ted, sorry for possibly mistating the costs, but wasn't there a report just done on the most expensive places to live in the world and london ranked number 2? >>
i agree with people adjusting to circumstance and that they should not make the decision to move just on money. while i have not lived in any of the top 10 most expensive places, i have lived in 4 of the top 100 most expensive places on the list and they are expensive just as any big city will be.
I have a friend who lives in Boulder CO. That place sounds awesome!! How about other small college cities like Ann Arbor, Charlottesville, Madison, Columbus, Tuscon?
i think it's a great place to be in the rain season, b/c when the sun comes out the place is a ghost town. there are so many people here that think of the city as a gigantic suburb, that they all disappear into the mountains in summer. not that this is a bad thing, it's just that the feeling of an urban experience is gone when you walk down a neighborhood street and see no one in sight, yet hundreds of cars on there way somewhere else. a sense of place is forgotten.
Not to be a gluten for gloomy days, but the urban experience is much more dramatic and interesting in the rain season. if anyone plans on moving out here, remember to not expect much from weekends in summertime.
PDX, OR gets a free pass every discussion becaue it's frickin' badass here. It's so sweet here, who the f' cares about where you can fly to? If you're into travelling other places all the time, then you don't need a cool place to live.
To each his own. I think the only problem I have with Portland is the fact that Oregon's economy is horrible, and there still doesn't seem to be any bright future....unless they can somehow attract dozens of high tech and warehousing companies (which will never happen because of California ports and Seattle being so close). On the flip side, this has kept Portland the only big city on the west coast that has still kept its gritty cultures and working class heritage.
Seattle's cool, but what Portland has to offer in comparison is a much more heightened sense of community, and richer diversity in the different sub-cultures. In my opinion , Seattle has gone over the hump, becoming more and more homogenous by the year. Rich people (stereotypically) are great for the city, but tend to kill the advancement of progressive music/art/design etc. Portland's Pearl District is still not big enough to be detrimental to that scene, whereas even Belltown is becoming too shiny-happy.
Portlands' unique to the US. There's no place quite iike it, just like Chicago, Miami, LA, NY, and Boston. What makes it better to me is it's history of progressive urban planning, sense of community despite large population, and relatively high value of living vs. cost of living.
PDX is not the only city with the gritty sub cultures and working class heritage.....i think it's the only west coast metropolis that can legitimately claim to still be predominantly working class. I think you're typical portlander is more interested in the community's success than his/her own, vs. the supposed majority in other west coast metros.
those listings are absolutely meaningless rate quantitatively apples and apples and dont appreciate cultural /social differences.
everyone adjust when they go to whatever city they are going to. if you go to a place and insist upon continuing a standard that doesnt fit culturally / socially with where you are, you will pay out of the nose for it.
if i went to an estate agent in london that catered to expats coming abroad, i would be shown THE most expensive big flats. americans that had kids in london sent there kids to 'the american school' for $20k per kid per year when the uk system of k-12 is far better than the us and considering they speak english, it was ridiculus for their kids to miss that cultural experience.
the standard 1 bed in chi town is about 800-1000 sf. in london, perhaps more like 500sf. so if you compare a 800-1000 sf flat in london, your probably looking at a 2-3 bed flat, texas size. i suspect those comparisons in the cnn article do the same. a 1 bed flat in tokyo is no bigger than a toilet stall.
live like an american in london v. a european and you will pay.
people, young architects in uk, do own property, do travel and are having a great time.
ted, i said i agree about adjusting to circumstance ie. social differences, cultural difference, etc. i am not argueing about these points. i'm just saying, it's expensive. it has nothing to do with expats looking for the largest most expensive flat. i've lived in some of these expensive places that are on the list, and maybe you can dispute the order of the list, but the places on the list are damn expensive to live in. i don't have a problem with saying that seattle is an expensive place to live, and with that expense comes a lot of great things, just as in london.
i was just trying to build on the article you quoted was with regard to expat spending habits!!!
"Mercer's researchers priced a basket of more than 200 goods and services in each city that reflects expatriate spending habits. "
expat spending habits do not reflects us regular guys.....
that aint me and that aint you, i suspect.
i still argue, it really appears much more expensive on the surface than it is once you.....go with the flow....if i go to starbucks UK, i pay 3.00 pound for a grande latte [$5.50 or so] but i could go to the local italian deli throughout london and get a better latte for 1.80 pounds. for some ungodly reason, the brits have changed alliance and stand in line for their starbucks v. the shop down the road.
archiphreak - My opinion on savannah is that its a good place to visit, but not to live. I have been here for 3 years and its really getting old. The crime is a problem, moreso than other larger cities. It has a huge historical significance, but that doesnt mean livability. of course we have the whole bar/nightlife scene, but meh... There is no point in coming to savannah and not living in downtown. I know a lot of people that have come here and live on the outskirts or far away, and its just not worth it. To experience the town you should be able to bike or walk around downtown rather than drive. Its a walking friendly town. And the architecture here is old styled, bland, overdone, etc. in my opinion anyway. but maybe I'm missing the good stuff.
you might like it here if you like an extremely laid back beach community rich in history and in a small compact setting. Its suprising how small the "real" or downtown savannah is. and oh boy with all the college peple here the rent can get out of hand, with the locals charging rediculous rents, but I guess thats to be expected.
so what do you guys think about Pittsburgh? I have family there and have visited several times, an dI always like it and enjoy myself, but then again that is visiting the city which can be completely different from living there.
ah, i get the expat comment now. apologies for that. as for the starbucks vs. the local cafe, that's just the stupidity of peeps that we can't do anything about. dumb people will do what dumb people do especially when they have more money than they know what to do with. the grande double shot americano i get at my local cafe is $1.60, and no, that's not one of the thousands of starbucks in seattle. i don't even know how much it costs there because i won't go there. their coffee sucks.
why do people gravity toward the mass marketed crap, even though it's worse than similar products that aren't mass marketed?
chicago
the weather sucks in the winter but that keeps this city from becoming over populated.
everyone that lives in the west/east coast STAY THERE!!!!
yes chicago is the only hope for the midwest but it kicks ass
Ann Arbor is the best college town
Chicago is the best city
I have been to chicago once,and really loved the atmosphere. Its the largest city I have been to - besides toronto - an dI really enjoyed the urban feel. I cold see myself living there. an dI love rain and snow!
what is the process that people go through to go to another country to live and work for an undetermined period of time. I know one of my buddies considered london, but what is the process? just a work visa? do you have to have dual citizenship? any help is appreciated
You would need to apply for a work visa, and depending on your career status and how much money you are willing to pay, it could be more or less time consuming, more or less expensive. There are all kinds of organizations that help arrange work visas, a good bet is to go to the Embassy/cultural organization for the country you want to work in and find out what programs they offer. I did one quite a while ago for France, and honestly I don't remember the details but it wasn't incredibly expensive. I did however have trouble finding a job once I got to France, and ended up working under the table for a friend so I didn't need the visa anyway. Also, I think it was only a 6 month visa program for recent grads or something. Remember that having the visa(or ability to get one) is only the beginning. The catch is that unless you have a lot of cash, you probably won't want to get the visa before you have a job, and in many cases you probably can't get it until you have a job secured, but employers won't want to hire you until you already have it. To be honest most of the people I know who live and work in foreign countries either went to school there and then stayed, or have family(spouses or parents) from that country who sponsored them or paid their way for a while until they could get a job. My husband and I would love to move to Europe to work, but I think it is not realistic for a couple unless you have some decent savings and are further along in your career. I do have a friend from Switzerland who came here to work and made it. But, she had a pre-arranged job with a Swiss-owned firm here that sponsored her, and I think she got it through a former employer over there who was friends with them. She did change jobs once and extended her visa, but it limited her options in terms of being able to change jobs. Her visa finally expired again and she took her american boyfriend and left...
sorry to say, but after living in Boston, LA, Ann Arbor, and the San Francisco Bay Area for a number of years each, the Bay Area (especially if you're in San Fran, Oakland or Berkeley) is hard to beat overall
I've got to agree with J's post above. I went to college in Chicago and the shitty, shitty weather nine months of the year is a MAJOR factor in quality of living. For months at a time most of downtown is packed into icy grey snow that just sits around sucking up exhaust from passing traffic. The blistering cold and arctic wind sucked down out of Hyperborea can occasionally feel like a living, malevolent force. If you went outdoors without a hat between October and April, people would look at you like you're insane. Plus, the weather warps people's perceptions: the first late-April day that the mercury rises over 50 every asshole in the city is in shorts by the lake with their dog. Given, spring is glorious for two weeks, until the sweltering summer begins and legions of the elderly begin dropping dead. Maybe 5% of all residential buildings in Chicago have air-conditioning, central or otherwise.
I live in Austin now, which is conspicuously absent from this discussion thread. It's admittedly hot in the summer, and most of the hype about the city is overblown: cf. all that shit about Austin being the "live music capital of the world." That's true, in that every taqueria you walk into will probably have a lousy Stevie Ray Vaughan tribute band playing, but there's very little musical diversity beyond blues and indie rock. Even the much-hyped SXSW is disappointingly homogenous. The pace of living here is easy, though, and it's nice to have a break from the runaway ambient anxiety of life on the East coast. And it's extremely cheap. I don't plan on staying here after graduation; I'll probably move to either S.F., NYC or abroad. I'm also partial to Toronto and Montreal, but yes, I know, they're freezing.
Also, what a laughable conceit that London or anywhere in the U.K. is a nice place to live. Visit, yes. Live, definitely not.
there is a reason why Austin is absent from this discussion thread.
london is european and isnt to the liking of most amerians as a place to live. agreed.
people dont like not having their own private transport, those little nasty refridgerators in flats arent nothing like my 23 cuft stainless steel amana with my on-demand ice maker/filtered water....talk about no AC, no where, anywhere, anytime, not even in offices... for god sakes the windows in the office i worked in...well they opened...and you know on some days....well, i sweated.....how crude.[the germans in my office really smelled bad some days.....]
perhaps suggesting a spot to visit next time your there may have you take a second look at uk, american style.
visit sheffield meadow hall shopping mall. it was built outside the sheffield city center and caused the abandoned the city center, very close to the M1, the big highway that leads to the north, lots and lots of easy parking and has every franchised single high street store you are used to in austin[may even have a tex mex place as well]. and the standing seam green paint roofs and fancy ornamental stamped metal that looks sooo much like....well sort of like old copper .....i guess....if you squint. this will soon probably be a listed historic places soon because the government and CABE has come out and said .....we shouldnt and wont be building developments that destroy our city centers in the future......and you know what....they are actually supporting this belief and building projects like the amazing sucessful bullring in birmingham; a 1.2 mil sf urban shopping mall that energizes the existing city streets that connect the mall at 3 different street levels with futures systems' selfridges finishing the edge. ....and they do have a parking garage, just incase you drive. if you want to understand how a national government can set a standard for strong sustainble framework goals that communities and local councils can build upon visit http://www.cabe.org.uk/ . to see it in action visit birmingham.
42 and austin have texas in common and we understand where the vision of our country is going.
i should acknowledge that i work for the uk tourist board and get a bob or two by posting a note or two that promote uk tourism. not.
architecture and urban planning in the uk = optimism.
with a stadium with over 100,000 ann arbor IS special. i've been there for many games and loved when they passed people around the stands. but then again, college football in the south IS really what its all about.
college football has the same passion uk football has. players are fast, trim and fit.
i think pro football in us is about battering ram obese fat boys that would get winded on a 50 yard dash. not atheletes that i enjoy look at. and we have the bears and they suck.
yeah like uofm fans give a shit bout the weather,
who cares
if you need it to be 80 and sunny to enjoy a football game you suck
football rules
Michigan has one of the best football traditions in the country
i hope for shitty weather, it makes the games more fun
Re: LA
keep in mind, I came here for architecture school and have not lived the kind of life people imagine or actually live here.
however, from what i've experienced in 3 years, the main drawback is that despite being the 2nd largest metropolitan city in the US, LA is pretty provincial (in addition to NY, and NE, I lived in Paris, parts of Asia and went to college outside of LA-- in a college town)-- the city seems to attract large numbers of provincial, uninformed people. and unfortunately, the whole car culture and sprawl of the city do not encourage personal growth, meaning joe idiot from somewhere else will always remain joe idiot, except he'll only think he's become super savvy and cool living in LA. people here are also flaky, flaky, flaky. also, there are too many egomaniacs here and on the other side of the spectrum, i've met more clinically depressed people here than anywhere else-- and they are unwilling to do anything to get help.
also, too many parts of the city just shut down at 10pm-- this is not a 24-hour town like NY.
LA drivers are the worst drivers in the world.
having said that, LA has the potential to be a great city-- all the ingredients are there, but it's too much work to make them all work for you. and if you do meet one cool person, it is very rare and few, which makes it more rewarding but there's too many schlubs to go through.
i do like the laidback attitude though, and seeing jack nicholson in person was nice-- he's really all that. but then, that's not normal and routine.
I visited Ann Arbor last year, I found it to be the most overrated place I had ever gone. From everything I had heard about it being this great college town, etc. I found it so overblown. I think I had a better time visiting MIT...lol
well, i have to say that i agree with DJ that ann arbor is overrated, but i don't know if its the most overrated place i've ever been. the fact that it is overrated doesn't mean its necessarily bad. when i first moved to a2 i was disappointed, but in discovered what it has to offer in the last couple years i'm happy with it. the summers are great here. it isn't san diego or boston, but come on, it only has 200,000 people there's no comparison. as far as snotty weather is concerned, i grew up in the midwest and i like to ski, so i don't mind it. i lived in phoenix for a few years and while it was nice to always have sunshine, i was also pretty much bored by the consistency. some people like the four seasons.
oh yeah, i forgot about dominics...if you visit ann arbor in the summer you have to go to dominics. mr. gift you just got me so pumped up i might have to go have some sangria later to wash off my hour long commute!
someone quite a ways back was complaining about the large quantity of sunshine in Denver.....*blink*....since when can you have too much good weather? I like living in the Denver area....other than the traffic sucks at rush hour....but the city has a great acoustic music organization in Swallow Hill...lots of great restaurants and clubs....an excellent park system and as was noted, the bike paths extend all over the metro area....and the best part is that you can get lost in some spectacular mountains in just a few hours and leave the puters and cell phones far behind.
In over 7 years here, I have yet to attend a Broncos game...or a Nuggets game....have been to a few Rockies games, courtesy of contractors giving me tickets, and once to an Avalache game, same courtesy. But pro sports tickets in general, anywhere in the country I suspect, are way overpriced for us working stiffs....at least those of us with families. So, while I enjoy watching a game once in a while on the tube....I prefer to spend a weekend backpacking in the mountains rather than fighting for a parking space and dealing with the traffic hassles getting to and from a pro sports event...and those hot dogs and beer prices are ridiculous also....oh yeah, and I freely admit to being a cheapskate. I am an architect, not a real estate developer, with the corresponding thin wallet.
soleprop: that was me... and that depends on what you consider good weather.
i might ask how someone could tire of lovely overcast days and a nice light, yet constant, rain which keeps everything clean and green? it's been 85-90 for 5 days here in PDX now and i'm hating life again. summer sucks.
crillywazzy....well, I guess that is what makes the world go round....I will take the blue skies and sunshine any day, thanks. Nothing like sitting on top of a 14er and soaking in a little sunshine....
its actually surprising to find so many people bitching here about LA-
but LA dont give a rat's ass i guess!!!!!
any place is what one makes of it, i think and people land up in certain cities for jobs, or other specific reasons - i dont think anyone goes to a city based on its 'quality of living' - its just something that happens when you are busy looking for opportunities and stuff. or so i think
Boston is a wonderful city. One of the best things about the city in my opinion is that it is a "walking city" - where you could walk from end-to-end in an hour or two.
Historically, it really can't be beat and there has been a more recent push towards modern, but tasteful architecture.
The underground/railcar transit system is a bit under the weather, but keep in mind that it is the oldest subway system in America. Lately, they have been putting a lot of money into station overhauls. Some have been simple facelifts, but there are some key stations that have been either built from scratch or dismantled and are being rebuilt. The new airport station is a wonderful example of this as well as what the new Charles/MGH stop will be.
The cost of living here is extremely high, but that is a given for most vibrant cities like San Fran, Chicago, etc. This excites me more than turns me off... to me this means that people with money will work, play, eat, sleep, and live in the city. They'll care about the city - ensuring it will be vibrant and active for generations to come.
I agree about the wine and cheese thing in re: to Michigan fans. I went to a football game and was shocked at how tame 110,000 fans could be. I've been to UGA games - unreal, and very very very hot women. I've been to UVA games - pretty good, and I've been to Syracuse games - wild, loudest stadium I've ever been in....
yeah i agree the 110,000 fans can be tame.
no doubt, but the student section is crazy.
The tradition is still by far the best in the country
just cause they are not busting out of their seats and acting like crazed animals doesn't mean much
yeah UGA games are much crazier but they are not more loyal fans.
i turned this into a football discussion and i apologize for it but there is not a single team in the country with more loyal fans than UofM.
People look forward to those football saturdays all year, call it what u want but MICHIGAN FOOTBALL RULES
you are all jealous
and yes the food in the south is much better
if you grew up in southeast michigan, went to uofm, you'd understand
best football program ever
The women at UGA are hott!!, but you can say that bout Michigan State and Flordia State as well. And the tailgate at MSU is second to none. Anyways I love aa. I'm not saying it is the best city to live in. Chicago is.
arizona state women are far more hot than anywhere else, far less tame, but the football suck(ed). i noticed that at the big house most of the season ticket holders are alumni, the student section is pathetically small, which is why its so tame although it is the greatest football program in the universe of course.
the wolverines got to see a true fan frenzy up in eugene last year - 50,000 strong and the loudest stadium in the country.
if it weren'y so expensive, i'd have to give a shout to SF as the at the top of places to live. a progressive, beautiful city with great neighborhoods and great people. there are moments in SF (Bay area) when you think to yourself- things really cant get much better. (shit, we almost elected a green mayor).
that being said the summer weather sucks and the architectural culture and community is way too conservative.
I got San diego, Detoit, and New orleans on my list of potential spots to move. Any Information?
Best place to live in US?
ted, sorry for possibly mistating the costs, but wasn't there a report just done on the most expensive places to live in the world and london ranked number 2? >>
http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/11/pf/costofliving/
i agree with people adjusting to circumstance and that they should not make the decision to move just on money. while i have not lived in any of the top 10 most expensive places, i have lived in 4 of the top 100 most expensive places on the list and they are expensive just as any big city will be.
I have a friend who lives in Boulder CO. That place sounds awesome!! How about other small college cities like Ann Arbor, Charlottesville, Madison, Columbus, Tuscon?
for those in seattle and those that give a shit:
i think it's a great place to be in the rain season, b/c when the sun comes out the place is a ghost town. there are so many people here that think of the city as a gigantic suburb, that they all disappear into the mountains in summer. not that this is a bad thing, it's just that the feeling of an urban experience is gone when you walk down a neighborhood street and see no one in sight, yet hundreds of cars on there way somewhere else. a sense of place is forgotten.
Not to be a gluten for gloomy days, but the urban experience is much more dramatic and interesting in the rain season. if anyone plans on moving out here, remember to not expect much from weekends in summertime.
PDX, OR gets a free pass every discussion becaue it's frickin' badass here. It's so sweet here, who the f' cares about where you can fly to? If you're into travelling other places all the time, then you don't need a cool place to live.
To each his own. I think the only problem I have with Portland is the fact that Oregon's economy is horrible, and there still doesn't seem to be any bright future....unless they can somehow attract dozens of high tech and warehousing companies (which will never happen because of California ports and Seattle being so close). On the flip side, this has kept Portland the only big city on the west coast that has still kept its gritty cultures and working class heritage.
Seattle's cool, but what Portland has to offer in comparison is a much more heightened sense of community, and richer diversity in the different sub-cultures. In my opinion , Seattle has gone over the hump, becoming more and more homogenous by the year. Rich people (stereotypically) are great for the city, but tend to kill the advancement of progressive music/art/design etc. Portland's Pearl District is still not big enough to be detrimental to that scene, whereas even Belltown is becoming too shiny-happy.
Portlands' unique to the US. There's no place quite iike it, just like Chicago, Miami, LA, NY, and Boston. What makes it better to me is it's history of progressive urban planning, sense of community despite large population, and relatively high value of living vs. cost of living.
my two cents
sorry, to clarify
PDX is not the only city with the gritty sub cultures and working class heritage.....i think it's the only west coast metropolis that can legitimately claim to still be predominantly working class. I think you're typical portlander is more interested in the community's success than his/her own, vs. the supposed majority in other west coast metros.
e,
those listings are absolutely meaningless rate quantitatively apples and apples and dont appreciate cultural /social differences.
everyone adjust when they go to whatever city they are going to. if you go to a place and insist upon continuing a standard that doesnt fit culturally / socially with where you are, you will pay out of the nose for it.
if i went to an estate agent in london that catered to expats coming abroad, i would be shown THE most expensive big flats. americans that had kids in london sent there kids to 'the american school' for $20k per kid per year when the uk system of k-12 is far better than the us and considering they speak english, it was ridiculus for their kids to miss that cultural experience.
the standard 1 bed in chi town is about 800-1000 sf. in london, perhaps more like 500sf. so if you compare a 800-1000 sf flat in london, your probably looking at a 2-3 bed flat, texas size. i suspect those comparisons in the cnn article do the same. a 1 bed flat in tokyo is no bigger than a toilet stall.
live like an american in london v. a european and you will pay.
people, young architects in uk, do own property, do travel and are having a great time.
ted, i said i agree about adjusting to circumstance ie. social differences, cultural difference, etc. i am not argueing about these points. i'm just saying, it's expensive. it has nothing to do with expats looking for the largest most expensive flat. i've lived in some of these expensive places that are on the list, and maybe you can dispute the order of the list, but the places on the list are damn expensive to live in. i don't have a problem with saying that seattle is an expensive place to live, and with that expense comes a lot of great things, just as in london.
hey e.....
i was just trying to build on the article you quoted was with regard to expat spending habits!!!
"Mercer's researchers priced a basket of more than 200 goods and services in each city that reflects expatriate spending habits. "
expat spending habits do not reflects us regular guys.....
that aint me and that aint you, i suspect.
i still argue, it really appears much more expensive on the surface than it is once you.....go with the flow....if i go to starbucks UK, i pay 3.00 pound for a grande latte [$5.50 or so] but i could go to the local italian deli throughout london and get a better latte for 1.80 pounds. for some ungodly reason, the brits have changed alliance and stand in line for their starbucks v. the shop down the road.
archiphreak - My opinion on savannah is that its a good place to visit, but not to live. I have been here for 3 years and its really getting old. The crime is a problem, moreso than other larger cities. It has a huge historical significance, but that doesnt mean livability. of course we have the whole bar/nightlife scene, but meh... There is no point in coming to savannah and not living in downtown. I know a lot of people that have come here and live on the outskirts or far away, and its just not worth it. To experience the town you should be able to bike or walk around downtown rather than drive. Its a walking friendly town. And the architecture here is old styled, bland, overdone, etc. in my opinion anyway. but maybe I'm missing the good stuff.
you might like it here if you like an extremely laid back beach community rich in history and in a small compact setting. Its suprising how small the "real" or downtown savannah is. and oh boy with all the college peple here the rent can get out of hand, with the locals charging rediculous rents, but I guess thats to be expected.
so what do you guys think about Pittsburgh? I have family there and have visited several times, an dI always like it and enjoy myself, but then again that is visiting the city which can be completely different from living there.
ah, i get the expat comment now. apologies for that. as for the starbucks vs. the local cafe, that's just the stupidity of peeps that we can't do anything about. dumb people will do what dumb people do especially when they have more money than they know what to do with. the grande double shot americano i get at my local cafe is $1.60, and no, that's not one of the thousands of starbucks in seattle. i don't even know how much it costs there because i won't go there. their coffee sucks.
why do people gravity toward the mass marketed crap, even though it's worse than similar products that aren't mass marketed?
chicago
the weather sucks in the winter but that keeps this city from becoming over populated.
everyone that lives in the west/east coast STAY THERE!!!!
yes chicago is the only hope for the midwest but it kicks ass
Ann Arbor is the best college town
Chicago is the best city
I have been to chicago once,and really loved the atmosphere. Its the largest city I have been to - besides toronto - an dI really enjoyed the urban feel. I cold see myself living there. an dI love rain and snow!
well on the topic of best cities...
what is the process that people go through to go to another country to live and work for an undetermined period of time. I know one of my buddies considered london, but what is the process? just a work visa? do you have to have dual citizenship? any help is appreciated
You would need to apply for a work visa, and depending on your career status and how much money you are willing to pay, it could be more or less time consuming, more or less expensive. There are all kinds of organizations that help arrange work visas, a good bet is to go to the Embassy/cultural organization for the country you want to work in and find out what programs they offer. I did one quite a while ago for France, and honestly I don't remember the details but it wasn't incredibly expensive. I did however have trouble finding a job once I got to France, and ended up working under the table for a friend so I didn't need the visa anyway. Also, I think it was only a 6 month visa program for recent grads or something. Remember that having the visa(or ability to get one) is only the beginning. The catch is that unless you have a lot of cash, you probably won't want to get the visa before you have a job, and in many cases you probably can't get it until you have a job secured, but employers won't want to hire you until you already have it. To be honest most of the people I know who live and work in foreign countries either went to school there and then stayed, or have family(spouses or parents) from that country who sponsored them or paid their way for a while until they could get a job. My husband and I would love to move to Europe to work, but I think it is not realistic for a couple unless you have some decent savings and are further along in your career. I do have a friend from Switzerland who came here to work and made it. But, she had a pre-arranged job with a Swiss-owned firm here that sponsored her, and I think she got it through a former employer over there who was friends with them. She did change jobs once and extended her visa, but it limited her options in terms of being able to change jobs. Her visa finally expired again and she took her american boyfriend and left...
sorry to say, but after living in Boston, LA, Ann Arbor, and the San Francisco Bay Area for a number of years each, the Bay Area (especially if you're in San Fran, Oakland or Berkeley) is hard to beat overall
I've only visited Pittsburgh once and I thought the neighborhoods on Mount Washington were quite nice. Don't know anything about living there though.
I've got to agree with J's post above. I went to college in Chicago and the shitty, shitty weather nine months of the year is a MAJOR factor in quality of living. For months at a time most of downtown is packed into icy grey snow that just sits around sucking up exhaust from passing traffic. The blistering cold and arctic wind sucked down out of Hyperborea can occasionally feel like a living, malevolent force. If you went outdoors without a hat between October and April, people would look at you like you're insane. Plus, the weather warps people's perceptions: the first late-April day that the mercury rises over 50 every asshole in the city is in shorts by the lake with their dog. Given, spring is glorious for two weeks, until the sweltering summer begins and legions of the elderly begin dropping dead. Maybe 5% of all residential buildings in Chicago have air-conditioning, central or otherwise.
I live in Austin now, which is conspicuously absent from this discussion thread. It's admittedly hot in the summer, and most of the hype about the city is overblown: cf. all that shit about Austin being the "live music capital of the world." That's true, in that every taqueria you walk into will probably have a lousy Stevie Ray Vaughan tribute band playing, but there's very little musical diversity beyond blues and indie rock. Even the much-hyped SXSW is disappointingly homogenous. The pace of living here is easy, though, and it's nice to have a break from the runaway ambient anxiety of life on the East coast. And it's extremely cheap. I don't plan on staying here after graduation; I'll probably move to either S.F., NYC or abroad. I'm also partial to Toronto and Montreal, but yes, I know, they're freezing.
Also, what a laughable conceit that London or anywhere in the U.K. is a nice place to live. Visit, yes. Live, definitely not.
bz,
there is a reason why Austin is absent from this discussion thread.
london is european and isnt to the liking of most amerians as a place to live. agreed.
people dont like not having their own private transport, those little nasty refridgerators in flats arent nothing like my 23 cuft stainless steel amana with my on-demand ice maker/filtered water....talk about no AC, no where, anywhere, anytime, not even in offices... for god sakes the windows in the office i worked in...well they opened...and you know on some days....well, i sweated.....how crude.[the germans in my office really smelled bad some days.....]
perhaps suggesting a spot to visit next time your there may have you take a second look at uk, american style.
visit sheffield meadow hall shopping mall. it was built outside the sheffield city center and caused the abandoned the city center, very close to the M1, the big highway that leads to the north, lots and lots of easy parking and has every franchised single high street store you are used to in austin[may even have a tex mex place as well]. and the standing seam green paint roofs and fancy ornamental stamped metal that looks sooo much like....well sort of like old copper .....i guess....if you squint. this will soon probably be a listed historic places soon because the government and CABE has come out and said .....we shouldnt and wont be building developments that destroy our city centers in the future......and you know what....they are actually supporting this belief and building projects like the amazing sucessful bullring in birmingham; a 1.2 mil sf urban shopping mall that energizes the existing city streets that connect the mall at 3 different street levels with futures systems' selfridges finishing the edge. ....and they do have a parking garage, just incase you drive. if you want to understand how a national government can set a standard for strong sustainble framework goals that communities and local councils can build upon visit http://www.cabe.org.uk/ . to see it in action visit birmingham.
42 and austin have texas in common and we understand where the vision of our country is going.
i should acknowledge that i work for the uk tourist board and get a bob or two by posting a note or two that promote uk tourism. not.
architecture and urban planning in the uk = optimism.
look
nothing beats an football saturday in Ann Arbor
nothing
with a stadium with over 100,000 ann arbor IS special. i've been there for many games and loved when they passed people around the stands. but then again, college football in the south IS really what its all about.
college football has the same passion uk football has. players are fast, trim and fit.
i think pro football in us is about battering ram obese fat boys that would get winded on a 50 yard dash. not atheletes that i enjoy look at. and we have the bears and they suck.
Ann ARbor the best college town, please.
It has totally crappy weather - every football game is like 30 deg and cloudy....
It's easier to stay in studio when the weather is crappy...
yeah like uofm fans give a shit bout the weather,
who cares
if you need it to be 80 and sunny to enjoy a football game you suck
football rules
Michigan has one of the best football traditions in the country
i hope for shitty weather, it makes the games more fun
Newark NJ
Re: LA
keep in mind, I came here for architecture school and have not lived the kind of life people imagine or actually live here.
however, from what i've experienced in 3 years, the main drawback is that despite being the 2nd largest metropolitan city in the US, LA is pretty provincial (in addition to NY, and NE, I lived in Paris, parts of Asia and went to college outside of LA-- in a college town)-- the city seems to attract large numbers of provincial, uninformed people. and unfortunately, the whole car culture and sprawl of the city do not encourage personal growth, meaning joe idiot from somewhere else will always remain joe idiot, except he'll only think he's become super savvy and cool living in LA. people here are also flaky, flaky, flaky. also, there are too many egomaniacs here and on the other side of the spectrum, i've met more clinically depressed people here than anywhere else-- and they are unwilling to do anything to get help.
also, too many parts of the city just shut down at 10pm-- this is not a 24-hour town like NY.
LA drivers are the worst drivers in the world.
having said that, LA has the potential to be a great city-- all the ingredients are there, but it's too much work to make them all work for you. and if you do meet one cool person, it is very rare and few, which makes it more rewarding but there's too many schlubs to go through.
i do like the laidback attitude though, and seeing jack nicholson in person was nice-- he's really all that. but then, that's not normal and routine.
I visited Ann Arbor last year, I found it to be the most overrated place I had ever gone. From everything I had heard about it being this great college town, etc. I found it so overblown. I think I had a better time visiting MIT...lol
Did you see all of Ann Arbor? Was it the summer or winter? Nothing is worse than MIT, that's not even funny.
well, i have to say that i agree with DJ that ann arbor is overrated, but i don't know if its the most overrated place i've ever been. the fact that it is overrated doesn't mean its necessarily bad. when i first moved to a2 i was disappointed, but in discovered what it has to offer in the last couple years i'm happy with it. the summers are great here. it isn't san diego or boston, but come on, it only has 200,000 people there's no comparison. as far as snotty weather is concerned, i grew up in the midwest and i like to ski, so i don't mind it. i lived in phoenix for a few years and while it was nice to always have sunshine, i was also pretty much bored by the consistency. some people like the four seasons.
And there's Dominic's.
oh yeah, i forgot about dominics...if you visit ann arbor in the summer you have to go to dominics. mr. gift you just got me so pumped up i might have to go have some sangria later to wash off my hour long commute!
someone quite a ways back was complaining about the large quantity of sunshine in Denver.....*blink*....since when can you have too much good weather? I like living in the Denver area....other than the traffic sucks at rush hour....but the city has a great acoustic music organization in Swallow Hill...lots of great restaurants and clubs....an excellent park system and as was noted, the bike paths extend all over the metro area....and the best part is that you can get lost in some spectacular mountains in just a few hours and leave the puters and cell phones far behind.
but more important the broncos have Hayden Epstein, 2nd year kicker out of michigan......
He was good. Michigan misses him very much.
In over 7 years here, I have yet to attend a Broncos game...or a Nuggets game....have been to a few Rockies games, courtesy of contractors giving me tickets, and once to an Avalache game, same courtesy. But pro sports tickets in general, anywhere in the country I suspect, are way overpriced for us working stiffs....at least those of us with families. So, while I enjoy watching a game once in a while on the tube....I prefer to spend a weekend backpacking in the mountains rather than fighting for a parking space and dealing with the traffic hassles getting to and from a pro sports event...and those hot dogs and beer prices are ridiculous also....oh yeah, and I freely admit to being a cheapskate. I am an architect, not a real estate developer, with the corresponding thin wallet.
soleprop: that was me... and that depends on what you consider good weather.
i might ask how someone could tire of lovely overcast days and a nice light, yet constant, rain which keeps everything clean and green? it's been 85-90 for 5 days here in PDX now and i'm hating life again. summer sucks.
crillywazzy....well, I guess that is what makes the world go round....I will take the blue skies and sunshine any day, thanks. Nothing like sitting on top of a 14er and soaking in a little sunshine....
i miss Dominic's.............damn
these are suprising answers for architects.
Portland, OR
LA, CA
Outside of the US, i'd say Tokyo-
its actually surprising to find so many people bitching here about LA-
but LA dont give a rat's ass i guess!!!!!
any place is what one makes of it, i think and people land up in certain cities for jobs, or other specific reasons - i dont think anyone goes to a city based on its 'quality of living' - its just something that happens when you are busy looking for opportunities and stuff. or so i think
Boston is a wonderful city. One of the best things about the city in my opinion is that it is a "walking city" - where you could walk from end-to-end in an hour or two.
Historically, it really can't be beat and there has been a more recent push towards modern, but tasteful architecture.
The underground/railcar transit system is a bit under the weather, but keep in mind that it is the oldest subway system in America. Lately, they have been putting a lot of money into station overhauls. Some have been simple facelifts, but there are some key stations that have been either built from scratch or dismantled and are being rebuilt. The new airport station is a wonderful example of this as well as what the new Charles/MGH stop will be.
The cost of living here is extremely high, but that is a given for most vibrant cities like San Fran, Chicago, etc. This excites me more than turns me off... to me this means that people with money will work, play, eat, sleep, and live in the city. They'll care about the city - ensuring it will be vibrant and active for generations to come.
new york.
Places are what you make of them.
"gainesville, i think, has the best parties, but its a bit muggy. tuscaloosa has the best looking girls."
I'll second that!! Good times. I'd say Gainesville had some pretty good looking girls, too! Great architecture program, with a great view!
I agree about the wine and cheese thing in re: to Michigan fans. I went to a football game and was shocked at how tame 110,000 fans could be. I've been to UGA games - unreal, and very very very hot women. I've been to UVA games - pretty good, and I've been to Syracuse games - wild, loudest stadium I've ever been in....
yeah i agree the 110,000 fans can be tame.
no doubt, but the student section is crazy.
The tradition is still by far the best in the country
just cause they are not busting out of their seats and acting like crazed animals doesn't mean much
yeah UGA games are much crazier but they are not more loyal fans.
i turned this into a football discussion and i apologize for it but there is not a single team in the country with more loyal fans than UofM.
People look forward to those football saturdays all year, call it what u want but MICHIGAN FOOTBALL RULES
you are all jealous
and yes the food in the south is much better
if you grew up in southeast michigan, went to uofm, you'd understand
best football program ever
The women at UGA are hott!!, but you can say that bout Michigan State and Flordia State as well. And the tailgate at MSU is second to none. Anyways I love aa. I'm not saying it is the best city to live in. Chicago is.
arizona state women are far more hot than anywhere else, far less tame, but the football suck(ed). i noticed that at the big house most of the season ticket holders are alumni, the student section is pathetically small, which is why its so tame although it is the greatest football program in the universe of course.
"And the tailgate at MSU is second to none. "
while you duck and cover from gunplay....
i absolutely couldn't imagine going to school at a worse place than Flint Mich...lol
Half of the SEC teams have fans that are equal or better than Mich. fans.
And back to the living thing - what do people in Ann Arbor do for fun? Roadtrip to Detroit? lol
MSU isn't in Flint.
the wolverines got to see a true fan frenzy up in eugene last year - 50,000 strong and the loudest stadium in the country.
if it weren'y so expensive, i'd have to give a shout to SF as the at the top of places to live. a progressive, beautiful city with great neighborhoods and great people. there are moments in SF (Bay area) when you think to yourself- things really cant get much better. (shit, we almost elected a green mayor).
that being said the summer weather sucks and the architectural culture and community is way too conservative.
I got San diego, Detoit, and New orleans on my list of potential spots to move. Any Information?
5000
Arizona women are hairy beasts that don't appreciate the finer things in life, like a shower.
Signed,
Uof Minn women, U of Wisconsin women, Seattle hippies, and the state of Michigan
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