I've been reading some of the postings here and there is so much negativity about the field that makes me wonder! are there ANY happy architects here who actually like their profession?
I am happy. I am moving away from a traditional architects role however - primarily as a reaction to the common varieties of unhappiness outlined in other threads.
with the way things are going these days you could say that about pretty much every industry. you are always providing a service wether you like it or not! it's somebody else's money, at least it's not a painfull service industry, like selling shoes!
I have set up a consultancy producing "high-end" concepts for a developer, as well as masterplanning and design strategies. We are an adjunct of the development company. We dont do working drawings, but we do oversee other architects and draughting practices. It is mostly residential - at the moment I am working on a masterplan for 140 apartments, a retail fitout and a 3-4 level hotel, as well as my own office.
I have no idea what I am doing or what anyone else is thinking. I am financially, socially, and artistically disoriented and disenfranchised. I react to most architecture with either confusion or indignation. What I want and what I get are becoming increasingly divergent.
On the other hand, architects are fun to hang out with and party better than anyone. They like outdoor sports and are less materialistic than other professionals. All and all, if I had it all to do over again - - - I wouldn't change a single thing.
well I did survive art school in which my spirit was crushed and spat on, on a daily basis for four years, I don't think anything could be worse than that!
I strongly suspect that, somewhere in cyberspace, identical discussions are being held among dissatisfied lawyers, physicians, teachers, bankers, nurses, filmmakers, artists and others.
The question in any profession is not whether or not there is plenty to dislike (there always is), but whether or not there is enough of the exciting and satisfying to offset the humdrum and disappointing aspects we all must slog through (each person has to figure that out for her/himself).
how is art school so bad? oh is it because artists don't get paid anything?
i think the reason why i got into architecture is because i don't know what else i could do and i love architecture, despite the tribulations ahead. . .lawyers complain just as much as architects do. med school is really long.
even though architecture may be a bitch at first, i think in the long run, it is really rewarding. i think at the end. . .there's this sense of accomplishment and achievement. . that you've survived and in return, you're the one who gets to really design.
also put into consideration that a majority of this forum just got out of arch school so they're going through the worst part of the career. . . where they don't get paid very well and are the 'CAD monkeys'
actually that's not true, you could always sell your work but there is no such thing as a steady income in that field.
the school that I went to was packed with amazing artists and the level of competition was way up there and the instructors made sure that we went through hell on a daily basis with harsh criticism and an insane amount of work just to keep the vanity level low and also prepare us for the "real world". the crits were pretty bad, I saw this 30 year old guy cry once in class, pretty harsh
did anyone laugh?you mean laughed at the work? yes
laughed at the presenter? yes
people take the crits too seriously and anyone who has ever taken a single class in an art school knows that art students loooooove to BS.
bunch of intelectuall wannabes who never shut up!
"even though architecture may be a bitch at first, i think in the long run, it is really rewarding. i think at the end. . .there's this sense of accomplishment and achievement. . that you've survived and in return, you're the one who gets to really design."
look, i don't want to sound negative, but i think you really need to think this through from a realistic point of view before you jump in. in my view and experience, very few architects 'get to really design' and feel a sense of reward. Most architects (ie 95% as someone else pointed out) are going to end up in production at a low rate of pay and working long hours, many times working on designs that they do not even like but which are essential to someone else. that's the no BS story.
as far as being happy, i think it's fair to say that happiness depends completely on what you are aiming for and what your expectations are. look closely at what architects really do and how they got where they are now (the decisions they made, where they studied, who they knew). you have to be pretty ambitious and have the right connections and social contacts and business moxsie to start a successful practice or even get a great job. if you are happy working on detail and production to realize what will most likely be someone else's design and/or have a large number of constraints that deal with code or the bottom line or what some developer thinks will sell--then architecture may be for you.
well I've long checked in my sanity and smile all the time, granted that could be because I don't have to design bathroom stalls anymore and run an office of 10 people.
As far as being happy: yeah I guess I am, but my happiness doesn't come from my job. I keep myself occupied with other things (architecture related, of course) that make me feel like my education was somewhat worthwhile. Example: I recently put together a quick proposal for a bamboo flooring company for their display space in Boston (didn't get the job, but it was fun regardless), I'm working on a design competition with a co-worker, I'm fabricating bent-plywood chairs in my garage, and I'm taking my 8-year old niece to MassMOCA this weekend. Yeah, my day job has its little jems of fulfillment, but its what I do after 5pm and on weekends that makes me happy.
I have been doing this for over 25 years, and yes, I am happy. The only thing I don't like is that I put in a ton of hours because we are so busy. I'm part owner in the firm, so thats why. The employees don't work more than 42 or so hours a week. I think you have to have a pretty high level of patience to be happy with this profession. I didn't feel really good at what I was doing until I had about 10 years of experience. I still learn new things every day, which is one of the things I like about what I do. The money can definitely be good. Of course you are not going to make big bucks coming out of school- you hardly know anything! As far as design, I do design every day. Everyone in the firm except a couple of draftsmen designs, even interns. We also spend hours and hours on the phone, doing budgets, talking to clients, out in the field, etc. That's what it takes to get a project done, and for the people here, seeing the project finished and well built is as much of a thrill as the design process. I know lots and lots of people in many professions, and in general I think architecture is pretty much at the top. We do different things every day, the work is challenging and rewarding. It is hard work, but at least when we make a mistake we don't have to tell someone there child just died in surgery. We get to be creative and practical. Other people are enthralled by what we do, and how we can change their lives through architecture. We have flexible hours, set our own schedules, and can work out of our house or in a giant corporation. I can't think of any other profession that would have suited me.
I TOTALLY AGGRE WITH "Dazed and Confused's" CONCLUSION:
>>On the other hand, architects are fun to hang out with and party better than anyone. They like outdoor sports and are less materialistic than other professionals. All and all, if I had it all to do over again - - - I wouldn't change a single thing<<
BUT STILL:
- it's a lousy paid job (that's the reason why we are "less matrialistic"...)
- every fool thinks he can do your job as good as you, only because he took some art-classes at high-school or because he did some paintwork at his last appartment. (maybe that's the reason that we party so good - to forget...)
AND THEN:
only sometimes, we can produce something, that after its realization resembles this first or second idea we had...
and that is the reason why "if I had it all to do over again - - - I wouldn't change a single thing."
cyn, if you don't believe that architecture is a service based industry, or profession, whatever you want to call it, then you better take a hard look at your life. sure you can get a job teaching. you can become a paper architect, but if you seriously want to build, you better acknowledge the client component and their needs unless of course you are very wealthy. you work for them. they pay the bills, and yes, they have the final say as unfortunate as this may be from time to time. you are hired to for your talent and skill, but you can not ignore the clients needs in doing so.
e, did i ever say that i don't believe it? look at my posts again. i have said over and over again that this is the reality. not sure why you think i don't get it. i am simply warning unsuspecting students of this reality. okay?
cool cyn. sorry. i just saw that post where you commented about something i said, and it sounded like you were getting a jab in at me. apologies. peace.
has anyone else considered the correlation of acohol consumption to work-related stress?
my co-worker and i often have "stoop time" (high life and american spirits usually join us) in front of my apartment to recount the day's events.
i'm not glorifying it in the least, but it is pretty much a weekly basis for beer to come out at the office somewhere around 3:30-4. for the most part we're all partiers.
just checking in for the record.... I'm happy. I work as a consultant for the time being. My company treats me very well, and I earn a competetive wage. I regret leaving them at the end of summer, but I'm off to get my master's at RISD. After that I will work for misc. architects to get more experience / IDP, then start my own practice or partner up with the firm I am currently with.
The top-level designer of a complex system is given the honored title of system "architect." Now, if every engineering graduate believes he/she will be hired as or automatically rise to have the responsibility of system architect, then he/she will likewise be sadly disillusioned and bitter.
How ironic that in another recent thread many posters were irate over other industries highjacking the title "architect"!
The reality is that most enterprises/projects are (a) hierarchical and (b) "service" oriented.
The more young upstarts we can put off the better. This job is the for the dedicated, never a dull moment. It's a real passion to be fu**ed off and elated all in one day.
I bear my soul and heart to the corporate construction beast every day - I like a challenge, I beleive the pain makes you stronger.
I would consider myself a happy architect. Like the work, like the successes and deal with the difficulties and I am content with what I get paid for doing it. I also happen to have had my own firm for ten years and pick my clients carefully.
I'd would say that if you can't crack a smile of laugh at your critic when in school perhaps you take things too seriously and should not continue in the profession. Its just lines on paper. I remind clients of it all the time, its important to understand what's important, when things get important vs. when to keep things light....
well it all sounds good! I wonder though, is anybody here from europe or asia? I've lived in asia and been to europe many many times and when it comes to work and alot of other things for that matter I found that people are more easy going and they pretty much take their time and now that I live in north america life besiacally equals WORK.
so what's the situation with architects in europe or asia?
architects in europe or asia have their own life, appart from work. not everything in life is work, but i know in north america it's like that: life = work.
Yes, very happy. Not rich, not making cutting edge work, don't break into song when I face a contractor's twentieth RFI, but overall, very happy with the decision I made to follow this passion.
I've been out of school 10 years. Those first few years I often cried as I balanced my empty checkbook at 2AM having just gotten home from the office. It does get better, really.
polipop, I agree. it seems like it's easier finding high paying jobs there too! I haven't even started school yet and i'm getting job offers for after grad... hehe
The Puritan Work Ethic is under the skin of British work culture and is pathological in its effects. For example, a major UK survey (quoted recently by The Guardian) showed that 6 out of 10 British workers dislike their jobs, suffer insecurity and stress, fret over inadequate income, feel that their work isn’t of use to society, and find themselves exhausted by the time they get home. A 1995 National Opinion Poll (NOP) revealed that 50% of British workers say work makes them depressed, and 43% have problems sleeping because of work. So unless you regard stress-related illness as character building, these findings don’t really support the idea of work being morally uplifting.
The hard work ethic has also conditioned us to see happiness as something that must be earned through toil.
I don't subscribe to this outdated reference. Many do.
yes, the difference is that in the us it's like work, work, and work more... just production. that makes people unhappy, since if life were only work, there wouldn't exist other things like hobbies, friends, travels, non architectural books, theatre, sports, drinks and so on. but this is sthg americans will become aware of sooner or later.
Any happy architects here?
I've been reading some of the postings here and there is so much negativity about the field that makes me wonder! are there ANY happy architects here who actually like their profession?
I'm curious about this too...if everyone's so unhappy being an architect, why put yourself through it? There must be a reason to do it...
it's a service industry, not a profession.
in case you hadn't heard.
I am happy. I am moving away from a traditional architects role however - primarily as a reaction to the common varieties of unhappiness outlined in other threads.
with the way things are going these days you could say that about pretty much every industry. you are always providing a service wether you like it or not! it's somebody else's money, at least it's not a painfull service industry, like selling shoes!
diabase, what are you going to be doing?
as soon as i start developing my own projects things will be rockin
I have set up a consultancy producing "high-end" concepts for a developer, as well as masterplanning and design strategies. We are an adjunct of the development company. We dont do working drawings, but we do oversee other architects and draughting practices. It is mostly residential - at the moment I am working on a masterplan for 140 apartments, a retail fitout and a 3-4 level hotel, as well as my own office.
I have no idea what I am doing or what anyone else is thinking. I am financially, socially, and artistically disoriented and disenfranchised. I react to most architecture with either confusion or indignation. What I want and what I get are becoming increasingly divergent.
On the other hand, architects are fun to hang out with and party better than anyone. They like outdoor sports and are less materialistic than other professionals. All and all, if I had it all to do over again - - - I wouldn't change a single thing.
what is that supposed to mean?
sorry didnt mean to sound like that
wow, I haven't even started architecture school and already I'm terrified!
paris! IM WITH YOU!!!!
think about it very carefully...
you know justin I think joining this forum was a major mistake, I mean I'm not afraid of hard work but this is just out of control!
well I did survive art school in which my spirit was crushed and spat on, on a daily basis for four years, I don't think anything could be worse than that!
Any happy architects here?
WHAT KIND OF FUCKIN MORON ARE YOU?!?! ASKING A STOOPID QUESTION LIKE THAT! HELL NO!!!!!! ANG GO FUKYERSELF!
...but these happy pills the doctor gave me are starting to work.
Cheers!
I strongly suspect that, somewhere in cyberspace, identical discussions are being held among dissatisfied lawyers, physicians, teachers, bankers, nurses, filmmakers, artists and others.
The question in any profession is not whether or not there is plenty to dislike (there always is), but whether or not there is enough of the exciting and satisfying to offset the humdrum and disappointing aspects we all must slog through (each person has to figure that out for her/himself).
how is art school so bad? oh is it because artists don't get paid anything?
i think the reason why i got into architecture is because i don't know what else i could do and i love architecture, despite the tribulations ahead. . .lawyers complain just as much as architects do. med school is really long.
even though architecture may be a bitch at first, i think in the long run, it is really rewarding. i think at the end. . .there's this sense of accomplishment and achievement. . that you've survived and in return, you're the one who gets to really design.
also put into consideration that a majority of this forum just got out of arch school so they're going through the worst part of the career. . . where they don't get paid very well and are the 'CAD monkeys'
that's what i've observed so far..
good luck paris! we both got a long way to go
I saw Revenge of the Sith today @ 1pm and it was great, oh and work is going very well thank you.
actually that's not true, you could always sell your work but there is no such thing as a steady income in that field.
the school that I went to was packed with amazing artists and the level of competition was way up there and the instructors made sure that we went through hell on a daily basis with harsh criticism and an insane amount of work just to keep the vanity level low and also prepare us for the "real world". the crits were pretty bad, I saw this 30 year old guy cry once in class, pretty harsh
well paris, you can look forward to more of that...
I think I could handle that, after a while you get used to it...
that's scary. i cry easily.
ahhh, you get used to it, once you hear "my cat draws feet better than you do"yelled at you in front of 30 people you're pretty much set...
did anyone laugh during a really harsh critique? and what happened?
did anyone laugh?you mean laughed at the work? yes
laughed at the presenter? yes
people take the crits too seriously and anyone who has ever taken a single class in an art school knows that art students loooooove to BS.
bunch of intelectuall wannabes who never shut up!
"even though architecture may be a bitch at first, i think in the long run, it is really rewarding. i think at the end. . .there's this sense of accomplishment and achievement. . that you've survived and in return, you're the one who gets to really design."
look, i don't want to sound negative, but i think you really need to think this through from a realistic point of view before you jump in. in my view and experience, very few architects 'get to really design' and feel a sense of reward. Most architects (ie 95% as someone else pointed out) are going to end up in production at a low rate of pay and working long hours, many times working on designs that they do not even like but which are essential to someone else. that's the no BS story.
as far as being happy, i think it's fair to say that happiness depends completely on what you are aiming for and what your expectations are. look closely at what architects really do and how they got where they are now (the decisions they made, where they studied, who they knew). you have to be pretty ambitious and have the right connections and social contacts and business moxsie to start a successful practice or even get a great job. if you are happy working on detail and production to realize what will most likely be someone else's design and/or have a large number of constraints that deal with code or the bottom line or what some developer thinks will sell--then architecture may be for you.
do you mean happy as in gay?
well I've long checked in my sanity and smile all the time, granted that could be because I don't have to design bathroom stalls anymore and run an office of 10 people.
diabase: sounds like a nice little setup
As far as being happy: yeah I guess I am, but my happiness doesn't come from my job. I keep myself occupied with other things (architecture related, of course) that make me feel like my education was somewhat worthwhile. Example: I recently put together a quick proposal for a bamboo flooring company for their display space in Boston (didn't get the job, but it was fun regardless), I'm working on a design competition with a co-worker, I'm fabricating bent-plywood chairs in my garage, and I'm taking my 8-year old niece to MassMOCA this weekend. Yeah, my day job has its little jems of fulfillment, but its what I do after 5pm and on weekends that makes me happy.
I have been doing this for over 25 years, and yes, I am happy. The only thing I don't like is that I put in a ton of hours because we are so busy. I'm part owner in the firm, so thats why. The employees don't work more than 42 or so hours a week. I think you have to have a pretty high level of patience to be happy with this profession. I didn't feel really good at what I was doing until I had about 10 years of experience. I still learn new things every day, which is one of the things I like about what I do. The money can definitely be good. Of course you are not going to make big bucks coming out of school- you hardly know anything! As far as design, I do design every day. Everyone in the firm except a couple of draftsmen designs, even interns. We also spend hours and hours on the phone, doing budgets, talking to clients, out in the field, etc. That's what it takes to get a project done, and for the people here, seeing the project finished and well built is as much of a thrill as the design process. I know lots and lots of people in many professions, and in general I think architecture is pretty much at the top. We do different things every day, the work is challenging and rewarding. It is hard work, but at least when we make a mistake we don't have to tell someone there child just died in surgery. We get to be creative and practical. Other people are enthralled by what we do, and how we can change their lives through architecture. We have flexible hours, set our own schedules, and can work out of our house or in a giant corporation. I can't think of any other profession that would have suited me.
I TOTALLY AGGRE WITH "Dazed and Confused's" CONCLUSION:
>>On the other hand, architects are fun to hang out with and party better than anyone. They like outdoor sports and are less materialistic than other professionals. All and all, if I had it all to do over again - - - I wouldn't change a single thing<<
BUT STILL:
- it's a lousy paid job (that's the reason why we are "less matrialistic"...)
- every fool thinks he can do your job as good as you, only because he took some art-classes at high-school or because he did some paintwork at his last appartment. (maybe that's the reason that we party so good - to forget...)
AND THEN:
only sometimes, we can produce something, that after its realization resembles this first or second idea we had...
and that is the reason why "if I had it all to do over again - - - I wouldn't change a single thing."
cyn, if you don't believe that architecture is a service based industry, or profession, whatever you want to call it, then you better take a hard look at your life. sure you can get a job teaching. you can become a paper architect, but if you seriously want to build, you better acknowledge the client component and their needs unless of course you are very wealthy. you work for them. they pay the bills, and yes, they have the final say as unfortunate as this may be from time to time. you are hired to for your talent and skill, but you can not ignore the clients needs in doing so.
e, did i ever say that i don't believe it? look at my posts again. i have said over and over again that this is the reality. not sure why you think i don't get it. i am simply warning unsuspecting students of this reality. okay?
cool cyn. sorry. i just saw that post where you commented about something i said, and it sounded like you were getting a jab in at me. apologies. peace.
RE:ARCHITECT'S PARTY HABITS
has anyone else considered the correlation of acohol consumption to work-related stress?
my co-worker and i often have "stoop time" (high life and american spirits usually join us) in front of my apartment to recount the day's events.
i'm not glorifying it in the least, but it is pretty much a weekly basis for beer to come out at the office somewhere around 3:30-4. for the most part we're all partiers.
sojlme bboyd get me ;a sdoctoiur.
no e, no jab intended. peace.
just checking in for the record.... I'm happy. I work as a consultant for the time being. My company treats me very well, and I earn a competetive wage. I regret leaving them at the end of summer, but I'm off to get my master's at RISD. After that I will work for misc. architects to get more experience / IDP, then start my own practice or partner up with the firm I am currently with.
new baby = happy. adeline is in the building.
The top-level designer of a complex system is given the honored title of system "architect." Now, if every engineering graduate believes he/she will be hired as or automatically rise to have the responsibility of system architect, then he/she will likewise be sadly disillusioned and bitter.
How ironic that in another recent thread many posters were irate over other industries highjacking the title "architect"!
The reality is that most enterprises/projects are (a) hierarchical and (b) "service" oriented.
The more young upstarts we can put off the better. This job is the for the dedicated, never a dull moment. It's a real passion to be fu**ed off and elated all in one day.
I bear my soul and heart to the corporate construction beast every day - I like a challenge, I beleive the pain makes you stronger.
Congrats Steven
I would consider myself a happy architect. Like the work, like the successes and deal with the difficulties and I am content with what I get paid for doing it. I also happen to have had my own firm for ten years and pick my clients carefully.
I'd would say that if you can't crack a smile of laugh at your critic when in school perhaps you take things too seriously and should not continue in the profession. Its just lines on paper. I remind clients of it all the time, its important to understand what's important, when things get important vs. when to keep things light....
well it all sounds good! I wonder though, is anybody here from europe or asia? I've lived in asia and been to europe many many times and when it comes to work and alot of other things for that matter I found that people are more easy going and they pretty much take their time and now that I live in north america life besiacally equals WORK.
so what's the situation with architects in europe or asia?
stephanie I like your office setup very muchly ;)
architects in europe or asia have their own life, appart from work. not everything in life is work, but i know in north america it's like that: life = work.
Yes, very happy. Not rich, not making cutting edge work, don't break into song when I face a contractor's twentieth RFI, but overall, very happy with the decision I made to follow this passion.
I've been out of school 10 years. Those first few years I often cried as I balanced my empty checkbook at 2AM having just gotten home from the office. It does get better, really.
polipop, I agree. it seems like it's easier finding high paying jobs there too! I haven't even started school yet and i'm getting job offers for after grad... hehe
The Puritan Work Ethic is under the skin of British work culture and is pathological in its effects. For example, a major UK survey (quoted recently by The Guardian) showed that 6 out of 10 British workers dislike their jobs, suffer insecurity and stress, fret over inadequate income, feel that their work isn’t of use to society, and find themselves exhausted by the time they get home. A 1995 National Opinion Poll (NOP) revealed that 50% of British workers say work makes them depressed, and 43% have problems sleeping because of work. So unless you regard stress-related illness as character building, these findings don’t really support the idea of work being morally uplifting.
The hard work ethic has also conditioned us to see happiness as something that must be earned through toil.
I don't subscribe to this outdated reference. Many do.
I think you can say that about most people and most jobs, I mean it's work come on.
yes, the difference is that in the us it's like work, work, and work more... just production. that makes people unhappy, since if life were only work, there wouldn't exist other things like hobbies, friends, travels, non architectural books, theatre, sports, drinks and so on. but this is sthg americans will become aware of sooner or later.
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