Shubow keeps using one or two examples and LARGE, SWEEPING appeals to emotion (not to mention suspect "facts" based on anecdotes and generalizations) to grind his ax.
I have it on good authority from the Ohio Architects Board that I'll be a registered architect by the end of the day today. Now just refreshing my email every five minutes while I wait for formal notification and my license number.
The general interviewer etiquette is to understand that job searches are confidential, not to be discussed with the current employer - at least not until an offer has been extended and accepted. Unless the candidate specifically says that it's ok (or even preferred) that the interviewing firm contact the current employer as a reference, it pretty much does not happen. The firm that wants to "steal" that employee would be risking that chance by letting the current employer in on the fact that the employee is job hunting - which would give the current employer the chance to make a counteroffer. It also could endanger the current employee's position, thus upsetting the employee - which wouldn't be a good way to start a relationship with someone you're trying to hire.
That said, unless there's an explicit request for absolute silence, it's not too unusual for the hiring firm to do some checking up on the candidate with other mutual connections (former coworkers, for example), without necessarily asking the candidate's permission, especially if this is a local search. And of course it's a small world, and sometimes word of the employee's search could get back to the current employer through the grapevine.
SneakyPete, stop! No spreading Shubow! He's a dopey loudmouth with an agenda and he doesn't mind twisting people's words to support the point HE wants to make. I no longer click on ANY Forbes content specifically because of him! Grrrr.
Also, SneakyPete, now that I'm past my initial revulsion: I think Shubow is representative of typical architectural journalism by non-architects. As you said: sweeping generalizations, a few anecdotes, and stereotypes of Howard Roark used to represent how EVERY architect is. From inside the profession we all know that he's talking about a tiny percentage of the field. But Ayn Rand continues to wield power, sadly.
The thing is, when I read crap articles like Shubow's, they cumulatively make me a better consumer of media on topics about which I don't know much. He gets it SO wrong that it reinforces that every story I read is a biased view presented to make a point. So if I read about, for example, acupuncture or writing or dolphins, I know better how to decide if I'm getting a full, nuanced presentation or a passionate albeit stupidly incorrect view.
So thanks, Justin, for being so bad that I know what *not* to do! (Also, SneakyPete, if you ever accidentally imbibe poison and need to vomit, read his "About" page on Forbes. It will make you hurl, spectacularly.)
Haven't read the article but I found Donna's statement interesting, "I think Shubow is representative of typical architectural journalism by non-architects."
I'm hoping to clarify something that leaves a bad taste when reading that statement at first. First, I think this is a big problem with journalism itself in today's society where the success of a journalist is measured by how many click-bait articles they can post and generate the most heated comments. I don't think I can fix any of that.
I also think it is a failure of the architectural profession if we start to just put on earmuffs and blinders anytime an 'outsider' starts to comment on the profession.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Archinect's own editorial manager doesn't have any background in architecture yet she is quite a prominent voice on the site, and one that Donna interacts with quite regularly with the podcast. I wouldn't expect Donna to discount Amelia's writing just on the fact that she is an 'outsider' to the profession.
Perhaps the take away is that Amelia's writing isn't "typical journalism by non-architects." I would agree with that. I do disagree, however, that Shubow should simply be called out because he is a non-architect and wouldn't know what is really going on (and I don't think that is really Donna's point, if I'm allowed out on that limb). First, I think Shubow should be called out for being a terrible journalist (which is what I think Donna's intention really is). Then, hopefully the profession should also work on becoming more accessible and transparent so it is very apparent, even to outsiders who read Forbes, when there is terrible journalism written about the profession.
YAY!!!! David, you did it. Long path but now you've reached the goal. it's awesome, so good. Welcome to the fucking club!!!!
Also, I'm glad Archinect is back; it crashed on my computer the moment I read David's announcement, which i found hilarious. "Breaking the internet", I guess!
In total agreement with your last two sentences, Everyday Intern. Shubow's problem isn't that he's not an architect, it's that he is an ignoramus on the topic of architecture.
Edited to add: any single random question that Amelia has ever asked any architect in the last 18 months is a more nuanced, valuable conversation angle than any word Shubow has ever written.
Part of why I like to mention the Howard Roark stereotype when this topic comes up is he's exactly the image most people have of what an architect is. By identifying the fallacy face-on, it's easier to dispel. I suppose I should start saying "Howard Roark/FLW" stereotype because FLW is definitely the egocentric artiste that most people think of when they hear the word "architect".
Should have warned you, but forgot until seeing 5839's post...since you were registered in Ohio in 2015 you need to have the full requirement of 2015 CEUs, despite being an architect for only 9 days this calendar year. Doesn't make sense, and I sent emails in protest when the rule was changed in 2012 but had no success.
Anyways, that is a small detail to an otherwise great outcome. Good work.
Thanks, everybody... I promise to use my new powers for good, most of the time.
Ohio's CEU thing caught me off-guard as well, but luckily I've already gotten a few under my belt this year. Still about a half-dozen more to go between now and the end of the year.
Glad to know I wasn't off in my assessment. Just trying to make sure we don't appear to be a gated community only accepting of those who qualify based on a degree and license.
Apparently it's too complicated to prorate the required hours. Even for a half year / half credit requirement it would be better and seems possible administratively.
I was told that Ohio was just bringing their CEU requirements in line with other states around the country, but I never bothered to follow up on it. Not sure if other states have this requirement or not.
Many states waive the CEU requirement entirely for the first renewal period in which an initial license was obtained (initial license = license by testing, not by reciprocity), so there doesn't need to be any prorating.
Does anybody know how long it normally takes for the AIA to upgrade your membership from Associate to Architect once you email them the form? Will I get in trouble if I start using "David Cole, AIA" on my email signature, etc. in the meantime?
As President Elect of my local section of AIA, David, I'd say don't worry about it. Knock that "Assoc." right off your email sig! if anyone in Ohio complains I will go to bat for you.
My recollection is that there was money involved to upgrade, and that it took a couple weeks to get something in the mail confirming the upgrade. It took years - yes literally years - before the local chapter corrected my online listing from the associate page to the full member page, despite filling out the form and contacting the admin person from time to time.
I think the deal is that they don't increase your membership dues until after your next renewal period. I've already renewed my dues at the Associate rate for 2016, so presumably I won't have to send them any more money until this time next year.
Thanks, everybody... I keep expecting to get an email saying they made a mistake and that I actually need another 1000 IDP hours or something like that before they can give me a license.
A few years ago a close friend of mine got ordained as a priest in the Episcopal Church, and their requirements are about as stringent as becoming an architect: It involves a discernment process, extensive background checks and psychological exams, two years of seminary after an undergrad degree, followed by exams and a year-long stint as a deacon before you're actually ordained. But the ordination ceremony took place in a big cathedral with lots of pomp, followed by a lavish reception in the parish hall and a booze-soaked afterparty at a local pub.
Officially getting your architectural license is pretty anti-climactic by comparison; just a brief email with your license number and some documentation about CEU requirements and NCARB certification. You'd think we'd have some kind of ceremony at the local masonic lodge that involves robes and some chanting in Latin.
David, just last year some great young architects in Indiana pushed the AIA to have a newly licensed architects ceremony. The state used to do it every year but thanks to budget cuts stopped about ten years ago. So last September the state AIA put together a ceremony and invited everyone who had become newly licensed, initial license in Indiana, over the last ten years to come. We held it at the Indiana War Memorial in one of their fancy rooms (not this room, but similar
) and had snacks and a cellist, a couple speakers, then an AIA member who sits on the state licensing board had them all stand and recite the oath. It was really moving! Now we plan to do it annually, and it doesn't cost that much. I think it's important!
They also got a fancy copy of their Indiana license, not just the certificate that looks like the one on a dentist's wall but much fancier, signed and with a gold seal.
AIA Seattle and (I think) AIA New York each sent out a nice email toward the end of the year naming all the members who got licensed in 2015. I thought it was a nice gesture.
Nothing like that from AIA Cincinnati that I've seen... Our local chapter leaves much to be desired, IMO.
Be happy you have a "local" chapter of any thing. Most of the architecture related groups in my state (VA) are based out of Richmond (4 hours away) or the closest, Roanoke (1.5 hours away). Our local chapters are usually in Roanoke. Even their rotating location meetings never make it outside of the Roanoke area. To get from Roanoke to the extremes of the area they supposedly serve, it takes 4.75 hours.
Then, add in that the after hours gatherings are usually scheduled around 5:30 PM. It makes joining almost pointless.
Our state AIA chapter invites the newly licensed people to the annual awards dinner as guests (everybody else pays around $75 to attend) and has them come up to receive a certificate. But the list of newly licensed comes from the state's board minutes, which aren't public until 2 meetings (4 to 6 months) after the meeting they pertain to, so half the "newly licensed" people at the AIA dinner have been licensed for more than a year already before they get to have their ceremonial moment.
senator john, the AIA National is pushing for every state to combine all chapters into one statewide entity. So far Colorado and Indiana have done so already. Part of this new initiative will be to make sure people statewide are being served, which is likely going to mean more events happening in places besides the main city.
The local GBCI chapter was absorbed into a statewide entity. Nothing happens on the western end of the state anymore. I'm not a member, but they keep sending me emails.
Donna, does this mean the local chapters are going away, or is this something else? I could see the logic in states like New York or Washington where most of the architectural activity is heavily dominated by one city, but it could be problematic in a state like Ohio with multiple large cities.
The local chapters are now called Sections, and each Section has its own activities and discretionary budget, but everything falls under one non-profit entity of AIA Indiana.
It will be interesting to see how this AIA restructuring plays out in Ohio, where most people in Columbus are barely aware that Cincinnati even exists. It makes sense in a state like Seattle, where the AIA Seattle chapter and the AIA Washington state chapter are already pretty much one and the same, even sharing the same office space and annual awards program.
Regarding the fancy piece of paper, right now my interim certificate is a fairly plain-vanilla PDF that merely states I'm an architect in Ohio, but I should be getting the nice wall certificate in a few weeks after it's signed by the board at their next meeting.
Thread Central
Oh right, I did. It's freezing taking notes and holding onto a metal tape.
Shubow keeps using one or two examples and LARGE, SWEEPING appeals to emotion (not to mention suspect "facts" based on anecdotes and generalizations) to grind his ax.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/justinshubow/2015/01/06/architecture-continues-to-implode-more-insiders-admit-the-profession-is-failing/
I have it on good authority from the Ohio Architects Board that I'll be a registered architect by the end of the day today. Now just refreshing my email every five minutes while I wait for formal notification and my license number.
you did make it before xmas, congrats!
Santa and arch board of ohio are tight
The general interviewer etiquette is to understand that job searches are confidential, not to be discussed with the current employer - at least not until an offer has been extended and accepted. Unless the candidate specifically says that it's ok (or even preferred) that the interviewing firm contact the current employer as a reference, it pretty much does not happen. The firm that wants to "steal" that employee would be risking that chance by letting the current employer in on the fact that the employee is job hunting - which would give the current employer the chance to make a counteroffer. It also could endanger the current employee's position, thus upsetting the employee - which wouldn't be a good way to start a relationship with someone you're trying to hire.
That said, unless there's an explicit request for absolute silence, it's not too unusual for the hiring firm to do some checking up on the candidate with other mutual connections (former coworkers, for example), without necessarily asking the candidate's permission, especially if this is a local search. And of course it's a small world, and sometimes word of the employee's search could get back to the current employer through the grapevine.
SneakyPete, stop! No spreading Shubow! He's a dopey loudmouth with an agenda and he doesn't mind twisting people's words to support the point HE wants to make. I no longer click on ANY Forbes content specifically because of him! Grrrr.
Also, SneakyPete, now that I'm past my initial revulsion: I think Shubow is representative of typical architectural journalism by non-architects. As you said: sweeping generalizations, a few anecdotes, and stereotypes of Howard Roark used to represent how EVERY architect is. From inside the profession we all know that he's talking about a tiny percentage of the field. But Ayn Rand continues to wield power, sadly.
The thing is, when I read crap articles like Shubow's, they cumulatively make me a better consumer of media on topics about which I don't know much. He gets it SO wrong that it reinforces that every story I read is a biased view presented to make a point. So if I read about, for example, acupuncture or writing or dolphins, I know better how to decide if I'm getting a full, nuanced presentation or a passionate albeit stupidly incorrect view.
So thanks, Justin, for being so bad that I know what *not* to do! (Also, SneakyPete, if you ever accidentally imbibe poison and need to vomit, read his "About" page on Forbes. It will make you hurl, spectacularly.)
Congrats David!
It's official. I'M AN ARCHITECT!!!
congrats!
Congratulations!
Now get to work on those continuing ed units...
Haven't read the article but I found Donna's statement interesting, "I think Shubow is representative of typical architectural journalism by non-architects."
I'm hoping to clarify something that leaves a bad taste when reading that statement at first. First, I think this is a big problem with journalism itself in today's society where the success of a journalist is measured by how many click-bait articles they can post and generate the most heated comments. I don't think I can fix any of that.
I also think it is a failure of the architectural profession if we start to just put on earmuffs and blinders anytime an 'outsider' starts to comment on the profession.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Archinect's own editorial manager doesn't have any background in architecture yet she is quite a prominent voice on the site, and one that Donna interacts with quite regularly with the podcast. I wouldn't expect Donna to discount Amelia's writing just on the fact that she is an 'outsider' to the profession.
Perhaps the take away is that Amelia's writing isn't "typical journalism by non-architects." I would agree with that. I do disagree, however, that Shubow should simply be called out because he is a non-architect and wouldn't know what is really going on (and I don't think that is really Donna's point, if I'm allowed out on that limb). First, I think Shubow should be called out for being a terrible journalist (which is what I think Donna's intention really is). Then, hopefully the profession should also work on becoming more accessible and transparent so it is very apparent, even to outsiders who read Forbes, when there is terrible journalism written about the profession.
YAY!!!! David, you did it. Long path but now you've reached the goal. it's awesome, so good. Welcome to the fucking club!!!!
Also, I'm glad Archinect is back; it crashed on my computer the moment I read David's announcement, which i found hilarious. "Breaking the internet", I guess!
In total agreement with your last two sentences, Everyday Intern. Shubow's problem isn't that he's not an architect, it's that he is an ignoramus on the topic of architecture.
Edited to add: any single random question that Amelia has ever asked any architect in the last 18 months is a more nuanced, valuable conversation angle than any word Shubow has ever written.
Part of why I like to mention the Howard Roark stereotype when this topic comes up is he's exactly the image most people have of what an architect is. By identifying the fallacy face-on, it's easier to dispel. I suppose I should start saying "Howard Roark/FLW" stereotype because FLW is definitely the egocentric artiste that most people think of when they hear the word "architect".
Congratulations David.
Should have warned you, but forgot until seeing 5839's post...since you were registered in Ohio in 2015 you need to have the full requirement of 2015 CEUs, despite being an architect for only 9 days this calendar year. Doesn't make sense, and I sent emails in protest when the rule was changed in 2012 but had no success.
Anyways, that is a small detail to an otherwise great outcome. Good work.
Thanks, everybody... I promise to use my new powers for good, most of the time.
Ohio's CEU thing caught me off-guard as well, but luckily I've already gotten a few under my belt this year. Still about a half-dozen more to go between now and the end of the year.
Glad to know I wasn't off in my assessment. Just trying to make sure we don't appear to be a gated community only accepting of those who qualify based on a degree and license.
Apparently it's too complicated to prorate the required hours. Even for a half year / half credit requirement it would be better and seems possible administratively.
I was told that Ohio was just bringing their CEU requirements in line with other states around the country, but I never bothered to follow up on it. Not sure if other states have this requirement or not.
Many states waive the CEU requirement entirely for the first renewal period in which an initial license was obtained (initial license = license by testing, not by reciprocity), so there doesn't need to be any prorating.
Congrats! If you'd stayed in NY you'd have a 3-year respite from CEU learning...
Does anybody know how long it normally takes for the AIA to upgrade your membership from Associate to Architect once you email them the form? Will I get in trouble if I start using "David Cole, AIA" on my email signature, etc. in the meantime?
BTW, thanks for all the well-wishes, everybody... That's a giant, shit-flinging howler monkey finally off my back after 20 years.
As President Elect of my local section of AIA, David, I'd say don't worry about it. Knock that "Assoc." right off your email sig! if anyone in Ohio complains I will go to bat for you.
My recollection is that there was money involved to upgrade, and that it took a couple weeks to get something in the mail confirming the upgrade. It took years - yes literally years - before the local chapter corrected my online listing from the associate page to the full member page, despite filling out the form and contacting the admin person from time to time.
Woot!
..
I think the deal is that they don't increase your membership dues until after your next renewal period. I've already renewed my dues at the Associate rate for 2016, so presumably I won't have to send them any more money until this time next year.
Congrats David!
Congratulations David, You have earned the right as an Architect to consume vast amounts of libations over the Holidays!
don't worry David I can take care of the libations! finally 3 or more days off coming up, like the Canadians say - Fuckin' eh.
Good job David! Merry Christmas to all!
Thanks, everybody... I keep expecting to get an email saying they made a mistake and that I actually need another 1000 IDP hours or something like that before they can give me a license.
A few years ago a close friend of mine got ordained as a priest in the Episcopal Church, and their requirements are about as stringent as becoming an architect: It involves a discernment process, extensive background checks and psychological exams, two years of seminary after an undergrad degree, followed by exams and a year-long stint as a deacon before you're actually ordained. But the ordination ceremony took place in a big cathedral with lots of pomp, followed by a lavish reception in the parish hall and a booze-soaked afterparty at a local pub.
Officially getting your architectural license is pretty anti-climactic by comparison; just a brief email with your license number and some documentation about CEU requirements and NCARB certification. You'd think we'd have some kind of ceremony at the local masonic lodge that involves robes and some chanting in Latin.
The least they could do is give you a commission. And don't worry about missing the party, you'll be drinking regularly soon.
you could find the most recent R Balkins thread and say 'i'm an architect and you're not'. sort of adds credibility, right?
curtkram that is devilish but hilarious.
David, just last year some great young architects in Indiana pushed the AIA to have a newly licensed architects ceremony. The state used to do it every year but thanks to budget cuts stopped about ten years ago. So last September the state AIA put together a ceremony and invited everyone who had become newly licensed, initial license in Indiana, over the last ten years to come. We held it at the Indiana War Memorial in one of their fancy rooms (not this room, but similar
) and had snacks and a cellist, a couple speakers, then an AIA member who sits on the state licensing board had them all stand and recite the oath. It was really moving! Now we plan to do it annually, and it doesn't cost that much. I think it's important!
They also got a fancy copy of their Indiana license, not just the certificate that looks like the one on a dentist's wall but much fancier, signed and with a gold seal.
There's an oath?
AIA Seattle and (I think) AIA New York each sent out a nice email toward the end of the year naming all the members who got licensed in 2015. I thought it was a nice gesture.
Nothing like that from AIA Cincinnati that I've seen... Our local chapter leaves much to be desired, IMO.
congrats david!
Yes, there's a state oath. As I recall though it took us awhile to find where it was written down....
Be happy you have a "local" chapter of any thing. Most of the architecture related groups in my state (VA) are based out of Richmond (4 hours away) or the closest, Roanoke (1.5 hours away). Our local chapters are usually in Roanoke. Even their rotating location meetings never make it outside of the Roanoke area. To get from Roanoke to the extremes of the area they supposedly serve, it takes 4.75 hours.
Then, add in that the after hours gatherings are usually scheduled around 5:30 PM. It makes joining almost pointless.
Our state AIA chapter invites the newly licensed people to the annual awards dinner as guests (everybody else pays around $75 to attend) and has them come up to receive a certificate. But the list of newly licensed comes from the state's board minutes, which aren't public until 2 meetings (4 to 6 months) after the meeting they pertain to, so half the "newly licensed" people at the AIA dinner have been licensed for more than a year already before they get to have their ceremonial moment.
senator john, the AIA National is pushing for every state to combine all chapters into one statewide entity. So far Colorado and Indiana have done so already. Part of this new initiative will be to make sure people statewide are being served, which is likely going to mean more events happening in places besides the main city.
One can hope.
The local GBCI chapter was absorbed into a statewide entity. Nothing happens on the western end of the state anymore. I'm not a member, but they keep sending me emails.
Donna, does this mean the local chapters are going away, or is this something else? I could see the logic in states like New York or Washington where most of the architectural activity is heavily dominated by one city, but it could be problematic in a state like Ohio with multiple large cities.
There's an oath?
Yes, there is. But I can't repeat it here.
The local chapters are now called Sections, and each Section has its own activities and discretionary budget, but everything falls under one non-profit entity of AIA Indiana.
A fancy piece a paper would be nice, mine looks almost identical to the one for barbers
It will be interesting to see how this AIA restructuring plays out in Ohio, where most people in Columbus are barely aware that Cincinnati even exists. It makes sense in a state like Seattle, where the AIA Seattle chapter and the AIA Washington state chapter are already pretty much one and the same, even sharing the same office space and annual awards program.
Regarding the fancy piece of paper, right now my interim certificate is a fairly plain-vanilla PDF that merely states I'm an architect in Ohio, but I should be getting the nice wall certificate in a few weeks after it's signed by the board at their next meeting.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.