I could never justify the additional expense. But that is just me.

I can offer an opinion on Wustl - I graduated from their undergrad 4+2 program three years ago.

As far as an undergraduate architecture program, I think it provided a really excellent range architectural experience. It stressed a lot of theory but wasn't so artsy-fartsy to allow impossible designs. However, it had a very design-heavy theoretical bent and I came out of school with zero construction knowledge. But I've been able to learn those aspects of the profession while working for the past few years. And at the same time, you will never learn design anywhere but in school whereas you can always learn building systems and structures in the real world.

I've found that people do know the architecture program at WashU and do regard it highly. Also, I feel like the overall University setting was a really excellent school. Its caliber also continues to rise. The year I graduated, incoming students were much smarter and more capable. The school itself does a really great job of marketing itself as "Harvard of the Midwest" and I think its #11 in the US News ranks at this point. I do think that WashU is just as high quality a school as Cornell or Rice.

I think you also need to factor in what sort of person you are... how much effort you're willing to put into the process. There is a certain sort of person who can work their ass off and learn what they need to learn and do what they need to do, regardless of their environment. The difference in schools is only how much you will be supported by the curriculum, the professors, etc., versus how much you will need to support yourself. If you are self-driven, then go to UofA, come out of school without any debt, and you'll be able to take any job you want anywhere you want, because you're not worrying about paying off your school loans. If you feel you need to be supported by your school a bit more, it'll cost you.

well put rationalist. a hard working ethic is a large part of what makes a person good at anything. if this is you, i'd save my money and put your nose to the grindstone.

Cornell is going through many changes right now... Mohsen Mostafavi is the new dean and the quality of the lectures and visiting professors has improved... my first year there was great... ofcourse the work like in most architecture schools is over the top in terms of the hours that you spend... literally an all nighter every other day... and year or two into my education i think it wasn't going through very good times... but it is now picking up and catching up with the times... if i were you i would visit [if that is possible] and check out who is teaching [although it changes ofcourse]... i know its expensive... i've got sweet loans now... but to make this short: it is in transition for the better... not to mention that it is ranked among the top ten and has almost always remained in the top five... at the undergraduate level... but i would also recommend cooper union... it is in NYC... while in nyc you can easily benefit from COLUMBIA, PRATT, PARSONS, etc... you can use the libraries as well as attend the LECTURES... etc...if you would like more information from me about the cornell... hit me up....

I agree that you need a good work ethic, but I also think it's a given. Depends on where you go to school, but in my undergrad (Univ. of Florida - which I highly recommend you look into) you couldn't make it through without working your ass off. Their weed out process was so intense, that unless you were 110% dedicated, you'd drop out, and out of the 110% motivated folks, only 50% of those made it through.

I think any very good school with a solid reputation will make you work your ass off, or you'll be kicked/drop out. Could be wrong, but I've never met a slacker from a decent school.

I good friend of mine went to UofA and I believe she liked it a lot. Keep asking around. Give them a call and ask them 'how good are you? How good are your professors? Etc.'. They'll most likely be honest. Cornell would tell you they are the best, of course, and that may or may not be true.

Is it worth the money? No way. Do the 4+2(or 2.5-3 in some cases) as Mr. Bloggs suggests. If you have to pay for it yourself, forget it. If you have family money, then...well, you probably wouldn't be asking.

I'd say it is not worth it. U of A is a good school, (I think, isn't it?). I have a friend in the grad program at Cornell right now that I went to undergrad with and he says Cornell can't hold a candle to the design education he got at the state school we went to. Anyways, a "great school" is not going to be better than a "good school" in terms of getting a job or higher salary.
Consider your environment and how it will effect your learning, if you are dying to get away from mum and pop or are bored stiff with AZ and are shying away from U of A, then that's a decent reason. Architecture schoool is pretty immersing, it takes over and will change how you percieve everything, will AZ let you do that?
I am sure you will be happy with your choice regardless, just know that debt takes a long time to pay off and it will crunch your lifestyle after school. Good luck.

I thought the UofA 5-year BArch was a very good program that gave me a well-rounded education - but that was 15 years ago. From what I've heard the school is significantly better now.

The other thing UA gave me was a professional degree, which meant I could choose to go to grad school or not, since you can get licensed with a BArch. So save your money in undergrad school (when generally expanding your horizons is a major part of the education - and your social life is more pressing) then spend a chunk of money on a 2-year MArch at a school that offers a specialization that interests you. Or don't, since with the BArch further school is optional.

thanks everyone for your input.

i did attend the cornell summer architecture program for six weeks so i have somewhat a feel of what cornell architecture is like.i really enjoyed the theoretical aspects of curriculum. i hope other schools provide that kind of curriculum. the students there tell me since architecture is a competitive field, you want to get the best kind of education you can get so that you can be well off in the field. to what extent is a good education? i don't know.

some of you were suggesting me to do the 4+2. some schools like cornell offer the 5+1 program, which is good but definitely expensive.

i think rice is cheaper and offers more financial aid and still provides an awesome education.

do you think someone coming out from cornell will fare better than someone who comes out of UA? or does success really lean on talent or what the person does?

those folks are telling you that because they have to justify spending the cash. Granted, Cornell has a superb reputation, but it's your work that will make the real difference. Never forget that.

No school can 'make' talent, only foster it's development. The real variable is you.

exactly, trace.

What I meant about work ethic is that the less of it you have, the better a school you need to go to to become successful. The more of it you have, the less it matters where you go, because you'll do well wherever you are. But the less of it you have, the more, er, 'fostering' you'll need a school to do for you.

I think that it's rather obvious that Cooper Union is the top option here- perfect combination of prestige and price. = )

success comes from talent, production, and connections. You'll have to work harder for those at UofA, unless you want to stay in AZ your whole life. If that's the case, then you'll make decent local connections there. Otherwise the name does, unfortunately, mean something. You've got to decide how much it means for YOU.

justin, why worry about it if you don't know if you're in or not? but look, wether you pay or borrow money or get scholarships, the reason to go to cornell is not so much the architecture school per se. the program is good... you can probably do just as well at cooper and arizona. the reason would be the fact that you're at a major research university. it's up to you wether or not you ever leave rand hall.

i do the majority of interviewing for my company. when reviewing resumes, i look at the school but i'm more interested in evidence of what the candidate can do

in an interview, the school is almost irrelevant. what really matters is the physical evidence the candidate brings to the interview and the person sitting in the room with me

a good school can teach you a lot and give you an edge. whether that's worth 40k per year is hard to say. a cornell degree by itself won't get you a job at our firm. a uofa degree won't hurt you at our firm

what do you want ... what do you need ... if you can get that without spending the money, don't spend the money

if you are from arizona and thats why you go for free then you might consider that itll be easier to get an internship or summer job going to u of a because youll have better contacts with professors and alumni in your hometown. if you go to school in the north east making professional contacts will be harder unless you want to stay in new york of someplace during the summer. if it were me, id save my money for grad school and keep my eye on the prize for five years so i get into the gsd or something. better yet, u of a for five years then go to cornell and be a first year ta and go to grad school for free too. by then youll have saved enough for a downpayment on the dream house you can afford to design yourself or the firm you want to start. both of which will get you further than getting a barch from cornell and make you the smartest architect i on the planent

if there may be one more voice adding to the chorus...i would definitely choose the free education at the U of A (god, tucson must be infinitely better than upstate new york! but just my opinion) for a b.arch and then if you want get a 1-yr post-prof masters at some other school.

i say "some other school" because when you are working for yourself your boss won't care where you went to school, so why not go somewhere truly interesting? like somewhere not in the US? strange how so few US architects have studied elsewhere...

i would hire an ETH graduate over a harvard graduate any day of the week, if the schooling was the only concern

first, you have to decide if this is going to cost you anything or if your parents are shouldering the burden. it sounds from your initial post that your parents will pay for part or all of your college. second, be aware that the job market is not the beginning and the end of things. just keep that in mind.

Going to Cornell might help you get your first job, but after that, its going to be what you can do that will move you ahead, not your college. Think what you could do with the $200,000 you will save. You could develop your first project right out of school. You could go to grad school. You could work and get licensed, and then start your own firm. Just to throw in my two cents, I went to Cornell for two years, then transferred to Carnegie Mellon. I thought CMU was 10 times better than Cornell. I had great grades at Cornell, so it wasn't the work. CMU made me think. It was much harder than Cornell, but I think I came out with a better education. Be aware, it snows in early October in Ithaca!

Ithaca is pretty depressing, urban legend is there are many suicides in the gorges there.

Justin - what kind of study abroad opportunities are available with each of your schools? I think many would agree that a lengthy in-depth travel abroad did much to broaden the education and enlighten the soul. I did a semester where I lived in a foreign city (but not in a dorm!) I wouldn't have been satisfied with anything less, like a program where I traveled every few weeks to a different place.

absolutely.

If you are in Arizona, why not Arizona State....I have heard good things about the school and know they have resources out the wazzuu.

Doesn't Arizona State rank in the top schools for best looking people? My school was like 80% guys, i'd rethink that decision in hindsight. Seriously though, going to any big name school isn't about a better education its about networking and making contacts. Remember, its not what you know its who you know.
That being said you should go to AU for an undergraduate degree and get a masters in architecture when you better understand where you want to focus in. Possibly then you look into "big name" school and network with people who feel the same way you do.

hey thanks everyone for your input!

hey archie! why do you think cmu is better than cornell? just curious

strawbeary, yeah ithaca does snow a lot but I believe the stories about people jumping off into the gorges is a myth. cornell does have a rome program which is really neat, but i know a lot of other schools have study abroad programs. i'd love to study in another country.

i guess i'm choosing u of a over asu because u of a is better academically and less of a party school. it has more of a university feeling and i might be getting sick of phoenix...lol

It's been a long time since I was in school, so things may have changed, but Cornell has a strong program in that the stylistically they all produce the same stuff. If you like the style, and it is 'you' then I guess it is ok. When I went there, I did the kind of design that I knew the prof's wanted, but I wasn't happy with it. So I got good grades, but felt unsure about how I wanted to design. Things my fellow students were working on I thought was great, but they were getting D's. So at CMU, I had to think for myself. I actually had crits where one prof thought my designs were great, and the other thought they were awful. So I had to decide what I thought, and then have strong enough convictions and design skills to make it good.
A free education is awfully hard to pass up. If the school is decent, and you make the most of it, long term, it won't make much of a difference where you go from a profession standpoint. Might make a difference in the girlfriend you meet who becomes your wife, the best friend for life you make freshman year, the place you work for a summer internship, but if you have talent and drive you will be successful no matter what school you go to.

syracuse is a great architectural education. but your parents have a point, the university isn't the same calibre as cornell or rice. on the other hand, if you go to a 5-year you'll only have a handfull of credit to fill outside of the school of architecture. i'd suggest applying and seeing how much money everyone gives you if you get in. i went to syracuse on a pretty good deal...and it served me well enough to afford me an even better deal on graduate school.

One issue to consider is the resources that each school has. This will play a big role in your education. I am guesing that the average professor at Cornell or Rice is stronger than the average professor at U of A. CMU is certainly a great school and one to consider. I've talked to you in the past and now that I am at Rice, I couldn't be happier. I think going to ASU and Rice will have given two different educations which is a bonus. They seem to compliment each other well.

Think about if you want to work on the west or east coast because connections are everything in architecture. Will Cornell make you a better architect? No, but it might give you more oppurtunities. It will also give you different lecture series and jurors for your crits. Here at Rice I have gotten some incredible crits that I wouldn't have gotten if I wasn't here.

As far as ASU being a party school, keep in mind that you will be very involved in architecture which means very little partying. I personally find Tucson uninspiring but know people that like it there. U of A is still pretty intent on partying though, but all colleges are. I think the biggest difference is that ASU is a 4+2 school and U of A is a five year program. Probably the best example of recent architects from U of A is Ibarra Rosano and Richard & Bauer architects.

what makes an architecture school good anyway? who decides which school is the best and on what grounds? what is the difference between the "best schools" and all others? I'm in my third year at Wentworth, which is undergoing major changes in the BArch program right now--all for the better. it's hardly even the same school it was my first year. one of my professors who went to MIT said the faculty here is much better than MIT because they are less arrogant but just as intelligent, and therefore more personable. some of my classmates compare us to the GSD, which I think is ridiculous for any number of reasons (not the least of which is the comparison between grad and undergrad schools). Still, I have no idea what differences exist between Wentworth and even Northeastern next door, let alone Cooper Union, etc. I have been extremely impressed by the faculty and program here so far, but I wonder how it differs from programs elsewhere.

Joe B - you mean that UF's work was stylistically similar in the late 90s? I'd say 'no'. There were certainly things that we all did that were similar, like snazzy ink on mylar, stucco/model paste bases, etc., but that's more because we saw it. Many professors were recent Columbia grads, so the teachings were similar (and no doubt, had a positive impact into many of us being accepted there with nice offers).

But I wouldn't say the styles were the same. If anything, I'd say they were very diverse. My personal tastes brought me in one direction (more towards Hadid/CHimmelblau stuff) were others were doing 100% rectilinear modernism. That was one of the best things (and I assume it still is) about UF - the diversity of the work.

Simply because none of the professors had a personal agenda (like Columbia, UCLA, Harvard, etc.), they allowed their students the freedom to experiment with what they 'liked'.

I remember one class, with Nichole Weideman (if you are out there, a special thanks), where she asked us to find an architect whose representational style was similar to our personal designs. We worked on complimenting our 'style' with drawings, renderings, model materials, etc., that worked.
So we had a diversity of not only design, but of representation. It was a superb class, and possibly the most influential of my education.


FLM - I went to Wentworth for my first year of undergrad, then transferred to UF.

Trace, really? when was that? I've got to admit, I wasn't immensily impressed or excited by the program here half way through my first year. It was very technical-based, but then at the beginning of second semester, they held a meeting with everyone in the program to announce that they were basically scrapping the old one and implimenting a new one. The past two years have been so much better and much more design-oriented. I can't think of more than five faculty members even who were here two years ago. Not that the old faculty was necessarily bad, but that the new faculty is much more in step with the direction the school is heading. I feel like it's really coming into its own right now.

FrankLloydMike when did you go to UF?

Wentworth needs to do is get off the architectural fence and take some sort of stance on where it wants to be within the architectural dialogue, the last alumni survey I got was just spitting out the same crap I heard when I drank the Kool-Aide 5 years ago... hopefully Glen has started making some worthwhile changes besides including computers in the curriculum, which other school have been doing for 8+ years.

And they gotta send a letter to the President about bad campus architecture kinda like UVA professors did.

I was there AGES ago, in '92 I think. Wow, makes me look (and feel) old! It was so technical then. No design classes for the first year, etc. The attitude was bad, too. My roommates would complain about how Syracuse were a bunch of useless punks and did not understand a building, then they'd (my classmates) draft stairs for 3 days.

I did have a few good professors. I can't say that I enjoyed the 99 to 1 guy/girl ratio, either, but Boston was great.

No, I honestly don't recall more than a few folks from there and never kept in touch with anyone.

I think the most important thing about an architecture school is pedagogy.

They all vary widely in terms of both subjects emphasized and in manner of learning. On the other hand, professors come and go in every school, brand-name professors are not necessarily good teachers, and brand-name schools do not get *necessarily* get you any further in life. Also, loans and grants are available. (Personally, for me it ended up being cheaper to go to CMU than it was to go to CalPolySLO, thanks to grant money.)

Think about what you're interested in. Here are some good categories to mull over and they will really help you find your place. What interests you?
--sustainability/building performance
--theory
--history/historic preservation
--cross-disciplinary design (doing some GD, some landscape, art, human-computer interfacing, etc. etc)
--digital design
--professional practice
--or even, non-arch subjects: history, math, literature... are you interested in pursuing a minor or double-major (can't do this with a B. Arch but you could with a B.A.)

And in terms of learning: how do you learn best?
--by yourself, quietly focusing on a problem
--in a team
--when your different subjects of study overlap, or when they are seperate and distinct
--etcetera.

Once you have narrowed down your interests, I think we could have a much better discussion of a school that would fit you best.

Also, visiting lecturers will vary by school, especially according to fad... and as far as I can tell from everyone I've talked to about this, things like "I will make better business contacts in a brand-name school" or "I will be more hireable with a brand-name degree" are simply not true.

You might also consider the built environment of the location of the school itself, however. This is kind of more important, I feel.

You are not really talking about $40K, but $200K at the end of 5 years, possibly more if you do not have grants or aids, plus that nice foreign exchange program most folks go once or twice in their undergrad. $200K is alot of money.

There is always some personal bias when giving ideas (than advice...) on these types of things, so do take it with a grain of salt. I will say all these given my experience with students from ASU (not UA) and Cornell and on a general whole:

1. Money and Education cannot be commensurably measured on the same scale, so your question is not valid on whether it is worth it or not. If and however, you are buying a brand (like Cornell, Harvard, Princeton, Yale...etc), then it is measurable. If you can afford it, I say go for it.

2. Curriculums by their accreditations cannot be vastly different (the climate will surely be :)), so answer is again no, they cannot and should not be very different for the same B.Arch. That said, the cultural climate is different for Scottsdale and Ithaca. And same again for UA and Cornell. You will meet different peers, teachers and architectural philosophies, pursuing different aims and trajectories. My take? Personally I think that you will have a more competitive class at Cornell overall, which may or may not be a good thing. But I say if you can afford it, go swim with the sharks for a while since the stakes are often higher in a private school. May make you a better swimmer but don't lose your humanity.

3. Cornell education will not make you a better architect. It will be you that will make yourself a good architect. So it is same in both places on this. That said, different cultural climates will open different eyes. So I think if you are alert and motivated, these universities offer similar resources at the undergraduate level.

4. Wage will not vary differently and again, you may find the Cornell brand opening more doors to 'pedigree' graduate programs and 'pedigree' offices. But if you find yourself working in AZ, then maybe UA has a better name in town than elsewhere.

5. Believe it or not, people do implicitly take note of what school you go to. Personally, I went to three (I am attending the third). One is good only in the architecture world, one is good in the entire world, and the last is probably as good as in the whole world, minus the recent controversy and plus the liberal bend. But at the end of the day, John Doe is John Doe without the good work making him somebody. So if you put out good work, no one cares what school you go to as long as you are educated along a more or less socially scripted way. BTW, I respect an autodidact alot more than someone who is trained in this scripted way because it takes alot more to be a successful independent learner than someone forced to go to class for credits. So yes, the name is important, but never critical. It depends on what you can get out for yourself.

If I am in your shoes (and I am NOT), I choose Cooper Union (and assuming I am an extrovert and someone who thrives in NYC). Take classes in NYU and move between circles. NY is the place to be as it is the intellectual capitol of this country. You will find many philosophers, scientists, artists, and experts of every type thriving there. It is near to good universities and if effort is to be put in, you can get to places very quickly. But I also know that CU is not a school that people choose to get in so just take this as my private 'rant'!

My final personal take? I would save the $200K overall, ask my folks to invest on my behalf. Take my undergraduate education and then see what I want to do, and hopefully, this money goes somewhere when I need it. Your folks might be happier too :)


Hope this helps,

wow these are great comments!!!! they really help me a lot.

hmm i have a confession to make and i feel a little guilty about it. I applied early decision to cornell before I posted this forum...so if in case I do get in, yeah well I might get stuck paying 200K a year. But the thing is I really do enjoy the school (having attended the summer program..hoping that it's similar to the real experience) and my parents can afford it..even though it is a very expensive school.

mainly my parents really wanted me to apply early. they're paying...2/3's of the whole tuition...that's quite generous i think. i also applied financial aid so hopefully that might help but i doubt it, since i'm the first child but i do have other siblings who will be attending college soon.

so since cornell is so competitive to get into, i'm also putting my hopes on other schools like rice and cooper union and cmu and if not, U of A because they are far cheaper (maybe not cmu and rice). so i guess for now my only choice is to wait on cornell's decision.

unless i withdraw right now...should I?

another thing is will i regret not having to apply to cornell? from what I've learned from a lot of cornell graduates, they seemed to have enjoyed the experience a lot. but i guess this can apply to most schools.


also it's kind of hard knowing what kind of education i want because before attending the cornell summer program, i had my own views but they were changed at cornell and i discovered new things i really enjoyed learning..i love theory, sustainability, creative thinking (who doesn't?), vernacular architecture, modern principles, i hate post modernism, i don't understand contemporary architecture but it looks interesting (like zaha hadid's work),

i usually work best by both by myself and in a team. i like studios where you don't really have privacy because you can always engage with those around you but it can be quite distracting sometimes haha.

i guess another reason why cornell might fit is because since the school has a 65% attrition rate, its vast array of courses can be a safety net for me to fall back on in case i do drop out of architecture. but i hope i don't.

i love cooper union and rice because they are cheaper but since i already applied early decision without knowing all of this, i'm just really waiting on cornell's decision.

but thank you so much!!! this is GREAT!

oh and i also do love to teach architecture one day (i probably got it from my dad, who is a professor). i think it'd be fun to be able to both teach architecture and practice...get a good balance between theory and reality.

what are the requirements? and how's the teaching field in architecture? is it competitive or is their a shortage of architecture professors? they probably earn a lot more than starting architects...but i'm assuming most architecture professors first need to be licensed.

architecture professors do not have to be liscensed to teach. The pay depends on the school and the job.

You don't have to be licensed to teach. Schools are starting, however, to become more strict about requiring a master's to teach (it is very often required for tenure).

As for expense, I don't really see why people consider it ultimately important, frankly. I am saddled with quite a lot of student loan debt, and recently (a few years out of school) I am seeing more and more and more every single day how much I value the amazing education I got, and every penny feels worth it. School is expensive. Period. It's also made somehow manageable. You're going to have to deal with paying for it no matter what, and until Congress steps in, everyone except trust fund babies are pretty much equally screwed, as far as I've seen. And once again, you may get a better fin.aid. package at a private school than a public, so just give it a shot.

I personally have great respect for Cornell's program. One of my most respected bosses went there. When I visited it, personally, there was one thing I really didn't like right off the bat and one thing that seemed good, maybe better than CMU. It's kind of a personal decision. Given the things you say you are interested in, it'd probably be a good fit. It's good to think of alternative careers, as well, and how the University as a whole might help with that. I'd say you're on the right path. Just wait and see, now. :)

p.s. honestly I've really never heard anything about Rice's program. I've never met a single graduate. Did you consider RISD?

If you pay the extra money to go to a “better” school you will have more opportunities to work for “better” offices which means that you will get to work longer hours for less money. Being a “better” architect means never asking “better than what?”

P.S. go to Rice if you are worried about money. I know a lot of smart people from Cornell but Rice is pretty cool too and it’s free so there you go.

go to cornell. the program is not only one of the best in the world, but the relationships you build with the incredibly connected faculty will help you immensely when you apply for the top jobs and the elite grad schools.
as for the money, you're investing in yourself and your future, don't downplay the importance and worth of that. besides, gov. education loans are the lowest interest, best terms, most flexible re-payment loans you will ever see in your life, so take advantage of that now.
i'm not insinuating that UofA is inferior, only that cornell is superior in every aspect you list as important to you. like others have said, in the end it comes down to you, your talent and your drive. you can be succesfull anywhere.

yeah, if your folks are paying, and you liked cornell, then it's going to be a good choice.

I'd still recommend looking at UF, and Gainesville is about the best college town you can imagine (and I grew up in a college town). I only know of one or two friends that didn't get accepted and offers from Ivy's for grad school (only know three that took on the debt, though).

rice is free?!?!?!

Did you not say that Cornell is a 5 years B.Arch? That would mean that the safety net is not a net at all...If you want safety net, the better way is a 4+2 school. I don't know how soon they will make you decide on your major but finding this out is important. Telling you to declare your major after second year is no safety net at all.

There are two different routes you can take with regards to teaching. One is the M.Arch or some master's degree way (MAUD..etc) and the other is the PhD way. Both ways are intensely competitive and there are jobs in the latter that the former cannot fill, and possibly vice versa though less so. No, professors don't make alot more than starting architects. You can trust me on this. If you want to make money, practice is still better despite the normative rantings you hear all day. But if you enjoy teaching and thus performance everyday, then it is a good career. Not many can balance academic responsibilities and practice evenly so my suggestion is to keep that in view but don't be discouraged if that comes up to be impossible.

I don't think you should withdraw your EA application at all. Cornell is a good school and if folks are paying, go for it. I have friends who love it and who hates it but that's just like anything and every place on earth. If you don't think it fits you, transfer out.

BE...

I thought he meant safety net as in, if he figures out after a couple years that arch. isn't for him, there are still other decent majors in the university that he can slide down into. As opposed to a school known for arch. but nothing else, I guess. It's not a bad thing to consider. I kind of feel like, if you're concerned you might drop out, then...

Whatever you end up choosing, just go with it and don't think about what if.....

Sounds like you want to go to Cornell. You know yourself better than any of us!

am, I didn't go to UF. I go to Wentworth. sorry for the confusion. Pixelwhore, one thing I sort of like about it here is that there is no real design philosophy forced on you. I'm not sure if that's what you mean exactly, but I like that the professors are all very knowledgable and personably, but let you do what you want design-wise as long as you can justify it. Anyway, I couldn't agree more about the bad architecture. I'm on student government and we actually drafted a resolution about that (which will hopefully be well-received by the new president unlike the old one). The Faculty Senate just endorsed it unanimously.