My personal pick would be Boston, it's a vibrant city that isn't too big, has incredible history, is very picturesque, is full of the most intellegent people on the planet, is on the ocean and near the mtns. to the north, has a great sports scene, and is full of hot co-eds....
As a former resident of Boston, I'd have to agree that there are lots to like about Boston. For one, it's a wonderful place to be a student. However, there's also lots to dislike. Just to name a few:
1. As with most sucessful metro areas, affordable housing is a huge problem.
2. The city's public transporation system is inadequate as many jobs are no longer located in the urban core, requiring very long commutes for many residents.
3. Racial and income segregation remains a problem. Boston is known as a wealthy town for blue-blooded elitists. There's a certain truth to that.
Chicago is a great place, but my pick would have to be Louisville, KY. All the benefits of a small city, none of the disadvantages of a large city, and full of the friendliest people in the world. Just wish there was more and better call for architects.
i'd like to know more opinions since i'm planning to move; currently in LA (which i don't like much). where's there a lot of work for architects? i've also lived in nyc (great) but expensive. i grew up near boston, which i don't care for too much although it's an okay city.
I hear ya benny, I thought I was going to love LA. Mountina biking (but no bike lanes), snowboarding (but still 2.5 hours away), and lotsa great architecture (ok, there is some of that). But I really did not like it, it's over priced, pretentious teenagers, etc., etc.
I like Denver so far. Great opportunities, it's small and relatively affordable, and easy to get around. And there are bike lanes everywhere and a ski train to take you to the mountains (about 3 blocks from my front door!).
I also liked Portland and Seattle, but considering it's been overcast here for 3 days (very unusual), not sure I could deal with it all year. But if you can, you won't find a better place. No idea about work.
benny and mbr, could you elaborate on your dislike of LA. I am planning to move there from the midwest. Have some time there (a week at a time), and have enjoyed what I saw. The people appear friendly, and there seems to be a lot to do to keep oneself occupied
omigod we hated denver. lived there for over 10 years. i can't believe i survived 360 days a year of blazing sun. plus all the smog, sports bars, yuppies, lack of cultural diversity, suvs, lack of greenery...
different strokes for different folks i guess, but you really couldn't pay me to live there again. i'm happier poor here than i ever was rich there.
I agree about the greenery in Denver, I do miss that. But compared to LA, it's great. As for the yuppy thing, we are all yuppies on here, like it or not, but compared to the pretentious qualities of LA, I find it as 'normal' as my hick home town.
I moved to LA for UCLA, from CT (undergrad at UF, so 4 years there). I thought I'd love it. But the lack of accessible areas to ride bikes, walk around, etc., and the need to drive long distances all the time (or, at least it seemed like it) sucked. People have been a lot more friendly everywhere else I lived.
My list:
- Too expensive - you can never dream of owning a house on an architects salary unless you commute for 2 hours one way. I don't think any of my classmates will last too much longer there, it's just impractical.
- Not really any different from any other city as far as night life, just more of it. But driving into HWood on a weekend night takes patience and courage (my poor car).
- Had a lot of fun at the beaches, but they are pretty disgusting (think brown stained legs).
- Too competitive for architecture. You've got people moving there for school, for the celeb architects, etc. There is simply too many 'cutting edge' designers, willing to work for nothing.
- Dirty. So damn dirty. Part of it is the desert dirt, part of it is the cars.
- One of the worst places I can imagine to ever raise a family.
Basically, I just didn't like it. If I had a million or two, it would have been nice. The nice neighborhoods are really nice, but the sub 750k neighborhoods go downhill fast.
As for the sun, it's the same here as it was in LA. I agree it's a little too much, but I've lived at each corner of the US (Portland, CT, Boston, Providence, Virginia, Florida, LA), and no place is perfect. New England is gorgeous, but the humidity, poison ivy, and little bugs (think lymes disease) suck, Portland was gorgeous, but the continual overcast/gray is oppressive.
I would never recommend LA to anyone and don't know anyone that would, having lived there.
holla formanaught! quality of life in canada is much better than the yanks will ever know. national healthcare, more polite culture, and a better public education system.
and the amount of rain is a myth in seattle. it actually rains more in nyc. last summer, i believe, it rained breifly for 2 days. in the winter, i'd take rain in a moderate climate any day over the brutal bone chilling cold of most places.
I've seen that stats, it was/is one of my favs. But the problem is the overcast, not the inches of prec. I know it's kind of subjective as to how oppressive it is, right? Like 'you can deal with the clouds because it's so beautiful'? I've heard that from someone that lives here, but wants to move back eventually. I was there for the one week of sunny weather years ago, and it was gorgeous. Mt. Rainier is absolute breathtaking.
I agree with Boston. The housing cost does suck, and public transit shuts down at 1 am. That's really annoying. But as far as the city, I love it. It's such a nice place to walk around. Today was absolutely spectacular along the Charles River. If I had money, there would be a lot of stuff to do as well. Luckily, it is a nice place if you don't have money too (if you like walking around for fun). Moving to Philly in mid August for school and I'm going to miss Boston. Philly is dirty, but I'm too stupid to get in GSD and stay here. Also, lots of cute Japanese exchange students. I'm not what some would call an Asiophile, but they seem to like my blonde hair and blue eyes, and I like thier adorable-ness so it works out. AWWW Tomoko.
A different take on LA... I'm from San Diego, so I thought the last place I would ever want to live was LA, but here I am. I went to UCLA for a year right out of high school and hated Westwood (didn't know anything else about LA), so I moved to France for school. I lived in Paris, then NY for a bit, and back to LA. Came back for SCI-Arc, but also because I realized there were certain things I missed about it when I was gone -
1. Low cost of living. It has definitely gone up since I moved back, but the salaries have gone up some as well. I still think LA is one of the best places I've been for good cheap and amazingly diverse food. You can see some decent bands for 5 or 10 bucks, and you spend less money because you aren't tempted by all the cool stores you walk to on the way home, cause there aren't any and you probably aren't walking anyway. Leading to reason #2...
2. Diversity. I won't argue LA is not geographically segregated, and the fact that it's so big doesn't help. BUT, LA is I think the most diverse city on the planet in terms of number of languages spoken, religions practiced, etc. If you are into trying different food, going to cultural museums or street fairs, taking a class on meditation or a foreign language, or just browsing in neighborhood supermarkets, LA is heaven. Hang out at the IKEA in Burbank for a while and listen to the number of languages spoken and you'll see what I mean. I have also lived in London and quite a bit in Europe and Asia, and I think part of the reason I feel comfortable here is the diversity. I visited Seattle last year and liked a lot of things about it (tried kayaking for the first time...), but I did feel really wierd because everywhere I went most of the people were white (I'm white). Maybe I was being overly sensitive, don't know. Just my take on it. This is one of the reasons I think LA would actually not be a bad place to raise kids. Also, I found it interesting that people in other countries are fascinated by LA. Esp. architects, writers, etc. (I studied philosophy and went to a very diverse campus in Paris where about 1/2 the students were French & the rest were a mixture of immigrants from other parts of Europe & Africa) They see the economy, diversity and culture of LA as indicative of the future of development on the planet. I'm not saying it's all good, and there is a lot to be critical about, here as anywhere, but it is interesting. Anyone who has lived here for a while and likes it will tell you it's partly because you have the option of doing your own thing or exploring, and there's so much to explore.
3. We bought a house here. Contrary to what mbr says, you CAN buy a house here. We bought ours 4 years ago, so I guess it was before the market went crazy, and it's tiny and we gutted the whole thing ourselves... but we have a huge yard in a diverse(yep) neighborhood with lots of families(no kids yet), convenient freeway access, etc. It was less than $150K. At this point I don't know where we would want to move to that we would be able to buy a house, and we could in LA. My husband is an architect too and we have never made much money. Moving on to 4...
4. It's easy to live here. This may be the "lazy" person's take on life, but after living in a lot of dense and sometimes foreign cities, LA is just so fucking convenient. If you like to build things, buy huge pieces of used furniture to cart around, garden(we grow our own vegetables), or grocery shop at 11 at night, you can do it in LA. Yes, it's true we are homebodies. We don't go out much, and we work at home now, so we don't really deal with traffic. We have a lot of good friends that live in our neighborhood. In that sense, maybe it's like living anywhere, if you settle down it's pretty comfortable.
5. Jobs. True, we went to school locally, which helped a lot in terms of connections. Our families live in CA, which helps as well. But, because of the entertainment industry (which yes is one of my problems with LA for the attitude), there is a lot of money spent in this town on architecture and design. I don't know anyone from school who has had a problem getting a job, switching jobs, finding side jobs here, etc. We recently started our own company, and if we succeed, it will probably be because of the entertainment industry.
6. Climate & proximity to mountains, desert, ocean. I'm not athletic, but I love to camp and gray days depress me. I'm just in a better mood here, even if having no seasons sucks.
7. You can always come back. It may be changing because the cost of housing is going up, but I have never found LA claustrophobic. I've moved away twice and come back, and it's never been a problem to find a place to live, a job, etc. People's places are generally bigger and it's easier to stay with friends, and somehow you can just be anonymous here. I like feeling like I don't really have anything to do. In a city like NY or London, there's so much going on in your face, it's tempting to be out all the time and not concentrate on your own stuff (whatever that may be). I feel ok in LA to just hang out, garden, write, work on projects or whatever and not feel like I'm missing out on anything. And if I want to go out, there's plenty to do.
OK, so to be fair the things I don't like about LA are:
1. It's hard to walk anywhere. Not impossible - I live close to several restaurants and some decent bars and walk there all the time. It really depends on where you live. If you like to walk, I would recommend doing some research and testing out how far things are in walking distance from where you want to live. I now live in Atwater Village, which is near Silverlake and Los Feliz. I lived in Venice for a couple of years and could walk to the beach but I realized I'm much happier on the "East Side". Just depends on personal preferences (and it's way cheaper). I'm not a bike rider but I can see how if you are LA would suck. I do have a scooter though that is great for LA, but I don't take it on the freeway. A friend of mine from NYC put it this way - you really can't be spontaneous in LA. In a city where you can walk to stuff, you can just leave your house and make up the day as you go along. You have to plan more here because you are driving, sometimes(or often) stuck in traffic, and trying to do random stuff all day just isn't fun.
2. Attitude - I agree that the whole movie industry creates a wierd feeling, esp. when you go out to bars/clubs. I really don't like going out in LA, partly for those reasons (oh and the fact that it's kind of hard to go bar hopping & drive). On the other hand, the occasional "star sighting" is fun, and you'll recognize the locations for about 3/4 of the commercials on TV.
So that's my take, concerning friendliness I don't think LA is any different from anywhere else (except maybe Paris where I found it difficult to make casual friends). Though LA isn't perfect, I don't see us moving anytime soon. I am concerned about my kids talking LA slang and sounding annoying, but unless we can afford to move to Scotland I think we're out of luck. I have to say the longer I'm here the more LA grows on me. I love LA ?
screw all that guys, i really like LA for whatever reasons, and i could not imagine living anywhere else in america....but then i have to agree with other people on this post, and say that LA is not the best place to raise kids and stuff like that - but as far as im not at that stage yet, who gives a rat's ass???
Yup, to each his own. I grew up in a town of 20k people, so LA was just a little much. I think it was the lack of a 'place' that had me disappointed. I did love the diversity, the numerous places that you could get to in the same time, etc.
You can find places, but I know my arch. friends were not able to find anywhere they could afford.
What I like about Denver, Portland, and Seattle is the accessibility via foot or bike. You can bike anywhere in Denver, right from your front door. Same goes for Seattle, not sure about Portland but as I understood it, they did a good job with downtown (I lived there 20 years ago, long before I knew what architecture was!).
I've lived a lot of places and all I can conclude is that nowhere is perfect.
According to http://www.cityrating.com/
the top 10 US cities are
Atlanta
Denver
Cincinnati
Houston
Minneapolis - St. Paul
Raleigh - Durham
Salt Lake City
Seattle
Tampa
Washington D.C.
In no order of couse. I do have to stick up for the midwest here. From my experience the higher cost of living in cities like LA, NYC and Boston are not made up in the slightly higher salary within the arch profession. My money goes quite a ways here in the midwest which affords me a lot of travel to Europe and the Caribbean.
Why does Portland OR always seem to get a free pass? Sure, it's a nice city and 30+ breweries is extra nice but the airport there is absolute crap. No international direct service and very limited direct US travel. You have to love it there because it's a bitch to get anywhere.
stay away from LA. unless you can deal with flake-y people, fake-y people, and just a whole lotta of dumb people. the entertainment industry seems to dominate almost every aspect of 'culture' here and it creates an annoying, cheesy vibe in general. that said, if you're fascinated by 'dystopias' and discussions about how LA is 'blueprint' for urban sprawl in the 20-21st centuries, then by all means come here. hah.
if you want to live in a nice place go live in berkeley. or better yet the UK
A place is what you make it... and you can't argue that people here are dumber than anywhere else. Consider UCLA, USC, Cal-Tech and JPL, amongst the many other universities and think tank operations(RAND) we have going on here. The strength of the economy has been a huge plus in that we have not been hit with the recession nearly as hard as other parts of the country.
If you take a shallow look at the city, you will find that beauty is only skin deep. If you get past trying to hang out at the beach all day, go shopping and to cool bars, you'll find that the size and scale of LA means it has limitless possibilities (except maybe being able to bike anywhere). I agree, it's kind of an ugly city. I love visiting places like SF and Seattle to experience something different. I have never lived in a smaller city and I just don't know if I could. I know for sure that I couldn't move back to San Diego because it feels too "small"...
This is from Google :
"Long established as the financial, commercial, and industrial capital of southern California, the sprawling Los Angeles metropolitan area is among the nation's leading urban-industrial complexes. The size of its population alone makes the Los Angeles metropolitan area California's biggest economic center, employing 30 percent of the state's workforce. It generates nearly one-third of the value of goods manufactured in the state and accounts for more than one-quarter of all retail and wholesale sales. The city also is a financial center for the western United States and a principal importer and exporter of international trade goods. Although it directly employs only a small portion of the labor force, the motion-picture, television, and musical entertainment industry is one of Los Angeles's most famous activities. Many American movies and television programs are produced by local studios. Hollywood is the traditional movie capital, but studios and production centers today are scattered through the area. The region is also home to many of the country's recorded-music businesses. Because of its association with the entertainment industry, the Los Angeles area in the 1990s grew in importance as a center for multimedia production."
Also, I'm not trying to say LA is the best place to live - I'm sure there are many places that offer a better quality of life, safer place to raise kids, whatever it is you are after. But it works for me and I don't think I'll live anywhere else in the US unless I retire. It's been a great place to start a business, and it's also provided me with a lot of inspiration for my (bad) science fiction. So don't write it off before hearing different opinions...
It's got all the info you could want - education (Denver having the highest), most breweries (Denver again), precip., sun, etc., etc. They even have hi res pdfs you can download for free (I've got Portland, Seattle, and Denver, if you want them, in case they aren't there anymore).
Thanks mbr. That does seem like a good site - took the test and it came up with some I had considered (Portland, Long Beach, Oakland, San Fran) as well as other places I don't know much about (Providence, New Orleans, Eugene, New Haven). Course it also had Sacramento, San Jose & Las Vegas on my list...
Do you know Callan by any chance?
yeah but considering those places are all so far from eachother, you can't exactly meet those people by just walking down the street. maybe they're smart people, but it's damn hard to find them. I have yet to meet someone from some of those places that I even live less than a mile away from! btw, if you hate driving don't come here- car culture reigns supreme over a deadening landscape of gray freeways.
LA is a really cool place once you make good connections with people, but it's a hard place to start off. so if starting off under the aforementioned circumstances will be difficult for you, stay way.
and after all that, the cheesy hollywood, fakey flakey vibe will still be there. it's ubiquitous, baby.
the cheesy hollywood vibe is all over the country, sorry the world actually, thanks to mtv and stuff...
i will have to agree with CREAM that if one's starting out all alone, its going to take time to make friends, but then thats true in any big city, if you find people walking on the streets or not
Chicago...But the winters are friggin' miserable. The bad winters do, however, make the summers that much more enjoyable. If famiarity breeds contempt, then will will never grow tired of good weather.
Another negative is the everpresent freeloading street degenerates asking you for money at every single corner.
with regards to the seattle weather, you are right that the clouds may prove more oppressive than the rain. the time of day in which it rains the most here is 3am. it rains and clears by the time you roll out of bed. i would say that the winter is probably the only time you have to worry about the clouds though. summers are pleasant and sunny. only a couple of days will break 90 degrees. the thing that may compound the oppressiveness more are the short days in the winter. 8 hours of daylight. sunrise aroud 8a and sunset at 4p., but this is offset by the long summer days. yesterday >> sunrise at 5.10a, sunset 9.10p
london or anywhere uk hands down, although i last i looked its not the us.
if your priorities are......
a) great architecture not just by a few every once and a while but by many [the smallest practice does great stuff better than any staritect metioned on these boards......]
b) great access to lots lectures / folks discussing where to go next not just about architecture but great issues of social agenda. clear, clear agenda about sustainable communities, design goals to follow - not just ....'well did it get LEED?' or 'AIA green award'
c) great music
d)great lager
e)great access to the rest of europe
f)great access to real sports that are about athletics v. brut force like 'football'
g)great weather, yes i said great weather....its not f'ing cold in the winter and when it gets overcast, your 2 hours from a great beach on the meditarian
what the hell is up with everyone and their brother just LOVING boston and chicago?! not THAT great of a city. savannah is a great city to live in. that and new orleans. the only two cities in america, that i know of, that still have "plastic cup" laws. plus, the party and bar scenes are amazing. and there are more women than you could shake a stick at.
having lived there for 5 years.....i'd say your absolutely wrong.
you adjust to whereever you live. say the food thing [going out to eat] is not the thing you do in uk because food sucks royal. you go to friends for meals, go to the pub[how much did you spend last week going out to eat x 52 weeks?]...you dont own a car.....and you more than likely will have a flatmate, to save lots of money live on a bus line, not a block from the nearest tube station. so big deal. it looks scarey from the outside. but trust me, its like buying your first property. you wonder how you could ever afford the mortgage and by payment no. 3, you wonder why it took you so long.
unless you are going with some pre-determined baggage, a non-working spouse, 6 kids, etc. etc. all the cities on this board are the same. its all adjusting and if your afraid to make a move sole on money, you are only fearing the unknown.
Best place to live in US?
My personal pick would be Boston, it's a vibrant city that isn't too big, has incredible history, is very picturesque, is full of the most intellegent people on the planet, is on the ocean and near the mtns. to the north, has a great sports scene, and is full of hot co-eds....
other picks?
Nova Scotia
portland, or
As a former resident of Boston, I'd have to agree that there are lots to like about Boston. For one, it's a wonderful place to be a student. However, there's also lots to dislike. Just to name a few:
1. As with most sucessful metro areas, affordable housing is a huge problem.
2. The city's public transporation system is inadequate as many jobs are no longer located in the urban core, requiring very long commutes for many residents.
3. Racial and income segregation remains a problem. Boston is known as a wealthy town for blue-blooded elitists. There's a certain truth to that.
i really don't like boston
chicago rocks
Chicago is a great place, but my pick would have to be Louisville, KY. All the benefits of a small city, none of the disadvantages of a large city, and full of the friendliest people in the world. Just wish there was more and better call for architects.
I've lived in two places, Chicago and Ann Arbor. Chicago is much better.
i'd like to know more opinions since i'm planning to move; currently in LA (which i don't like much). where's there a lot of work for architects? i've also lived in nyc (great) but expensive. i grew up near boston, which i don't care for too much although it's an okay city.
portland, or
I hear ya benny, I thought I was going to love LA. Mountina biking (but no bike lanes), snowboarding (but still 2.5 hours away), and lotsa great architecture (ok, there is some of that). But I really did not like it, it's over priced, pretentious teenagers, etc., etc.
I like Denver so far. Great opportunities, it's small and relatively affordable, and easy to get around. And there are bike lanes everywhere and a ski train to take you to the mountains (about 3 blocks from my front door!).
I also liked Portland and Seattle, but considering it's been overcast here for 3 days (very unusual), not sure I could deal with it all year. But if you can, you won't find a better place. No idea about work.
benny and mbr, could you elaborate on your dislike of LA. I am planning to move there from the midwest. Have some time there (a week at a time), and have enjoyed what I saw. The people appear friendly, and there seems to be a lot to do to keep oneself occupied
thanks
gary. micheal is and will always be my man no matter weather he likes little children......
omigod we hated denver. lived there for over 10 years. i can't believe i survived 360 days a year of blazing sun. plus all the smog, sports bars, yuppies, lack of cultural diversity, suvs, lack of greenery...
different strokes for different folks i guess, but you really couldn't pay me to live there again. i'm happier poor here than i ever was rich there.
I agree about the greenery in Denver, I do miss that. But compared to LA, it's great. As for the yuppy thing, we are all yuppies on here, like it or not, but compared to the pretentious qualities of LA, I find it as 'normal' as my hick home town.
I moved to LA for UCLA, from CT (undergrad at UF, so 4 years there). I thought I'd love it. But the lack of accessible areas to ride bikes, walk around, etc., and the need to drive long distances all the time (or, at least it seemed like it) sucked. People have been a lot more friendly everywhere else I lived.
My list:
- Too expensive - you can never dream of owning a house on an architects salary unless you commute for 2 hours one way. I don't think any of my classmates will last too much longer there, it's just impractical.
- Not really any different from any other city as far as night life, just more of it. But driving into HWood on a weekend night takes patience and courage (my poor car).
- Had a lot of fun at the beaches, but they are pretty disgusting (think brown stained legs).
- Too competitive for architecture. You've got people moving there for school, for the celeb architects, etc. There is simply too many 'cutting edge' designers, willing to work for nothing.
- Dirty. So damn dirty. Part of it is the desert dirt, part of it is the cars.
- One of the worst places I can imagine to ever raise a family.
Basically, I just didn't like it. If I had a million or two, it would have been nice. The nice neighborhoods are really nice, but the sub 750k neighborhoods go downhill fast.
As for the sun, it's the same here as it was in LA. I agree it's a little too much, but I've lived at each corner of the US (Portland, CT, Boston, Providence, Virginia, Florida, LA), and no place is perfect. New England is gorgeous, but the humidity, poison ivy, and little bugs (think lymes disease) suck, Portland was gorgeous, but the continual overcast/gray is oppressive.
I would never recommend LA to anyone and don't know anyone that would, having lived there.
canada is nice.
holla formanaught! quality of life in canada is much better than the yanks will ever know. national healthcare, more polite culture, and a better public education system.
seattle is quite nice.
loved it enough to leave nyc.
in many ways it doesn't stack up cultutally, but the natural surroundings made it a no-brainer.
and the amount of rain is a myth in seattle. it actually rains more in nyc. last summer, i believe, it rained breifly for 2 days. in the winter, i'd take rain in a moderate climate any day over the brutal bone chilling cold of most places.
I've seen that stats, it was/is one of my favs. But the problem is the overcast, not the inches of prec. I know it's kind of subjective as to how oppressive it is, right? Like 'you can deal with the clouds because it's so beautiful'? I've heard that from someone that lives here, but wants to move back eventually. I was there for the one week of sunny weather years ago, and it was gorgeous. Mt. Rainier is absolute breathtaking.
Nice work, e, love the identitiy stuff.
no self-respecting yuppie yank wants to live in canada. stay away.
parent's basement
I agree with Boston. The housing cost does suck, and public transit shuts down at 1 am. That's really annoying. But as far as the city, I love it. It's such a nice place to walk around. Today was absolutely spectacular along the Charles River. If I had money, there would be a lot of stuff to do as well. Luckily, it is a nice place if you don't have money too (if you like walking around for fun). Moving to Philly in mid August for school and I'm going to miss Boston. Philly is dirty, but I'm too stupid to get in GSD and stay here. Also, lots of cute Japanese exchange students. I'm not what some would call an Asiophile, but they seem to like my blonde hair and blue eyes, and I like thier adorable-ness so it works out. AWWW Tomoko.
mbr (& others thinking about LA):
A different take on LA... I'm from San Diego, so I thought the last place I would ever want to live was LA, but here I am. I went to UCLA for a year right out of high school and hated Westwood (didn't know anything else about LA), so I moved to France for school. I lived in Paris, then NY for a bit, and back to LA. Came back for SCI-Arc, but also because I realized there were certain things I missed about it when I was gone -
1. Low cost of living. It has definitely gone up since I moved back, but the salaries have gone up some as well. I still think LA is one of the best places I've been for good cheap and amazingly diverse food. You can see some decent bands for 5 or 10 bucks, and you spend less money because you aren't tempted by all the cool stores you walk to on the way home, cause there aren't any and you probably aren't walking anyway. Leading to reason #2...
2. Diversity. I won't argue LA is not geographically segregated, and the fact that it's so big doesn't help. BUT, LA is I think the most diverse city on the planet in terms of number of languages spoken, religions practiced, etc. If you are into trying different food, going to cultural museums or street fairs, taking a class on meditation or a foreign language, or just browsing in neighborhood supermarkets, LA is heaven. Hang out at the IKEA in Burbank for a while and listen to the number of languages spoken and you'll see what I mean. I have also lived in London and quite a bit in Europe and Asia, and I think part of the reason I feel comfortable here is the diversity. I visited Seattle last year and liked a lot of things about it (tried kayaking for the first time...), but I did feel really wierd because everywhere I went most of the people were white (I'm white). Maybe I was being overly sensitive, don't know. Just my take on it. This is one of the reasons I think LA would actually not be a bad place to raise kids. Also, I found it interesting that people in other countries are fascinated by LA. Esp. architects, writers, etc. (I studied philosophy and went to a very diverse campus in Paris where about 1/2 the students were French & the rest were a mixture of immigrants from other parts of Europe & Africa) They see the economy, diversity and culture of LA as indicative of the future of development on the planet. I'm not saying it's all good, and there is a lot to be critical about, here as anywhere, but it is interesting. Anyone who has lived here for a while and likes it will tell you it's partly because you have the option of doing your own thing or exploring, and there's so much to explore.
3. We bought a house here. Contrary to what mbr says, you CAN buy a house here. We bought ours 4 years ago, so I guess it was before the market went crazy, and it's tiny and we gutted the whole thing ourselves... but we have a huge yard in a diverse(yep) neighborhood with lots of families(no kids yet), convenient freeway access, etc. It was less than $150K. At this point I don't know where we would want to move to that we would be able to buy a house, and we could in LA. My husband is an architect too and we have never made much money. Moving on to 4...
4. It's easy to live here. This may be the "lazy" person's take on life, but after living in a lot of dense and sometimes foreign cities, LA is just so fucking convenient. If you like to build things, buy huge pieces of used furniture to cart around, garden(we grow our own vegetables), or grocery shop at 11 at night, you can do it in LA. Yes, it's true we are homebodies. We don't go out much, and we work at home now, so we don't really deal with traffic. We have a lot of good friends that live in our neighborhood. In that sense, maybe it's like living anywhere, if you settle down it's pretty comfortable.
5. Jobs. True, we went to school locally, which helped a lot in terms of connections. Our families live in CA, which helps as well. But, because of the entertainment industry (which yes is one of my problems with LA for the attitude), there is a lot of money spent in this town on architecture and design. I don't know anyone from school who has had a problem getting a job, switching jobs, finding side jobs here, etc. We recently started our own company, and if we succeed, it will probably be because of the entertainment industry.
6. Climate & proximity to mountains, desert, ocean. I'm not athletic, but I love to camp and gray days depress me. I'm just in a better mood here, even if having no seasons sucks.
7. You can always come back. It may be changing because the cost of housing is going up, but I have never found LA claustrophobic. I've moved away twice and come back, and it's never been a problem to find a place to live, a job, etc. People's places are generally bigger and it's easier to stay with friends, and somehow you can just be anonymous here. I like feeling like I don't really have anything to do. In a city like NY or London, there's so much going on in your face, it's tempting to be out all the time and not concentrate on your own stuff (whatever that may be). I feel ok in LA to just hang out, garden, write, work on projects or whatever and not feel like I'm missing out on anything. And if I want to go out, there's plenty to do.
OK, so to be fair the things I don't like about LA are:
1. It's hard to walk anywhere. Not impossible - I live close to several restaurants and some decent bars and walk there all the time. It really depends on where you live. If you like to walk, I would recommend doing some research and testing out how far things are in walking distance from where you want to live. I now live in Atwater Village, which is near Silverlake and Los Feliz. I lived in Venice for a couple of years and could walk to the beach but I realized I'm much happier on the "East Side". Just depends on personal preferences (and it's way cheaper). I'm not a bike rider but I can see how if you are LA would suck. I do have a scooter though that is great for LA, but I don't take it on the freeway. A friend of mine from NYC put it this way - you really can't be spontaneous in LA. In a city where you can walk to stuff, you can just leave your house and make up the day as you go along. You have to plan more here because you are driving, sometimes(or often) stuck in traffic, and trying to do random stuff all day just isn't fun.
2. Attitude - I agree that the whole movie industry creates a wierd feeling, esp. when you go out to bars/clubs. I really don't like going out in LA, partly for those reasons (oh and the fact that it's kind of hard to go bar hopping & drive). On the other hand, the occasional "star sighting" is fun, and you'll recognize the locations for about 3/4 of the commercials on TV.
So that's my take, concerning friendliness I don't think LA is any different from anywhere else (except maybe Paris where I found it difficult to make casual friends). Though LA isn't perfect, I don't see us moving anytime soon. I am concerned about my kids talking LA slang and sounding annoying, but unless we can afford to move to Scotland I think we're out of luck. I have to say the longer I'm here the more LA grows on me. I love LA ?
sorry, meant to say travelled in Europe and Asia. Maybe I'll be lucky enough to live there someday, if I can get out of LA...
Oh yeah and you might notice it's midnight on a saturday night and I'm on here, so that's one kind of person that likes LA. Nerds?
screw all that guys, i really like LA for whatever reasons, and i could not imagine living anywhere else in america....but then i have to agree with other people on this post, and say that LA is not the best place to raise kids and stuff like that - but as far as im not at that stage yet, who gives a rat's ass???
Yup, to each his own. I grew up in a town of 20k people, so LA was just a little much. I think it was the lack of a 'place' that had me disappointed. I did love the diversity, the numerous places that you could get to in the same time, etc.
You can find places, but I know my arch. friends were not able to find anywhere they could afford.
What I like about Denver, Portland, and Seattle is the accessibility via foot or bike. You can bike anywhere in Denver, right from your front door. Same goes for Seattle, not sure about Portland but as I understood it, they did a good job with downtown (I lived there 20 years ago, long before I knew what architecture was!).
I've lived a lot of places and all I can conclude is that nowhere is perfect.
According to http://www.cityrating.com/
the top 10 US cities are
Atlanta
Denver
Cincinnati
Houston
Minneapolis - St. Paul
Raleigh - Durham
Salt Lake City
Seattle
Tampa
Washington D.C.
In no order of couse. I do have to stick up for the midwest here. From my experience the higher cost of living in cities like LA, NYC and Boston are not made up in the slightly higher salary within the arch profession. My money goes quite a ways here in the midwest which affords me a lot of travel to Europe and the Caribbean.
Why does Portland OR always seem to get a free pass? Sure, it's a nice city and 30+ breweries is extra nice but the airport there is absolute crap. No international direct service and very limited direct US travel. You have to love it there because it's a bitch to get anywhere.
actually there is direct intl to frankfurt on lufthansa and somewhere in japan on nwa now i believe.
stay away from LA. unless you can deal with flake-y people, fake-y people, and just a whole lotta of dumb people. the entertainment industry seems to dominate almost every aspect of 'culture' here and it creates an annoying, cheesy vibe in general. that said, if you're fascinated by 'dystopias' and discussions about how LA is 'blueprint' for urban sprawl in the 20-21st centuries, then by all means come here. hah.
if you want to live in a nice place go live in berkeley. or better yet the UK
A place is what you make it... and you can't argue that people here are dumber than anywhere else. Consider UCLA, USC, Cal-Tech and JPL, amongst the many other universities and think tank operations(RAND) we have going on here. The strength of the economy has been a huge plus in that we have not been hit with the recession nearly as hard as other parts of the country.
If you take a shallow look at the city, you will find that beauty is only skin deep. If you get past trying to hang out at the beach all day, go shopping and to cool bars, you'll find that the size and scale of LA means it has limitless possibilities (except maybe being able to bike anywhere). I agree, it's kind of an ugly city. I love visiting places like SF and Seattle to experience something different. I have never lived in a smaller city and I just don't know if I could. I know for sure that I couldn't move back to San Diego because it feels too "small"...
This is from Google :
"Long established as the financial, commercial, and industrial capital of southern California, the sprawling Los Angeles metropolitan area is among the nation's leading urban-industrial complexes. The size of its population alone makes the Los Angeles metropolitan area California's biggest economic center, employing 30 percent of the state's workforce. It generates nearly one-third of the value of goods manufactured in the state and accounts for more than one-quarter of all retail and wholesale sales. The city also is a financial center for the western United States and a principal importer and exporter of international trade goods. Although it directly employs only a small portion of the labor force, the motion-picture, television, and musical entertainment industry is one of Los Angeles's most famous activities. Many American movies and television programs are produced by local studios. Hollywood is the traditional movie capital, but studios and production centers today are scattered through the area. The region is also home to many of the country's recorded-music businesses. Because of its association with the entertainment industry, the Los Angeles area in the 1990s grew in importance as a center for multimedia production."
Also, I'm not trying to say LA is the best place to live - I'm sure there are many places that offer a better quality of life, safer place to raise kids, whatever it is you are after. But it works for me and I don't think I'll live anywhere else in the US unless I retire. It's been a great place to start a business, and it's also provided me with a lot of inspiration for my (bad) science fiction. So don't write it off before hearing different opinions...
LA was hit pretty hard while I was there, I did not know of one firm where I knew someone that wasn't cut in half, literally.
I forgot about this, a priceless resource:
Find Your Spot
It's got all the info you could want - education (Denver having the highest), most breweries (Denver again), precip., sun, etc., etc. They even have hi res pdfs you can download for free (I've got Portland, Seattle, and Denver, if you want them, in case they aren't there anymore).
Thanks mbr. That does seem like a good site - took the test and it came up with some I had considered (Portland, Long Beach, Oakland, San Fran) as well as other places I don't know much about (Providence, New Orleans, Eugene, New Haven). Course it also had Sacramento, San Jose & Las Vegas on my list...
Do you know Callan by any chance?
R.A. Rudolph... I LOVE L.A.!
Consider UCLA, USC, Cal-Tech and JPL-
yeah but considering those places are all so far from eachother, you can't exactly meet those people by just walking down the street. maybe they're smart people, but it's damn hard to find them. I have yet to meet someone from some of those places that I even live less than a mile away from! btw, if you hate driving don't come here- car culture reigns supreme over a deadening landscape of gray freeways.
LA is a really cool place once you make good connections with people, but it's a hard place to start off. so if starting off under the aforementioned circumstances will be difficult for you, stay way.
and after all that, the cheesy hollywood, fakey flakey vibe will still be there. it's ubiquitous, baby.
the cheesy hollywood vibe is all over the country, sorry the world actually, thanks to mtv and stuff...
i will have to agree with CREAM that if one's starting out all alone, its going to take time to make friends, but then thats true in any big city, if you find people walking on the streets or not
Chicago...But the winters are friggin' miserable. The bad winters do, however, make the summers that much more enjoyable. If famiarity breeds contempt, then will will never grow tired of good weather.
Another negative is the everpresent freeloading street degenerates asking you for money at every single corner.
If Chicago is the best place to live in the US...I'm moving.
Moving Back or Moving Away?
Away from the US.
Bye
You can probably still chat on archinect from wherever you're going.
Bon Voyage.
France, Huh?
mbr, thx for the props. glad you like.
with regards to the seattle weather, you are right that the clouds may prove more oppressive than the rain. the time of day in which it rains the most here is 3am. it rains and clears by the time you roll out of bed. i would say that the winter is probably the only time you have to worry about the clouds though. summers are pleasant and sunny. only a couple of days will break 90 degrees. the thing that may compound the oppressiveness more are the short days in the winter. 8 hours of daylight. sunrise aroud 8a and sunset at 4p., but this is offset by the long summer days. yesterday >> sunrise at 5.10a, sunset 9.10p
london or anywhere uk hands down, although i last i looked its not the us.
if your priorities are......
a) great architecture not just by a few every once and a while but by many [the smallest practice does great stuff better than any staritect metioned on these boards......]
b) great access to lots lectures / folks discussing where to go next not just about architecture but great issues of social agenda. clear, clear agenda about sustainable communities, design goals to follow - not just ....'well did it get LEED?' or 'AIA green award'
c) great music
d)great lager
e)great access to the rest of europe
f)great access to real sports that are about athletics v. brut force like 'football'
g)great weather, yes i said great weather....its not f'ing cold in the winter and when it gets overcast, your 2 hours from a great beach on the meditarian
i)NO GEORGE BUSH
....then jump the pond!
ted, i agree with all of the above, but you forgot expensive as all hell.
what the hell is up with everyone and their brother just LOVING boston and chicago?! not THAT great of a city. savannah is a great city to live in. that and new orleans. the only two cities in america, that i know of, that still have "plastic cup" laws. plus, the party and bar scenes are amazing. and there are more women than you could shake a stick at.
having lived there for 5 years.....i'd say your absolutely wrong.
you adjust to whereever you live. say the food thing [going out to eat] is not the thing you do in uk because food sucks royal. you go to friends for meals, go to the pub[how much did you spend last week going out to eat x 52 weeks?]...you dont own a car.....and you more than likely will have a flatmate, to save lots of money live on a bus line, not a block from the nearest tube station. so big deal. it looks scarey from the outside. but trust me, its like buying your first property. you wonder how you could ever afford the mortgage and by payment no. 3, you wonder why it took you so long.
unless you are going with some pre-determined baggage, a non-working spouse, 6 kids, etc. etc. all the cities on this board are the same. its all adjusting and if your afraid to make a move sole on money, you are only fearing the unknown.
word TED!
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