hey justin did you recently go to summer college at cornell? in summer 2005?
if so i think i remember you... well perhaps...

Also: I briefly saw a comment on the Cornell Grad program... Cornell Architecture is well known [as of late or atleast after Rowe and Ungers left] for its Undergrad... not grad

rebelliousz_poet! yes i did attend summer college at cornell. who are you?? what's your name?

cornell's grad program is new. i think a lot of cornell undergrads take the 1 year grad (where the 5th and 1st year of March combine). i know my TA did that.

wow these comments are really fantastic. i guess i'll leave it up to the decision and if not cornell, i will be as satisfied with the other schools i'm applying to. thanks!

justin... if you had Justin as your TA... then we have never met [maybe]... but i was on a couple of the reviews this summer... also i don't think many students take advantage of the overlap program... but there is always a student who does... stay well...

hey! no sandra yum was my TA. i'm asian...5'3...anyways, you probably did crit me so thanks! i loved the crits

sandy didn't participate in the overlap program [the 5+1...] we both graduated at the same from undergrad... but i remember your model... the foldable one... you all were given a photograph to analyze... and colin and sandy both sat on the floor to unfold your model and to play with it... we all had big smiles on our faces... i remember you big time...

justin, michaella was kind enough to forward this discussion to me...don't worry so much. just pick where you really want to go. between you and me, i can tell where you really want to go...it'll be fine...ENJOY college.

wow thanks michaella! it's nice to talk to see you on archinect sandy.

I kicked around the studio of the Uof A...an number of years ago...before, Liberty. I never did get a degree from there but
have many friends with degrees from the U of A. One thing I
can certainly say is most everyone is gone from my days which
is good and bad. Wish you had the chance to Meet and learn
from Dominque Bonamour, or Doug McNeil, Kirby Lockard. It was
a good education. I just couldn't put up with the administrative
crap, being broke and really wanting to strike out. However with
all that said, a number of my friends and classmates are at the helm
of their own firms , so we must have been learning something worthwhile.
Tucson is way better than Phoenix for a life......The Mountains are
a great inspiration, and I think your closer to the Sea of Cortez...which is a bonus in my book.

Good Luck...just don't mention my name and you should get along
with the adminsitration.....btw...it is snooker

hey everyone! wow time really flies as I look back at this thread.

well, the notification came in and i was accepted early into
Cornell University School of architecture. It's pricey but I think it will be worth my time. I'm excited =)

thanks everyone!

justin, i did undergrad and MARCH at a non famous but good school (in Canada) and thought it was more than enough when i was looking for work. i had no problem keeping up with architects from bartlett, AA, etc, and my classmates (from the same no-name school) have worked for OMA and other biggies. in many ways it truly does come down to ambition and work more than anything.

however, i recently started doing phd at university of tokyo, where many of the japanese starchitects teach or pass through, and i gotta say the doors that open because i am going to an ivy league (well, the japanese version anyway) changes things entirely. i have access to offices, jobs, and commissions that i would not have had without going to uoft. it is quiet shocking really how much of a difference the school's connections make ( and the network of alumni is amazing )...

my ambitions are different than for a grad student and i don't regret going to the school i could afford ( i have no debt ), but when i see the young folk in my studio and the opportunities available to them because of WHERE they studied (not WHAT; most schools are the same on that accnt) I would absolutely advise you to go to the school with the ambitious students and the ambitious professors. the education will maybe not be that different but the culture and the opportunities are totally worth it...

if you are worried about getting a job, the most important thing is quality of your work. one would hope intelligent people recognize other intelligent people, regardless of information on paper.
go to a school with the best enviroment.
i left risd for cooper; regardless of cirriculum (they are both acredited) the change from providence to manhattan is huge, and the resources and quality of people here is superior

i, like a poster above graduated from wash u with a BA in arch and i thought it was one of the best decisions i ever made. but it had more to do with the university itself than any result of the arch program. its good, but when you have the chance to study at a top university you make it happen. if the overall education is important to you then i would certainly advocate cornell or wustl.
now here is where i contradict myself....

if you're major concern is an architectural education and finding the best school to make you into the best practicing architect possible then don't waste your money on a top school. if this is the case your post graduate study will be much more important in getting you to your goals. spend the money then.

in the end, its all about what you want. places like wustl and cornell offer some of the best education around, arch included but if that's not your concern take the free ride, be the best in your class and spend your money on your masters.

whats the difference between undergrad and grad? and why is the grad more important than the undergrad?

wouldn't someone with an undergrad arch degree be better off than someone with only a grad arch degree because the undergrad had more years in an architectural education than a grad arch did?

undergrad is a bachelor degree, grad is a masters, so the latter student will have spent more years being educated.

some undergrad degrees are professional and some aren't. if you don't do a professional degree with the undergrad (usually 5 years) you will HAVE to do grad school and get your professional degree that way (meaning, usually, 6+ years, split into 4 for the first bit and 2+ for the last). most do the latter (i think...?), often stepping up to a better school than in undergrad (if one has the money or scholarship-ability), which is what the folks above are saying. do 4 years at a good school then spend the money when it most counts; and when the number of years of tuition is smaller. there is a certain logic to it if money is tight.

grad school is i think the place where most architects really begin to sort out what they want to do and is probably the most important bit of education for that reason. it is also the time when you will be doing the work that you wanna keep in a portfolio...so is a muy importante time.

justin-

if you go to cornell for undergrad you will have more than enough opportunity to develop your skills as a designer and build a portfolio. coming out of that program, you won't necessarily need to go to grad school and, arguably, most grad schools would be a waste of time (with several obvious exceptions). so, i think there is a very good chance that your undergraduate education will be more more important than grad school. plus, a lot of schools that focus on the 5-year program lump their graduate students and undergrads together after the undergraduate 4th year. thesis graduates and undergraduates are treated as equals. the implication is that they are equal degrees. again, arguable.
regardless, professional 5-year degrees are much different that BS Arch degrees, and i think you'll find this upcoming segment of you education, ultimately, to be the most formative.

justin:

again it depends on what you want. an overall education, a B arch degree, and/or a professional degree. if you know you want to get your master eventually i would tell you that if money is an issue, spend it on grad school, not undergrad. if you're not interested in grad school and are more interested in a B Arch then that's a specific program that few good schools offer. or if you know you want to study architecture and you want that overall education go to the cornell's or wustl's of the world.

and when i said that grad is more important than undergrad...again it depends what you want. as i said i went to wustl and studied arch after working for awhile i did a year at sci_arc for my MArch before withdrawing for a better/different option. and while i wouldn't trade my education in for anything going to a top 10 school didn't and won't necessarily make me or you a better architect. some fellow students of mine went to very average schools for their undergrad degree and were great designers, many didn't even study architecture.

so again it really depends on where you see yourself and what you want to get out of the whole experience..

now that I am out of school for several years and STILL have a s&^%load of debt, I see that people in the profession can be just as successful regardless of where they went to school. Knowing what I know now, if I could have gone to school for FREE, I would, as long as I liked the environment....

justin,

since you applied early admission you HAVE to go, right? i think you'll be really happy there. if you decide to go to grad school, i think you'll be pleased with the doors that the cornell diploma opens, and the same for the professional world. debt sucks, but so does always wondering what would have happened if you had gone to the best school possible...

well said...

"debt sucks, but so does always wondering what would have happened if you had gone to the best school possible..."

I think you have to consider not only what the school will give you but your personality as well. I don't think it's as much about just being hard-working, but about whether you know how to play the game in terms of interviewing, connections, etc. I learned from working (you're probably too young to really know yourself this well at this point) that I'm actually not so good at "playing the game".

I am a hard worker. But if you go to University of Arizona, you will have to prove from employers that you are amazing on your resume. If you go to Cornell, you will have to prove it as well, but you might get a small leap of faith from employers even if you're not the smoothest, chummiest person you could be. That's something to consider.

On the other hand, don't forget that the connections that you make are not just with faculty/teachers or Ivy league classmates and their parents/friends, etc. A lot of the connections you make is with the people around you - your classmates, friends, etc. I know people that went to large state schools that had much better connections than me by the time they graduated simply because of the sheer number of people they knew.

If you think you'll thrive socially at a large school, go to U of A. If you think you need personalized attention, and you know for yourself you can't learn in large groups (some people really benefit from a smaller, intimate setting) go to Cornell. This is not really about how hard you work (you will have to work hard at Cornell too, because it's not peaches and cream just because you got in - you do have to prove yourself when you're there, I guarantee it) but about your personality. The people I know that did well at large schools are not necessarily harder workers, but sometimes I find they are more social and have found a way to use the size of their school to their advantage.

bettyloo,

You are 4 years and 3 months too late.

This person should be in his 4th year by now.

unless the person dropped out,,, where are you sashimi?

haha, i was reading this thread for a while, then noticed the date, and then the final date.

yes, sashimi, where are you? there is a lot of depth to that question.