have a look at the parking garage by machado-sillvetti on princeton's campus. it's not "richardsonian romanesque" but it's a strong modern "building" -- carpark -- that responds well to an older campus.
yes, disturbed! I read the title of the thread and thought "YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT?!?!?!!!??"
I mean, maybe if by some freak of nature the Allegheny County Courthouse was gutted by fire (stone burning fire!) at the same time as an incredible need to replace the justice system with downtown parking, and they..... no wait, nevermind. that would still suck.
Have you considered encouraging your client to seek a more appropriate inspiration/starting point? A few arguments in your favor:
1. The bay-spacing and floor-to-floor heights of a typical parking garage are not similar to Richardsonian buildings.
2. Parking garages typically have structural limitations which dictate what the facade will look like, especially if you're designing a precast structure.
3. I would guess that this would be an open parking garage, in which the code would require a high percentage of open area on the facade. However, Richardsonian buildings are inherently solid. You could design an enclosed garage, but there are a whole host of other issues associated with this (egress, sprinkler, etc.)
Wow...let us know if you're able to work this one out.
FRO - the Allegheny County Courthouse could be consumed by fire. Richardson's Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce building was. I wonder what car HH Richardson would drive if he was ever around anything besides a horse-less carriage?
Actually - the project is 2 levels of parking with 3 floors of residential above. the parking cannot be placed underground, otherwise it would be easier to do a "Romanesque" apartment building.
The program is really strange - I have to provide public-access long-term parking for a church across the street at the ground level - the second level is residential parking with controlled access, and above are 15-32 condos that are all supposed to have a water view (the water view is on the shortest side of a trapezoidal lot). oh... and the church parking has to be open-air parking...
There are three things that are keeping this building from being "contemporary"
1. the town's zoning code is one of those codes with "style and color" restrictions - all the way down to the type of fence you can have on your property (log or stone fences only). I've done modern in this town before, but only with residential additions and for another office. they don't like it, but as long as you don't have to go before the board of appeals, you can do pretty much anything you want.
2. The client does mostly neo-colonial developments, and VEs the heck out of them until the are completely wrapped in vinyl. I understand that his past projects had to be re-programmed to fit his stylistic tendencies.
3. the principal is the one who suggested "Richardsonian Romanesque" at the meeting yesterday, and the client bought it: "you know- turrets, shingles, the whole nine yards." I'm thinking to myself - oh crap... how am I going to pull this one off... Our office does a lot of the large-scale apartment developments that are pretty unremarkable "old mill" knock-offs. I was brought in to be the one "contemporary designer" on staff - inject new life into the office (and they are paying me very well)... although the design of my two previous projects were completely f-ed up by the principal... How am I supposed to suggest a contemporary design when it's the principal driving the whole richardsonian thing?
my initial design scheme was really interesting - it met all of the programmatic requirements and everyone in the office seemed to like it (which usually means the principal hates it) - but it was thoroughly modern due to the program. Basically I just had to present how the units and the parking laid out due to the program... show some 3d massing models... that's when the principal started talking crazy.
after the meeting, I started sketching some disneyland building as a reaction - like the magical kingdom meets trinity church- one of the senior associates comes over to my desk and said "you know - it'll probably end up looking like this." It makes me sick just thinking about it...
it's the clients who are driving this stuff... and firms like mine aren't helping (the principal takes jobs that everyone else passes up). i've started sending my resume out to a couple places - hopefully I can find a job at a firm that actually understands design.
be ecclectic modern... nobody would ever be able to afford building richardsonian anyway now... youre right that it would mean going disneylandish EIFS??? so go modern / traditional... richardsonian was ecclectic...
the best argument for innovation is money. if you can't build in traditional methods but you want something classic, instead build modern with more traditional materials, new but classic... tell them that its not very fine to build like disneyland, comes across as cheap, actually diminishes a true classic...
the ironic thing is that richardsonian was reallya kind of early modern at the time innovative because it was ecclectic... and there was craft. tell them the spirit of richardsonian style was in the materiality and craft, ornament as well. but nobody will, for example be in favor of building a stupid turretted stair tower for a parkade... doesnt make sense, its a waste of money... you can develop a richardsonian feel and be modern. abstract things, you can still have arches... i think its all in the sell, talk sense, and in the design, if you design something nice they will buy it... after all, youre the *contemporary* design guy, nobody is expecting you to conform.
Apr 14, 06 11:02 pm ·
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richardsonian parking garage
i've just been asked to design a parking garage in "richardsonian romanesque."
is anyone else disturbed by this?
-to
first thought -
have a look at the parking garage by machado-sillvetti on princeton's campus. it's not "richardsonian romanesque" but it's a strong modern "building" -- carpark -- that responds well to an older campus.
to-
yes, disturbed! I read the title of the thread and thought "YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT?!?!?!!!??"
I mean, maybe if by some freak of nature the Allegheny County Courthouse was gutted by fire (stone burning fire!) at the same time as an incredible need to replace the justice system with downtown parking, and they..... no wait, nevermind. that would still suck.
Maybe if one wanted to use FLW's Morris store in San Francisco as an inspirational intermediary...
toaster - yes, the idea is disturbing.
Have you considered encouraging your client to seek a more appropriate inspiration/starting point? A few arguments in your favor:
1. The bay-spacing and floor-to-floor heights of a typical parking garage are not similar to Richardsonian buildings.
2. Parking garages typically have structural limitations which dictate what the facade will look like, especially if you're designing a precast structure.
3. I would guess that this would be an open parking garage, in which the code would require a high percentage of open area on the facade. However, Richardsonian buildings are inherently solid. You could design an enclosed garage, but there are a whole host of other issues associated with this (egress, sprinkler, etc.)
Wow...let us know if you're able to work this one out.
FRO - the Allegheny County Courthouse could be consumed by fire. Richardson's Cincinnati Chamber of Commerce building was. I wonder what car HH Richardson would drive if he was ever around anything besides a horse-less carriage?
See if you can't your client to embrace Gorman Richardsonian styled parking structures. It would at least get you into a more contemporary language:
http://www.gra.net/arch/corporate.html
Actually - the project is 2 levels of parking with 3 floors of residential above. the parking cannot be placed underground, otherwise it would be easier to do a "Romanesque" apartment building.
The program is really strange - I have to provide public-access long-term parking for a church across the street at the ground level - the second level is residential parking with controlled access, and above are 15-32 condos that are all supposed to have a water view (the water view is on the shortest side of a trapezoidal lot). oh... and the church parking has to be open-air parking...
There are three things that are keeping this building from being "contemporary"
1. the town's zoning code is one of those codes with "style and color" restrictions - all the way down to the type of fence you can have on your property (log or stone fences only). I've done modern in this town before, but only with residential additions and for another office. they don't like it, but as long as you don't have to go before the board of appeals, you can do pretty much anything you want.
2. The client does mostly neo-colonial developments, and VEs the heck out of them until the are completely wrapped in vinyl. I understand that his past projects had to be re-programmed to fit his stylistic tendencies.
3. the principal is the one who suggested "Richardsonian Romanesque" at the meeting yesterday, and the client bought it: "you know- turrets, shingles, the whole nine yards." I'm thinking to myself - oh crap... how am I going to pull this one off... Our office does a lot of the large-scale apartment developments that are pretty unremarkable "old mill" knock-offs. I was brought in to be the one "contemporary designer" on staff - inject new life into the office (and they are paying me very well)... although the design of my two previous projects were completely f-ed up by the principal... How am I supposed to suggest a contemporary design when it's the principal driving the whole richardsonian thing?
my initial design scheme was really interesting - it met all of the programmatic requirements and everyone in the office seemed to like it (which usually means the principal hates it) - but it was thoroughly modern due to the program. Basically I just had to present how the units and the parking laid out due to the program... show some 3d massing models... that's when the principal started talking crazy.
after the meeting, I started sketching some disneyland building as a reaction - like the magical kingdom meets trinity church- one of the senior associates comes over to my desk and said "you know - it'll probably end up looking like this." It makes me sick just thinking about it...
it's the clients who are driving this stuff... and firms like mine aren't helping (the principal takes jobs that everyone else passes up). i've started sending my resume out to a couple places - hopefully I can find a job at a firm that actually understands design.
Good luck, toaster.
Life's too short to work for tools.
I'm curious - what town/city is this for?
be ecclectic modern... nobody would ever be able to afford building richardsonian anyway now... youre right that it would mean going disneylandish EIFS??? so go modern / traditional... richardsonian was ecclectic...
the best argument for innovation is money. if you can't build in traditional methods but you want something classic, instead build modern with more traditional materials, new but classic... tell them that its not very fine to build like disneyland, comes across as cheap, actually diminishes a true classic...
the ironic thing is that richardsonian was reallya kind of early modern at the time innovative because it was ecclectic... and there was craft. tell them the spirit of richardsonian style was in the materiality and craft, ornament as well. but nobody will, for example be in favor of building a stupid turretted stair tower for a parkade... doesnt make sense, its a waste of money... you can develop a richardsonian feel and be modern. abstract things, you can still have arches... i think its all in the sell, talk sense, and in the design, if you design something nice they will buy it... after all, youre the *contemporary* design guy, nobody is expecting you to conform.
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