Hi guys! Im new here! Ive been a lurker for awhile and finally decided to register.
I am a junior architect at ASU and I am designing and Aquatic center. Everything was going on smoothly and then it came to structure... and bam! Brick wall lol.
Anyways alittle bit about my project: It is located in a central park location surrounded by schools and residential.
My Idea is that curiosity will engage with all these pathways in an introverted atmosphere of landscape and structure. What I want to do is make the observers curiosity brings them to explore and discover the aquatic center. This creates a circulation creating a voyeuristic procession through a more intimate landscape with the structure inside. This creates a whole new atmosphere capturing the soul of the building by bringing in the essence of landscape through its interior and exterior courtyards that respond to the interior aquatic program.
Here are some images... outer walls are out of concrete, except for one, but it doesnt matter at the moment. Also the central block popping up from everything is where locker rooms/admin/support spaces are all are, and all lower ones are the 3 poolds, diving, swimming and rec.
I love what I am doing, but I feel if I put a truss system in there its just going to SCREAM warehouse. I want to be different, but not in a crazy way. There is a simplistic feeling to my project that I like and I want to create taht with my structure... and I dont know if a phratt truss or something along those lines will do the trick. The issue here is long span, and steel is the material we are given to solve the long span issue. I want to make the truss systems reach all the way out of the building to the exterior walls but that will enclose the sky when your inside the out courtyards. This is the first time doing something that involves a structural truss of some short... so Im really at a blank and dont know what to do... I dont want to do a warehouse aquatic center
Hopefully this is making sense to everyone, its 3am and I havent had any sleep this week at all and Im about to pass out any second now.
you could dome the whole thing - like the buckminster fuller dome at the asm materials park outside cleveland:
or you could use space frame - like the javits ctr:
but i don't really see the warehouse association you're getting - at least not in the way that you seem to be worried about. you could equally as easily talk about associations with hangars, rock concert stages, etc, but when it comes down to it, what you've got is a large steel structural bent.
the fact that it's assymettrical, that it's anchored to masonry at one end, makes it kind of interesting. and that you'll have a kind of pinwheel of structure when you start to show it in your aerial 3d view. (i'd like to see how this pinwheel comes together and then what you do with it once you've seen the result.)
other inspirational images:
bridge by eiffel
pin connection by piano - (consider solid tapered steel coming down to a pin connection instead of open trusses like you've shown?)
you could also build steel pylons/piers and support a cable-stayed roof from it.
when i was in a bind - in this case one of maybe not knowing all of the steel options available to you - i usually went to hang out in the library for a while. you can find information, inspiration, and lower your stress level all at the same time. (and in our library the barcelona chairs were great for sleeping.)
What about usingsmaller but solid structural members given extra support through the use of a cables? These are some disparate images meant for inspiration not as an answer:
This contraption is called a grain auger:
and the detail is this:
I've always loved the exo-skeleton appearance of these things!
Cables and there support members can extend beyond the buidling and make a connection with the site in interesting, semi-enclosing ways too.
My thesis project was an aquatic center. Email me if you would like the link to the electronic version of my book. My project was slightly different from yours - I suspended the swimming pools using cables (in Dulles Airport fashion) over an existing channel of water - so there was a conversation between "real water" and "fake water."
Anways, back to the question you asked about structure. I would challenge you to approach your truss layout in much the same way you are dealing with the procession to the building. Perhaps the truss layout is irregular - in places - to respond to the specific discovery moments of the visitor. Will visitors see the entire building at once, or are you revealing it to them gradually?
On the other hand, you may really want your truss layout to be fiercely regular - but you should have a good reason for it. It is possible to introduce variation without being "crazy" or not "simplistic."
some of the images i posted don't show up all of the time.
if you right click on the red x, click on properties, and copy the address into your address window, there are some interesting steel structure photographs on the mit site.
I assume since she mentioned structural steel and an aquatic center that it is part of the steel competition which option one is an aquatic center...I personally am in option 2, open scheme. Either way it irks me to see people not do their own research and attempt to get others to do their work for them.
i understand jason's frustration, but i've never been particularly interested in hoarding information for the advantage of a few. competitions are about synthesizing the things you can learn and/or find out into a singular design proposal.
share what you know. (sometimes what you don't know, but only surmise.)
Steven, they are at an architecture school, they have the information...big difference between hoarding and doing. I bet ASU has a far better library and other available resources of information than I do where I am at...yet I can still somehow do my own research.
One of my professors early on in undergrad said that people design in different ways: some people do rigorous research into typology program etc., some people look at pretty pictures for inspiration, some people come up with stuff out of the air. I've always been a "look at pretty pictures" designer, but that doesn't mean copying, it means looking at, say, an image of a fork, and helping it inform my building cladding system.
I don't see what we're offering here as "research", I see it as inspirational pictures.
you are missing my point, if there were just pictures up, then I would completely agree with you. Read the thread...there are also many people basically thinking for the person.
I personally hold the opinion that people learn best by doing for themselves. It is much harder to do this, to creatively come up with your own solution, but then again that is sorta what a design education is about.
well I am done with this, just wanted to get my point across that I do not have a problem with sharing pictures or similar projects...it's the sharing and giving of concrete ideas when someone is basically saying it is to hard for them to come up with this themselves.
Thanks a whole lot everybody. Im not trying to win a competition here, honestly I could care less about the competition, my main concern is that I dont want to ruin my project lol. Im just trying to find new ways and ideas of structure. Yes they teach stuctures however it doesnt really reconcile with studio. Ive done research myself looking at different truss types and such but it seems I have something different here. Ive been interested in pin connections but I only see that it can be used as a horizontal member. I somehow want to celebrate the steel connect with the concrete without destroying the essense of the project. Im really looking for pictures of trusses but I cant find a good website that shows... I really want to see an inspirational photo to base on so I can do what Im wanting to do. I have cascading planes and like Hagia Sophia and architecture from Istanbul, all though my project is not symetrical... I have this idea of the structures spiraling around the entiring thing each structurally helping each other. I see how I am going to do this, but I dont know if its a truss or a tubalar connection. Thanks Steven and Liberty a lot, Im still looking for a new idea on trusses and what will look right. I think Im just to fond of my interior sketch up model lol.
Ive had acouple ideas running through my head but to me it doesnt seem aesthecticly pleasing. What I am trying to see is alternative ways to support a roof other than a plan oridinary truss. Thanks guys
Beautiful how the roof floats. Feels so nice, no ugly heavy trusses keeping the roof down. But cables and strut system with the use of hypostyle column arangements, beautiful.
Also I wanst there just looking at the roof lol... but I was there all day looking at structural steel and truss system books. I think I am having a hard time because I was stressed to show structural steel, I just dont know how to celebrate it with concrete.
an alternate thought. aquatic centers house pools as their primary function. there are structures that are basically pool shelters that are above ground - check out thin shelled air formed concrete structures . They work on a variety of scales and don't scream warehouse - more like spacehouse.
Design Jam with Structural Steel
Hi guys! Im new here! Ive been a lurker for awhile and finally decided to register.
I am a junior architect at ASU and I am designing and Aquatic center. Everything was going on smoothly and then it came to structure... and bam! Brick wall lol.
Anyways alittle bit about my project: It is located in a central park location surrounded by schools and residential.
My Idea is that curiosity will engage with all these pathways in an introverted atmosphere of landscape and structure. What I want to do is make the observers curiosity brings them to explore and discover the aquatic center. This creates a circulation creating a voyeuristic procession through a more intimate landscape with the structure inside. This creates a whole new atmosphere capturing the soul of the building by bringing in the essence of landscape through its interior and exterior courtyards that respond to the interior aquatic program.
Here are some images... outer walls are out of concrete, except for one, but it doesnt matter at the moment. Also the central block popping up from everything is where locker rooms/admin/support spaces are all are, and all lower ones are the 3 poolds, diving, swimming and rec.
I love what I am doing, but I feel if I put a truss system in there its just going to SCREAM warehouse. I want to be different, but not in a crazy way. There is a simplistic feeling to my project that I like and I want to create taht with my structure... and I dont know if a phratt truss or something along those lines will do the trick. The issue here is long span, and steel is the material we are given to solve the long span issue. I want to make the truss systems reach all the way out of the building to the exterior walls but that will enclose the sky when your inside the out courtyards. This is the first time doing something that involves a structural truss of some short... so Im really at a blank and dont know what to do... I dont want to do a warehouse aquatic center
Hopefully this is making sense to everyone, its 3am and I havent had any sleep this week at all and Im about to pass out any second now.
Here are some pictures:
http://www.atruscorp.com/images/upload_44377ed22fbf7.jpg
http://www.atruscorp.com/images/upload_44377ed275163.jpg
http://www.atruscorp.com/images/upload_44377ed2d0e36.jpg
Thanks guys so much!
why don't you just go ahead with the truss system but cover it up with panels or some shit so that it appears made from "one piece"?
you could dome the whole thing - like the buckminster fuller dome at the asm materials park outside cleveland:
or you could use space frame - like the javits ctr:
but i don't really see the warehouse association you're getting - at least not in the way that you seem to be worried about. you could equally as easily talk about associations with hangars, rock concert stages, etc, but when it comes down to it, what you've got is a large steel structural bent.
the fact that it's assymettrical, that it's anchored to masonry at one end, makes it kind of interesting. and that you'll have a kind of pinwheel of structure when you start to show it in your aerial 3d view. (i'd like to see how this pinwheel comes together and then what you do with it once you've seen the result.)
other inspirational images:
bridge by eiffel
pin connection by piano - (consider solid tapered steel coming down to a pin connection instead of open trusses like you've shown?)
anohter pin joint connection by eiffel:
you could also build steel pylons/piers and support a cable-stayed roof from it.
when i was in a bind - in this case one of maybe not knowing all of the steel options available to you - i usually went to hang out in the library for a while. you can find information, inspiration, and lower your stress level all at the same time. (and in our library the barcelona chairs were great for sleeping.)
What about usingsmaller but solid structural members given extra support through the use of a cables? These are some disparate images meant for inspiration not as an answer:
This contraption is called a grain auger:
and the detail is this:
I've always loved the exo-skeleton appearance of these things!
Cables and there support members can extend beyond the buidling and make a connection with the site in interesting, semi-enclosing ways too.
Sorry, "their" support members.
I'll roll up my sleeves for this one...
My thesis project was an aquatic center. Email me if you would like the link to the electronic version of my book. My project was slightly different from yours - I suspended the swimming pools using cables (in Dulles Airport fashion) over an existing channel of water - so there was a conversation between "real water" and "fake water."
Anways, back to the question you asked about structure. I would challenge you to approach your truss layout in much the same way you are dealing with the procession to the building. Perhaps the truss layout is irregular - in places - to respond to the specific discovery moments of the visitor. Will visitors see the entire building at once, or are you revealing it to them gradually?
On the other hand, you may really want your truss layout to be fiercely regular - but you should have a good reason for it. It is possible to introduce variation without being "crazy" or not "simplistic."
Good luck.
some of the images i posted don't show up all of the time.
if you right click on the red x, click on properties, and copy the address into your address window, there are some interesting steel structure photographs on the mit site.
A beautiful collection of images, btw, Steven.
Indeed, liberty bell and Steven. Amoroso should be thankful for the research that you did on his/her behalf.
Man, you know there are many people on this site in the same competition, yet we are doing our own research.
Do they not teach structures at ASU?
Oh...it's a competition?
yes.
I assume since she mentioned structural steel and an aquatic center that it is part of the steel competition which option one is an aquatic center...I personally am in option 2, open scheme. Either way it irks me to see people not do their own research and attempt to get others to do their work for them.
i understand jason's frustration, but i've never been particularly interested in hoarding information for the advantage of a few. competitions are about synthesizing the things you can learn and/or find out into a singular design proposal.
share what you know. (sometimes what you don't know, but only surmise.)
i ain't telling for which competition i am gonna ride this invention of not mine.
*sentence inspired by vado. thanks vado.
Steven, they are at an architecture school, they have the information...big difference between hoarding and doing. I bet ASU has a far better library and other available resources of information than I do where I am at...yet I can still somehow do my own research.
One of my professors early on in undergrad said that people design in different ways: some people do rigorous research into typology program etc., some people look at pretty pictures for inspiration, some people come up with stuff out of the air. I've always been a "look at pretty pictures" designer, but that doesn't mean copying, it means looking at, say, an image of a fork, and helping it inform my building cladding system.
I don't see what we're offering here as "research", I see it as inspirational pictures.
you are missing my point, if there were just pictures up, then I would completely agree with you. Read the thread...there are also many people basically thinking for the person.
I personally hold the opinion that people learn best by doing for themselves. It is much harder to do this, to creatively come up with your own solution, but then again that is sorta what a design education is about.
well I am done with this, just wanted to get my point across that I do not have a problem with sharing pictures or similar projects...it's the sharing and giving of concrete ideas when someone is basically saying it is to hard for them to come up with this themselves.
enjoy the weekend.
speaking of support structures...we're here for you!!!
Thanks a whole lot everybody. Im not trying to win a competition here, honestly I could care less about the competition, my main concern is that I dont want to ruin my project lol. Im just trying to find new ways and ideas of structure. Yes they teach stuctures however it doesnt really reconcile with studio. Ive done research myself looking at different truss types and such but it seems I have something different here. Ive been interested in pin connections but I only see that it can be used as a horizontal member. I somehow want to celebrate the steel connect with the concrete without destroying the essense of the project. Im really looking for pictures of trusses but I cant find a good website that shows... I really want to see an inspirational photo to base on so I can do what Im wanting to do. I have cascading planes and like Hagia Sophia and architecture from Istanbul, all though my project is not symetrical... I have this idea of the structures spiraling around the entiring thing each structurally helping each other. I see how I am going to do this, but I dont know if its a truss or a tubalar connection. Thanks Steven and Liberty a lot, Im still looking for a new idea on trusses and what will look right. I think Im just to fond of my interior sketch up model lol.
Ive had acouple ideas running through my head but to me it doesnt seem aesthecticly pleasing. What I am trying to see is alternative ways to support a roof other than a plan oridinary truss. Thanks guys
Also to those saying I dont do research... I spent my entire day at the Phoenix Public library, not only looking at its roof:
http://www.atruscorp.com/images/upload_4438075958f74.jpg
Beautiful how the roof floats. Feels so nice, no ugly heavy trusses keeping the roof down. But cables and strut system with the use of hypostyle column arangements, beautiful.
Also I wanst there just looking at the roof lol... but I was there all day looking at structural steel and truss system books. I think I am having a hard time because I was stressed to show structural steel, I just dont know how to celebrate it with concrete.
I want to do a connection like this:
http://www.atruscorp.com/images/upload_4438092586267.jpg
However, Ive been told that this is not possible for vertical members cause of the amount of shear occuring at the pin connection.
Thanks again guys
an alternate thought. aquatic centers house pools as their primary function. there are structures that are basically pool shelters that are above ground - check out thin shelled air formed concrete structures . They work on a variety of scales and don't scream warehouse - more like spacehouse.
dive in and make a splash!
i am waiting for a vindpust response...but vado keep up the cheerleading, i expect to see an image in every post now...
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