I am interested in remodeling a small master bath but need a plan from which to work. Toward that end I am looking for an interior designer with their own 3D design software to consult with my wife and I to flesh out our visions into highly detailed drawings down to the tile and stud level from which work can commence. I anticipate the consultations to require a minimum of four hours of your time and perhaps longer. Payment will be made only upon succesful completion, delivery and acceptance of drawings in a soft form that may be zoomed in/out as needed to expose the finest details and overall visual effect. The drawings must be usable by proffesional and/or diy tradesman in the construction of the remodeled bathroom.
Location: Boulder
Compensation: $200 upon acceptance of interactive detailed schematic and user oriented, techn
This is a contract job.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 2813983860
It can be done in Revit - provided you are really good and fast - then he will ask for revisions, and then more revisions, and still more revisions -I've been down this road before - the quicker you do the revisions, the more changes they ask - these types of people just string you along - they never pay.
Figure minimum of three meetings. One to get acquanted, one to review drawings, one to review drawings after the inevitable changes. They'll be at his house. That's a good 1.5 to 2 hours in drive time alone. Leaves 2-2.5 hours for the "highly detailed drawings" to "expose the finest details". Even he admits it may take longer. Play your cards right and you could make upwards of $3.00 to $4.00 per hour for your time! That's assuming you don't have to spend every day there to supervise construction and run interference with the building department since, of course, any error by him (I take it to be a do it yourselfer) will be your fault since your drawings weren't "highly detailed" enough.
citizen is right. He'll find somebody. Hopefully no one reading this forum.
"Payment will be made only upon succesful completion, delivery and acceptance of drawings in a soft form that may be zoomed in/out as needed to expose the finest details and overall visual effect."
@Crave: If you want a legitimate designer, perhaps you should actually approach a local office to see what the norms are for contracting.
why do all of us think this is aimed at us? really, this is the kind of guy that's going to use quicken to do his will along with his taxes. why didn't he pay a high priced lawyer or accountant to do it? oh, yeah, because we've largely given those tasks over to much more self directed programs/people/etc.
he's not looking for anyone on this board - he's looking for someone who's a 'bathroom specialist' at floor and decor to do this on the side...
can't we just ignore this stuff? focus on the big picture...
Gregory Walker bug off. This is not for public. We are having some fun with an asshole who is offering 200 for a design that wil cost him 10,000 to build that's 2% in design fees if you win his contest and if they pay. Zero in on them not on us.
it's funny because I am actually working on a small master bathroom remodel for a friend/neighbor. we've had 1 meeting, where I measured the space and we sketched up a couple options...I've taken those sketches and put together two options, in sketchup. time spent to date, 5 hours and I'm probably a third of the way done.
The drawings must be usable by proffesional and/or diy tradesman in the construction of the remodeled bathroom.
The bulk of the liability is clearly not on the shoulders of the "architect" here.
Given that they could provide you with the construction drawings of the bathroom, this project could literally be done in 2.5 hours (plus 4 hours consulting) if you use the Kohler object database, Kraftmaid dabase and a tile supplier to supply you with tile samples. Key the trim and wall layers to different layers in SketchUp and render out a few color combinations... project over.
I mean, seriously, this could be done in SketchUp with minimal render work because you can even use real-world light files in Vray for Sketchup!
So, in total...
4 or 5 shit renders
an overhead layout diagram
a lighting diagram
two high resolution elevation renders
parts/specs/supplies list
Maybe I'm oversimplifying this but they're just asking for something that a contractor won't screw up and they clearly know they don't know how to communicate what they want.
Greg, I know what you're saying, and yeah I had a low moment and responded because I'm mad at the world. But for the sake of discussion, how is this *not* what an architect does or should do? This potential client is asking for drawings sufficient to build from. Isn't that exactly what differentiates us from decorators, and in states without a stamping act for interior designers, from them?
Or, again, just for argument, is the fact that they just want someone to "flesh out" their ideas a good argument for why $50/hour max is a justifiable price? Because to me they don't want SD drawings, they want something closer to shop drawings, and I think the going rate for in-house drafters in a fab shop are closer to $25 hourly rate, so closer to $75 billable.
Or whatever. I'm so tired of this conversation, yet I can't stop having it!
Also, I'll just add this as perspective: I just had a client pay a mural painter $1,500 to put an image of a comet on a bedroom wall. The image was MY design, so just the paint application was 7.5 times what this CL guy wants to pay for a design and CDs.
greg, i too replied to the craigslist post, and my fee was $6k. here's the thing, this is not some naive homeowner, this is someone with a decent level of knowledge and an expectation of a depth of detail, that makes it completely loathsome. i am not in the profession to educate asshats that know how to fuck designers over, just because they read a piece in the wall street journal that notes how the architecture/design professional is eating canned beans, and three day old bread just to make ends meet.
Or maybe *I* am, citizen, as I responded with my real name in my real email. I don't support attacking someone with anonymous snark. Snark, yes, but not anonymous snark. ;-)
I admire that, Donna, seriously. From your other posts, I doubt that your snark was a vicious attack. Probably a serious dressing-down, I'd expect, minus the foul and profane that some of our colleagues here indulge in :-)
I bid $180 to do the job. Just kidding. But seriously, I've been thinking about this all afternoon, $200 is not all that bad. I have a buddy who will do your entire SD package in Sketchup for a small house addition/remodel for $800-900 bucks.
Donna is right. The guy says "highly detailed drawings". Sounds like more than "fleshing our" their ideas. No matter how low the price, somebody is alway there stroking his chin and saying, "Hmmm, yeaaah, I think I could probably do it for that". No professional, licensed or designer, should take on a job like this for a fixed amount, particular when that amount wouldn't buy you a one hour consultation with the cheesiest lawyer in town.
jjr - i'm with you. guy doesn't know what he wants.
beta, donna, crave - also totally agree. price doesn't reflect the time and skill it probably needs. and there's no requirement, beta, for any of us to 'educate' him.
the sum total of what i've asked is this: why humiliate him for his ignorance? just ignore the post and move on. why is it any harder than that? (really - this isn't being asked to be done for free, it doesn't involve an architect looking for free help, nor does it involve innocent victims...)
Imagine the amount of pro-bono work that could have been accomplished for folks with a genuine need for design and construction services in the time we've all spent reading and writing about this one ill-fated craigslist post? *Gets back to work*
Gregory Walker c'mon, this guy and his wife know exactly what they want down to its studs, they are not ignorant and innocent blocks.
J. James R. is full of.., nonsense. What does he know about architectural delivery? Dude, when was the last time you made a penny on architectural work?
These peeps are giving public a clear message that architect's or designer's services are only worthy of couple hundred bucks and only if their design win the contest. And you are suggesting architectural community should ignore this absurdity?
Is he ignorant? No. Is he arrogant? Yes. He knows architects and designers are in need of work and he is humiliating them with his two percent, not the other way around.
This is very important that he and his wife should know people are serious about the time and resources invested in their profession and it has a value that is consistent with the values you try to write in your architectural business posts.
@crave, i just re-read your initial post after escaping the office and realized that you are not the person asking for the bathroom remodel! I totally glazed over that first sentence for no apparent reason! My earlier comment would be directed at the couple posting on craigslist who can't hear me, unless they somehow found this archinect discussion...
J. James R. is full of.., nonsense. What does he know about architectural delivery? Dude, when was the last time you made a penny on architectural work?
RFPs, architectural or not, are pretty universal across the business world. It's a who, what, where, when and how formula. Considering they are using another contractor you will not be supervising, that makes the process rather digestible down to the what and where. There's no scheduling, time-tracking, nothing.
It really isn't that hard to spec some sinks, pulls and tiles and throw them up in a pretty haphazard fashion that imitates whatever is the pissoir du jour gracing the latest pages of Architectural Digest.
Let's not act like designing a place in which people laterally shit in and on is the hardest thing in the world.
Also, when in doubt, sub, sub, sub and sub. You can make it pretty clear that you will not be designing the interior of cabinets or closets. I'm pretty sure since it's clear they are looking for an "interior designer," they're not expecting plumbing or wiring diagrams either.
"Toward that end I am looking for an interior designer with their own 3D design software to consult with my wife and I to flesh out our visions into highly detailed drawings down to the tile and stud level from which work can commence. "
You still make nonsense. They are asking "highly detailed drawings down to the tile and stud level from which work can commence."
Of course they will be looking at plumbing and electrical layout, cabinet design and details, enclosures, shelves, ventilation, heating to name a few. What did you think bathroom design scope is mr. knowitall?
Sub,sub, sub, sub. You sound like a seasoned tv trained designer.
Cortez, it's not whining about a small job. It's whining about an underpaid job. Jeez, I spent an hour walking through an antique store with a client helping him pick a few items, was paid $95 not in cash but with a chair on the floor I decided I wanted instead (he could claim the purchase, but not my fee), and we both walked away happy. There is no job too small, but if the client had offered to pay me with a chewed stick of gum for my hour of time and insight would it be fair to whine that I was being underpaid?
OK. So I just responded to the ad too, but really just to see if I can get this guys address. Then we should all pass the hat around, collect for a scholarship fund, and hire some student studying architecture in the boulder area to go throw a flaming bag of poo on this guys front door, photographic documentation included.
The point is, I want something positive to come of this. A: The student learns that we as a profession dont put up with idiots like this B: hopefully the prospective client gets the point. C: We get to post some cool pictures of thermally-excited fecal matter on archinect, and with great satisfaction. And hey, nobody gets really hurt.
Is this the sort of work we want to be chasing? I for one have no interest in designing master bathrooms, especially for peanuts. Hopefully some arch. student does the work, makes a couple bucks, and learns a few things at this guys expense.
I'm suprised that someone has an even lower opinion of interior designers than most architects I know
Design my master bath for $200
that's right...this guy is willing to pay a designer a whopping $200 to design his master bathroom but only after he and his wife accept your design!
http://boulder.craigslist.org/egr/2813983860.html
I am interested in remodeling a small master bath but need a plan from which to work. Toward that end I am looking for an interior designer with their own 3D design software to consult with my wife and I to flesh out our visions into highly detailed drawings down to the tile and stud level from which work can commence. I anticipate the consultations to require a minimum of four hours of your time and perhaps longer. Payment will be made only upon succesful completion, delivery and acceptance of drawings in a soft form that may be zoomed in/out as needed to expose the finest details and overall visual effect. The drawings must be usable by proffesional and/or diy tradesman in the construction of the remodeled bathroom.
Location: Boulder
Compensation: $200 upon acceptance of interactive detailed schematic and user oriented, techn
This is a contract job.
Principals only. Recruiters, please don't contact this job poster.
Please, no phone calls about this job!
Please do not contact job poster about other services, products or commercial interests.
PostingID: 2813983860
so MAX $50 an hour, if you do something they like the first time.
finish the design work, the presentation model, and the construction docs in that amount of time. bring your own software.
ass.
No...
It'd be interesting to see if he gets any takers. I'll bet he does.
It can be done in Revit - provided you are really good and fast - then he will ask for revisions, and then more revisions, and still more revisions -I've been down this road before - the quicker you do the revisions, the more changes they ask - these types of people just string you along - they never pay.
Sweet. The hits keep coming.
Figure minimum of three meetings. One to get acquanted, one to review drawings, one to review drawings after the inevitable changes. They'll be at his house. That's a good 1.5 to 2 hours in drive time alone. Leaves 2-2.5 hours for the "highly detailed drawings" to "expose the finest details". Even he admits it may take longer. Play your cards right and you could make upwards of $3.00 to $4.00 per hour for your time! That's assuming you don't have to spend every day there to supervise construction and run interference with the building department since, of course, any error by him (I take it to be a do it yourselfer) will be your fault since your drawings weren't "highly detailed" enough.
citizen is right. He'll find somebody. Hopefully no one reading this forum.
Do not do this:
"Payment will be made only upon succesful completion, delivery and acceptance of drawings in a soft form that may be zoomed in/out as needed to expose the finest details and overall visual effect."
@Crave: If you want a legitimate designer, perhaps you should actually approach a local office to see what the norms are for contracting.
I will regret this, but I just responded to the ad with the line "You're joking, right?". Couldn't resist.
Once upon a time....
Client - "It took you 8 hrs to do this? It should not take that long!"
Me - "Why don't YOU do it in less time!"
Client - "Oh, I don't know how to use AutoCAD!"
I just love how clients think they can come up with fees how much to pay YOU for YOUR time and intellect!
I'm also responding to this fucker!
I responded as a "taker". If he responds I will certainly post it on here?
I asked him to send me his wife's pictures taken in front of the existing tile and stud level for inspiration.
why do all of us think this is aimed at us? really, this is the kind of guy that's going to use quicken to do his will along with his taxes. why didn't he pay a high priced lawyer or accountant to do it? oh, yeah, because we've largely given those tasks over to much more self directed programs/people/etc.
he's not looking for anyone on this board - he's looking for someone who's a 'bathroom specialist' at floor and decor to do this on the side...
can't we just ignore this stuff? focus on the big picture...
This should be good....
and seriously - responding with all this hate - do any of you wonder why the public doesn't value us more???
Gregory Walker bug off. This is not for public. We are having some fun with an asshole who is offering 200 for a design that wil cost him 10,000 to build that's 2% in design fees if you win his contest and if they pay. Zero in on them not on us.
Greg, are you serious?
where is my argument flawed? you're assuming this *should* be done by a practicing architect. i'm saying it's not.
morality - of course that fee would be way too low for an architect. why is he an asshole for asking? he's not looking for an architect...
I have no desire to deal with a client like this.
I responded to him to confirm, the fee is $200. his reply, yes. and his email address is a schwab account...
the job is in boulder, co where the median home price is well over $400K
yeah...good luck getting an infterior designer to.....never mind....i'll keep that to myself....carry on.
it's funny because I am actually working on a small master bathroom remodel for a friend/neighbor. we've had 1 meeting, where I measured the space and we sketched up a couple options...I've taken those sketches and put together two options, in sketchup. time spent to date, 5 hours and I'm probably a third of the way done.
The drawings must be usable by proffesional and/or diy tradesman in the construction of the remodeled bathroom.
The bulk of the liability is clearly not on the shoulders of the "architect" here.
Given that they could provide you with the construction drawings of the bathroom, this project could literally be done in 2.5 hours (plus 4 hours consulting) if you use the Kohler object database, Kraftmaid dabase and a tile supplier to supply you with tile samples. Key the trim and wall layers to different layers in SketchUp and render out a few color combinations... project over.
I mean, seriously, this could be done in SketchUp with minimal render work because you can even use real-world light files in Vray for Sketchup!
So, in total...
4 or 5 shit renders
an overhead layout diagram
a lighting diagram
two high resolution elevation renders
parts/specs/supplies list
Maybe I'm oversimplifying this but they're just asking for something that a contractor won't screw up and they clearly know they don't know how to communicate what they want.
Greg, I know what you're saying, and yeah I had a low moment and responded because I'm mad at the world. But for the sake of discussion, how is this *not* what an architect does or should do? This potential client is asking for drawings sufficient to build from. Isn't that exactly what differentiates us from decorators, and in states without a stamping act for interior designers, from them?
Or, again, just for argument, is the fact that they just want someone to "flesh out" their ideas a good argument for why $50/hour max is a justifiable price? Because to me they don't want SD drawings, they want something closer to shop drawings, and I think the going rate for in-house drafters in a fab shop are closer to $25 hourly rate, so closer to $75 billable.
Or whatever. I'm so tired of this conversation, yet I can't stop having it!
Also, I'll just add this as perspective: I just had a client pay a mural painter $1,500 to put an image of a comet on a bedroom wall. The image was MY design, so just the paint application was 7.5 times what this CL guy wants to pay for a design and CDs.
Prediction:
Some "contractor" will give him some crude CAD sketches done on the free version of SketchUp by his grade school kid, gratis.
Then the "contractor" will give him a too-good to be true price, take the money and run.
greg, i too replied to the craigslist post, and my fee was $6k. here's the thing, this is not some naive homeowner, this is someone with a decent level of knowledge and an expectation of a depth of detail, that makes it completely loathsome. i am not in the profession to educate asshats that know how to fuck designers over, just because they read a piece in the wall street journal that notes how the architecture/design professional is eating canned beans, and three day old bread just to make ends meet.
That poor, unsuspecting bastard is gonna have to go into witness protection after all this!
Or maybe *I* am, citizen, as I responded with my real name in my real email. I don't support attacking someone with anonymous snark. Snark, yes, but not anonymous snark. ;-)
I admire that, Donna, seriously. From your other posts, I doubt that your snark was a vicious attack. Probably a serious dressing-down, I'd expect, minus the foul and profane that some of our colleagues here indulge in :-)
I bid $180 to do the job. Just kidding. But seriously, I've been thinking about this all afternoon, $200 is not all that bad. I have a buddy who will do your entire SD package in Sketchup for a small house addition/remodel for $800-900 bucks.
Donna is right. The guy says "highly detailed drawings". Sounds like more than "fleshing our" their ideas. No matter how low the price, somebody is alway there stroking his chin and saying, "Hmmm, yeaaah, I think I could probably do it for that". No professional, licensed or designer, should take on a job like this for a fixed amount, particular when that amount wouldn't buy you a one hour consultation with the cheesiest lawyer in town.
jjr - i'm with you. guy doesn't know what he wants.
beta, donna, crave - also totally agree. price doesn't reflect the time and skill it probably needs. and there's no requirement, beta, for any of us to 'educate' him.
the sum total of what i've asked is this: why humiliate him for his ignorance? just ignore the post and move on. why is it any harder than that? (really - this isn't being asked to be done for free, it doesn't involve an architect looking for free help, nor does it involve innocent victims...)
Imagine the amount of pro-bono work that could have been accomplished for folks with a genuine need for design and construction services in the time we've all spent reading and writing about this one ill-fated craigslist post? *Gets back to work*
Gregory Walker c'mon, this guy and his wife know exactly what they want down to its studs, they are not ignorant and innocent blocks.
J. James R. is full of.., nonsense. What does he know about architectural delivery? Dude, when was the last time you made a penny on architectural work?
These peeps are giving public a clear message that architect's or designer's services are only worthy of couple hundred bucks and only if their design win the contest. And you are suggesting architectural community should ignore this absurdity?
Is he ignorant? No. Is he arrogant? Yes. He knows architects and designers are in need of work and he is humiliating them with his two percent, not the other way around.
This is very important that he and his wife should know people are serious about the time and resources invested in their profession and it has a value that is consistent with the values you try to write in your architectural business posts.
I had to look up the word "asshat," but when I did, it was worth it.
@crave, i just re-read your initial post after escaping the office and realized that you are not the person asking for the bathroom remodel! I totally glazed over that first sentence for no apparent reason! My earlier comment would be directed at the couple posting on craigslist who can't hear me, unless they somehow found this archinect discussion...
Somehow fitting...
J. James R. is full of.., nonsense. What does he know about architectural delivery? Dude, when was the last time you made a penny on architectural work?
RFPs, architectural or not, are pretty universal across the business world. It's a who, what, where, when and how formula. Considering they are using another contractor you will not be supervising, that makes the process rather digestible down to the what and where. There's no scheduling, time-tracking, nothing.
It really isn't that hard to spec some sinks, pulls and tiles and throw them up in a pretty haphazard fashion that imitates whatever is the pissoir du jour gracing the latest pages of Architectural Digest.
Let's not act like designing a place in which people laterally shit in and on is the hardest thing in the world.
Also, when in doubt, sub, sub, sub and sub. You can make it pretty clear that you will not be designing the interior of cabinets or closets. I'm pretty sure since it's clear they are looking for an "interior designer," they're not expecting plumbing or wiring diagrams either.
"Toward that end I am looking for an interior designer with their own 3D design software to consult with my wife and I to flesh out our visions into highly detailed drawings down to the tile and stud level from which work can commence. "
You still make nonsense. They are asking "highly detailed drawings down to the tile and stud level from which work can commence."
Of course they will be looking at plumbing and electrical layout, cabinet design and details, enclosures, shelves, ventilation, heating to name a few. What did you think bathroom design scope is mr. knowitall?
Sub,sub, sub, sub. You sound like a seasoned tv trained designer.
I GOT THE JOB!!! Here's what I'm proposing for $200
LOL, crave. But I'm guessing two hundred bucks won't even get you a rental on that thing.
Lian, your post made me laugh.
OK, back to reading Complexity and Contradiction again. g'night.
Architects are whores, right? Reminds me of the old Winston Churchill anecdote.
Churchill: Madam, would you sleep with me for five million pounds?
Socialite: My goodness, Mr. Churchill… Well, I suppose… we would have to discuss terms, of course…
Churchill: Would you sleep with me for five pounds?
Socialite: Mr. Churchill, what kind of woman do you think I am?!
Churchill: We’ve already established that. Now we are haggling about the price.
Know your role, yo!
Unemployed architects whining about a small job. Smh.
While y'all are talking about this and complaining, I'm gonna get the job and make me a cool $200. :)
Cortez, it's not whining about a small job. It's whining about an underpaid job. Jeez, I spent an hour walking through an antique store with a client helping him pick a few items, was paid $95 not in cash but with a chair on the floor I decided I wanted instead (he could claim the purchase, but not my fee), and we both walked away happy. There is no job too small, but if the client had offered to pay me with a chewed stick of gum for my hour of time and insight would it be fair to whine that I was being underpaid?
what kind of gum?
OK. So I just responded to the ad too, but really just to see if I can get this guys address. Then we should all pass the hat around, collect for a scholarship fund, and hire some student studying architecture in the boulder area to go throw a flaming bag of poo on this guys front door, photographic documentation included.
The point is, I want something positive to come of this. A: The student learns that we as a profession dont put up with idiots like this B: hopefully the prospective client gets the point. C: We get to post some cool pictures of thermally-excited fecal matter on archinect, and with great satisfaction. And hey, nobody gets really hurt.
Is this the sort of work we want to be chasing? I for one have no interest in designing master bathrooms, especially for peanuts. Hopefully some arch. student does the work, makes a couple bucks, and learns a few things at this guys expense.
I'm suprised that someone has an even lower opinion of interior designers than most architects I know
The only thing worse than an inferior designer is an inferior decorator.
Peace77,
Why stop with poo? Wouldn't bullets make the point better?
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