Louis Kahn.. i agree. Overseas in Asia, conglomerates such as Samsung are basically monopolies, with the exception of a few celebrity appearances here and there to design. For the most part, they have all the resources they need (engineering, construction, design, interior, green, landscape..). you name it, they probably have people or a dept for it.
FTB
$18 per hour during internship..
low $60k starting..
rusty i'm beginning to realize you're just the archinect jester. at home with no job and all the time in the world to act stupid. haha. congrats
don't be the typical white guy fighting on the internet..
I think you will make a better partner than victimeyes. Sure, he's a rich fuck, but at the end of the day his fingernails are still full of button making pasta. Yuck.
I think I'm more in the mood for some intellectual intercourse.
i know you're just cracking jokes, but those last two posts were corny. you seem to lose your edge when you start to try to hard. there you go hating people again for your own bitter reasons..
FTB
yea, rusty can be smart at times, the only problem is that he doesn't know when to really be..
Also, changing your posts instantly once you realize how much of an idiot you sounded like by saying I'm almost there and then posting a photo of a guy dressed up as Edward Norton from American History X.
victimeyes, you called me every name in the book for basically disagreeing with you that opportunities for architects are abundant. For someone who has really figured his shit out (as you claim) why so touchy? One thing your "high $80K" can't seem to buy is class, it seems.
I hope you learn some humility before the market adjusts in your field. That time when business owners, pressed with increasing competition, realize that paying $80K+ for someone with only adobe cs/maya/rhino skills and no computer coding experience, is kind of like flushing money down the toilet. Happens all the time.
In fact, don't be surprised if you're unemployed a year from now.
OK, accepting that architecture doesn't offer that transferable a skill base and also that "archi-grads can be anything" might be good marketing, I'm still interested to hear from people who made the jump into different fields - how they did it and whether architecture helped or hindered them. Bonus points for detail on how your technical (software, building codes, policy) and soft skills (culture, attitude, networking) influenced the transition.
victimeyes, do you or coworkers have any foresight into the long-term agenda of your company? I assume you would have to keep up with change, just like any other profession.
in the past it seemed that the company would focus on one-time projects that clients specifically asked for (product design). but as the company started picking up momentum and relations with clients solidified, it seems as though we're moving into doing everything for the client, forming long term partnerships (product design + branding + marketing + strategy + etc)
all our clients are big time corporations that you would know.
"all our clients are big time corporations that you would know."
and back to my very first post on the topic:
""what is ux?"
Kid friendly way of saying corporate whore."
Which got your panties all in a twist to begin with victimeyes.
Also, a quick lookup of salaries for user interface designers reveals that those holding a Computer Science degrees can expect $43-103k during the career development.
as an aside - what bugs me is that the term "technical skills" in architecture is used interchangeably with mastery of certain tools (both digital and analog) and a deep understanding of building sciences. which is it?
oh, hey! You finally learned to post functioning links! Good on ya!
Something doesn't add up there. All the positions listed are either managers, leads, senior developers, or technical architects (the other kind). Does anyone do actual work? And those salaries are in line with what computer engineers expect to make. What's your actual position?
I'm going to call you out on something else as well. A number of people have asked you how you got into the such position. Don't you think in's only fair to share?You're trying to help out after all...
Me thinks you are still interning for $18/h and have found out what other people in your company make, gleefully unaware that you will never be qualified to fill in any of those positions. Ever. You're just not qualified.
Something about you doesn't scream management material. Your inability to deal with criticism. People skills. etc...
I looked deeper into one of these UX darlings: RAZORFISH!!!!!!!
razorfish (once owned by Microsoft) is now owned by one of the biggest ADVERTISING companies in the world. So nothing has changed since Season 1 of Madmen.
They have job listings (for anyone interested). Almost half of the positions are listed as freelance. But of high-end kind: freelance Art Director, freelance Senior IT Architect, freelance senior project manager, etc...
How can such positions work as freelance? Are they just looking into creative ways to not pay payroll taxes and health insurance? That would be my guess.
Every position I clicked on appears like it was written by a Nigerian scam artist. Vague as fuck. They also seem to be hiring a lot of recruiters.
victimeyes, is that your job? A recruiter? You're not doing a great job so far, but there's always room for improvement.
Rusty, what is your point? My point (talking about your spec writing) is that, in the way you consider UX to not be part of architecture, by your definition, someone might not consider spec writing to be part of 'real' architecture as well. It is not design, per se.
You have yourself claimed that it accounted for 100% of your income at one point. Does that make you any less of a designer?
For the record, I am myself employed in an architecture/urban design firm, but have many friends who have made the jump from traditional architecture to Advertising, Interface design, Graphic design, even places like Sony Imageworks. I have even met a very high-level official in a real estate bank who used to be an architect.
Hell, one of the top industrial designers at IDEO I know is also an architect by education. They are constantly looking for architects because (they think) we can think better than artists in a spatial environment.
The point is, who are you, or anyone for that matter to define what someone with an architecture degree is to do with their lives? Making blanket statements like UX 'does not contribute socially' is plain misinformed. Personally, I feel that as an interface designer or graphic designer, one has a chance to touch lives in a positive manner in a much more effective way than architecture, but I do not go on rants about how people should not join architecture offices after graduation.
The bottomline is that these jobs exist, and the people I am mentioning also exist, and are making a decent living at it - so that is proof that people with architecture degrees can get into these things. The fact that you choose a traditional path does not mean everyone has to.
Hell, Archinect had a whole feature called "Out of the Box" did it not?
Let's not confuse UX with UI. UI is about the interface or graphic design. UX is about saying, this laptop fan needs to be smaller--it's too loud, or this laptop fan needs to be bigger--the laptop is too hot.
Rusty, I'm really curious as to what you do, and what your pay is. It seems to me like you're out of touch with today's pay expectations. Janitors at my little sister's high school is paid 60k. They're paid 90k in NYC. I know a very young HVAC tech who grabs 70k. My older sibling makes >80k and all she knows is Adobe CS. I've been in the software industry myself, and 60k for a UI guy (Interaction Designer) early his career is about right.
interesting thread. this thread resonates with me on several levels.
i am preparing for a similar sort of transition, but keeping my options open to architecture if it works out. but i have to say, it seems the alternative career path pays much better, has no license requirement, has much more reasonable work hours and quality of life, and is a less volatile industry. it does make me wonder, even if i can get back into architecture, is it worth it? would i be crazy (masochistic) to do so?
beyond that, and to answer dobs' question, if i do transition, i'll have put in the time. i'm in a phd program in arch, but have quietly taken enough human factors, computer science and industrial engineering classes that I'm close to a master of science in human factors with a focus on product and interface design --- which, does relate to my dissertation (intelligent/responsive healthcare architecture).
and speaking of which, i do not see UX or UI and architecture as that far apart -- certainly not going forward. the computer in a box is waning. HP's decision to spin off its pc division attests to this --- Right now pc power is going toward tablets and smartphones. but the technology to make the pc a finish coating on your wall or a leaf of paper in your notebook already exists in working order and in a sufficiently advanced state that it will be commercialized in the next 10-15 years. for instance, philips is already commercializing it for special medical and high-end retail applications as part of an interactive wall covering system.
so that is the display, but what about interfaces for entering and manipulating data? if you've ever played with a Kinect, you know that it has revolutionized game play. it also happens to be very popular with researchers conducting experiments with gesture recognition and camera vision. there are many other sensor network, computer vision, voice and gesture recognition research efforts underway as well.
bringing this back to architecture, it seems as though increasingly over the next few decades, the displays and means of controlling the computer will move out of the boxes and into the architectural envelope. The only question will be, do architects have a seat at the table or will we have abdicated that knowledge domain, too?
lastly, another area where our skills seem to translate well is systems engineering, FYI, though there are more significant barriers to entry for this field.
packaging science --- i know ppl doing very well in that and a few arch grads transitioning to it --- high growth, some transferable knowledge with our field, good pay, reasonable hours
industrial & organizational psych --- opportunity, good pay, can factor back into arch for larger corporate and institutional clients during pre-design services or POE
I want to reiterate an earlier posting: "OK, accepting that architecture doesn't offer that transferable a skill base and also that "archi-grads can be anything" might be good marketing, I'm still interested to hear from people who made the jump into different fields - how they did it and whether architecture helped or hindered them. Bonus points for detail on how your technical (software, building codes, policy) and soft skills (culture, attitude, networking) influenced the transition. "
I think both rusty and victimeyes are foolish. You've mutually destroyed this thread from being productive with petty quibbling.
I am about to be 23, just did 4 years at Washington University in St. Louis so I have a BS in Architecture, which is like having your balls cut off in an already screwed market (no 5 yr. degree, etc.). On top of that, I figured I would move into St. Louis city and be one of the "high minded" urban saviors that has come to bring youth and money into an economically deprived region.
The irony is that I am now flat broke, with little to no prospects. I have been trying to move in the direction of urban planning (plan on going to grad school for that, probably real soon) and would love to hear if anyone has anything in that direction (opposite of the tech savvy side of architecture), that they would like to suggest.
staying out of the quibbling above, i'm surprised no one's brought up joe gebbia during this discussion. who's he? well, just a designer (risd grad from the 00's) and a self professed 'designpreneur' who's gotten out there and created a few things.
oh, and he co-founded a little company called airbnb back in 2008 and has done all their ux/ui/u whatever. that little side venture just closed on another round of funding which puts the valuation of the company at 1B (with a "b" as in boy).
now, i'm going to just point out the obvious: architecture is a wonderful profession, but it's a long, methodical, plodding career choice. it'd be foolish to say 'stay away from it' or any other career path where those skills can translate over. just make sure you love it....
I got a 4 year undergraduates in architecture, and had trouble finding anyone who would pay me to do anything for them.
I started an engineering degree and in my first summer, doing mostly drafting work, I'm making more money as a student than most firms were hiring unpapered architects.
Perhaps seek a drafting position? Just something to tide you over while you're looking? It keeps you in the game, and putting together plans and sections and elevations. Suffer being a CAD monkey for a while and keep looking for the dream job.
Rusty, what is your point? My point (talking about your spec writing) is that, in the way you consider UX to not be part of architecture, by your definition, someone might not consider spec writing to be part of 'real' architecture as well. It is not design, per se.
Rusty's point, but I maybe off-base, is that UX is another "vapor" industry. It's useful now but will it always be useful? What if engineers, *GASP,* learn some basic design skills and incorporate their newly learned knowledge into the products they put out?
As I see it, UX is the bridge between design (conceptual and technical) and implementation (consumer and user).
If we look at one of Razorfish's more major clients, JCPenney, they seem to be pushing Ambrielle brand underwear in the same way Limited Brands (Victoria Secret) pushes underwear. The only difference is that mid-end to high-end clothing companies have always used UX (interaction, demos, media-rich websites, fashion shows) to their advantage.
However, Ambrielle's pedigree stops at the door of JCPenney's. It's made by PT. BUSANAREMAJA AGRACIPTA. The same company who makes Playtex, Fruit of the Loom, H&M, DKNY et cetera. So, all UX has done in this case, is cover up the fact this really isn't a "quality" product and you can get the same thing from a much cheaper big-box retailer.
It just gives the allure of ingenuity while copying the methods of industry leaders and is marketing re-branding marketing.
In college the engineering school had asked the architecture school to offer a studio course to help teach iterative problem solving, questioning assumptions/parameters and the idea of multiple solutions to the same problem - quite a departure from the traditional engineering curriculum. The rest of the campus got wind of the course and encouraged their students to take the class, which was offered at the earliest time of day (not a particularly attractive "elective" time slot) but was packed every semester.
Specific knowledge might be hard to apply but the pedagogy seems to apply, some of my peers went on to med school and wall street and are doing just fine.
Anyone looking for Architecture Colleges in India? I have come across from the infrawindow.com, this website have many information about colleges and projects.
Victim eyes/Donna, someone has already made the most relevant observation -- architecture school prepares you to wait tables. In fact, if the SNAAP data tells us anything, you may be more likely to wait tables than practice architecture (that would depend on whether or not you think waiting tables is a creative job).
My complaint about all of this talking up UX is that I spent a decade working as an information architect before I went to architecture school -- that's the guy who supervises the interface designer. So the three years I spent learning how a building could go together was well spent if I could go back to a job I was promoted from before I graduated from college with my degree in archeology? If you buy that argument, then you aren't very good at problem solving or critical thinking.
I do think architectural education gives students a vast array of knowledge and design skills which can be applied to other fields, the thing is every field has it's hard skill requirements as well as soft skill requirements. The ability to conceptualize, design and solve problems are (transferrable) soft skills. UX designers come from various backgrounds like computer science, psychology, business, graphic design etc. because entry barriers are low it looks attractive to people who want to change careers. UI is completely different from UX. You actually need to have a computer science degree or
years of experience with programming background. In other words, UX designer is the architect and UI designer is the engineer but it takes years to master UX as in all fields. I actually hate the fact that the term UX is thrown around only for web and app development. UX is simply usability. Usability encompasses every thing we see and use. It could be making aircraft screens more readable or designing elevator buttons. It applies to architecture too:
- Who are you designing the building for?
- Approximately how many people are going to use the building?
- How will people navigate the building and what are the spaces they are going to use more/less at what times?
See this is all usability. According to this diagram ux includes architecture too:
http://www.kickerstudio.com/blog/images/ux_disciplines_rev_big.jpg
That being said the current UX positions include only web/interface design and the UX designers I've seen often come from front end development. If you browse job descriptions and requirements you'll see the most common requirements are: mastering the Adobe package, HTML, CSS, Javascript/Jquery; optional: AJAX, Flash etc. HTML/CSS knowledge is necessary to do mockups and communicate with UI engineers. Learning all these is no small task not to mention UX= design + usability testing, user research, user behavior + (some)coding so that means learning to code, reading s%&t loads of books, observing people and constantly keeping up with new technologies. A side note: UX positions are mostly contract based unless you work for a giant corp.
Designing a building space is different from designing a website because in architecture the goal is to organize empty space whereas in web design everything revolves around content. UX is not about selecting the color orange (that's more of the role of a graphic designer) but maybe reducing the selections in a the drop down menu because the human mind can't hold more than 7 pieces of information at a time.
The UX field is already oversaturated...with unqualified people. There is a big demand for senior UX designers because experienced people were all lost in the dot com boom. There are tons of people who take advantage of the UX bubble to make extra bucks and call themselves UX designers just like there are Photoshop artists who call themselves web designers. I don't know how they design but reading their pseudo-intellectual fluff gives me such a WTF experience! Applying minimalism on a web site is not UX as only putting solar panels on a house doesn't make it sustainable.
As the market levels out the cream of the crop will rise to the top while the Visio carrying wireframe ninjas will get discarded. This is not to insult anybody, all I'm saying is usability design takes more effort than just drawing boxes. That girl in the Out of Box section got her undergrad in neuropsychology so it probably helped her. If you have the drive to learn more then go for it. If you're thinking of switching to another design field you should thoroughly research the field, check out job descriptions and requirements, decide if it is worth all the training and "just make sure you love it". It takes effort and people who say you can switch to UX architecture/information architecture with ease sound like the white bearded guy from Matrix.."I'm THE architect". If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
I have a B.arch and a masters in Lighting design. I am currently working as a lighting designer with the hope to go back to architecture. Don't know what would be a smart move for me since I am having a real hard job even finding an entry level position... Should I go back to grad school and do an M.arch? its really frustrating not to be able to do what you love and studied for .hhhmmm. Please help me! I need serious consulting with people in the field!
Unemployed? Architect graduates don't have to be Architects
i agree with a comment above about monopolizing the built environment. Maybe then we could create more jobs and live richly and comfortably.
@ LK:
yes!
@ victimeyes
you got me really curious now. Was your internship paid?
ftp: "you got me really curious now. Was your internship paid?"
Hey! He made it clear that he makes twice as much as an unpaid architecture intern!
Louis Kahn.. i agree. Overseas in Asia, conglomerates such as Samsung are basically monopolies, with the exception of a few celebrity appearances here and there to design. For the most part, they have all the resources they need (engineering, construction, design, interior, green, landscape..). you name it, they probably have people or a dept for it.
FTB
$18 per hour during internship..
low $60k starting..
rusty i'm beginning to realize you're just the archinect jester. at home with no job and all the time in the world to act stupid. haha. congrats
don't be the typical white guy fighting on the internet..
keep it constructive..
$18 per hour during internship
1.5 years in: High $80K
that means:
3 years in: high $170K
9 years in: high $1.49M
15 years in: $35.1M
Fuck! Are you single? Will you marry me?
My momma took a picture of me last week:
If you like, let's chat! I like it when you call me stupid. It makes my dot-matrix spin all up.
gotta say that is a pretty funny interpretation of rusty
but he can be smart at times too
aww thanks ftp!
I think you will make a better partner than victimeyes. Sure, he's a rich fuck, but at the end of the day his fingernails are still full of button making pasta. Yuck.
I think I'm more in the mood for some intellectual intercourse.
rusty
i know you're just cracking jokes, but those last two posts were corny. you seem to lose your edge when you start to try to hard. there you go hating people again for your own bitter reasons..
FTB
yea, rusty can be smart at times, the only problem is that he doesn't know when to really be..
I'd post a hilarious picture right now but I might be called a skinhead racist.
dont let the pompous professor get to you james
J. James
if you're not racist, then it's all good..
Stereotypes.
You have no credibility past this post.
Also, changing your posts instantly once you realize how much of an idiot you sounded like by saying I'm almost there and then posting a photo of a guy dressed up as Edward Norton from American History X.
Holy shit, changing your post three times in a row!
QUADRUPLE POST. JUST FOR FUN.
victimeyes, you called me every name in the book for basically disagreeing with you that opportunities for architects are abundant. For someone who has really figured his shit out (as you claim) why so touchy? One thing your "high $80K" can't seem to buy is class, it seems.
I hope you learn some humility before the market adjusts in your field. That time when business owners, pressed with increasing competition, realize that paying $80K+ for someone with only adobe cs/maya/rhino skills and no computer coding experience, is kind of like flushing money down the toilet. Happens all the time.
In fact, don't be surprised if you're unemployed a year from now.
Remember my words.
rusty
once you start talking about class, i quit reading.
OK, accepting that architecture doesn't offer that transferable a skill base and also that "archi-grads can be anything" might be good marketing, I'm still interested to hear from people who made the jump into different fields - how they did it and whether architecture helped or hindered them. Bonus points for detail on how your technical (software, building codes, policy) and soft skills (culture, attitude, networking) influenced the transition.
victimeyes, do you or coworkers have any foresight into the long-term agenda of your company? I assume you would have to keep up with change, just like any other profession.
FTB
in the past it seemed that the company would focus on one-time projects that clients specifically asked for (product design). but as the company started picking up momentum and relations with clients solidified, it seems as though we're moving into doing everything for the client, forming long term partnerships (product design + branding + marketing + strategy + etc)
all our clients are big time corporations that you would know.
"all our clients are big time corporations that you would know."
and back to my very first post on the topic:
""what is ux?"
Kid friendly way of saying corporate whore."
Which got your panties all in a twist to begin with victimeyes.
Also, a quick lookup of salaries for user interface designers reveals that those holding a Computer Science degrees can expect $43-103k during the career development.
Which also makes you a lying sack of shit.
check out these interaction design positions.. as well as industrial design, product design, visual design positions at these top design firms
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/R-GA-Salaries-E23929.htm
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/IDEO-Salaries-E9948.htm
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/Razorfish-Salaries-E32953.htm
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/HUGE-Salaries-E139928.htm
http://www.glassdoor.com/Salary/frog-design-Salaries-E9826.htm
victim - do you work for a marketing/ad agency?
as an aside - what bugs me is that the term "technical skills" in architecture is used interchangeably with mastery of certain tools (both digital and analog) and a deep understanding of building sciences. which is it?
oh, hey! You finally learned to post functioning links! Good on ya!
Something doesn't add up there. All the positions listed are either managers, leads, senior developers, or technical architects (the other kind). Does anyone do actual work? And those salaries are in line with what computer engineers expect to make. What's your actual position?
I'm going to call you out on something else as well. A number of people have asked you how you got into the such position. Don't you think in's only fair to share?You're trying to help out after all...
Me thinks you are still interning for $18/h and have found out what other people in your company make, gleefully unaware that you will never be qualified to fill in any of those positions. Ever. You're just not qualified.
Something about you doesn't scream management material. Your inability to deal with criticism. People skills. etc...
i wonder how many architecture students actually end up getting licensed
I remember reading somewhere that in the 90's it was about 50%.
I looked deeper into one of these UX darlings: RAZORFISH!!!!!!!
razorfish (once owned by Microsoft) is now owned by one of the biggest ADVERTISING companies in the world. So nothing has changed since Season 1 of Madmen.
They have job listings (for anyone interested). Almost half of the positions are listed as freelance. But of high-end kind: freelance Art Director, freelance Senior IT Architect, freelance senior project manager, etc...
How can such positions work as freelance? Are they just looking into creative ways to not pay payroll taxes and health insurance? That would be my guess.
Every position I clicked on appears like it was written by a Nigerian scam artist. Vague as fuck. They also seem to be hiring a lot of recruiters.
victimeyes, is that your job? A recruiter? You're not doing a great job so far, but there's always room for improvement.
Rusty, what is your point? My point (talking about your spec writing) is that, in the way you consider UX to not be part of architecture, by your definition, someone might not consider spec writing to be part of 'real' architecture as well. It is not design, per se.
You have yourself claimed that it accounted for 100% of your income at one point. Does that make you any less of a designer?
For the record, I am myself employed in an architecture/urban design firm, but have many friends who have made the jump from traditional architecture to Advertising, Interface design, Graphic design, even places like Sony Imageworks. I have even met a very high-level official in a real estate bank who used to be an architect.
Hell, one of the top industrial designers at IDEO I know is also an architect by education. They are constantly looking for architects because (they think) we can think better than artists in a spatial environment.
The point is, who are you, or anyone for that matter to define what someone with an architecture degree is to do with their lives? Making blanket statements like UX 'does not contribute socially' is plain misinformed. Personally, I feel that as an interface designer or graphic designer, one has a chance to touch lives in a positive manner in a much more effective way than architecture, but I do not go on rants about how people should not join architecture offices after graduation.
The bottomline is that these jobs exist, and the people I am mentioning also exist, and are making a decent living at it - so that is proof that people with architecture degrees can get into these things. The fact that you choose a traditional path does not mean everyone has to.
Hell, Archinect had a whole feature called "Out of the Box" did it not?
Let's not confuse UX with UI. UI is about the interface or graphic design. UX is about saying, this laptop fan needs to be smaller--it's too loud, or this laptop fan needs to be bigger--the laptop is too hot.
Rusty, I'm really curious as to what you do, and what your pay is. It seems to me like you're out of touch with today's pay expectations. Janitors at my little sister's high school is paid 60k. They're paid 90k in NYC. I know a very young HVAC tech who grabs 70k. My older sibling makes >80k and all she knows is Adobe CS. I've been in the software industry myself, and 60k for a UI guy (Interaction Designer) early his career is about right.
interesting thread. this thread resonates with me on several levels.
i am preparing for a similar sort of transition, but keeping my options open to architecture if it works out. but i have to say, it seems the alternative career path pays much better, has no license requirement, has much more reasonable work hours and quality of life, and is a less volatile industry. it does make me wonder, even if i can get back into architecture, is it worth it? would i be crazy (masochistic) to do so?
beyond that, and to answer dobs' question, if i do transition, i'll have put in the time. i'm in a phd program in arch, but have quietly taken enough human factors, computer science and industrial engineering classes that I'm close to a master of science in human factors with a focus on product and interface design --- which, does relate to my dissertation (intelligent/responsive healthcare architecture).
and speaking of which, i do not see UX or UI and architecture as that far apart -- certainly not going forward. the computer in a box is waning. HP's decision to spin off its pc division attests to this --- Right now pc power is going toward tablets and smartphones. but the technology to make the pc a finish coating on your wall or a leaf of paper in your notebook already exists in working order and in a sufficiently advanced state that it will be commercialized in the next 10-15 years. for instance, philips is already commercializing it for special medical and high-end retail applications as part of an interactive wall covering system.
so that is the display, but what about interfaces for entering and manipulating data? if you've ever played with a Kinect, you know that it has revolutionized game play. it also happens to be very popular with researchers conducting experiments with gesture recognition and camera vision. there are many other sensor network, computer vision, voice and gesture recognition research efforts underway as well.
bringing this back to architecture, it seems as though increasingly over the next few decades, the displays and means of controlling the computer will move out of the boxes and into the architectural envelope. The only question will be, do architects have a seat at the table or will we have abdicated that knowledge domain, too?
lastly, another area where our skills seem to translate well is systems engineering, FYI, though there are more significant barriers to entry for this field.
some other good ones are:
packaging science --- i know ppl doing very well in that and a few arch grads transitioning to it --- high growth, some transferable knowledge with our field, good pay, reasonable hours
industrial & organizational psych --- opportunity, good pay, can factor back into arch for larger corporate and institutional clients during pre-design services or POE
I want to reiterate an earlier posting: "OK, accepting that architecture doesn't offer that transferable a skill base and also that "archi-grads can be anything" might be good marketing, I'm still interested to hear from people who made the jump into different fields - how they did it and whether architecture helped or hindered them. Bonus points for detail on how your technical (software, building codes, policy) and soft skills (culture, attitude, networking) influenced the transition. "
I think both rusty and victimeyes are foolish. You've mutually destroyed this thread from being productive with petty quibbling.
I am about to be 23, just did 4 years at Washington University in St. Louis so I have a BS in Architecture, which is like having your balls cut off in an already screwed market (no 5 yr. degree, etc.). On top of that, I figured I would move into St. Louis city and be one of the "high minded" urban saviors that has come to bring youth and money into an economically deprived region.
The irony is that I am now flat broke, with little to no prospects. I have been trying to move in the direction of urban planning (plan on going to grad school for that, probably real soon) and would love to hear if anyone has anything in that direction (opposite of the tech savvy side of architecture), that they would like to suggest.
Thanks.
too far guys.
staying out of the quibbling above, i'm surprised no one's brought up joe gebbia during this discussion. who's he? well, just a designer (risd grad from the 00's) and a self professed 'designpreneur' who's gotten out there and created a few things.
oh, and he co-founded a little company called airbnb back in 2008 and has done all their ux/ui/u whatever. that little side venture just closed on another round of funding which puts the valuation of the company at 1B (with a "b" as in boy).
now, i'm going to just point out the obvious: architecture is a wonderful profession, but it's a long, methodical, plodding career choice. it'd be foolish to say 'stay away from it' or any other career path where those skills can translate over. just make sure you love it....
@kuanb
I got a 4 year undergraduates in architecture, and had trouble finding anyone who would pay me to do anything for them.
I started an engineering degree and in my first summer, doing mostly drafting work, I'm making more money as a student than most firms were hiring unpapered architects.
Perhaps seek a drafting position? Just something to tide you over while you're looking? It keeps you in the game, and putting together plans and sections and elevations. Suffer being a CAD monkey for a while and keep looking for the dream job.
Rusty, what is your point? My point (talking about your spec writing) is that, in the way you consider UX to not be part of architecture, by your definition, someone might not consider spec writing to be part of 'real' architecture as well. It is not design, per se.
Rusty's point, but I maybe off-base, is that UX is another "vapor" industry. It's useful now but will it always be useful? What if engineers, *GASP,* learn some basic design skills and incorporate their newly learned knowledge into the products they put out?
As I see it, UX is the bridge between design (conceptual and technical) and implementation (consumer and user).
If we look at one of Razorfish's more major clients, JCPenney, they seem to be pushing Ambrielle brand underwear in the same way Limited Brands (Victoria Secret) pushes underwear. The only difference is that mid-end to high-end clothing companies have always used UX (interaction, demos, media-rich websites, fashion shows) to their advantage.
However, Ambrielle's pedigree stops at the door of JCPenney's. It's made by PT. BUSANAREMAJA AGRACIPTA. The same company who makes Playtex, Fruit of the Loom, H&M, DKNY et cetera. So, all UX has done in this case, is cover up the fact this really isn't a "quality" product and you can get the same thing from a much cheaper big-box retailer.
It just gives the allure of ingenuity while copying the methods of industry leaders and is marketing re-branding marketing.
In college the engineering school had asked the architecture school to offer a studio course to help teach iterative problem solving, questioning assumptions/parameters and the idea of multiple solutions to the same problem - quite a departure from the traditional engineering curriculum. The rest of the campus got wind of the course and encouraged their students to take the class, which was offered at the earliest time of day (not a particularly attractive "elective" time slot) but was packed every semester.
Specific knowledge might be hard to apply but the pedagogy seems to apply, some of my peers went on to med school and wall street and are doing just fine.
Anyone looking for Architecture Colleges in India? I have come across from the infrawindow.com, this website have many information about colleges and projects.
Victim eyes/Donna, someone has already made the most relevant observation -- architecture school prepares you to wait tables. In fact, if the SNAAP data tells us anything, you may be more likely to wait tables than practice architecture (that would depend on whether or not you think waiting tables is a creative job). My complaint about all of this talking up UX is that I spent a decade working as an information architect before I went to architecture school -- that's the guy who supervises the interface designer. So the three years I spent learning how a building could go together was well spent if I could go back to a job I was promoted from before I graduated from college with my degree in archeology? If you buy that argument, then you aren't very good at problem solving or critical thinking.
I do think architectural education gives students a vast array of knowledge and design skills which can be applied to other fields, the thing is every field has it's hard skill requirements as well as soft skill requirements. The ability to conceptualize, design and solve problems are (transferrable) soft skills. UX designers come from various backgrounds like computer science, psychology, business, graphic design etc. because entry barriers are low it looks attractive to people who want to change careers. UI is completely different from UX. You actually need to have a computer science degree or
years of experience with programming background. In other words, UX designer is the architect and UI designer is the engineer but it takes years to master UX as in all fields. I actually hate the fact that the term UX is thrown around only for web and app development. UX is simply usability. Usability encompasses every thing we see and use. It could be making aircraft screens more readable or designing elevator buttons. It applies to architecture too:
- Who are you designing the building for?
- Approximately how many people are going to use the building?
- How will people navigate the building and what are the spaces they are going to use more/less at what times?
See this is all usability. According to this diagram ux includes architecture too:
http://www.kickerstudio.com/blog/images/ux_disciplines_rev_big.jpg
That being said the current UX positions include only web/interface design and the UX designers I've seen often come from front end development. If you browse job descriptions and requirements you'll see the most common requirements are: mastering the Adobe package, HTML, CSS, Javascript/Jquery; optional: AJAX, Flash etc. HTML/CSS knowledge is necessary to do mockups and communicate with UI engineers. Learning all these is no small task not to mention UX= design + usability testing, user research, user behavior + (some)coding so that means learning to code, reading s%&t loads of books, observing people and constantly keeping up with new technologies. A side note: UX positions are mostly contract based unless you work for a giant corp.
Designing a building space is different from designing a website because in architecture the goal is to organize empty space whereas in web design everything revolves around content. UX is not about selecting the color orange (that's more of the role of a graphic designer) but maybe reducing the selections in a the drop down menu because the human mind can't hold more than 7 pieces of information at a time.
The UX field is already oversaturated...with unqualified people. There is a big demand for senior UX designers because experienced people were all lost in the dot com boom. There are tons of people who take advantage of the UX bubble to make extra bucks and call themselves UX designers just like there are Photoshop artists who call themselves web designers. I don't know how they design but reading their pseudo-intellectual fluff gives me such a WTF experience! Applying minimalism on a web site is not UX as only putting solar panels on a house doesn't make it sustainable.
As the market levels out the cream of the crop will rise to the top while the Visio carrying wireframe ninjas will get discarded. This is not to insult anybody, all I'm saying is usability design takes more effort than just drawing boxes. That girl in the Out of Box section got her undergrad in neuropsychology so it probably helped her. If you have the drive to learn more then go for it. If you're thinking of switching to another design field you should thoroughly research the field, check out job descriptions and requirements, decide if it is worth all the training and "just make sure you love it". It takes effort and people who say you can switch to UX architecture/information architecture with ease sound like the white bearded guy from Matrix.."I'm THE architect". If it sounds too good to be true it probably is.
Hello All,
I have a B.arch and a masters in Lighting design. I am currently working as a lighting designer with the hope to go back to architecture. Don't know what would be a smart move for me since I am having a real hard job even finding an entry level position... Should I go back to grad school and do an M.arch? its really frustrating not to be able to do what you love and studied for .hhhmmm. Please help me! I need serious consulting with people in the field!
wut
we all question architecture at some point, though a response still alludes me.
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