumentary Borat: Cultural Learnings of America for Make Benefit Glorious Nation of Kazakhstan, second-world superstar Borat Sagdiyev (aka Sacha Baron Cohen of Ali G. fame) travels the US in search of love, understanding, and Pamela Anderson's welcoming bosom. But Borat's shtick –exquisitely inept English, caterpillar 'stache, sleazy non sequiturs – reminds us of another heavily accented, hirsute symbol of the sex: late-'90s Internet celebrity Mahir Cagri, whose Web site, www.ikissyou.org, implored women of the world to visit his native Turkey, "stay my home," and, yes, kiss him.compared to
An article in Wired says:
Turns out, we're not the only ones who noticed the similarities: "All people know Sacha Baron Cohen imitate only me," Cagri recently fumed via email. "He is stealing my character and giving bad message to USA people." Cagri, who's been struggling to start a career in show business ever since his boom-era glory days, says he intends to sue Baron Cohen. "He never contacted me or got my permission," he writes. "If possible you can help me too for stop this or find good lawyer?" Sorry, we can't do that, but we can give Cagri the third degree – and let Wired readers be the judge.
WIRED: In the mock-doc, Borat is a globe-trotting journalist. Are you also a man of letters?
CAGRI: I do journalism as a freelancer sometimes. I go travel sometimes and take pictures-video-write, meet people for documentary.
Borat travels the US, examining American culture. Any memories from your visit in 1999?
I can't forget party about me in San Francisco. Many people kissed me, took my signature, and took picture. America mix culture and big country, but people don't think about other people. They love their own life only and fun-sex-game-drink.
Borat plays the guitar and sings Kazakh folk tunes. Are you also musically inclined?
I can play many instruments, but best I play accordion-flute-mandolin-violin-drum-and-saz (Turkish instrument). I like Cher and Shakira. Their voice and songs nice I like it.
Borat's signature is his mustache. Didn't you rock it first?
I start first grow mustache, 10 or 15 year ago. Sometimes, I been no mustache. I'm male and mustache shows a male mature.
Borat has his movie. Any plans for the Mahir Cagri story?
I'm trying to find USA publisher, and I hope I can receive good offer from Hollywood and play my own life and share with my fans, Julia Roberts, Spielberg, David Bowie, or others, this movie.
– Steven Leckart
seriously, it's entertainment. But then again, I love southpark.
First off, the movie was just "eh." Occassional giggles, although the hotel room fight was simultaneously one of the most funny and revolting things I'd ever seen in my life. The was almost TOO MUCH plot.
I agree with betadine, good for SBC that he exposes the prejudice of this country. Those kids in the RV, going on about how our country would be better if slavery was still legal? Or that old cowboy at the rodeo talking about killing homosexuals? Are you f-ing kidding me? These people are not "innocent bystanders" and deserve everything they get.
just saw the movie..
i thought it displayed disgusting f'ed up americans quite well. ^^ yeah the hotel scene was absurd.. like most of the movie.
apparently the frat boys in the rv scene are trying to sue for making them look like the idiots they are..
and here i was thinking all those scenes were staged/rehearsed/scripted with actors/preped interviewees instead of real people. Now im even more scared of my countrymen... Apparently those kids in the RV are filing suit...
Another issue no one is talking about is the way that Borat insults central europeans in general and maybe, more subtly muslims(?) Both Borat and Ali G are pseudo-muslims and his treatment of both are ruthless. Among the worst of the worst cases are the shots in the village, which apparently he is exploiting for financial gain:
Borat film 'tricked' poor village actors
3 pounds for a film that will make him millions? This guy has no conscience, he is becoming all that he seems to be fighting.
I went to see it this week-end, not sure why, seeing as how I could never watch his show (agree with Liberty Bell and not being able to stand humor that makes fun of people through deception) - anyways, I walked out after 3 minutes.
I think it's the only movie I've ever walked out of. Not sure what the point is or why people think it's that funny - as far as I can tell the only people he's making fun of are those who are watching it and laughing - a sort of meta-critique and satire to the extreme, but funny?
It also made me extremely nervous to hear people laughiing, and in between what they were talking about. Maybe I'm underestimating my fellow movie goers, but I can't believe that they all fully got the 'joke'.
We went and saw The Departed instead, which was fantastic (even Leonardo!) - highly recommended...
^^ i must be the only person who thinks that the departed is one
of the worst movies i've seen. there is very little that is plausible
within the film...and do cops really fight each other at the drop of
a hat? that and actors have no idea that not everyone in boston
has an accent..or that a boston accent involves more than dropping
an 'r' here and there. leonardo was pretty good. the only thing
that made the movie worth it was the ending which i found to be
rather poetic. marky mark is completely wasted in this film...so
many good actors, so little plot, so choppy with a soundtrack that
dominates the conversations it's supposed to support.
as far as borat...i can't usually watch his show...i find that kind of
humor to be cringe humor...seems as though sbc is taking advantage
of people who are attempting to be helpful and friendly...regardless
of how misguided they may be.
I think the muslim world could use a sense of humor frankly. They need to learn to poke fun at themselves. Borat may be an extreme exagerration of central asian/western asian/muslim culture but the fact that it speaks any truth at all (like anti-semetism, homophobia, and mysoginy) about that culture is frankly horrifying. I went to go see this movie with a close muslim, female friend and the fact that she told me that it was relatively indiciative of the feelings in her part of the world disturbed me. Those stereotypes are only reinforced by the attitude their leaders give off. When the argentine goverment got a letter from the Iranian government claiming that the bombing of the Jewish community center was not attributiable to Iranian sponsored Hezbollah as the argentines had claimed, but was instead a "Zionist plot", that ought to tell you something.
Another scary point to make is that, arguably, the "Islamo-facist" ideals embodied by Borat find resonace with many of the Americans who laugh with him rather than at him. I find it ironic that the christian right facists and the islamic facists share similar political ideals, if not inevitable as Islam and Christianity share so many similarities and the two sides have been warring with each other throughout history. I've never been a big fan of SBC, except I think this movie is important to the contemporary world as well as being very funny. Love him or hate him, I think he has a point to make about the modern world and as long as that point is heard properly by even the smallest segment of the people who see this film, we may all be better off for it.
the departed was much better when it was filmed in hong kong last year and called 'infernal affairs'. the plot was cleaner, the music better the tension was great.
"I think the muslim world could use a sense of humor frankly."
i am of a muslim background and i found borat funny and sometimes a bit boring .To pick up this idea of worlds 'le monde arabe', different worlds might have different humours. humour is not above cultural asynchronicity. similarly, ideals, liberalism, racial and sexual equality...
your sweeping generalization is as complicit in increasing bigotry, through a facistic lumping-together of the 'moslem' world, as fthe facistic moslem clerks, say, are in calling the west vile, immoral and basically on their way to hell if not already there (which fundementally is really what all christians say of moslems, moslems of christians, jews of...etc). if we go down that route, we can also say the west tends to kill and humiliate skins of darker shade, has perfected the science and technology of death like no other world, set up the global phenomenon of mass pollution, talks of spreading democracy as flagrantly as they spoke of spreading their colonizing forces previously, only actually practice a mutual respect of human rights when it suits them. let me color code you too.
furthermore, whatever one might think of hezbollah, hezbollah
cannot be blamed for the amia bombing for the simplest reason that whilst a cat is an animal, an animal is not necessarily a cat. hezbollah are part of a larger community who hate israel and (seperately, but occasionely and stupidly synonymously) hate the jews. even if per israel's claim: a shiite south- lebanese man who hates israel/jews ... how novel and uniquely hezbollah..not. this is a point of logic, not one of conviction. to believe in the argentine government's claim without concrete proof is evidence of prejudice; that is the only something it tells.
now, how could borat have caused such sensitivity? nuclear fission, step 3 accomplished.
I knew my post would strike a chord. Noctilucent, I agree with you completely about the west's illustrious past and present. My country has done nothing to help the muslim world, and frankly i think the best thing we could do to help is leave it well alone and let muslims find there own path. Frankly, I don't like being called a bigot and pretty much just proved islamic over-sensitivity by calling me that. I am a friend of islam, I almost converted once, which is why I find the hate tearing that world apart to be all the more painful to me personally. I think, that if muslims could learn to laugh at themselves a bit more we'd be better off, in the same sense that any peoples who can find the humor in themselves is better off. Indonesians can, and turks can, but i dont feel the majority of the muslim world is able to, they always come off saying anyone who ever says anything about their religion is a bigot/racist rather than just brush it off and laugh at the idiot who said it. They should've LAUGHED at the pope when he made his comment about the Prophet, instead they got very angry. This denial of the unpleasant aspects of their culture (and we all have them) makes them come off sounding holier-than-thou and that helps no one. I can laugh at the unpleasant aspects of american culture, like our illustrious history of racism and hipocracy, and muslims can laugh at that to. If though I want to point out the ongoing anti-semetic attitudes (that are even present in the Qur'an, as well as anti-chirstian ones) of my muslim friends, i get an earful about how wrong I am and then they immediately go laugh with an anti-semetic joke. That hipocracy makes me just as mad as our hipocracy makes muslims mad.
And about the argentine government, they may very well be wrong about Iran's link with bombing, i wasn't commenting on that, i was commenting on how INSANELY STUPID it is to write a letter back to them saying "IT'S A ZIONIST CONSPIRACY!" Why didn't they just say, "if you clearly look at the evidence I'm sure you'll see that we had nothing to do with it and we send our regards to the victims and their families." It's like Hugo Chavez calling Bush the devil in front of the U.N. Your grown men in charge of governing an entire nation, please act like it.
And why can't I lump facists together? They both want individual freedoms gone, they both base their politics on hate and fear, they both want to push their religion by force, yet one side calls themselves chirstians and the other muslim. I'm saying that instead of muslims fighting christians and vice-versa, why don't the peoples of all faiths who want personal freedom and want peace fight the assholes who are preventing that? Why live in hate?
blah.
"Frankly, I don't like being called a bigot and pretty much just proved islamic over-sensitivity by calling me that. I am a friend of islam, I almost converted once,"
i called you a bigot because of your flattening language not because i am islamically over-sensitized. you are doubly a bigot because you see my response as an 'islamic' one not as that from an individual with a possibly credible opinion. i have my own issues with regards to islam...as any agnostic 'christian' has with regards to christianity. the fact is that my own stance is irrelevant to you in judging me as islamically-sensitive. perhaps you would wish to extend your smug postulization and tell me that i am reacting in a typically islamic agressive way. in which case if you were a christian, i could claim that you are typically passive agressive in a christian manner, using love and peace like insecticide against others. stroking your tres-gay hair with one hand, and toppling the tables of the jews with another.
"i am a friend of islam"....also tell me you have gay and black friends.
tick the p.c. checklist. do you also have paedophile friends?
re:argentine.... no isses there. i didn't explicity criticize, i added.
really, your post is full of too much silly shit. its not a matter of a few braincells gone wayward.
but, lastly, the islamic anti-semetic thing was funny. really funny.
Last comment on Borat: The (pseudo)Marxist reading
How come Cohen only makes fun of poorer people? British comedians have a legacy of making fun of the upper classes, Cohen does exacly the opposite by lampooning working, lower classes, and the thid world.
Possible answer: it is easier to make people laugh at the small town wih horses inside the houses than he suburban house with the hummer in the driveway. In other words, Cohen uses poorer characters for cheap laughs.
wait- lars - departed - you think marky wasted his role? i think it was a clever take on the original role (infernal affairs 2002 hong kong - amazing movie) which was not as feral.
i dont think departed even touched the original. see it if you havent.
oh- borat - right- funny. somewhat...but more deceiving than anything.
kyll -
i said marky mark was wasted in this film...i think he's actually a pretty
good actor and i just didn't find his character in this film to be all that
compelling. everything seemed to be overreactions.
i'll check out the original...i think i was just majorly disappointed because
i was expecting so much more..also i've been watching 'the wire' on hbo
and they do the police/wire tap/ etc thing so much more interestingly and
intelligently. the idea that leonardo's and damon's carachters could get
so high up so quick in the two organizations is baffling to me...
especially if he's careless enough to carry around an envelope for
half the movie that connects him to a major crime figure.
as far as borat goes...i didn't mean to make my opinion of him to
be so stifled or puritanical. i personally get all nervous or something
watching someone getting made to look like a fool..since i've stuck
my foot in my mouth so many times and have said things i've
regretted later..(not on this scale so much)... i'm glad a lot of them
aren't on film.
i feel sorry for the poor romanians who thought they were gonna get some good compansation for being in a hollywood movie. those producers are so greedy. there are bunch of borat sketches in yotube free and you get the idea. why buy a ticket to make some beverly hills company even richer. even on yotube it gets tiring after a couple of episodes.
jewish hollywood loves putting islam down while many of their ancestory were ghastly killed by fanatical catholics for just being jews and many jewish lives were saved by muslims, both during spanish inquisitions and second world war. it is all a political plan and hollywood greed. i really dislike anything comes out of hollywood. thats why i stopped going to movie theaters 15 years ago.
whoever noctilucent is, she or he is very articulate.
I love Borat’s depiction of Gypsies, it’s spot on. If you’ve never lived in a country with Gypsies you wouldn’t understand though.
QOE, those are some scary words.
I wish i were living in a country with gypsies
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