Do Americans not put a U in caulk? I even say the U when I speak that way there is no confusion.
Nov 28, 24 10:54 am ·
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OddArchitect
We do, my auto correct turned caulk to calk. I had been texting a buddy of mine who is a farrier and we were discussing calk which s a metal cleat on a horse shoe.
For a small structure like that, structural glazing is possible and is obviously what is being done there. The glass is more than capable of holding itself up and together with structural silicone joints in that tiny thing. Glass has a higher modulus than steel. It's just very brittle.
Nov 26, 24 2:01 pm ·
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Wood Guy
.
Nov 26, 24 2:07 pm ·
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OddArchitect
gwharton - Look at the second image. I don't think it's very small.
I'm not sure what modulus you're specifically referring to for the glass. Modulus of elasticity? Could you clarify?
Nov 26, 24 2:16 pm ·
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gwharton
From the standpoint of material strength and deflection, that thing is tiny. It would only need a secondary support structure if there were intermediate panel joints interrupting vertical continuity. Those are the weak points. Since the glass wall panels are continuous from floor to roof, and the wall span is not really long enough to have un-braced intermediate wall segments, it doesn't need any other structure than itself.
Nov 26, 24 2:19 pm ·
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Wood Guy
Glass has a higher modulus of elasticity than steel--a given shape will be stiffer. But it has a lower plastic modulus, i.e. glass will break before bending too far. Steel which will bend farther before it loses its ability to "bounce back"--its yield point.
I'm not sure about that gwharton - with snow loading I'm not sure this would work. Then again, if there was not snow loading . . . .
Nov 26, 24 4:43 pm ·
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OddArchitect
The typical for structural glass supported on all four sides is L/225 plus 1/4" for spans beyond 13 feet or so. You can find structural glass with a deflection of L/275. The code minimum is L/175.
To be honest this strikes me as a design-assist build with whoever is manufacturing the glass system. So they likely have structural considerations pretty well hidden into a proprietary series of glass connections. My guess would be a rigid moment connection hidden in the ~6" black base, and you can see the glass fins acting as a portal frame to the opening on either side. There's also a pretty large clip evident at the middle of the header, which is directing the center load to the two fins on L/R of the opening as mentioned. Its spanning back to a similar clip anchored into the building.
Also for the inevitable dirt that will accumulate a frit pattern for the horizontal glazing is generally a good idea to make the schmutz less noticeable (compared to clear glass)
I know this isn't the question, but I'm going to go ahead and express my opinion that this is not good design. It's very show-offy. The existing house is traditional, there are ways to make a contemporary, glassy version of traditional that isn't as techy as this. And the way the downspout is angled to go around it is making me laugh.
Man, architects are a sour lot. 'It will work, but you're doing it wrong' is like the default setting most of the time with us ;-)
It's a simple extension using a glass system. Nothing magic about it. Except they are doing it wrong. I dont like that British (or British looking?) example either. They clearly did it wrong. Too much context not enough invention. Really the question is what would BIG do, if they could do a 10m2 extension to someone's back yard?
But so is the british mews extension. Its just less meh.
Don't get me wrong I am happy to champion invention and effort, or even nice normalcy if we must, but I dont know that we get anywhere by saying everything is shit so reflexively all the time.
The internet norm explains the impulse but if we shit on Bjarke Ingels and Norman foster for trying too hard, and then shit on regular work like this for not trying enough, we end up with a lot of half-assed stuff that is not really worth celebrating except for miraculously making it through the gauntlet of negative bile.
With the state of the world being what it is, I find it ironic that we cant help ourselves and just say everything is crap, no matter what. I mean, how self destructive can we be?
the example l posted was purely to show steel framed glass / nothing else nothing more. Literally pulled out of Google. I seen
a lot of exquisite detail of said extension.
It would be a nice room in the hands of a good decorator who can see it as a place to take a nap. I don't like overusing -glass or nothing- philosophy and would watch the overhangs better. Failure starts to unfold from there on.
...but I think the OP was asking specifically about the glass beam connection to the transom panel (and the associated load path).
Dec 2, 24 11:07 am ·
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t a z
It looks like the end of the beam connection has a laminated metal flitch plate type element, but it is a little unclear since there are also what look like fixing holes in the glass (that are not used?).
The beam metal flitch plate has a point fixing that connects it to the glass transom.
Dec 2, 24 11:13 am ·
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t a z
It's possible the transom panel is only attached to the fin columns with structural silicone, but that wouldn't be the best idea. There should be some kind of dead load setting blocks somewhere for the transom to bear on, even if only right at the ends of the span.
Dec 2, 24 11:22 am ·
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t a z
Apologies for going all Balkins on this thread, but after some sleuthing it looks like it may be this company doing the UK glasshouse referenced by OP:
How is the glass on the door beam installed? Won't it fall down? It looks like there is no supporting structure underneath. Structural glass
Structural glass
yes please
Yep, that totally looks like a well thought-out design.
It looks like something.
OP - there is not structure in that thing. Just the aluminum frame holding up the glass.
There are glass fins and some spider clamps, but there is also plenty of caulk.
Structural calk.
more like structural adhesive - calking is for cracks ...
Do Americans not put a U in caulk? I even say the U when I speak that way there is no confusion.
We do, my auto correct turned caulk to calk. I had been texting a buddy of mine who is a farrier and we were discussing calk which s a metal cleat on a horse shoe.
For a small structure like that, structural glazing is possible and is obviously what is being done there. The glass is more than capable of holding itself up and together with structural silicone joints in that tiny thing. Glass has a higher modulus than steel. It's just very brittle.
.
gwharton - Look at the second image. I don't think it's very small.
I'm not sure what modulus you're specifically referring to for the glass. Modulus of elasticity? Could you clarify?
From the standpoint of material strength and deflection, that thing is tiny. It would only need a secondary support structure if there were intermediate panel joints interrupting vertical continuity. Those are the weak points. Since the glass wall panels are continuous from floor to roof, and the wall span is not really long enough to have un-braced intermediate wall segments, it doesn't need any other structure than itself.
Glass has a higher modulus of elasticity than steel--a given shape will be stiffer. But it has a lower plastic modulus, i.e. glass will break before bending too far. Steel which will bend farther before it loses its ability to "bounce back"--its yield point.
I'm not sure about that gwharton - with snow loading I'm not sure this would work. Then again, if there was not snow loading . . . .
The typical for structural glass supported on all four sides is L/225 plus 1/4" for spans beyond 13 feet or so. You can find structural glass with a deflection of L/275. The code minimum is L/175.
To be honest this strikes me as a design-assist build with whoever is manufacturing the glass system. So they likely have structural considerations pretty well hidden into a proprietary series of glass connections. My guess would be a rigid moment connection hidden in the ~6" black base, and you can see the glass fins acting as a portal frame to the opening on either side. There's also a pretty large clip evident at the middle of the header, which is directing the center load to the two fins on L/R of the opening as mentioned. Its spanning back to a similar clip anchored into the building.
Never stow thrones in grass houses.
The magpies in my town would love to crap all over that glass.
Also for the inevitable dirt that will accumulate a frit pattern for the horizontal glazing is generally a good idea to make the schmutz less noticeable (compared to clear glass)
I know this isn't the question, but I'm going to go ahead and express my opinion that this is not good design. It's very show-offy. The existing house is traditional, there are ways to make a contemporary, glassy version of traditional that isn't as techy as this. And the way the downspout is angled to go around it is making me laugh.
Downpipe you meant ? ( wink*)
@Donna
Pj It's more commonly called a downspout
Or rain waterleaders farther north
@Almosthip It's N.America VS The rest of the word .... haha
Phronesis, rainwater leaders would run in the interior of the building where I’m located, downspouts on the exterior.
It’s held up by stupidity and bad decisions
Much like America
Steel windows with zinc roof with skylights or something would look great / appropriate with the style of house the OP shownMan, architects are a sour lot. 'It will work, but you're doing it wrong' is like the default setting most of the time with us ;-)
It's a simple extension using a glass system. Nothing magic about it. Except they are doing it wrong. I dont like that British (or British looking?) example either. They clearly did it wrong. Too much context not enough invention. Really the question is what would BIG do, if they could do a 10m2 extension to someone's back yard?
Will, that cheap version of Apple store looking is meh let’s be clear on that.
yeah, totally.
But so is the british mews extension. Its just less meh.
Don't get me wrong I am happy to champion invention and effort, or even nice normalcy if we must, but I dont know that we get anywhere by saying everything is shit so reflexively all the time.
The internet norm explains the impulse but if we shit on Bjarke Ingels and Norman foster for trying too hard, and then shit on regular work like this for not trying enough, we end up with a lot of half-assed stuff that is not really worth celebrating except for miraculously making it through the gauntlet of negative bile.
With the state of the world being what it is, I find it ironic that we cant help ourselves and just say everything is crap, no matter what. I mean, how self destructive can we be?
the example l posted was purely to show steel framed glass / nothing else nothing more. Literally pulled out of Google. I seen
a lot of exquisite detail of said extension.
It would be a nice room in the hands of a good decorator who can see it as a place to take a nap. I don't like overusing -glass or nothing- philosophy and would watch the overhangs better. Failure starts to unfold from there on.
...but I think the OP was asking specifically about the glass beam connection to the transom panel (and the associated load path).
It looks like the end of the beam connection has a laminated metal flitch plate type element, but it is a little unclear since there are also what look like fixing holes in the glass (that are not used?).
The beam metal flitch plate has a point fixing that connects it to the glass transom.
It's possible the transom panel is only attached to the fin columns with structural silicone, but that wouldn't be the best idea. There should be some kind of dead load setting blocks somewhere for the transom to bear on, even if only right at the ends of the span.
Apologies for going all Balkins on this thread, but after some sleuthing it looks like it may be this company doing the UK glasshouse referenced by OP:
Architectural Glass & Structural Glazing - UK | GlasSpace
Yep. I think you have positively identified the suspects.
I dunno -- good for them to have a business in such a niche part of the construction world
looks slick, if that's your jam
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