that the relief efforts in New Orleans has been slow in coming. I'm still waking up to see victims in desparate situations-the dead or dying lying next to relatives. this is a state emergency, and yet little to no immediate help is being provided. i'm frustrated. the greatest country in the world responding to a national disaster with such inefficiency?
I agree. I sure dont see any other countries around the world comming to our aid any time soon the way we do when the shit hits the fan in other parts of the planet. I dont expect it from Angola but c'mon Spain, UK, France, Germany, Japan, Isreal, Turkey, etc - how many times have we cleaned up messes in your lands?
but we don't know really know what's been done or hasn't and i'm sure that the scene is confusing and dangerous. we see the most provocative footage - that being what the news feels is important enough to show us. and when the worst of human nature (fear, desperation, aggression) gets in the way of the best of human nature, well, complicated things get that much more complicated.
why be so quick to judge when i'm sure everyone is doing what they can? does it help in some way?
not per corell- by no means am i being judegmental, but lets face it this incident occured how many days ago? the operation just simply hasnt been swift. i'm seeing hundreds and hundreds asking for food and health aid, and thats good enough for me to condemn the preliminary efforts to save these people as inefficient.
tell you what's strange: it's too difficult to get food and water to the people stuck on freeways; but somehow we can manage live satellite hookups to the other side of the world...
where's the leadership? just drop some supplies for starters and make their situations better....how many milatary bases are there within a ten hour drive? they should be all over the place by now helping out. it's sad how confused the
reaction to provide immediate assistance has been.
And according to this article
, two dozen nations have offered aid:
Offers have been received from Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States.
President Bush says this country can take care of itself:
"I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we hadn't asked for it. I do expect a lot of sympathy and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country's going to rise up and take care of it. You know, we would love help, but we're going to take care of our own business as well, and there's no doubt in my mind we'll succeed. And there's no doubt in my mind, as I sit here talking to you, that New Orleans is going to rise up again as a great city."
i know germany has (or is) sending help.
also, before we go ripping into the rest of the world, maybe we need to look at how our gov't has handled this. two days ago, bush was out golfing. our resources are insuffient because some much is going into iraq.
i'd be very surprised if europe would turn us away if we actually asked for help.
speaking of resources in Iraq... the A/E/C industry is in for a real shock, prices are going to skyrocket. the fuel shortage is just the tip of the iceberg. asphalt prices are going way up (petrol based), along with other raw materials that will be in heavy demand as they rush to rebuild down there.
i agree the US gov'ts response has been pretty poor, and saying that we can handle it ourselves... thats just frikkin stupid, just say thank you and smile.
i really hope this is the beginning of the end for bush... inflation is looming over us like a black cloud, oil prices just keep climbing... unfortunately its looking like he is going to take all of us with him.
We all seem to agree abt our disdain for bush,JR. The dumbest occupant of 1600Penn, in my lifetime.. But, I just hope that, as a nation, we can put that aside & do what it takes to provide true relief, Fast.
I'm already sick of the Left/Right blaming going on. That's b.s.
sorry mystery man, but it situations like this where a president should shine. the reality is, he has put us in a position where we aren't fully prepared to deal w/ the recovery effort. to call him out for this far from b.s.
the fact that someone is critical of bush does not affect their ability to provide help.
50 diver fully equipped amphibian unit is on standby in turkish naval base with four helicopters loaded up.and another plane is idle at the tarmak loaded with tents.
they are waiting for request from united states.
we do have the resources, it's all about will and leadership.
we are listening to NPR in the office and there was a guy on who was talking about the "tabletop" plan for the recovery from Hypothetical Hurricane "Pam" that several agencies had been "working on". they hadn't "finished" the plan, which the guy hastened to add was only for the "recovery" and not for the immediate aftermath. they did not even take into account that the levees around NO would be breached in their plan.
it's bureaucratic busywork and you can't exclusively blame bush for it. indeed, why didn't the democrat mayor of NO and democrat governor of LA have plans? they can't be exclusively blamed either. of course, they have actually been doing something about it...
i agree with the post that said we should concentrate more on doing something than playing the left and right blame game. the american red cross sure could use our money and our blood.
if someone from new orleans was offered aid from anywhere right now, i bet they would take it and be grateful. we may be able to do it ourselves, it just doesn't mean we have to.
for the government to say no thanks is a bad move politically, much less for the people down there. this just makes us look more like the typical "head stuck up there own ass american" that seems to be the world opinion at this point. aslso, they may be less likely to help if we ever need it again (hurricane season is not over, and "the big one" still lurks in the shadows under los angeles).
is it pride getting in the way? or is the government scared they will be letting in terrorists? what gives?
If abra's right and there are countries willing to send in transportation and W hasn't called up anybody and asked for it, I think he's going to have a lot of blood on his hands.
I am not sure what is going on. This is day 4, after the hurricane...which also wasn't really a surpise to anyone of how bad it would be leading up to when it would hit land. My sense is that the response has been and is slow...regardless of the horrid conditions. Is it a fatique of some sort, due to constant crisis that we have had to live with and endure for the last 4 years...9/11, 2 wars, a bitter election, last year's hurricanes, on top of an already edgy and vulnerable economy?
I am not interested in personally blaming Bush for this specific instance, but anyone who has ever had to survive on a tight budget then be confronted with crisis in their lives, can understand that we as a country are beyond our limits as to how much we can endure, let own act in times of crisis. To anyone that voted for Bush and supports the current administration policies...
+ THIS is why you should avoid budget deficits and not "refund-away" budget surpluses in the first year of your presidency. A "rainy day fund" is good for everyone...even Republicans.
+ THIS is why you don't piss off your allies. Nice to hear that for "our tsunami", "the 9/11 of NO", or whatever it is being called...nobody from beyond our borders has really stepped forward on their own to help as we have for them. I wonder how long it will take Karl Rove to realize that having governors and mayors pleading SOS! is not a positive political point for the president.
+ THIS is why you invest in domestic infrastructure and alternative energy programs and not in tax cuts, missle defense, or clean coal technology. Kinda hard to get transporation companies aboard with providing buses when fuel prices are going through the roof. Generosity has a tendancy to wane in times where one's own financial livelihood is in peril.
+ THIS is why you make nice with the NAACP and talk to them when you run for president. I am sure the poor, black population that is sweltering in the southern heat with no food and water right now is calm and comforted to know Bush Jr. has always looked for them.
+ THIS is what the Clinton Presidency understood and fought for after years of domestic neglect and trickle-down economic theory under Reagan and Bush Sr.. Whether or not you cared for him as person, his policies and priorities were sound, fair, and in large part...successful.
Although I expect things are going to getting worse before getting better...I am confident that our country will get through this eventually. I just fear the consequences and the missed opportunities that will never come about because of this administration's misguided priorites.
i've heard it in turkish state radio this morning. i am sure it is true if read in the news. the unit includes bilingual divers trained in search and rescue. they are going to dive and perhaps save human lives, pick up the dead and save animals. this help is priceless and i am sure other nations are also in standby to help as well. these teams know the precedure and ready to take orders from local commanders or people in charge.
president telling to the world 'we can take care our own' but seems having a hell of a time rescuing people waiting to get on a school bus.
New Zealand is also standing by - waiting to deliver aid, people, whatever. A few years ago, New Zealand [and Australia I think] sent over specialist fire fighters to aid the Los Angeles forest fires.
NZ offers help to US
2/09/2005 10:16:03
New Zealand has offered hurricane assistance to the United States.
Foreign Minister Phil Goff has been in touch with the White House and the US State Department. He says as a friend of the United States, New Zealand stands ready to help. Mr Goff says the response from the Americans has been thanks for the offer, but there has been no request for specific assistance as yet.
Federal flood control spending for southeastern Louisiana has been chopped from $69 million in 2001 to $36.5 million in 2005, according to budget documents. Federal hurricane protection for the Lake Pontchartrain vicinity in the Army Corps of Engineers' budget dropped from $14.25 million in 2002 to $5.7 million this year. Louisiana Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu requested $27 million this year.
Both the New Orleans Times-Picayune newspaper and a local business magazine reported that the effects of the budget cuts at the Army Corps of Engineers were severe.
In 2004, the Corps essentially stopped major work on the now-breached levee system that had protected New Orleans from flooding. It was the first such stoppage in 37 years, the Times-Picayune reported.
"It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay," Jefferson Parish emergency management chief Walter Maestri told the newspaper. "Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."
it might help if the people of new orleans stopped shooting at rescue helicopters before we start sending in foreign workers. this is a really sad situation and it reflects really poorly on americans...it seems to me as though too many of us have had too much comfort in our lives and now that some of us are faced with tragedy we lack the resolve to work in out in a constructive manner. i don't intend to condemn the people of new orleans because i feel this could be the reaction of any one of us if we were in a similar situation. still, it's just so sad to read how the "ample gun and ammunition supply" was one of the first things looted at walmart and now people are even shooting at those attempting to help. sad.
Leaders of the World - please send help to the attention of the mayor of New Orleans, our president has his head firmly inserted in his arse and cannot make
any good decisions, he's selfish, isolated from reality, and slow to react.
Also, please excuse his ignorance, the south gulf coast of the US needs help and we're thankful for your offers. if I was sweltering away in an attic waiting to be rescued, think I'd give a damn what country the person was from? help is help
btw- if bush thinks he's going to get a warm welcome down there tomorrow then
he's dumber than we thought... i mean they were shooting at rescuers today.
okay i didnt read all the posts, so this might have been covered, but it seems that if the entire world knew that a level five hurricane was heading straight for a major city that lay below sea level that perhaps a bit of pre hurricane disaster thinking would have occurred. for example, in a hurricane drill a year or so ago it was learned that over 25 percent of the city's residents said they wouldnt evacuate. so, armed with information like this, one would think that perhaps emergency water and rations could have been readied before katrina actually hit. and perhaps more troops couldve been mobilized and brought into the city at a much faster rate. next time i guess...
The response to 9/11 was fast, seemingly, and the response in NOLA has seemingly been slow -- but there's this question -- in NYC there was everything they needed right there in the city; the infrastructure is gone, basically for the entire length of the gulf -- where the hell do you set up shop to help? It's not very surprisng that help has been slow.
And when 25 percent of people said they wouldn't evacuate (and probably didn't) -- what do you do then? Exactly what we've seen done -- not much you CAN do.
And as for food and water being on hand before (preparedness) -- it wasn't supposed to hit NOLA -- only in the last few hours at sea did they realize it was coming ashore directly at the delta.
I wouldn't exactly say the response to 9/11 was fast, considering they had lost contact with multiple airliners for over an hour and never scrambled jets, which was the protocol… Having lived in NO, I know that this drill goes down many times each year. I personally would have heeded the “mandatory evacuationâ€, that was unique to prior hurricane threats, but I have to wonder about a possible, underlying significance.
I grew up in Lafayette, 2 hrs away. There have been 5 rape cases today. There seems to be a side of human nature, at least with people believing that they are repressed (the have not’s), that troubles me the most. I am hearing storied of people that have been without food and water for days asking why supplies have not come and wonder why myself.
New Orleans will be rebuilt. As an architect, I cannot compare this scenario with anything that has happened before. I live and work in LA and the cost of building materials already baffles me, but what it would take to rebuild a city the size of NO would surely drive prices up further. I am considering moving home to be a part of the rebuild, not as a humanitarian, but as an architect.
I have to think that the kaos following this catastrophe must say something about a repressed frustration with the politics/social progress governing our existance.
" I sure dont see any other countries around the world comming to our aid any time soon the way we do when the shit hits the fan in other parts of the planet" ... so why don't you ask bush junior to invade them? im sure itll be the self righteous thing to do. or maybe, shockingly, money can be chanelled from the funding for arms manufacturing or warfare spenditure in never-was-a-threat iraq ...i'm sure u can buy even half of spain with that anyways. nature and bush are giving many other people in the other countries a chance to be smug and self righteous in turn. ' a curse on both your families'...sick.
the very latest bushism: (rephrased) we'd like the other countries to send contributions in cash dollars
cash ... dollars
I am really sorry for what happen in the US. I just get the felling that you are not in touch with the international sentiment. You have not stepped to "clean the mess anywhere" - sorry to say, the US has caused it. Your perception of yourselves is at odds with the reality as seen from beyond the US borders.
While I believe most people would share on the sadness of what has occurred at a humanitarian level, it is very hard to separate this from the politics of your country which has produced so much misery around the world. Certainly the 120,000 + people dead in Iraq cannot come to your help, no can the disappeared, torture and killed in Chile on 9/11 (1973), or the North Vietnamese....
I wish I could see a little of self criticism coming from the US, more so when we are talking among educated professional, with inquisitive minds...
The world has seen two global, almost cataclysmic disasters, in less than two years (Asian Tsunami and Katrina). The US is the largest (or second largest after Australia) producer of greenhouse gases and has done nothing to prevent it… or at least nothing that can make it accountable to the rest of the world.
We all share this planet; we all have the rights and obligations to it and no country should be less accountable that its neighbour. The US may be the “best nation in the world†to some of you, to the rest ¾ of the world it is only the most powerful – and please think of what this term means.
By the way, this is the only world disaster in which one of the features has been people shooting others… Don’t want to make you feel bad, but please reflect on what you have – a bit of self- criticism may be your best contribution to the world.
If we want to learn anything from this terrible experience, I would suggest to read:
next blast of greenhouse gas that comes out of my butt has your name on it beatrizcristina!
News Flsah - - - New Orleans has Pirates. - Pirates reside in New Orleans. We all new this. A 90 year old man in Michigan with terminal cancer is going to live that extra 10 days for the cost of a better levy down south - every time.
beatrizcristina, I don't necessarily disagree with what you've said, you're right that greenhouse gas is a global issue and the States has to take responsibility for being a major contributor to it, I wish we/this administration would.
But you know - nice of you to fuckin' kick us when we're down, you utterly selfish asshole. I'm crying my eyes out every night over what's happening to my fellow citizens, you think at this moment I want to hear your whining? Go to hell.
And you know, I'm normally one of the least aggressive/most trying to be helpful people on this forum, but your post is just so fucking obnoxious you made me lose my temper.
You are totally missing the point here; it was not me who gave the order of "shoot and kill them! " - which shows how property is valued above humanitarian need.
Unfortunately it never seems to be a good time for the some US citizens to reflect - things are always to good to even consider on own doing, or too damned bad to be reminded of the responsibilities...
Aggression comes in the form of shooting, wars or your own words, what's wrong with you people?
By the way, the articles above weren't written by me, and their are much harsher that any thing I have said, which by the way, was intended to be discussed, rather than to starting a lynching.
From The Boston Globe: Katrina's real name
By Ross Gelbspan | August 30, 2005 |
“Unfortunately, very few people in America know the real name of Hurricane Katrina because the coal and oil industries have spent millions of dollars to keep the public in doubt about the issue.
The reason is simple: To allow the climate to stabilize requires humanity to cut its use of coal and oil by 70 percent. That, of course, threatens the survival of one of the largest commercial enterprises in history.(....)â€
dear beatrizcristina,
just so you know better. this country have never lacked self critisism and freedom of speech. as a matter of fact, these are the strongest guards of american democracy and always omni present in society here. i have read and participated myself on this on going civic american habit of self critisism often. all your links are american authored which shows the contridiction of your claims and suggestions.
your outlook is injustice to our efforts here, trying to change things in our government, military, industrial and foreign policies so the world is a better place.
it is not easy to be an american citizen. we are not a quite bunch of opressed people and our strength comes from our collective self critisism. know that.
there is no place on earth self critisism takes a voice as it does here.
contrary to global belief, we are not a nation of self loathing people and we don't stop critisising until the problems are adressed and discussed.
this is a big nation of real people. we have problems as we have solutions. most of our solutions come from questioning the authority. this tradition of americans often ignored by the rest of the world, who often celebrate our failing moves.
each time there is a disaster of this scale, there are fuck ups and mismanegement, whats new? we don't have a very good leader right now but we had good ones in the past and that will happen again as it always does.
read our constitution. it will give you goose bumps and tears to your eyes. this is an innovative and forward nation and unafraid to fail. whole world is expecting us to be always perfect, forgetting that we are also human beings and evolving.
i am not a flag flashing citizen here, but it is about time the rest of the world starts to know who americans are and gives us support to make things better. because we can..
cut the crap, please, the 'both' of you
patriotism,the 'we' rhetoric, is vulgar and moronic, and attacking 'americans' in the absolute is equally
now hands up, face the corner and drop the trousers
I want to apologize for losing my temper last night. We all reach a boiling point sometimes, I had to vent.
beatriz, good communication is based on understanding the state of mind of your audience. Your post here, your first ever post here, was unreserved criticism of an entire nation that is currently in crisis. Your post came off like a wife who decides that the day her husband loses his job is also good time to tell him she's been faking her orgasms all along - in the interest of helping him improve himself, of course.
It's presumptuous of you to think that you speak for everyone beyond the US borders, that you represent all "international sentiment". The tone of your post is nasty at an inappropriate time.
That being said, I apologize to everyone who does come here looking for discussion among "intelligent professionals with inquisitive minds" that I was so angered by beatriz's comments that I responded in fury.
And as I said at the beginning of my post, beatriz, I don't necessarily disagree with everything you posted, and certainly there are ideas worthy of discussion in those links, but the time and manner in which you posted them was utterly, and selfishly, wrong.
global warming is to Katrina, what dark matter is to the universe. Everyone says its there, but to date there is no conclusive proof whatsoever that a link exists.
Global Warming Has Nothing To Do With It
POSTED 2005-07-22T11:02:12
By James O'Brien
Special to the Sentinel
July 20, 2005
There is some disagreement among climate scientists on the potential impact of global climate change on future hurricanes in the Atlantic Ocean. Last year, claims were made that the frequency of hurricanes will increase due to global climate change.
For example, after Hurricane Bonnie, Charley and Frances hit Florida in 2004, the prime minister of England, Tony Blair, and many other prominent American scientists told the world that the hurricanes were due to global warming.
Luckily scientists who actually regularly study hurricanes quickly responded with the facts, and, for once, the misinformation was curbed quickly and effectively.
But now the alarmists are at it again, claiming that global warming will increase the intensity of hurricanes. Don't worry, readers; there is absolutely no scientific support or correlation of hurricane intensity or hurricane frequency with global warming.
Hurricane scientists and experts actually believe that variations in the Atlantic Ocean Conveyer, not global temperatures, determine the frequency of hurricanes. It is predicted that we will see an increase in the number of Atlantic hurricanes for the next 10-15 years compared to recent years. This is nothing new -- the last peak occurred between 1930 and 1970.
Do we agree?
that the relief efforts in New Orleans has been slow in coming. I'm still waking up to see victims in desparate situations-the dead or dying lying next to relatives. this is a state emergency, and yet little to no immediate help is being provided. i'm frustrated. the greatest country in the world responding to a national disaster with such inefficiency?
I agree. I sure dont see any other countries around the world comming to our aid any time soon the way we do when the shit hits the fan in other parts of the planet. I dont expect it from Angola but c'mon Spain, UK, France, Germany, Japan, Isreal, Turkey, etc - how many times have we cleaned up messes in your lands?
a definite maybe.
but we don't know really know what's been done or hasn't and i'm sure that the scene is confusing and dangerous. we see the most provocative footage - that being what the news feels is important enough to show us. and when the worst of human nature (fear, desperation, aggression) gets in the way of the best of human nature, well, complicated things get that much more complicated.
why be so quick to judge when i'm sure everyone is doing what they can? does it help in some way?
not per corell- by no means am i being judegmental, but lets face it this incident occured how many days ago? the operation just simply hasnt been swift. i'm seeing hundreds and hundreds asking for food and health aid, and thats good enough for me to condemn the preliminary efforts to save these people as inefficient.
tell you what's strange: it's too difficult to get food and water to the people stuck on freeways; but somehow we can manage live satellite hookups to the other side of the world...
evilplatypus is right, the only country I even heard is helping (or pledged help) is Venezuela. Where is the international community?
where's the leadership? just drop some supplies for starters and make their situations better....how many milatary bases are there within a ten hour drive? they should be all over the place by now helping out. it's sad how confused the
reaction to provide immediate assistance has been.
New Orleans has an Air FOrce base right by,
In Gulfport Miss. There was a nice little Air Gurad station I visited once.
their all in Iraq Im sure
And according to this article
, two dozen nations have offered aid:
Offers have been received from Russia, Japan, Canada, France, Honduras, Germany, Venezuela, Jamaica, Australia, the United Kingdom, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, Hungary, Colombia, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, China, South Korea, Israel, the United Arab Emirates, NATO and the Organization of American States.
President Bush says this country can take care of itself:
"I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we hadn't asked for it. I do expect a lot of sympathy and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country's going to rise up and take care of it. You know, we would love help, but we're going to take care of our own business as well, and there's no doubt in my mind we'll succeed. And there's no doubt in my mind, as I sit here talking to you, that New Orleans is going to rise up again as a great city."
interesting...juxtaposition from this blog
i know germany has (or is) sending help.
also, before we go ripping into the rest of the world, maybe we need to look at how our gov't has handled this. two days ago, bush was out golfing. our resources are insuffient because some much is going into iraq.
i'd be very surprised if europe would turn us away if we actually asked for help.
speaking of resources in Iraq... the A/E/C industry is in for a real shock, prices are going to skyrocket. the fuel shortage is just the tip of the iceberg. asphalt prices are going way up (petrol based), along with other raw materials that will be in heavy demand as they rush to rebuild down there.
i agree the US gov'ts response has been pretty poor, and saying that we can handle it ourselves... thats just frikkin stupid, just say thank you and smile.
i really hope this is the beginning of the end for bush... inflation is looming over us like a black cloud, oil prices just keep climbing... unfortunately its looking like he is going to take all of us with him.
We all seem to agree abt our disdain for bush,JR. The dumbest occupant of 1600Penn, in my lifetime.. But, I just hope that, as a nation, we can put that aside & do what it takes to provide true relief, Fast.
I'm already sick of the Left/Right blaming going on. That's b.s.
3ifs your words are wise and ,I fear, prophetic.
MM, who's pointing left or right? i think everyone's pointing to W.
sorry mystery man, but it situations like this where a president should shine. the reality is, he has put us in a position where we aren't fully prepared to deal w/ the recovery effort. to call him out for this far from b.s.
the fact that someone is critical of bush does not affect their ability to provide help.
50 diver fully equipped amphibian unit is on standby in turkish naval base with four helicopters loaded up.and another plane is idle at the tarmak loaded with tents.
they are waiting for request from united states.
we do have the resources, it's all about will and leadership.
we are listening to NPR in the office and there was a guy on who was talking about the "tabletop" plan for the recovery from Hypothetical Hurricane "Pam" that several agencies had been "working on". they hadn't "finished" the plan, which the guy hastened to add was only for the "recovery" and not for the immediate aftermath. they did not even take into account that the levees around NO would be breached in their plan.
it's bureaucratic busywork and you can't exclusively blame bush for it. indeed, why didn't the democrat mayor of NO and democrat governor of LA have plans? they can't be exclusively blamed either. of course, they have actually been doing something about it...
i agree with the post that said we should concentrate more on doing something than playing the left and right blame game. the american red cross sure could use our money and our blood.
if someone from new orleans was offered aid from anywhere right now, i bet they would take it and be grateful. we may be able to do it ourselves, it just doesn't mean we have to.
for the government to say no thanks is a bad move politically, much less for the people down there. this just makes us look more like the typical "head stuck up there own ass american" that seems to be the world opinion at this point. aslso, they may be less likely to help if we ever need it again (hurricane season is not over, and "the big one" still lurks in the shadows under los angeles).
is it pride getting in the way? or is the government scared they will be letting in terrorists? what gives?
If abra's right and there are countries willing to send in transportation and W hasn't called up anybody and asked for it, I think he's going to have a lot of blood on his hands.
of course you mean "more" blood in his hands
I am not sure what is going on. This is day 4, after the hurricane...which also wasn't really a surpise to anyone of how bad it would be leading up to when it would hit land. My sense is that the response has been and is slow...regardless of the horrid conditions. Is it a fatique of some sort, due to constant crisis that we have had to live with and endure for the last 4 years...9/11, 2 wars, a bitter election, last year's hurricanes, on top of an already edgy and vulnerable economy?
I am not interested in personally blaming Bush for this specific instance, but anyone who has ever had to survive on a tight budget then be confronted with crisis in their lives, can understand that we as a country are beyond our limits as to how much we can endure, let own act in times of crisis. To anyone that voted for Bush and supports the current administration policies...
+ THIS is why you should avoid budget deficits and not "refund-away" budget surpluses in the first year of your presidency. A "rainy day fund" is good for everyone...even Republicans.
+ THIS is why you don't piss off your allies. Nice to hear that for "our tsunami", "the 9/11 of NO", or whatever it is being called...nobody from beyond our borders has really stepped forward on their own to help as we have for them. I wonder how long it will take Karl Rove to realize that having governors and mayors pleading SOS! is not a positive political point for the president.
+ THIS is why you invest in domestic infrastructure and alternative energy programs and not in tax cuts, missle defense, or clean coal technology. Kinda hard to get transporation companies aboard with providing buses when fuel prices are going through the roof. Generosity has a tendancy to wane in times where one's own financial livelihood is in peril.
+ THIS is why you make nice with the NAACP and talk to them when you run for president. I am sure the poor, black population that is sweltering in the southern heat with no food and water right now is calm and comforted to know Bush Jr. has always looked for them.
+ THIS is what the Clinton Presidency understood and fought for after years of domestic neglect and trickle-down economic theory under Reagan and Bush Sr.. Whether or not you cared for him as person, his policies and priorities were sound, fair, and in large part...successful.
Although I expect things are going to getting worse before getting better...I am confident that our country will get through this eventually. I just fear the consequences and the missed opportunities that will never come about because of this administration's misguided priorites.
i've heard it in turkish state radio this morning. i am sure it is true if read in the news. the unit includes bilingual divers trained in search and rescue. they are going to dive and perhaps save human lives, pick up the dead and save animals. this help is priceless and i am sure other nations are also in standby to help as well. these teams know the precedure and ready to take orders from local commanders or people in charge.
president telling to the world 'we can take care our own' but seems having a hell of a time rescuing people waiting to get on a school bus.
I AM ASHAMED!!!
New Zealand is also standing by - waiting to deliver aid, people, whatever. A few years ago, New Zealand [and Australia I think] sent over specialist fire fighters to aid the Los Angeles forest fires.
NZ offers help to US
2/09/2005 10:16:03
New Zealand has offered hurricane assistance to the United States.
Foreign Minister Phil Goff has been in touch with the White House and the US State Department. He says as a friend of the United States, New Zealand stands ready to help. Mr Goff says the response from the Americans has been thanks for the offer, but there has been no request for specific assistance as yet.
also red crescent is readying 1500 weatherproof 8 person tents in ankara.
taken from randi rhodes' website:
Federal flood control spending for southeastern Louisiana has been chopped from $69 million in 2001 to $36.5 million in 2005, according to budget documents. Federal hurricane protection for the Lake Pontchartrain vicinity in the Army Corps of Engineers' budget dropped from $14.25 million in 2002 to $5.7 million this year. Louisiana Democratic Sen. Mary Landrieu requested $27 million this year.
Both the New Orleans Times-Picayune newspaper and a local business magazine reported that the effects of the budget cuts at the Army Corps of Engineers were severe.
In 2004, the Corps essentially stopped major work on the now-breached levee system that had protected New Orleans from flooding. It was the first such stoppage in 37 years, the Times-Picayune reported.
"It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay," Jefferson Parish emergency management chief Walter Maestri told the newspaper. "Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us."
it might help if the people of new orleans stopped shooting at rescue helicopters before we start sending in foreign workers. this is a really sad situation and it reflects really poorly on americans...it seems to me as though too many of us have had too much comfort in our lives and now that some of us are faced with tragedy we lack the resolve to work in out in a constructive manner. i don't intend to condemn the people of new orleans because i feel this could be the reaction of any one of us if we were in a similar situation. still, it's just so sad to read how the "ample gun and ammunition supply" was one of the first things looted at walmart and now people are even shooting at those attempting to help. sad.
on another note, today is the first day of National Preparedness Month.
Leaders of the World - please send help to the attention of the mayor of New Orleans, our president has his head firmly inserted in his arse and cannot make
any good decisions, he's selfish, isolated from reality, and slow to react.
Also, please excuse his ignorance, the south gulf coast of the US needs help and we're thankful for your offers. if I was sweltering away in an attic waiting to be rescued, think I'd give a damn what country the person was from? help is help
btw- if bush thinks he's going to get a warm welcome down there tomorrow then
he's dumber than we thought... i mean they were shooting at rescuers today.
okay i didnt read all the posts, so this might have been covered, but it seems that if the entire world knew that a level five hurricane was heading straight for a major city that lay below sea level that perhaps a bit of pre hurricane disaster thinking would have occurred. for example, in a hurricane drill a year or so ago it was learned that over 25 percent of the city's residents said they wouldnt evacuate. so, armed with information like this, one would think that perhaps emergency water and rations could have been readied before katrina actually hit. and perhaps more troops couldve been mobilized and brought into the city at a much faster rate. next time i guess...
The response to 9/11 was fast, seemingly, and the response in NOLA has seemingly been slow -- but there's this question -- in NYC there was everything they needed right there in the city; the infrastructure is gone, basically for the entire length of the gulf -- where the hell do you set up shop to help? It's not very surprisng that help has been slow.
And when 25 percent of people said they wouldn't evacuate (and probably didn't) -- what do you do then? Exactly what we've seen done -- not much you CAN do.
And as for food and water being on hand before (preparedness) -- it wasn't supposed to hit NOLA -- only in the last few hours at sea did they realize it was coming ashore directly at the delta.
I wouldn't exactly say the response to 9/11 was fast, considering they had lost contact with multiple airliners for over an hour and never scrambled jets, which was the protocol… Having lived in NO, I know that this drill goes down many times each year. I personally would have heeded the “mandatory evacuationâ€, that was unique to prior hurricane threats, but I have to wonder about a possible, underlying significance.
I grew up in Lafayette, 2 hrs away. There have been 5 rape cases today. There seems to be a side of human nature, at least with people believing that they are repressed (the have not’s), that troubles me the most. I am hearing storied of people that have been without food and water for days asking why supplies have not come and wonder why myself.
New Orleans will be rebuilt. As an architect, I cannot compare this scenario with anything that has happened before. I live and work in LA and the cost of building materials already baffles me, but what it would take to rebuild a city the size of NO would surely drive prices up further. I am considering moving home to be a part of the rebuild, not as a humanitarian, but as an architect.
I have to think that the kaos following this catastrophe must say something about a repressed frustration with the politics/social progress governing our existance.
" I sure dont see any other countries around the world comming to our aid any time soon the way we do when the shit hits the fan in other parts of the planet" ... so why don't you ask bush junior to invade them? im sure itll be the self righteous thing to do. or maybe, shockingly, money can be chanelled from the funding for arms manufacturing or warfare spenditure in never-was-a-threat iraq ...i'm sure u can buy even half of spain with that anyways. nature and bush are giving many other people in the other countries a chance to be smug and self righteous in turn. ' a curse on both your families'...sick.
the very latest bushism: (rephrased) we'd like the other countries to send contributions in cash dollars
cash ... dollars
Dear All,
I am really sorry for what happen in the US. I just get the felling that you are not in touch with the international sentiment. You have not stepped to "clean the mess anywhere" - sorry to say, the US has caused it. Your perception of yourselves is at odds with the reality as seen from beyond the US borders.
While I believe most people would share on the sadness of what has occurred at a humanitarian level, it is very hard to separate this from the politics of your country which has produced so much misery around the world. Certainly the 120,000 + people dead in Iraq cannot come to your help, no can the disappeared, torture and killed in Chile on 9/11 (1973), or the North Vietnamese....
I wish I could see a little of self criticism coming from the US, more so when we are talking among educated professional, with inquisitive minds...
The world has seen two global, almost cataclysmic disasters, in less than two years (Asian Tsunami and Katrina). The US is the largest (or second largest after Australia) producer of greenhouse gases and has done nothing to prevent it… or at least nothing that can make it accountable to the rest of the world.
We all share this planet; we all have the rights and obligations to it and no country should be less accountable that its neighbour. The US may be the “best nation in the world†to some of you, to the rest ¾ of the world it is only the most powerful – and please think of what this term means.
By the way, this is the only world disaster in which one of the features has been people shooting others… Don’t want to make you feel bad, but please reflect on what you have – a bit of self- criticism may be your best contribution to the world.
If we want to learn anything from this terrible experience, I would suggest to read:
Disaster Engineering, by Kevin Matthews: http://www.architectureweek.com/2005/0831/news_1-1.html
Katrina's real name: Global warming: http://www.boston.com/news/globe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2005/08/30/katrinas_real_name?mode=PF
Hurricane Katrina – View From Asia: http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2005-09/03vltchek.cfm
How the Free Market Killed New Orleans: http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2005-09/03parenti.cfm
Best of luck.
next blast of greenhouse gas that comes out of my butt has your name on it beatrizcristina!
News Flsah - - - New Orleans has Pirates. - Pirates reside in New Orleans. We all new this. A 90 year old man in Michigan with terminal cancer is going to live that extra 10 days for the cost of a better levy down south - every time.
beatrizcristina, I don't necessarily disagree with what you've said, you're right that greenhouse gas is a global issue and the States has to take responsibility for being a major contributor to it, I wish we/this administration would.
But you know - nice of you to fuckin' kick us when we're down, you utterly selfish asshole. I'm crying my eyes out every night over what's happening to my fellow citizens, you think at this moment I want to hear your whining? Go to hell.
And you know, I'm normally one of the least aggressive/most trying to be helpful people on this forum, but your post is just so fucking obnoxious you made me lose my temper.
You are totally missing the point here; it was not me who gave the order of "shoot and kill them! " - which shows how property is valued above humanitarian need.
Unfortunately it never seems to be a good time for the some US citizens to reflect - things are always to good to even consider on own doing, or too damned bad to be reminded of the responsibilities...
Aggression comes in the form of shooting, wars or your own words, what's wrong with you people?
By the way, the articles above weren't written by me, and their are much harsher that any thing I have said, which by the way, was intended to be discussed, rather than to starting a lynching.
From The Boston Globe: Katrina's real name
By Ross Gelbspan | August 30, 2005 |
“Unfortunately, very few people in America know the real name of Hurricane Katrina because the coal and oil industries have spent millions of dollars to keep the public in doubt about the issue.
The reason is simple: To allow the climate to stabilize requires humanity to cut its use of coal and oil by 70 percent. That, of course, threatens the survival of one of the largest commercial enterprises in history.(....)â€
beatriz, your post reinforces an unhelpful 'us and them' mentality.
And your sense of timing is very poor.
bad timing and irelevant to boot.
what's wrong with you beatrizcristina?
dear beatrizcristina,
just so you know better. this country have never lacked self critisism and freedom of speech. as a matter of fact, these are the strongest guards of american democracy and always omni present in society here. i have read and participated myself on this on going civic american habit of self critisism often. all your links are american authored which shows the contridiction of your claims and suggestions.
your outlook is injustice to our efforts here, trying to change things in our government, military, industrial and foreign policies so the world is a better place.
it is not easy to be an american citizen. we are not a quite bunch of opressed people and our strength comes from our collective self critisism. know that.
there is no place on earth self critisism takes a voice as it does here.
contrary to global belief, we are not a nation of self loathing people and we don't stop critisising until the problems are adressed and discussed.
this is a big nation of real people. we have problems as we have solutions. most of our solutions come from questioning the authority. this tradition of americans often ignored by the rest of the world, who often celebrate our failing moves.
each time there is a disaster of this scale, there are fuck ups and mismanegement, whats new? we don't have a very good leader right now but we had good ones in the past and that will happen again as it always does.
read our constitution. it will give you goose bumps and tears to your eyes. this is an innovative and forward nation and unafraid to fail. whole world is expecting us to be always perfect, forgetting that we are also human beings and evolving.
i am not a flag flashing citizen here, but it is about time the rest of the world starts to know who americans are and gives us support to make things better. because we can..
cut the crap, please, the 'both' of you
patriotism,the 'we' rhetoric, is vulgar and moronic, and attacking 'americans' in the absolute is equally
now hands up, face the corner and drop the trousers
beautifully said abra.
that was my 'best of america' mood you doorwhore. i am depressed now. thanks a lot. +, liberty bell is a friend of mine.
so is e.
here is a good one
,
Johnny White's Sports Bar
I want to apologize for losing my temper last night. We all reach a boiling point sometimes, I had to vent.
beatriz, good communication is based on understanding the state of mind of your audience. Your post here, your first ever post here, was unreserved criticism of an entire nation that is currently in crisis. Your post came off like a wife who decides that the day her husband loses his job is also good time to tell him she's been faking her orgasms all along - in the interest of helping him improve himself, of course.
It's presumptuous of you to think that you speak for everyone beyond the US borders, that you represent all "international sentiment". The tone of your post is nasty at an inappropriate time.
That being said, I apologize to everyone who does come here looking for discussion among "intelligent professionals with inquisitive minds" that I was so angered by beatriz's comments that I responded in fury.
And as I said at the beginning of my post, beatriz, I don't necessarily disagree with everything you posted, and certainly there are ideas worthy of discussion in those links, but the time and manner in which you posted them was utterly, and selfishly, wrong.
abra, as always, a beautiful post. Thanks.
beatrizcristina,
global warming is to Katrina, what dark matter is to the universe. Everyone says its there, but to date there is no conclusive proof whatsoever that a link exists.
Global Warming Has Nothing To Do With It
POSTED 2005-07-22T11:02:12
By James O'Brien
Special to the Sentinel
July 20, 2005
There is some disagreement among climate scientists on the potential impact of global climate change on future hurricanes in the Atlantic Ocean. Last year, claims were made that the frequency of hurricanes will increase due to global climate change.
For example, after Hurricane Bonnie, Charley and Frances hit Florida in 2004, the prime minister of England, Tony Blair, and many other prominent American scientists told the world that the hurricanes were due to global warming.
Luckily scientists who actually regularly study hurricanes quickly responded with the facts, and, for once, the misinformation was curbed quickly and effectively.
But now the alarmists are at it again, claiming that global warming will increase the intensity of hurricanes. Don't worry, readers; there is absolutely no scientific support or correlation of hurricane intensity or hurricane frequency with global warming.
Hurricane scientists and experts actually believe that variations in the Atlantic Ocean Conveyer, not global temperatures, determine the frequency of hurricanes. It is predicted that we will see an increase in the number of Atlantic hurricanes for the next 10-15 years compared to recent years. This is nothing new -- the last peak occurred between 1930 and 1970.
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