We have always taken a stand to only do work that suits our goals as a design/build firm. We reject a substantial amount of work based on the clients desire to do projects we'd rather not have in our portfolio with reasons typcially focusing on aesthetic but sometimes for them not listening to sound advice on say, reasonable grading, tree clearing or being sensitive to the built environment.
We are professional in our rejection and reasons but clients still get bent out of shape that we won't work with them. How do you best present your rejection to clients without appearing to be an ass?
How about a simple, "we don't do that here"? One office I worked at got an absurd amount of calls from people who wanted us to "draft plan cheap", and that's what I got to tell them.
You can also just say it's not going to work with your schedule - that's what we do although it's usually true because we are so small. Or we tell them they can't afford us, and most people seem to take it in stride...
i used to work for a woman in sf. she often did the same thing as the doctor stated. direct them to someone who you think will be able to help them out. the most important thing i learned from my old boss is that it is just as important to interview your client as it is for them to interview you.
"I am sorry mr hussein but you are a dictator with a very poor human rights record and i do not believe that the term "palace of peace" is a viable description of an underground nuclear bunker with thunderbird 1 capabilities"
do you see a sign in front of my office that says "shitty architecture firm"? No because this ain't no shitty architecture firm.
followed up by:
does (insert name here) look lke a bitch?
then why you trying to fuck him like a bitch!
i have learned if you talk about yourself in the third person in front of clients they get scared and do almost everything you say. Make them scared, very scared.
I can't believe how rude most of these posts are. Perhaps thats why the average person prefers to not work with an architect and thinks we are all elitist snobs who wear black and funny glasses.
Just remember that its a small world. The person you tell to **** off this week may sit on some committee or school board or whatever for some project you want in two years, or may badmouth you to a friend that you WOULD like to work with. Your fine architecture may be too good for them, but treat them like humans. People want to work with an architect who's asthetic they appreciate, but they also want you to be a decent human being who is a fun person to work with. Any one who is sensitive to the environment should be sensitive to other people's desires and dreams, even if they do contradict with yours. Find an architect who does what they want- there are PLENTY of starving architects out there who will do any kind of job to feed their families- and refer work to him/her. Just tell the person that you know someone who is much better qualified to handle their specific project- it aligns perfectly with their experience and type of work, and make the reference. Your trash is someone else's treasure.
to quote Whistler (in response to archie) "Be polite. Have some humility. No need to offend people. Then start a thread on Archinect about the silly request so we can all enjoy and partake. "
that's why I said "most of the posts" are rude. Whistler, e and a few others were not, but most were rude. Are most architects rude in general, or just most posters on this thread? I sincerely hope that most of the posters were just blowing off steam or fantasizing about blowing off a client a bit and would never actually be that rude to a human being who just wants to hire them for a project (the nerve of those clients- wanting to reduce our art form to a paid contractual transaction...... where they get something they like, no less!!!)
i'm sorry archie we don't do that kind of post here. however, you may like to try a thread more qualified to handle your specific needs. such as, "sensitive people and their sensitive dreams" or "the strip mall: my trash is your treasure" or maybe even "5 easy steps for turning an art form into a hollow contractual transaction".
man, you're right...being nice is easy and nobody is insulated or upset.
1. To cause to be in a detached or isolated position. See Synonyms at isolate.
2. To prevent the passage of heat, electricity, or sound into or out of, especially by surrounding with a nonconducting material.
actually, from the handbook of professional practice;
architect must his client know the capabilities, experience or luck of it on a given project, state the office work load and personnel available for a given time period, availibilty of consultants must be determined. and estimated fees must be presented on an initial first meeting. this is a proffessional code at the beginning. in a good business practice, if you are for some reason not interested in a given client's project, whatever the reason, you must simply state it why, and so they know what you are interested and good at it. this might bring referrals from them even when you did not take their project. you should also help them go to right place, what to ask and what to expect from whom.
most of the rude stuff happens later, usually stem from wrong expectations and miscommunications from either party. when it comes to breaking point, a polite letter should do the job. if it is nasty level, re read your contract, consult a lawyer and gather all project documents in order.
most of you here are young, and dying to get your first project. follow the book that sets standarts for your work. and if you get the job, you will have a lot of chances to express who you are and what your priorities are in the project and win client's trust and respect to your profession. usually leading to a good work. be honest about yourself and if your client is not trustworthy you will know sooner than later. if it gets really bad, time to arrange a meeting and show up with your friend from the jewish mafia who is the son of industrial laundry business owner..
it's funny how some took my question serious and others acted like punks. guess that shows the breath of users we have here. LOTS of students.....very few at all suggested the HONESTY approach. interesting...
archie said it best when stating we may have to face these people again in some forum or another. we are VERY polite but stand firm in our integrity on the kind of work we'll do and the clients ultimately appreciate that honesty. we do NOT give them some BS line or inflated price to get rid of them.
we don't mind standing up for our core values rather than take a chicken shit approach to ditching them. i'd guess those same guys here would lie to a girl on why she's getting dumped so you do not have to deal with reality? LOL do the next guy in line a favor and tell her honestly so she may work on it. same with a client.
we are always politely honest, no matter how raw the content, and it never bites us in the ass. that doesn't seem to be the consensus here on how to approach this subject.
I generally agree with you although in our case most of the projects we turn down are because the clients have unreasonable expectations or because of their personality (these are often connected). We do try to be as polite as possible and explain our position, but complete honesty does not always seem to be the best solution. Or rather, we present the side of the reasoning that we can say nicely and leave out the fact that we think they will never be able to find anyone to give them what they are asking for for the amount of money they want to spend.
i dont understand the rejecting clients concept........id focus my effort in conducting clients into what should be done with the resources and program etc
As a fortunate Architect who has had to turn away work often, I find it very humbling that people want to pay you to do something you love. So to turn them away I feel very blessed. However, It is with regret that I often do it and I don't like to ( the business side of me says " the guys going to pay someone to do the work might as well be me" a client taught me that). But it also assumes it is not a wacky request, if it is a wacky request then certainly the need to be so graceful may not need necessarily be required.
id only reject something that is requesting to break the law, everything else is manageable, conductible, negotiable........humbled by the fact i need work and have never rejected it for any reason
Believe it or not, we get many many requests from people who have about 50% of the money they need. We always go over the process with them, explain what the averages are for construction costs in the area at the moment, why what they are looking for (high end design usually) will cost them more, etc. And they often continue to insist that there must be a way for us to do it... we've done several of these jobs and decided if we can weed out those who want everything but don't want to pay for it our lives will be much easier. I would hope with time we will be better able to convince people that we know what we are talking about (our office is only a few years old and we look young), and also hopefully our friends will stop referring people to us and saying "they're young and resourceful, I'm sure they can do something for you" :-)
Also, we do design/build, so it's extremely important that if we take a job we make sure we can design something that is within their budget, or do a good job of explaining why it will cost more.
We have a rival firm that we dish work off to that we don't want. Some projects can be real losers and our principals do choose to pass some jobs up. If you can recommend another architect's services it appears quite humble and honest.
I usually refuse anyone that is coming to me unprofessionally
like Aunt Mae calling you on the phone, telling you how she's already designed everything and just wants you to draw the plans for her this evening so that the contractor who's been employed and paid to be put on site can start before the weekend. Shit like that makes me mad, and seeking alcohol for solutios instead of going like Geoffery on your familia. Its an insult but perhaps lies in the fact that the public generally does not understand what an architect does since the other parts of our work is usually attributed to others when in fact they lie with us
i have learned the easiest way to reject a client is to let them decide not to use you. I uasually start by saying i am to expensive for a project like this and that the project is not even worth doing. I try to be more negative then them about the project and thus giving them second thoughts. Everytime i do this i either end up with a client that really really wants to do the project no matter what or i get a "thanks but no thanks" at the end of the meeting. It is also good because if i end up getting the job it is at an inflated fee. I have also learned to never do work for family unless you do it for free.
and why does everyone think that they can build a house for 35 dollors a squaare foot? You don't know a guy that can do the work for free!!
this is why i have gray hairs
Mar 16, 05 9:24 am ·
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Your best line to reject client
We have always taken a stand to only do work that suits our goals as a design/build firm. We reject a substantial amount of work based on the clients desire to do projects we'd rather not have in our portfolio with reasons typcially focusing on aesthetic but sometimes for them not listening to sound advice on say, reasonable grading, tree clearing or being sensitive to the built environment.
We are professional in our rejection and reasons but clients still get bent out of shape that we won't work with them. How do you best present your rejection to clients without appearing to be an ass?
BLAH BLAH BLAH...but we can still be friends!!!!
Suture, I said CLIENTS, not DATES.
LOL
Now that I see that it does look like a date-dumping reference.
do it like Howard Roark does it.
How about a simple, "we don't do that here"? One office I worked at got an absurd amount of calls from people who wanted us to "draft plan cheap", and that's what I got to tell them.
You can also just say it's not going to work with your schedule - that's what we do although it's usually true because we are so small. Or we tell them they can't afford us, and most people seem to take it in stride...
its not you its me...
please listen as repetition often offends
Just say:
"Who is this?"
-or- if they are in the room with you
"Who are you anyway?"
That should do it.
You reject clients? At my present firm, if a dog came in asking for a new kennel, we'd do it.
just say, "That's not how I roll." Then mumble something unintelligible about your meds.
same story here diabase
for the question, i think the best way to do it is to say 'no' for the actual reasons but then suggest some other offices who might want to do it.
i agree its difficult to be harsh when we, as a profession depend so much upon social contacts to grow.
Be polite. Have some humility. No need to offend people. Then start a thread on Archinect about the silly request so we can all enjoy and partake.
"We're not set up to do what you're looking for"
"F$#k off loser......Tell your friends!"
"This world was not made for the two of us."
the real way to reject a client is to give them a price quote that is way too high.
"peanut butter"
I remember when i met with Glenn Murcutt he championed the phrase, "start the way you want to finish"
The nice way: "I don't think I'm the right architect for you"
which means: "fuck off tosser! You bloody wanker!"
firm and direct:"what you are suggesting offends me!"
which means: "you want me to sweat and not pay me?"
"you don't need an architect, you need a good psychiatrist!"
"I will smoke weed while working on your project".
tell all the truth.
i used to work for a woman in sf. she often did the same thing as the doctor stated. direct them to someone who you think will be able to help them out. the most important thing i learned from my old boss is that it is just as important to interview your client as it is for them to interview you.
"I am sorry mr hussein but you are a dictator with a very poor human rights record and i do not believe that the term "palace of peace" is a viable description of an underground nuclear bunker with thunderbird 1 capabilities"
or,
"i am sorry mr. bush, but your church has a good library. how about some new carpets?"
abra:
i dont get that one totally
???????????????????????
lol abracadabra
do you see a sign in front of my office that says "shitty architecture firm"? No because this ain't no shitty architecture firm.
followed up by:
does (insert name here) look lke a bitch?
then why you trying to fuck him like a bitch!
i have learned if you talk about yourself in the third person in front of clients they get scared and do almost everything you say. Make them scared, very scared.
A scottish one:
"GET TAE FUCK YA CUNT!!!"
[shrug shoulders]
"I am sorry you feel that way"
I can't believe how rude most of these posts are. Perhaps thats why the average person prefers to not work with an architect and thinks we are all elitist snobs who wear black and funny glasses.
Just remember that its a small world. The person you tell to **** off this week may sit on some committee or school board or whatever for some project you want in two years, or may badmouth you to a friend that you WOULD like to work with. Your fine architecture may be too good for them, but treat them like humans. People want to work with an architect who's asthetic they appreciate, but they also want you to be a decent human being who is a fun person to work with. Any one who is sensitive to the environment should be sensitive to other people's desires and dreams, even if they do contradict with yours. Find an architect who does what they want- there are PLENTY of starving architects out there who will do any kind of job to feed their families- and refer work to him/her. Just tell the person that you know someone who is much better qualified to handle their specific project- it aligns perfectly with their experience and type of work, and make the reference. Your trash is someone else's treasure.
to quote Whistler (in response to archie) "Be polite. Have some humility. No need to offend people. Then start a thread on Archinect about the silly request so we can all enjoy and partake. "
Entertainment, take it or leave it...
that's why I said "most of the posts" are rude. Whistler, e and a few others were not, but most were rude. Are most architects rude in general, or just most posters on this thread? I sincerely hope that most of the posters were just blowing off steam or fantasizing about blowing off a client a bit and would never actually be that rude to a human being who just wants to hire them for a project (the nerve of those clients- wanting to reduce our art form to a paid contractual transaction...... where they get something they like, no less!!!)
i'm sorry archie we don't do that kind of post here. however, you may like to try a thread more qualified to handle your specific needs. such as, "sensitive people and their sensitive dreams" or "the strip mall: my trash is your treasure" or maybe even "5 easy steps for turning an art form into a hollow contractual transaction".
man, you're right...being nice is easy and nobody is insulated or upset.
i am very "insulated"by your remarks jay.
in·su·late
tr.v. in·su·lat·ed, in·su·lat·ing, in·su·lates
1. To cause to be in a detached or isolated position. See Synonyms at isolate.
2. To prevent the passage of heat, electricity, or sound into or out of, especially by surrounding with a nonconducting material.
sounds fine to me
actually, from the handbook of professional practice;
architect must his client know the capabilities, experience or luck of it on a given project, state the office work load and personnel available for a given time period, availibilty of consultants must be determined. and estimated fees must be presented on an initial first meeting. this is a proffessional code at the beginning. in a good business practice, if you are for some reason not interested in a given client's project, whatever the reason, you must simply state it why, and so they know what you are interested and good at it. this might bring referrals from them even when you did not take their project. you should also help them go to right place, what to ask and what to expect from whom.
most of the rude stuff happens later, usually stem from wrong expectations and miscommunications from either party. when it comes to breaking point, a polite letter should do the job. if it is nasty level, re read your contract, consult a lawyer and gather all project documents in order.
most of you here are young, and dying to get your first project. follow the book that sets standarts for your work. and if you get the job, you will have a lot of chances to express who you are and what your priorities are in the project and win client's trust and respect to your profession. usually leading to a good work. be honest about yourself and if your client is not trustworthy you will know sooner than later. if it gets really bad, time to arrange a meeting and show up with your friend from the jewish mafia who is the son of industrial laundry business owner..
it's funny how some took my question serious and others acted like punks. guess that shows the breath of users we have here. LOTS of students.....very few at all suggested the HONESTY approach. interesting...
archie said it best when stating we may have to face these people again in some forum or another. we are VERY polite but stand firm in our integrity on the kind of work we'll do and the clients ultimately appreciate that honesty. we do NOT give them some BS line or inflated price to get rid of them.
we don't mind standing up for our core values rather than take a chicken shit approach to ditching them. i'd guess those same guys here would lie to a girl on why she's getting dumped so you do not have to deal with reality? LOL do the next guy in line a favor and tell her honestly so she may work on it. same with a client.
we are always politely honest, no matter how raw the content, and it never bites us in the ass. that doesn't seem to be the consensus here on how to approach this subject.
thanks for the input.
I generally agree with you although in our case most of the projects we turn down are because the clients have unreasonable expectations or because of their personality (these are often connected). We do try to be as polite as possible and explain our position, but complete honesty does not always seem to be the best solution. Or rather, we present the side of the reasoning that we can say nicely and leave out the fact that we think they will never be able to find anyone to give them what they are asking for for the amount of money they want to spend.
i dont understand the rejecting clients concept........id focus my effort in conducting clients into what should be done with the resources and program etc
As a fortunate Architect who has had to turn away work often, I find it very humbling that people want to pay you to do something you love. So to turn them away I feel very blessed. However, It is with regret that I often do it and I don't like to ( the business side of me says " the guys going to pay someone to do the work might as well be me" a client taught me that). But it also assumes it is not a wacky request, if it is a wacky request then certainly the need to be so graceful may not need necessarily be required.
id only reject something that is requesting to break the law, everything else is manageable, conductible, negotiable........humbled by the fact i need work and have never rejected it for any reason
Believe it or not, we get many many requests from people who have about 50% of the money they need. We always go over the process with them, explain what the averages are for construction costs in the area at the moment, why what they are looking for (high end design usually) will cost them more, etc. And they often continue to insist that there must be a way for us to do it... we've done several of these jobs and decided if we can weed out those who want everything but don't want to pay for it our lives will be much easier. I would hope with time we will be better able to convince people that we know what we are talking about (our office is only a few years old and we look young), and also hopefully our friends will stop referring people to us and saying "they're young and resourceful, I'm sure they can do something for you" :-)
Also, we do design/build, so it's extremely important that if we take a job we make sure we can design something that is within their budget, or do a good job of explaining why it will cost more.
We have a rival firm that we dish work off to that we don't want. Some projects can be real losers and our principals do choose to pass some jobs up. If you can recommend another architect's services it appears quite humble and honest.
I usually refuse anyone that is coming to me unprofessionally
like Aunt Mae calling you on the phone, telling you how she's already designed everything and just wants you to draw the plans for her this evening so that the contractor who's been employed and paid to be put on site can start before the weekend. Shit like that makes me mad, and seeking alcohol for solutios instead of going like Geoffery on your familia. Its an insult but perhaps lies in the fact that the public generally does not understand what an architect does since the other parts of our work is usually attributed to others when in fact they lie with us
i have learned the easiest way to reject a client is to let them decide not to use you. I uasually start by saying i am to expensive for a project like this and that the project is not even worth doing. I try to be more negative then them about the project and thus giving them second thoughts. Everytime i do this i either end up with a client that really really wants to do the project no matter what or i get a "thanks but no thanks" at the end of the meeting. It is also good because if i end up getting the job it is at an inflated fee. I have also learned to never do work for family unless you do it for free.
and why does everyone think that they can build a house for 35 dollors a squaare foot? You don't know a guy that can do the work for free!!
this is why i have gray hairs
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