Superheavy: You said "As if stumbling around in the dark, and the light was turned on. It hurt my eyes at first, but i'm adjusting, seeing, with increasing depth of field." Can you communicate what that light is?
Janosh: You said "My advice: get your c's in the classes that are about mindless production, and a's in the classes where you are learning." It is so refreshing to hear someone admit that a lot of it IS MINDLESS PRODUCTION!!!!!!!! Thank You!!!!
Adso: You said "it takes students awhile to get used to what is basically an entirely different education system than what they grew up with, and the whole issue of grading is also different." I can understand a different grading system, but why is it different? (now what is different about it, but why the difference is there?) and what describes this new grading system? I cannot seem to figure it out -- so much mystery, light at the end of a tunnel (and even if u see the light, getting a C) ???
You also said: "Is precisely the reason why grading doesn't matter (in terms of your growth as a designer)." Isn't there a way to match grades with "growth as a designer" ? If grades do not matter, would you approve of the pass fail system? When financial aid, staying in school, etc. etc. depend on grades, but "grades do not matter" isn't something at odds here?
You also said "One of the tricks I like to pull is, a couple of class periods after giving a large assignment, to show up an hour late for class." Would you consider simply telling students that "my approval wasn't needed for every element of the project to advance." To me, showing up late can be misread....meaning....it can be read as something different than what you are ultimately trying to tell them.
You said: "Don't be discouraged with your C projects and never be satisfied with your A ones." YOU ROCK! May I quote you on this in my every day life? hehe
I greatly appreciate you writing such a long response. You have such good insight and I appreciate it!
the grades shouldn't be a motivation for school anywya, and if you aren't planning to continue with education later it really doesn't matter, as long as you are confident you did the good stuff. i mean FLW sucked at school and he did fine later on (there is always hope!)...but then he did have a vision of some sort... maybe you can borrow one from quondam or vado retro...
anyway dude, dinnae worry too much about it, i gurantee in 5 years it won't matter what your grades were at all. all kinds of shite to learn after graduating and in that world she be strictly pass or fail...
I think all grad level classes should be pass/fail ( except for the hard sciences..) However, here is a note to graders of architecture...please keep in mind that while you may think that grades should not be a student's motivation, and that they may be inconsequential to a student's future, think again...In countries where they didn't know that studio grading are purely subjective, grades will unfairly disadvantage a job candidate...,when applying for a second masters in other discipline, that undeserved B- in studio may also affect him/her.....I have also taught in the past, and have been forced to give out grades...my strategy has always been to give a little higher than I thought the project deserved...and I judged purely on the efficacy and relevance of the projects, not on some perception of potential vs output... I developed this strategy out of my frustration with the fact that every professor seemed to think I was an underperforming smart ass...
I guess I should clarify: grades are a necessary evil, and although I think the letter system is screwed up, it's not going to change anytime soon.
Grades ARE important for things like scholarships, progress towards graduation, making your parents happy, and applying to grad school.
Grades ARE NOT important as a means of evaluating your performance in a design studio. All that work, boiled down to a single digit, is preposterous.
It should be noted that in the past couple of years, there has been a lot of discussion in academia about the issue of grade inflation.What it boils down to is that there is pressure from the students to give out good grades, and from administration to keep them down. It's a screwed up system.
jesus christ puddles you gave me a lame oat? go to hell. see if i ever come to office hours again.
if you want my opinion, i always felt the notion of grades in studio was ludicrous. that realization comes not when you get a B that you feel was unjustified, but when you receive an A that you feel you didn't deserve. this happened to me a couple times in grad school. maybe i was just projecting somehow. anyway, i think it should always be pass/fail, and that people actually should fail. some of the worst studio projects i've ever seen in my life have been C's. i think architecture schools, as small institutions not always supported by generous grants from large companies the way a lot of science and engineering programs are, seem to be held hostage by the tuition of their students. it just becomes to easy to let someone skate through who doesn't really deserve it, then face up to the consequences of making someone confront their own misgivings, and possibly do them some actual good.
Some of the worst projects I've seen in my life were A's.
It pays to be a foreigner in an American school... if no one can understand whatever the hell you say in your crit, you get the big fat optimistic American Benefit Of The Doubt...
This was a really great discussion. My two cents, I was bitter at my 2nd year prof for giving me a C+ for my perfectly completed, basswood and plexi model and kick ass drawings. The guy next to me didn't even bother to finish and he got a B. It took me 2 years later to realize I had totally missed the objective of that particular project and thus deserved my C+. My school did not conduct exit interviews, though I wish it had. I think it would have helped me correct my thinking processes sooner than I did. And when I did, it was definitely like coming out of the darkness into blinding light.
just go to one of those schools that check your work off on a list.
Site analysis collages on 3 10"x10" boards? Check
Plan at 1/4" on 24x36 board with poche rendered? Check
ADA accessible toilet rooms, toilet count per code for use? Check
Section Detail at 1 1/2"? Check
Attendance and Participation? Check
Cutesy personalized titleblock derived from student's initials on all boards? Check
At my school, for studio work, everything is graded by the portfolio you hand in. The grading is done by ALL professors, exactly like portfolio reviews are done - sitting around a table for a couple days after the semester ends. The studio prof has no more 'say' than any other prof, except to suggest the general idea of the studio, and their impressions of their particular students.
It takes away the issue of how much certain profs like or dislike their students, which I think makes grading much more fair, if not more 'objective.'
Then again, speak to me next spring, and maybe my opinion will change.
Studio Grades
Superheavy: You said "As if stumbling around in the dark, and the light was turned on. It hurt my eyes at first, but i'm adjusting, seeing, with increasing depth of field." Can you communicate what that light is?
Janosh: You said "My advice: get your c's in the classes that are about mindless production, and a's in the classes where you are learning." It is so refreshing to hear someone admit that a lot of it IS MINDLESS PRODUCTION!!!!!!!! Thank You!!!!
Adso: You said "it takes students awhile to get used to what is basically an entirely different education system than what they grew up with, and the whole issue of grading is also different." I can understand a different grading system, but why is it different? (now what is different about it, but why the difference is there?) and what describes this new grading system? I cannot seem to figure it out -- so much mystery, light at the end of a tunnel (and even if u see the light, getting a C) ???
You also said: "Is precisely the reason why grading doesn't matter (in terms of your growth as a designer)." Isn't there a way to match grades with "growth as a designer" ? If grades do not matter, would you approve of the pass fail system? When financial aid, staying in school, etc. etc. depend on grades, but "grades do not matter" isn't something at odds here?
You also said "One of the tricks I like to pull is, a couple of class periods after giving a large assignment, to show up an hour late for class." Would you consider simply telling students that "my approval wasn't needed for every element of the project to advance." To me, showing up late can be misread....meaning....it can be read as something different than what you are ultimately trying to tell them.
You said: "Don't be discouraged with your C projects and never be satisfied with your A ones." YOU ROCK! May I quote you on this in my every day life? hehe
I greatly appreciate you writing such a long response. You have such good insight and I appreciate it!
totally correct ochana.
the grades shouldn't be a motivation for school anywya, and if you aren't planning to continue with education later it really doesn't matter, as long as you are confident you did the good stuff. i mean FLW sucked at school and he did fine later on (there is always hope!)...but then he did have a vision of some sort... maybe you can borrow one from quondam or vado retro...
anyway dude, dinnae worry too much about it, i gurantee in 5 years it won't matter what your grades were at all. all kinds of shite to learn after graduating and in that world she be strictly pass or fail...
I think all grad level classes should be pass/fail ( except for the hard sciences..) However, here is a note to graders of architecture...please keep in mind that while you may think that grades should not be a student's motivation, and that they may be inconsequential to a student's future, think again...In countries where they didn't know that studio grading are purely subjective, grades will unfairly disadvantage a job candidate...,when applying for a second masters in other discipline, that undeserved B- in studio may also affect him/her.....I have also taught in the past, and have been forced to give out grades...my strategy has always been to give a little higher than I thought the project deserved...and I judged purely on the efficacy and relevance of the projects, not on some perception of potential vs output... I developed this strategy out of my frustration with the fact that every professor seemed to think I was an underperforming smart ass...
nonarchitect, thank you for giving me some faith in the world
I guess I should clarify: grades are a necessary evil, and although I think the letter system is screwed up, it's not going to change anytime soon.
Grades ARE important for things like scholarships, progress towards graduation, making your parents happy, and applying to grad school.
Grades ARE NOT important as a means of evaluating your performance in a design studio. All that work, boiled down to a single digit, is preposterous.
It should be noted that in the past couple of years, there has been a lot of discussion in academia about the issue of grade inflation.What it boils down to is that there is pressure from the students to give out good grades, and from administration to keep them down. It's a screwed up system.
jesus christ puddles you gave me a lame oat? go to hell. see if i ever come to office hours again.
if you want my opinion, i always felt the notion of grades in studio was ludicrous. that realization comes not when you get a B that you feel was unjustified, but when you receive an A that you feel you didn't deserve. this happened to me a couple times in grad school. maybe i was just projecting somehow. anyway, i think it should always be pass/fail, and that people actually should fail. some of the worst studio projects i've ever seen in my life have been C's. i think architecture schools, as small institutions not always supported by generous grants from large companies the way a lot of science and engineering programs are, seem to be held hostage by the tuition of their students. it just becomes to easy to let someone skate through who doesn't really deserve it, then face up to the consequences of making someone confront their own misgivings, and possibly do them some actual good.
although, i'll admit, i'm not really that much of a hard ass, and would probably feel bad about failing a student. hmm....
Some of the worst projects I've seen in my life were A's.
It pays to be a foreigner in an American school... if no one can understand whatever the hell you say in your crit, you get the big fat optimistic American Benefit Of The Doubt...
hey everybody, a new box full of grades just arrived!
sweet...i got a yellow moon this semester
oh...and of course bossman still gets an oat
This was a really great discussion. My two cents, I was bitter at my 2nd year prof for giving me a C+ for my perfectly completed, basswood and plexi model and kick ass drawings. The guy next to me didn't even bother to finish and he got a B. It took me 2 years later to realize I had totally missed the objective of that particular project and thus deserved my C+. My school did not conduct exit interviews, though I wish it had. I think it would have helped me correct my thinking processes sooner than I did. And when I did, it was definitely like coming out of the darkness into blinding light.
just go to one of those schools that check your work off on a list.
Site analysis collages on 3 10"x10" boards? Check
Plan at 1/4" on 24x36 board with poche rendered? Check
ADA accessible toilet rooms, toilet count per code for use? Check
Section Detail at 1 1/2"? Check
Attendance and Participation? Check
Cutesy personalized titleblock derived from student's initials on all boards? Check
A+, well done.
At my school, for studio work, everything is graded by the portfolio you hand in. The grading is done by ALL professors, exactly like portfolio reviews are done - sitting around a table for a couple days after the semester ends. The studio prof has no more 'say' than any other prof, except to suggest the general idea of the studio, and their impressions of their particular students.
It takes away the issue of how much certain profs like or dislike their students, which I think makes grading much more fair, if not more 'objective.'
Then again, speak to me next spring, and maybe my opinion will change.
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