Overtime/Underpay Abuse affecting our profession in general - Forum...
POST YOUR DISCUSSIONS HERE @ ARCHITECT
Or email to [email protected]
as we begin compiling resources
Every architect understands about the 3rd day of S.O.A. that they are destined to a life of long hours. What this forum hopes to discuss is the abuse which employees + principals do, and how that affects our profession at large.
I am a young architect with about 6 years experience trying to start an employee rights campaign/forum/discussion/website to hopefully help the profession of Architecture back in a positive trajectory.
HAVE YOU EVER WORKED MORE THAN 50 HOURS PER WEEK?
WAS YOUR STARTING PAY LESS THAN $10 PER HOUR?
HAVE YOU EVER INTERNED FOR FREE?
DO YOU EVER GET PAID FOR OVERTIME?
DO YOU RECEIVE LESS THAN 2 WEEKS PAID VACATION?
DO YOU NOT RECEIVE HEALTHCARE BENEFITS?
PRINCIPALS - HAVE YOU EVERY UNDERCUT ON A BID TO WIN A PROJECT?
HAVE YOU EVER PARTICIPATE IN A COMPETITION?
ALL PART OF THE PROBLEM
Every time an architect works that extra 10, 20, or 50 hours beyond their 40-50 hour week without additional compensation (pay or vacation), or accepts a low salary, or undercuts another firm to get a job, he/she is contributing to the problem.
Lets start at the bottom. Three people, each basic ”˜architect 1', all take a job for say $40K, at a firm. Then each of them works an average of 60 hours per week (which I am sure is not unfamiliar to any of you). Obviously it is a very simple equation - If the employee worked only 40 hours a week, then that employer would need to hire four people instead of just the three, which would cost him $160K not $120. Where do you think the additional monies come from? He obviously would have to charge more for his services instead of making less people do more overtime work for less money.
THE PROBLEM IS VERY SIMPLE:
Every little decision we make each day in how we live out our working days, every little seemingly insignificant stretch we ”˜let slid', is what has gotten us to today, a world where we are the only licensed profession where the mean salary is only 15% higher than the average office assistant, and generally LESS than the average laborer/contractor building our buildings.
THE DOWNWARD SPIRAL
Somewhere along the line, all of these decisions, that each and every one of us makes, eventually leads up the channels to the decision makers. This in turn contributes to the ever eroding fee schedule as firms continue to out bid each other with 10, 9, 8, 6, 4, and even on some large projects now at 2 or 1% FEES. THIS ABSURD, REALTORS MAKE 6-10% AND DO NOT HOLD ANY PROFESSIONAL LIABILITY??? Obviously you can see where the trend leads. We already have many firms outsourcing CAD drafting. If each of us continues to let the little things slid - eventually we will eliminate our own jobs and where does it stop? 0.5% fees? 0.2% Fees.
THE PROFESSION OF ARCHITECTURE IS GRINDING TO A HALT - WE MUST ACT!!!
CONTRIBUTE - and I don't mean $$$
At this point, myself and a collaborative of colleagues who share some of these views and aspirations to change things are trying to GATHER ANY + ALL contribution. We are looking for facts and figures - like the archinect salary poll. We are looking for resources for employee LAW, RIGHTS, ABUSES, and what can be done, even on the micro scale. Even if you just want to show your support and/or share your personal story of how you have just finished a 100+ hour work week, or how you got outbid on a project - WE WANT TO HEAR YOUR VOICE. GIVE US YOUR IDEAS...
LONG-TERM,
Forum,
Website,
Liason between employees, employers, AIA, etc.
Employees Rights/Laws Information on website.
UNION FOR ARCHITECTS?
Possible National/International Day/Week strike for the good of your cause - salary, hours, whatever you are seeking to improve
POST YOUR DISCUSSIONS HERE @ ARCHITECT
Or email to [email protected]
as we begin compiling resources
As much as we all bitch and moan about it our pay and the long hours, I think most of us are architects because we want to make an impact on some part of the world. I think if we unionized, it might be a huge step backward for architecture as a whole. I mean, sure, it would be nice to get paid over time, but all that would mean would be that our rates would go up, jobs would take longer to complete (since principles won't want to or won't be able to pay for overtime), more work would go to engineers (since the overtime-included rates would probably push architects out of many clients' price range). A multi-person firm would become phenomenally expensive to run, so I could only imagine that much fewer young architects would be willing to branch out and start a firm of their own.
Okay, so it might not be QUITE as bad as I'm making it sound; dogs and cats will still fight and gravity will still keep us on the ground, but just think back to when you were working at some retail store in high school: didn't your boss give you time off when you worked too much in one week? What would you do if your principle came in and said "hey, I know the client wants you to have that marketing package ready by Monday, but you've been working too much, and I need to ask you to take the next week off." A firm can't run like that.
With our degrees, we could just a soon run off to become graphic designers, product designers, interior designers or joined any number of other design professions, but we chose architecture, most of us knowing ahead of time that the hours were gonna suck and we'd be lucky to eat Mac 'n' Cheese once and a while. If you're in this for the money, then you're barking up the wrong profession
dude, I think that you're overlooking the concept of unions. Licensed professions cannot have unions, because that would be creating a monopoly. You *might* be able to get away with a sort of union of interns....
But the questions:
1. Yes, when I was with a very small office, I did this regularly.
2. Yes, coincidentally, at the same office referred to in the previous answer, I started at $8/hr.
3. No.
4. I always either get paid for overtime, or am able to take equivilant hours off the following week.
5. exactly two weeks paid vacation.
6. Health, vision, life insurance, no dental. Pretty good to know that if I kick the bucket, my parents are taken care of. I won't be scuba diving with them anytime soon, though...
7. N/A
8. No
I believe that the problem is much bigger than most assume. The profession has positioned its self as a service that is expendable, and in the same vain as fashion. Most people don't even understand what an architect does. For the profession to succeed when people want something built the first thing that should come to mind is architect not builder.
How about an effective professional association.. I know there have been attemps in the past to usurp the AIA's position as the defacto professional association of architects in the USA, but that doesnt mean we should stop trying.
Enough younger architects are disinterested in the AIA, but woud like to see the profession regain its lost respect, and gain lobbying power in order to protect itself legally and politically. A thoughtful stab at developing such an organization would be a start to reshaping the public's view of architects and architecture. I think you would soon find alot of interested architects.
I would like to see mentoring come back to the profession, the apprenticeship. It seems at the office, everyone was very defensive and private and in competition with each other.
Firms that charge less and pay less (to their employees) are not either able to deliver quality or consistancy. It would be the beginers who have limited number of projects at hand are the ones who would like to charge less in the business but in such excess volume of business would kill them in getting the projects executed alone. Big firms who wanrt to deliver quality consistantly would not charge less cause they need to pay their people well to stop attrition.
Architects suck at business sense very often and are over awed by the superiors in the business.So as students they are willing to either work for free or for very little money at the same time putting in 60 hrs a week. My advice to everybody is relax dont fight with firms that pay less just quit for greener pastures. When principal's realise that they are not able to give consistancy in quality of work because of lack of manpower, they will auomatically pay well enough to retain their staff.
Workplace Bullying: What Can You Do?
by John Rossheim
It's hard to pinpoint how it started. Maybe it was when you saw your manager's assistant noting those rare occasions when you came in 10 minutes late. Or maybe it was the time the boss half-jokingly trashed your performance -- in front of her higher-up.
There now seems no end to your tormentor's campaign of psychological harassment and personal and professional destruction -- aimed squarely at you. The nitpicking, the demeaning comments, the misleading digs and full-blown lies have all come together to exact their intended effect: to make you quit or get fired.
This is the ugly picture of bullying in the American workplace, painted by workers who describe themselves as targets and by the professionals who advocate for them. "My supervisor would take my case files to inspect them, and then write me up at the end of the day because the files weren't complete," says a former employee of a California social-service nonprofit. "He undermined me all around, which is not what a good supervisor does."
Are You Being Targeted?
According to The Workplace Bullying & Trauma Institute Web site, telltale signs you're being bullied at work manifest themselves both in and outside the office. Just a few include apprehension about going to work and agitation and anxiety while you're there, surprise, agenda-less meetings where you're humiliated, never being left alone to do your job, and false accusations of incompetence.
Psychological Abuse
The essence of workplace bullying is to twist political and social power to inflict psychological abuse on a carefully chosen target. But the vast majority of such incidents are not illegal in the US, according to Gary Namie, PhD, president of The Workplace Bullying & Trauma Institute in Bellingham, Washington, and author of The Bully at Work.
One in six American workers experiences workplace bullying, Namie says, and most bullies and their targets are women. However, 42 percent of the perpetrators are men. Employers and workers can both play roles to prevent or stop bullying, which can destroy careers and lives.
Management Vigilance
Companies should be concerned about bullying, if for no other reason than its potential to damage the bottom line. "Employers are frustrated with turnover and disruption caused by bullies," Namie says. It often costs a company tens of thousands of dollars to recruit, hire and train a new employee to replace a bullied worker who left.
What should companies do to prevent psychological abuse among workers? As with any form of harassment, management's vigilance is key.
"The employer should be close enough to day-to-day activity to recognize and appropriately inquire about intimidation going on," says Craig Pratt, an HR consultant and coauthor of Investigating Workplace Harassment: How to Be Fair, Thorough, and Legal.
But such awareness won't necessarily end bullying. "Even in the best of circumstances, there will be people who behave badly," says Kim Vosburg, director of human resources for Gene B. Glick Co., an Indianapolis property-management firm. "The senior HR manager must let the bully know that that behavior will not be tolerated, period."
But be aware that employers are out to protect themselves. Often, their chief legal concern is avoiding any backlash that could result from taking action against an employee accused of bullying, says Karen Karr, special counsel at Steptoe & Johnson LLP in Phoenix. "If some harm does come to the bullied person and the employer could have prevented it, there's some liability, generally covered by workers' comp," she explains.
Pushing Back Easier Said Than Done
It's easy to say that targets should respond aggressively to bullies, but it's not always possible. "A lot of people who are targeted can't fight back," Namie says. "They don't have it in them."
The alternative is to involve human resources, a higher manager or an outside advocate, such as a consultant or lawyer. But don't confide in anyone close to the bully -- that could make matters worse. And make sure you document the abuse.
If you're being bullied, leaving your job is sometimes the only way to salvage your physical and mental health. "My boss was killing me -- destroying my health," says a technical writer bullied out of her job. "I had three heart attacks during that time."
If you leave, tell the powers that be why. "The nature of the departure is what predicts your health," Namie explains. Bullied workers who go out fighting are likely to get past the nightmare relatively quickly and move on to a better work situation. "If you skulk away in silence, the bully gets to be the oral historian," he says.
who are we supposed to be unionized against? our clients? most of us work in private practice and on a project by project basis. what is the point of unionization when you are at the top of the food chain? interns pay their dues, and then make money later on. i've received $24,000 in raises in the last four years.
This is an old thread but interesting. I've been reading his forum awhile and hear lots of stories of long hours and low pay. I have seen people that work long hours but I am not one of them. Just say no to long hours. Do your work right the first time and go home. After a certain amount of time you are unproductive and more mistake prone anyways. Didn't anyone learn in college that all-nighters just don't really pay off. I did it once and was useless the next two days. I would see my friends stay up all night working on a project and come in the next morning and they would have gotten nothing done. Some of the places I have worked have asked for overtime but they don't fire you if you don't, sure I get some grief but they are generally happy that I get my work done right and on time.
When I graduated 25 years ago, sure my first job was less than $10 an hour, but $8 was a decent amount in the early 80's. I still make plenty of money, I'm just not rich.
I never interned for free, I'm not a fool. Granted for some college student to get his foot in the door at a nice firm its not always a bad move, but I always needed a job to make money in the summers.
Most jobs I have been at do not pay overtime, but since I don't work that much it's not really an issue.
I have worked at jobs that even though I had 2 weeks vacation that I would sometimes only take a week and would always get extra money or bonus instead.
Insurance and benefits have always been pretty standard in every office I have worked. Not all the bells and whistles but decent coverage.
Undercutting is relative. You get what you pay for, but you have to be competitive.
I've never participated in a competition, but actually I wouldn't mind trying it sometime. I don't get to do all that much design work, especially where the client isn't directing every move. It might be fun to get to be really creative on occasion even if I knew that it wouldn't get built. Our office had the college interns volunteer to do a competition this summer, I'm sure they had a little fun with it. It looked like a student project but no harm was done.
In answer to the BIG question, are you happy with your job. Generally I am not. I don't like being told what to do. I don't feel like getting up to go to work every single day. I don't like bullies. I don't like working with or for stupid and arrogant people. But I am happy with my career, I would have all these problems with just about any job, its just that architecture is fun and challenging work, better than anything else I can think of.
UNHAPPY WITH YOUR JOB?
Overtime/Underpay Abuse affecting our profession in general - Forum...
POST YOUR DISCUSSIONS HERE @ ARCHITECT
Or email to
[email protected]
as we begin compiling resources
Every architect understands about the 3rd day of S.O.A. that they are destined to a life of long hours. What this forum hopes to discuss is the abuse which employees + principals do, and how that affects our profession at large.
I am a young architect with about 6 years experience trying to start an employee rights campaign/forum/discussion/website to hopefully help the profession of Architecture back in a positive trajectory.
HAVE YOU EVER WORKED MORE THAN 50 HOURS PER WEEK?
WAS YOUR STARTING PAY LESS THAN $10 PER HOUR?
HAVE YOU EVER INTERNED FOR FREE?
DO YOU EVER GET PAID FOR OVERTIME?
DO YOU RECEIVE LESS THAN 2 WEEKS PAID VACATION?
DO YOU NOT RECEIVE HEALTHCARE BENEFITS?
PRINCIPALS - HAVE YOU EVERY UNDERCUT ON A BID TO WIN A PROJECT?
HAVE YOU EVER PARTICIPATE IN A COMPETITION?
ALL PART OF THE PROBLEM
Every time an architect works that extra 10, 20, or 50 hours beyond their 40-50 hour week without additional compensation (pay or vacation), or accepts a low salary, or undercuts another firm to get a job, he/she is contributing to the problem.
Lets start at the bottom. Three people, each basic ”˜architect 1', all take a job for say $40K, at a firm. Then each of them works an average of 60 hours per week (which I am sure is not unfamiliar to any of you). Obviously it is a very simple equation - If the employee worked only 40 hours a week, then that employer would need to hire four people instead of just the three, which would cost him $160K not $120. Where do you think the additional monies come from? He obviously would have to charge more for his services instead of making less people do more overtime work for less money.
THE PROBLEM IS VERY SIMPLE:
Every little decision we make each day in how we live out our working days, every little seemingly insignificant stretch we ”˜let slid', is what has gotten us to today, a world where we are the only licensed profession where the mean salary is only 15% higher than the average office assistant, and generally LESS than the average laborer/contractor building our buildings.
THE DOWNWARD SPIRAL
Somewhere along the line, all of these decisions, that each and every one of us makes, eventually leads up the channels to the decision makers. This in turn contributes to the ever eroding fee schedule as firms continue to out bid each other with 10, 9, 8, 6, 4, and even on some large projects now at 2 or 1% FEES. THIS ABSURD, REALTORS MAKE 6-10% AND DO NOT HOLD ANY PROFESSIONAL LIABILITY??? Obviously you can see where the trend leads. We already have many firms outsourcing CAD drafting. If each of us continues to let the little things slid - eventually we will eliminate our own jobs and where does it stop? 0.5% fees? 0.2% Fees.
THE PROFESSION OF ARCHITECTURE IS GRINDING TO A HALT - WE MUST ACT!!!
CONTRIBUTE - and I don't mean $$$
At this point, myself and a collaborative of colleagues who share some of these views and aspirations to change things are trying to GATHER ANY + ALL contribution. We are looking for facts and figures - like the archinect salary poll. We are looking for resources for employee LAW, RIGHTS, ABUSES, and what can be done, even on the micro scale. Even if you just want to show your support and/or share your personal story of how you have just finished a 100+ hour work week, or how you got outbid on a project - WE WANT TO HEAR YOUR VOICE. GIVE US YOUR IDEAS...
LONG-TERM,
Forum,
Website,
Liason between employees, employers, AIA, etc.
Employees Rights/Laws Information on website.
UNION FOR ARCHITECTS?
Possible National/International Day/Week strike for the good of your cause - salary, hours, whatever you are seeking to improve
POST YOUR DISCUSSIONS HERE @ ARCHITECT
Or email to
[email protected]
as we begin compiling resources
WE WILL KEEP YOU POSTED WHEN THE WEBSITE IS UP!!!
As much as we all bitch and moan about it our pay and the long hours, I think most of us are architects because we want to make an impact on some part of the world. I think if we unionized, it might be a huge step backward for architecture as a whole. I mean, sure, it would be nice to get paid over time, but all that would mean would be that our rates would go up, jobs would take longer to complete (since principles won't want to or won't be able to pay for overtime), more work would go to engineers (since the overtime-included rates would probably push architects out of many clients' price range). A multi-person firm would become phenomenally expensive to run, so I could only imagine that much fewer young architects would be willing to branch out and start a firm of their own.
Okay, so it might not be QUITE as bad as I'm making it sound; dogs and cats will still fight and gravity will still keep us on the ground, but just think back to when you were working at some retail store in high school: didn't your boss give you time off when you worked too much in one week? What would you do if your principle came in and said "hey, I know the client wants you to have that marketing package ready by Monday, but you've been working too much, and I need to ask you to take the next week off." A firm can't run like that.
With our degrees, we could just a soon run off to become graphic designers, product designers, interior designers or joined any number of other design professions, but we chose architecture, most of us knowing ahead of time that the hours were gonna suck and we'd be lucky to eat Mac 'n' Cheese once and a while. If you're in this for the money, then you're barking up the wrong profession
nope. i'm happy.
dude, I think that you're overlooking the concept of unions. Licensed professions cannot have unions, because that would be creating a monopoly. You *might* be able to get away with a sort of union of interns....
But the questions:
1. Yes, when I was with a very small office, I did this regularly.
2. Yes, coincidentally, at the same office referred to in the previous answer, I started at $8/hr.
3. No.
4. I always either get paid for overtime, or am able to take equivilant hours off the following week.
5. exactly two weeks paid vacation.
6. Health, vision, life insurance, no dental. Pretty good to know that if I kick the bucket, my parents are taken care of. I won't be scuba diving with them anytime soon, though...
7. N/A
8. No
UNBELIEVABLE - the evidence mounts....
anyone care???
08/16/05 10:10
http://money.cnn.com/2005/08/15/pf/training_pay/index.htm
guess what archinect, we are number 1.
we're number 1!
we're number 1!
we're number 1!
mwad
Total Entries: 5
Total Comments: 171
08/16/05 10:14
I believe that the problem is much bigger than most assume. The profession has positioned its self as a service that is expendable, and in the same vain as fashion. Most people don't even understand what an architect does. For the profession to succeed when people want something built the first thing that should come to mind is architect not builder.
i can be unhappy anywhere...
unions are not for licensed professionals but for the pre-licensed - interns.
Lord Auch, most architects don't even understand what an architect does.
How about an effective professional association.. I know there have been attemps in the past to usurp the AIA's position as the defacto professional association of architects in the USA, but that doesnt mean we should stop trying.
Enough younger architects are disinterested in the AIA, but woud like to see the profession regain its lost respect, and gain lobbying power in order to protect itself legally and politically. A thoughtful stab at developing such an organization would be a start to reshaping the public's view of architects and architecture. I think you would soon find alot of interested architects.
maybe if we cut out all of the idiots who practice architecture, we could create some sort of demand for our services...
...i could take a baseball bat to work tomorrow...
...but in all seriousness, i would be on board if we could increase the quality and demand for good architecture for good money...
...but this may rely on a heavy cultural shift...(in the states, anyway)
yes
no
no
yes
no
no
N/A
no
I would like to see mentoring come back to the profession, the apprenticeship. It seems at the office, everyone was very defensive and private and in competition with each other.
Firms that charge less and pay less (to their employees) are not either able to deliver quality or consistancy. It would be the beginers who have limited number of projects at hand are the ones who would like to charge less in the business but in such excess volume of business would kill them in getting the projects executed alone. Big firms who wanrt to deliver quality consistantly would not charge less cause they need to pay their people well to stop attrition.
Architects suck at business sense very often and are over awed by the superiors in the business.So as students they are willing to either work for free or for very little money at the same time putting in 60 hrs a week. My advice to everybody is relax dont fight with firms that pay less just quit for greener pastures. When principal's realise that they are not able to give consistancy in quality of work because of lack of manpower, they will auomatically pay well enough to retain their staff.
Havent you heard that if you pay peanuts you will get monkeys. Decide whether you want to get peanuts and be labbeled as monkeys.
? peanuts + monkies - did you ever hear laywers and/or doctors describing each other as monkies? (exactly proving my point)
HAVE YOU EVER WORKED MORE THAN 50 HOURS PER WEEK?
yes, but i like architecture
WAS YOUR STARTING PAY LESS THAN $10 PER HOUR?
minimum wage ... $5.15 / hr, and i was glad to see it after one year of architecture school
HAVE YOU EVER INTERNED FOR FREE?
no
DO YOU EVER GET PAID FOR OVERTIME?
licensed / salaried
DO YOU RECEIVE LESS THAN 2 WEEKS PAID VACATION?
no
DO YOU NOT RECEIVE HEALTHCARE BENEFITS?
yes
PRINCIPALS – HAVE YOU EVERY UNDERCUT ON A BID TO WIN A PROJECT?
not a principal but:
what exactly is "undercut?"
is it knowing what the going rate for architects is and then purposely going below that in order to get a job?
or is it charging a rate that one thinks is fair and that the client will pay RATHER than the going rate for architects?
the AIA got busted by the US supreme court 30+ years ago for setting fees.
HAVE YOU EVER PARTICIPATE IN A COMPETITION?
yes -- but never for a paying job
sorry, i DO receive healthcare ...
Workplace Bullying: What Can You Do?
by John Rossheim
It's hard to pinpoint how it started. Maybe it was when you saw your manager's assistant noting those rare occasions when you came in 10 minutes late. Or maybe it was the time the boss half-jokingly trashed your performance -- in front of her higher-up.
There now seems no end to your tormentor's campaign of psychological harassment and personal and professional destruction -- aimed squarely at you. The nitpicking, the demeaning comments, the misleading digs and full-blown lies have all come together to exact their intended effect: to make you quit or get fired.
This is the ugly picture of bullying in the American workplace, painted by workers who describe themselves as targets and by the professionals who advocate for them. "My supervisor would take my case files to inspect them, and then write me up at the end of the day because the files weren't complete," says a former employee of a California social-service nonprofit. "He undermined me all around, which is not what a good supervisor does."
Are You Being Targeted?
According to The Workplace Bullying & Trauma Institute Web site, telltale signs you're being bullied at work manifest themselves both in and outside the office. Just a few include apprehension about going to work and agitation and anxiety while you're there, surprise, agenda-less meetings where you're humiliated, never being left alone to do your job, and false accusations of incompetence.
Psychological Abuse
The essence of workplace bullying is to twist political and social power to inflict psychological abuse on a carefully chosen target. But the vast majority of such incidents are not illegal in the US, according to Gary Namie, PhD, president of The Workplace Bullying & Trauma Institute in Bellingham, Washington, and author of The Bully at Work.
One in six American workers experiences workplace bullying, Namie says, and most bullies and their targets are women. However, 42 percent of the perpetrators are men. Employers and workers can both play roles to prevent or stop bullying, which can destroy careers and lives.
Management Vigilance
Companies should be concerned about bullying, if for no other reason than its potential to damage the bottom line. "Employers are frustrated with turnover and disruption caused by bullies," Namie says. It often costs a company tens of thousands of dollars to recruit, hire and train a new employee to replace a bullied worker who left.
What should companies do to prevent psychological abuse among workers? As with any form of harassment, management's vigilance is key.
"The employer should be close enough to day-to-day activity to recognize and appropriately inquire about intimidation going on," says Craig Pratt, an HR consultant and coauthor of Investigating Workplace Harassment: How to Be Fair, Thorough, and Legal.
But such awareness won't necessarily end bullying. "Even in the best of circumstances, there will be people who behave badly," says Kim Vosburg, director of human resources for Gene B. Glick Co., an Indianapolis property-management firm. "The senior HR manager must let the bully know that that behavior will not be tolerated, period."
But be aware that employers are out to protect themselves. Often, their chief legal concern is avoiding any backlash that could result from taking action against an employee accused of bullying, says Karen Karr, special counsel at Steptoe & Johnson LLP in Phoenix. "If some harm does come to the bullied person and the employer could have prevented it, there's some liability, generally covered by workers' comp," she explains.
Pushing Back Easier Said Than Done
It's easy to say that targets should respond aggressively to bullies, but it's not always possible. "A lot of people who are targeted can't fight back," Namie says. "They don't have it in them."
The alternative is to involve human resources, a higher manager or an outside advocate, such as a consultant or lawyer. But don't confide in anyone close to the bully -- that could make matters worse. And make sure you document the abuse.
If you're being bullied, leaving your job is sometimes the only way to salvage your physical and mental health. "My boss was killing me -- destroying my health," says a technical writer bullied out of her job. "I had three heart attacks during that time."
If you leave, tell the powers that be why. "The nature of the departure is what predicts your health," Namie explains. Bullied workers who go out fighting are likely to get past the nightmare relatively quickly and move on to a better work situation. "If you skulk away in silence, the bully gets to be the oral historian," he says.
who are we supposed to be unionized against? our clients? most of us work in private practice and on a project by project basis. what is the point of unionization when you are at the top of the food chain? interns pay their dues, and then make money later on. i've received $24,000 in raises in the last four years.
UNHAPPY WITH ALL CAPS?
unhappy with your job ?
quit - find another.
god, i get sick of the belly aching on this forum.
note that this thread is more than two yrs old.
Damn that rickaticka3!
yes but digital information doesn't "age"
This is an old thread but interesting. I've been reading his forum awhile and hear lots of stories of long hours and low pay. I have seen people that work long hours but I am not one of them. Just say no to long hours. Do your work right the first time and go home. After a certain amount of time you are unproductive and more mistake prone anyways. Didn't anyone learn in college that all-nighters just don't really pay off. I did it once and was useless the next two days. I would see my friends stay up all night working on a project and come in the next morning and they would have gotten nothing done. Some of the places I have worked have asked for overtime but they don't fire you if you don't, sure I get some grief but they are generally happy that I get my work done right and on time.
When I graduated 25 years ago, sure my first job was less than $10 an hour, but $8 was a decent amount in the early 80's. I still make plenty of money, I'm just not rich.
I never interned for free, I'm not a fool. Granted for some college student to get his foot in the door at a nice firm its not always a bad move, but I always needed a job to make money in the summers.
Most jobs I have been at do not pay overtime, but since I don't work that much it's not really an issue.
I have worked at jobs that even though I had 2 weeks vacation that I would sometimes only take a week and would always get extra money or bonus instead.
Insurance and benefits have always been pretty standard in every office I have worked. Not all the bells and whistles but decent coverage.
Undercutting is relative. You get what you pay for, but you have to be competitive.
I've never participated in a competition, but actually I wouldn't mind trying it sometime. I don't get to do all that much design work, especially where the client isn't directing every move. It might be fun to get to be really creative on occasion even if I knew that it wouldn't get built. Our office had the college interns volunteer to do a competition this summer, I'm sure they had a little fun with it. It looked like a student project but no harm was done.
In answer to the BIG question, are you happy with your job. Generally I am not. I don't like being told what to do. I don't feel like getting up to go to work every single day. I don't like bullies. I don't like working with or for stupid and arrogant people. But I am happy with my career, I would have all these problems with just about any job, its just that architecture is fun and challenging work, better than anything else I can think of.
Hey, I started a "union thread" for internd...but it seems architects would rather suffer than let change happen ...go figure !
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