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Is anyone else broke even though employed?

trendzetter

Hello everyone I would like to introduce myself, I am an Architect in America employed part time on an as needed basis, I survived the cuts of 2008 and 2009 but currently work for reduced salary and hours.  My question is has anyone else experianced reduced hours and pay to the point you simply can not afford to work anymore for your current firm?  I have stayed loyal to my employer for keeping the few of us left working for the last couple years but this is going on year number three and frankly I cant afford this arrangement.  The randomness of the work precludes me from getting a part time job since I never know the schedule.  I am licensed but not active and really dont know anyone who would be in need of an Architect, most people I know are other Architects and designers in similar situations.  I have been looking at labor jobs within construction for a comparable salary but the paycheck will be steady.  Any advice?  Will this look bad on my future resume when this economy turns around (bosses / owners chime in)?  Some have told me that if you leave the profession now you wont be coming back because of the lack of demand for architects and the over supply of us going forward.  I have negative $6 in my bank account to last me the next two weeks.  Sorry to whine but I'm at my mental limits looking for advice.

 
Apr 15, 11 8:27 pm
beekay31

I was in a similar situation.  After the crash in '08, my firm moved everybody from salary to commission.  Work was often sparse.  I started picking up side jobs.  Neither would support me on their own, however.  Finally fall of '10 I was simply stopped being given work.  I was almost glad because it meant I would get a steady unemployment check I could count on.  I've been living off a mix of that and steady, but limited, contract work ever since.  There will be decisions to make this fall if things don't pick up.  I would say if you have a chance to pick up some construction work, you might as well.  Because there aren't many of those opportunities out there either.  I do some construction observation and talk to workers all the time and they're as desperate as the rest of us.  Unless you want direct experience, it might be better to look for a temporary job in another field.  Don't give a rip what some snooty architect thinks.  If you're at your rope's end (i.e. out of money), do what you gotta do. Anyone who looks down their nose at you for that can shove it. You don't want to work for them anyway if you have the choice.

Apr 15, 11 9:52 pm  · 
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Token AE

I think that the skills you learn in architecture can apply to a wide variety of fields. Quite frankly in industries outside of architecture, the skills you learn from architecture can be devastating when coupled with basic knowledge of that outside field.


For instance, the architecture skillset and some computer programming interest can make you a killer interface/ UI/ UX designer that blows many pure computer science people out of the water due to the fact that you know how people tend to interact with things and have an eye for design.


What else do you have interests in besides architecture? Is there an opportunity to leverage some of the critical thinking skills that you have learned from your architecture education and experience in those outside interests, potentially turning them into a short-term (yet full-time) career until things pick back up?

Apr 15, 11 10:22 pm  · 
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trendzetter

Thank You for your comments.  Beekay our situations sound very much alike.  My worry with construction is that a crew I'm familiar with will only need me through summer and TokenAE that sounds like quite the career leap.  I've been mulling it over and think I will demand a raise or quit.  Not in a threatening way but if denied a raise then turn in my resignation and not look back.  Heck, I have at least a summer to think about it while moving lumber piles and digging holes and I could finally get a tan.

Apr 15, 11 10:56 pm  · 
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Token AE

I didn't say go into interface design. I asked you to think about what interests you besides architecture, in hopes that you can temporarily leverage your architectural skill set in that field. Those other fields need people with the architectural mindset. Badly.


Too many people hit a rough patch in architecture and assume they have no other choice but to go into construction labor. If that is where your heart is, by all means go.


So my question remains: what interests you besides architecture? 

Apr 16, 11 7:24 am  · 
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Justin Ather Maud

The recovery will not mirror the crash; The faucet was abruptly shut off, but it will not "suddenly" be turned back on.  I like to characterize it as a fire drill, where approximately 60% of architects were asked to leave the building, but there will be no "all clear," where all of those who exited will be asked back.  Those asked back will be in small, incremental groups, which will also include recent (read: cheap) graduates.  With the most recent software skills.

My advice would be to find something else altogether.  Do you have any hobbies that you might leverage into full-time employment?

Apr 16, 11 10:13 am  · 
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quizzical

"Will this look bad on my future resume when this economy turns around (bosses / owners chime in)?"

 

I can speak only for our firm, but we "get" what's happening there. Sure, when we start hiring again, we'll apply an objective standard to the candidates who present themselves. Those with relevant recent experience naturally are likely to have an advantage, but I also presume there will be a high price-tag associated with getting those candidates to make a move. As the economy improves, it's going to be a challenge to get the "cost / benefit" equation figured out.

 

However, given the vast number of individuals who have been under-employed and un-employed for so long, the pool of those with recent  relevant office experience - who also are willing to move at a reasonable cost - will disappear fairly quickly. Then, firms will start coming to grips with those who have soft spots in their resumes. I tend to believe that those who have filled-in with construction-related or design-related positions will have a distinct advantage over those who flipped burgers or pursued some other work unrelated to the field.

Apr 16, 11 12:03 pm  · 
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I'll second quiz's observations: our last two hires (one FT and one short term) have been people who had been laid off from their last positions. In both cases, it was just a lack of work at those firms.
There are actually 2-3 other variables to consider - from about 5 years or less, the judgmental curve is much less severe. Meaning, I don't think most smart firms would hold it against younger staff if they were talented but caught in a wrong place, wrong time. As quiz points out, what you do with your time in that case will say a lot about your sheer drive and initiative, something most quality firms are looking at no matter whether times are good or bad. If you're a bit older - PM or associate principal level, getting laid off is a whole other matter. IMHO, it's going to be really, really difficult to find a way back into a firm because the perception's going to be that you didn't have the 'value' to a firm that most people expect at that level. For example, if you're a principal who has been laid off, the perception's going to be (fair or not) that you couldn't bring in the work (even in a tough climate, someone's got to). A lot of firms would look to poach talent from competing firms before hiring someone who got the axe in that case.

Apr 16, 11 1:29 pm  · 
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mdler

go on unemployment if you need $$$

Apr 17, 11 12:53 am  · 
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trendzetter

You can go on unemployment, I dont take handouts.  I am a professional, not a widget maker pulling a lever.  I have self respect why dont you get some.

Apr 17, 11 11:02 pm  · 
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are you Swick?

trendzetter, are you serious? mdler's trying to help. You can't just start a post by whining about having "negative $6" in your bank account, and then insult someone who is trying to help you eat. 

Apr 17, 11 11:12 pm  · 
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trendzetter

Urging anyone to go on unemployment is not help.  I have credit, and I will work even if not in Architecture. 

Apr 17, 11 11:16 pm  · 
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Token AE

I respect your determination to keep working- with that said, I think going on unemployment benefits when you genuinely need it and abusing unemployment benefits to avoid work are two drastically different things. The program exists for a reason, but it is ultimately your choice to use it or not and no one can fault you in either case.


You asked for help. Several of us have tried to give it to you in as best a way as we can given the limitations of this media and the fact that we do not know you personally.


So far, our perception of your choices are:


1. Construction - No indication on your part whether you are genuinely interested in this. This is probably a field you shouldn't enter with a halfassed attitude, because quite frankly, it is easily detectable. 

2. Unemployment - You prefer to avoid this. All well and good.

3. Outside Hobbies - You apparently have none, are dodging the question, and/or solely define yourself through architecture.


#2 is out. You need to help us help you figure out #1 and #3.

Apr 17, 11 11:38 pm  · 
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elinor

seriously?  would you not take 'handouts' from your health insurer either, if you get sick or need surgery?  how about payouts from your car insurance company if you get into a wreck? or, let's see...maybe all those kids who lose their parents should say no to those life insurance 'handouts'...

crazy.  with a capital c.

Apr 18, 11 12:11 am  · 
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sameolddoctor

agree with everyone, but mdler's comments "take unemployment if you want to make $$$" makes him sound like a loser.

Apr 18, 11 1:34 am  · 
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One should probably note here that while the construction industry is growing within expectations, that growth is largely attributed to depressed prices which are now going up. Add on top of that, construction jobs are still largely in decline.

And for those of you wishing to fall back on to retail, that's largely being supported by tax cuts and 'creative' accounting. And despite 9 months of good sales, most of the jobs added are relatively low paying-- even for retail's standards-- and temporary.

Architecture is the intersection of the consumer spending and construction economies-- simply put, if architecture is bad then construction workers are out of work, Starbucks are not being built and no one is going to the doctor. Non-professional, non-blue-collar "pink-collar" industries make up about 70% of the total economy with retail sales making up more than half of the total economy.

And just like this nagging, biting article I posted penned by Andrés Duany... large portions of the United States are fundamentally broken. Aside from the sustainability aspects, 13% of all housing in the United States is empty.

Unlike Sweden or the UK, their housing markets are volatile for the exact opposite reason [being critical shortages]. In either a shortage or a surplus, this leads to low demand because there are far fewer people on the streets. The primary difference between the two is whether those people exists in the first place.

In the US' case, this trend is largely irreversible-- it's impossible to depress property values without massive increases in crime, it's certainly not feasible to make an area instantly more attractive and it's certainly not possible to do either with ever-shrinking general funds.

This certainly explains why New York City (and the State of New York) are continuing to gain jobs, is building a massive amount of multi-unit housing and its millionaire's tax has only scared away Rush Limbaugh. It's not all rosey-- Brooklyn only gained 40,000 people in 10 years time.



Apr 18, 11 3:39 am  · 
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jbushkey

I wish the banksters had the same attitude as trendzetter.  How the F does anyone deserve a bonus when your company would be bankrupt without tax payers propping it up?

Apr 18, 11 10:48 pm  · 
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Le Courvoisier

Working with a professor right now (helping him with his book and TA for his class) pays the bills but little besides that. New Orleans is still in a relative hiring freeze for architecture, so I've been looking elsewhere (I'm going to Norway this summer and have been looking there, but I think by not being eligible for the Erasmus or Leonardo scholarships it is putting me at the back of the line).

Heck, I'm not opposed to working at Lowe's or Home Depot for the summer, as long as they overlook the fact that I will be in Norway for three weeks in June (seems to be a non-starter for internships here too even though I'm available immediately).

Apr 19, 11 5:43 pm  · 
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mantaray

I cannot imagine thinking that living on credit is better than collecting unemployment.  

 

Although I suppose it's that same kind of creative financial decision-making that would lead one to the point where there is only $6 in one's bank account, and one only then perceives the need for help.

Apr 21, 11 12:40 am  · 
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jbushkey

trendzetter is taking the kind of attitude that used to lead to great success.  They are being independent, taking responsibility, and hopefully brain storming and networking like mad.

The downside is this is a very bad economy.  If (s)he is unable to generate some income the reward will be excessive bank fees and ruined credit for at least 7 years.

Apr 21, 11 8:05 pm  · 
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shellarchitect

what is wrong with taking unemployment benefits if they are needed?  We all pay into the system for a reason.

Apr 21, 11 9:30 pm  · 
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