you're not the only one that feels this way. at the end of 4 months you may also feel differently. hard things are worth doing because they're hard. just don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. keep your options open -- and maybe have a heart-to-heart with your boss to see how you can continue without "selling out" if that's possible.

What are you going to do instead?

Tell your boss how it is before you leave. He should know, and maybe he'll think twice before making someone else work long hours with little pay.

I recently worked at a firm where there was one guy that would leave at 5pm, everyday, regardless. Much respect for him. He realize that his priority was his family, not the office. No one else there did that. Takes a lot of courage and confidence to leave when others are staying.

More people should be like him.

Good luck (fyi, it took me about 6 months to reach that conclusion).

amen. designing is second in my life only behind loved ones and breathing.. but the 'profession' of architecture is such a perversion of what i love that i feel like crying all day long (i'd rant on this for hundreds of pages, with agreat many explitives describing my impression of the way this field works, but that wouldn't do anyone any good). i too am hanging it up in the professional architecture sense, but only so i can go to grad school. hopefully starting over will afford an opportunity to make the profession i hate in to the pursuit i love.
good luck.

moto,
sometimes taking a break will do wonders. When I was younger, I dropped out of architecture and became a firefighter. After several years, I am now back doing design/build. Although I lost several years, I feel it was worth it. Still struggling but wouldnt have it any other way. Plus now i qualify for a pension.

I agree with all.

And I have to say, a break does wonders to your perspective on the whole, to the academic or the professional reality.

Throughout my undergraduate experience I really fought with the program, with myself-- in that is was a very frustrtating and confusing experience, full of inept profs and generally negetive experiences. I started taking other outside electives, loved them and really questioned my position within architecture. The last year came, and it all came together. I had a great studio, teh students, the profs, the project (www.canadianmuseumforhumanrights.com, modelled after the competition), and it really highlighted the opportunities out there that could marry my interest in strong social organizations, with architecture.

I'm in the midst of a year off in between more schooling, and to say the least, I'm so antsy to get back at it, I can't sit still. I've researched some amazing firms, some amazing organizations/conferences that really put a bit of faith back into architecture for me (albeit, i know, this isnt the bulk of hte profession) and it also allowed me to strongly question what aspects I really enjoy, which ones i can do without, and how i hsould go about focusing on my strenghts.

even if you take a break, or dive into other fields, there still remains an amazing level of comfort in the familiar---it was a surprising reaction for me. I guess I challenge everyone who's frustrated (and I know there's plenty) to really figure out what aspect you love about this crazy field, and to actively pursue it. Your personal happiness is worth it, and you don't want to end up the bitter, enraged professionals we have all come into contact with.

because the last part is crap. we need to do better than that.

and i'm all for the 5pm end-o-work deadline. our arch culture is getting out of control.

i find that architecture opens my mind up to so many other possibilites... so much so that i can't seem to focus my mind anymore. i wish i never had to sleep so i could do everything that i want. asking questions about my path only seems to bring up more questions.

meversusyou,

That's exactly how I feel. Although I've never been able to put it into words. I see architecture purely as a fun money making activity. If it's not making money for me it's not fun. From a "profession" point of view.

mcgillicuddy: i especially agree with your last two statements
meversusyou: exactly.
tectonic: i'm not sure if you're implying that money really is that important (i suspect not), if so, i disagree completely. i certainly agree that for the most part architects are underpaid and deserve more, but if i could do the kind of work i want to, i'd work for less than free. :)
this is an important discussion, and in general i'm glad no one has yet said anything like 'oh, stop your whining!'... i despise hearing that.

I really have dispared at times over whether I could handle the 'studio culture' that is so prevalent in architecture. I've fallen into a pattern of not treating myself (especially my physical self) well because of the degradation, humiliation, and physically exhausting practices that are expected of us. I'm trying really hard to work through all this stuff while staying in architecture, and hope I've found a firm where those elements are discouraged (it seems so, we'll see once I actually start working there). Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say is that I certainly see why you're giving it up, but I hope that there are more firms out there who have the courage to break these patterns and treat their employees well, so that we don't keep losing people who could have been great. Some of the best designers in my earlier studios have left architecture because they valued themselves too much to be treated that way.

I think another thing we have to think about with regards to this is those who not only submit to this treatment, but glamorize it. I know plenty of people who enjoy the attention they get when they go on about how long they've gone without sleep, or how they forget to eat: who have a pride in how much abuse they can take from a teacher or employer, or in how they don't care about the money and will do anything for their art. I used to think this way, and now I realize how sick that is. Architecture is here to serve the needs of humans, not the other way around.

if one who has put so much time and effort into his own personal cause of architecture/design, then decides to leave, i would think that his mental abilities/processes would decline into a state of apathy. its the vicious cycle of the profession. you may hate it, but NOTHING else can give you so much to think about (good and bad).

i've had the convo with my professors in school, they all say, leave, but you will come back, whether its in a day, or a year or 50 years, you'll still come back.

i'll probably die bitter, full of mental and physical problems, probably even alone, but in the meantime, lets draw stuff...

btw, i've made alot of comments back to the fountainhead recently, i've picked it up again after a few years, and a degree...

think of what cameron says to roark on his deathbed... he says even though he was ridiculed, passed up, stepped on, etc, he wouldnt have it any other way.

amen to that. i wont let 'architecture' beat me.

This thread raises an important topic it took me several years to figure out: there is a vast difference between architecture and architectural practice. Admiring buildings and landscapes--their design, differences, contexts, meanings--is not the same thing as making sure they get built. The first part, admiration, most people have (anybody ever hear "I always wanted to be an architect, but..."); the second part, production, can be a soul-killer. Project management can devolve into a time-consuming black hole of administration, correspondence, babysitting, conflict and bureaucratic bs. Design becomes a smaller and smaller part of the process (for many), and the rewards fail to compensate for all the trouble.

"The average architect who draws plans for building developments operates at roughly the same intellectual and social level as the attendant in a filling station..."

George Nelson in "Problems of Design"

A fantastic read by one of the most prolific writer and designer of the 20th century. Sometimes, I wish our design education would consist of more intellectual criticism in the manner of Nelson than El Croquis case-study, XXXism that are permeating all levels of frontier practices and design school these days.

Since I do not believe in the teleology in design culture, I think it is really alarming to hear the same things being ranted on this board again and again after all these years.

you must leave take what you need you think will last
but whatever you wish to keep you better grab it fast.
yonder stands an orphan with his gun
drawing crazy patterns on the sun
the sky too is falling in on you
and its all over now, baby blue.

there is nothing further from architectural education than architectural practice. its sort of like finding out your beautiful bride is actually just a guy with nice legs.

what else can I say but,

HAHA it's so horrifically ironic and awful!

never mind, at least we have drinkable water, unlike what, 10-20% of the human population? (at least)

Just look at people who have it worse, a wonderful human trait that never ceases or dies away...

Im fresh out of school, and after seeing all of your rants, Im thinking I need to come up with some Q's during interviews to weed out firms who make people go psycho or want to walk out the door and never look back.
If there were to be a firm that was practicing successfully (good business, good design, happy lives of employees) what specifically would it be doing to accomplish this?
(Or what would it avoid doing?)

Unfortunately, C, it's the nature of practice and the profession, not any particular firm.

That said, don't be too discouraged. There are plenty--plenty--of folks who are not soured on practice as some of us have become. This thread has quite a few posts, but that's a small fraction of the field. You'll do fine.

wow this is depressing. . .. for a high schooler

Sorry, Justin, this is as much about life, work, and expectations as it is about architecture. Again, lots and lots of people DON'T feel this way, in our profession and in EVERY other one.

I'm not sure if that is going to make Justin feel better.

Yeah, I'm an idealist....I still have as much enthusiasm for it as I always did. Then again I like my bosses and my job, all of our work isn't crap and I am well paid. But some of our work is crap, and when I have to do that I just take it in stride....life isn't all roses all the time. That's why you have to stop and smell them when it is!

Now if you'll excuse me I have to go outside, skip thru puddles and break out into song, lol

This is an excellent thread. I must agree with almost everything that has been said.

Who out there goes into architecture because they can't wait to write ASI's, RFCOP's, manage paper trails of memo's, etc. etc.

When the reality of "getting architecture built" really starts to sink in it is very depressing. College doesn't prepare students for real world working environments and it can be a shock of sorts.

Myself, I'm still not sure if this is where I want to be for the rest of my life. For the time being the little bit of fun I have in designing gets me by. Someday when I have a family my priorities may change, but time will only tell.

What I hate is people who give the preverbial answer of "quit whining" or "change careers." I'm sure we are all just as passionate about architecture. It's tough to leave that profession I'm sure.

I think threads like this are frusturation just because we are so much more passionate about our profession than others in the working world. I see this with optimism that we do care. If it comes across as negative, well, they just don't understand.

signum: thanks for stating the obvious cliche. but if all of society stopped complaining about the 'relatively' insignificant things in their life, then there would be no progress at all. just because there are those who are worse off isn't an excuse not to try to make things better wherever you are (or whatever you do).
i think for all of us, this argument/complaint runs as deep as is possible given our 'priveleged' lives.

mcgillicuddy: did you study at McGill?

well, some people might see this as a discouraging thread, but i like to see it as a challenge. it motivates to work "smarter" (and not harder) to try and make myself a good life once i get my diploma.

Plus I've heard all of these rants before, from one of my profs: he was, and still is, a dreamer... he worked a few years in offices, hated it, the people the practice everything, he couldn't function in the real world... so he turned to teaching and tries to change the practice by changing the students.

cSquared- 1) find an office where you both respect the work built, AND enjoy the part you play in it. One or the other isn't enough. You're not going to be happy at a starchitect if all you're doing is cadmonkey work and ansering phones, and you're not going to be happy as the star designer at a place that won't let you do anything interesting. 2) I've had really bad experiences with firms that hired me as an 'independent contractor' even though I worked just like an employee. In general those firms have not had enough concern for the welfare of their employees (way too long hours all the time, overly harsh environment, etc.)

I'm sure there's more things from other people, but that's what I've learned to look at from my past (less than stellar) experiences.

A's comments resonate with me. I still love architecture, even its practice... sometimes. It's just that I don't want to have to rely on that grinding process for my sole livelihood for the next thirty years.

So, I'm sort of taking the route that Cloutier's prof did, though not totally, I hope. I don't want complete escape, just variety. I'm getting a PhD so that I can get paid (hopefully) to research, write, and teach about architecture and cities... still pursue the part I still crave. Meantime, I'll use the license and the work experience to occasionally do the fun project (again, hopefully).

citizen, I don't know how far along you are on your PhD but I don't see very 'bright' hopes in the academia...No doubt there is a growing need to hire design faculty who can both teach studios and some theoretical classes (research) but tenure positions are on the decline. Without tenure, most people are struggling at very low salaries for teaching long hours, not to mention preparation and collegial services that are expected in an adjunct position. Unless teaching is also one of your loves, I don't see the academia as one of the ideal places personally.

I have more or less figured this out: going to do it for self-enlightenment than anything else. IT is really wonderful to wake up in the morning with all the books waiting to be read and papers to be written!

BE, you couldn't be more correct about the academic situation. I figure I'm adding one more low-paid job possibility to my accomplishments. And (unless your last para. was ironic instead of sincere) your approach suits me fine. I love writing and research as much as designing; my dissertation is every bit as engaging to me as my design thesis was.

But you're right about the big picture, too. Just as project management is the dreck I must endure to spend a little time designing, so teaching will be the slog-fest to be gotten through in order to do scholarship.

I'm not "finished with architecture" as it turns out. I'm branching out in order to stay with it.

I hear you moto.

In the creative professions, the distinction between personal passion and professional duty is instantly muddied, and forever vacillating. I’ve found it much better psychologically to keep this distinction as clear as is possible. Work is work. It sustains me financially. Often I am inspired by certain work projects but I know when to draw the line. I do an outstanding job, partly out of duty and partly because what I learn will be valuable experience in my own future practice. Though I may be managing projects, they aren’t my projects, they’re the principal’s. That knowledge keeps me from going ‘balls to the wall’ and burning myself out.


It really helps to have an employer that respects a 40-50 hr work week. We usually average 45-60 hrs. I think this happens because we actually feel a tad guilty - we’ve heard of the sweatshop stories. The partners at our firm work longer hrs than us (workers), but they own the firm - it’s their liability and investment, not ours. I would do the same if I owned my own firm. I would expect dutiful and excellent workers, not obsessive and imbalanced ones.

Passionate, inspired people will burn themselves out no matter what. Though my work hrs are good, I spend nearly all of the rest of the time pursuing my own interests in art, architecture, history, and philosophy, laying a groundwork for future personal projects.

heterarchy, I know what you're saying too, but sorry, I just can't help but think about it this way...of course I know what is being said in this post is important, and worth discussing, but like I say...

I wasn't meaning to be critical of the post!

signum: sorry i got kind of jumpy, i was just assuming and waiting for someone to say what you said, had already started stewing over it before you wrote it, took it out on you, then realized i was being an ass. :)

citizen, my last paragraph is as bit as sincere as it is true. In my observation, though design education (in architecture) liberates through a very different form and process, it also sometimes constricts thinking to think that design is all we are capable of. In this light, I think doing the PhD does broaden and train other faculties as well.

I did not imagine that I will come to love teaching before my venture into this program (not studio but a theory class). Though most students are still exhibiting the almighty studio syndrome, it is quite indescrible to push a nonchalant student to become an interested one, and then on to one who is self-motivated. I think this is something that cannot be achieved when working with CMU and 2 by 4.

That's encouraging to me, BE. Thanks for the self-disclosure on your professional journey. Though I haven't had full-on teaching responsibilities yet, my part-time classroom experience has been rewarding. My new direction is urban design and planning --specifically, the history of the built environment. It's been fascinating for me to learn about this, and also rewarding to see students catch a glimmer of understanding about all the forces that shape the urban landscape ...besides architectural design.

Citizen, just wondering where you are pursuing your Phd, as i hav ereally strong interests in urban design/planning/buit environment in general. I have applied recently to design programs, as i love cities and built environment, but am questioning my path. Worked as a municipal planner for a few years and found it really uninspired, at least where i am at, no vision, just political pandering.

At USC.

Don't give up architecture because of other people or because of what they think architecture should be. Look inside yourself. Remember the reason that made you choose the path of architecture.
Then you will find a way to practise architecture in a way that you like.

the work deteriorates soon after 40hr/wk.

unless you really devote your life to work - take a couple hours break at 5 and work from 7 -10. something like that.