I joined this site to ask you all this question rather than reddit ramblers:
I'm working with an architect and have to decide if I want a vaulted great room or if high ceilings in a larger common room can give the same effect.
The house will be in a wooded lot with a view of a pond. I wonder if floor to ceiling windows in a 10' flat ceiling room will produce the same pop as a 12' to 15' vaulted shed roof in a great room.
If I can get away with 10' to 11' or so, I could build a floor above the common room and be much more efficient with my build. I'll attach a floor plan of a simple two story home with a large common room. How high would you make the ceilings in this room before it gets too odd?
I've gone to them with this. They suggested we visit homes/open houses with great rooms to see what we like. He further suggested that there's a large difference between a 10' and a 12' ceiling and either building a model or visiting homes would help. This wasn't much of a help tbh. We are visiting open houses however....
google search and look at the images and let your architect present you with 3d model rendering of multiple ceiling options. No need for photorealistic rendering at the moment.... they should do that and present their suggestion.
Visiting homes / open houses would be great but not always an option. In fact, you should also have 3d models and renderings made.
My architect is pushing for a large great room volume. I question the costs and inefficiencies involved. They suggest cost optimizing comes later in the design process. I suggest basic design elements such as # of floors, size of building etc. are critical to cost and should be made now.
Oct 25, 22 7:24 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Are you sure you hired an architect and are not dealing with a GC or strip-home developer design centre staff?
Oct 25, 22 8:10 am ·
·
Jay1122
Bigger volume is better. In fact I prefer a double height flat ceiling living room. Yes, it will be extra cost and less efficient. But if you just want the most efficient and cheapest house, buying GC built spec house is always cheaper. Since this is a custom build, you should take the opportunity and get non-standard things that you feel is important.
Less interior walls dividing up a space tends to be less expensive in material costs. Energy efficiency can be made, and yes, it takes more energy to heat and cool larger volume but if the design is intelligently done, it can be energy you don't pay a utility company such as passive solar or even geothermal heating/cooling... not to be confused with geothermal power generation. Larger living rooms... aka great rooms tend to be more popular among more younger contemporary/modern life style... where the traditional living room and dining room were merged into a single larger great room because of lifestyle changes from pre- WWII and post-WWII.
you're trying to compare 2 options by looking at a plan that doesn't illustrate the options. your architect should be helping you study and evaluate this instead of pushing you to decide without anything to help you understand the impacts.
i would say 13-14 ft ceilings for that space would be reasonable for the shape and width, though lower could be acceptable. it depends on a lot of things a plan drawing can't show.
Just have the architect do a Revit model of the two different options. Run the Enscape with VR. Make the rooms all white for now. Get a feeling of the two different ceiling setup. Should not take more than a few hours.
In terms of cost. It sounds like a flat ceiling with attic space versus gable roof with sheetrock covered vaulted ceiling? Both with asphalt shingle roof cover. If that is the case, the cost different will be very small. I would go with the sloped ceiling for better great room space. However, if attic space/ room is desired, flat ceiling is also fine.
I am pretty sure this is one of those typical spec build house. Since this is custom, you could make it non standard height.
Oct 25, 22 9:41 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
Revit is not for options. Also, don't think the op can afford revit options if they are crowd-sourcing options.
Meh, it's easy to do options for a simple project like this. Just save the central model as an option and make the changes. Obvious limitations and possible issues apply.
Oct 25, 22 9:48 am ·
·
Jay1122
The plan OP posted looks very "Revit" to me. Probably already built the model with standard components. Just use the "Design Options" feature in the Revit model. Make the Flat ceiling into one Primary model, Set up the vaulted one as an option model.
Oct 25, 22 9:51 am ·
·
Non Sequitur
^Indeed, that corner mullion does say rough revit model.
Or just model the all the ceilings in and hide the ones you don't want to see in the view. Once one is picked just delete the others. Shouldn't take more than 15 minutes to model in 2-3 ceiling volumes.
Totally a Revit model. The entry door has the sill mullion still shown. A typical mistake made by people not experienced in Revit.
After reading thought this thread here are a few thoughts.
1. I don't think you've hired an actual architect. I could be wrong though. Just because someone is allowed to design a single family residence doesn't mean they are an architect (aka licensed).
2. The person you've hired needs to spend an hour doing quick options of the various volumes this could be. Height, shape, exposed structure, exct.
3. You should be speaking with your designer / architect about this and not some randos online. We simply can't know enough about your project from the information you've provided to give an informed response.
4. If you find that you can't continue with your current designer / architects you should be able to terminate the contract. This would be a last resort / nuclear option. Check your contract. You'll need to pay for all of the services up to that point. You will receive all the drawings that have been produced up to that point.
Don't be so harsh. I am pretty sure it is one of the low budget almost like GC spec build style house from that plan. Minimum square footage of desired spaces, maximum efficiency. The whole floor is no more than 1000 SF. Not that much freedom left. It is not the 2-4M modern custom house that requires endless iterations all the way down to the cabinet hinge selections.
Oct 25, 22 10:03 am ·
·
FiveStar
Thanks Chad - I'll be taking this up with our architect. Good point about randos online.. just figured an architectural forum might have some feedback worth listening to.
FiveStar - you do realize that you're asking us to do for free what you're paying your 'architect' to do? That's probably why you're not getting the feedback you'd like.
"Don't be so harsh. I am pretty sure it is one of the low budget almost like GC spec build style house from that plan."
Nothing about my comment was harsh.
I don't think the OP has hired an actual architect to design the home. They are probably an unlicensed
designer or GC doing spec build style homes. Nothing wrong with that.
FiveStar, you are asking us to give you for free what we charge for providing what is part of the professional services we provide. Giving you specific professional advice and expose us to legal liability. Therefore, we wouldn't want to do that for free. We suggest you work with the architect or professional building designer. If the person you have is not an architect or a real professional building designer, and is not willing to provide real professional services, and help you through the study and evaluation of options, you may want to consider terminating services.... though check your contract and if necessary, your lawyer with regards to legal advice about legal matters relating to contracts.
It looks like 12" walls and a typical Passive House-style layout, so I bet this is not a tract home type situation, but the designer/architect is likely into tech and efficiency and maybe not good at convincing clients on aesthetic matters. Or maybe I'm projecting.
I'm generally not a fan of super-high ceilings in homes, even though I do them occasionally. I would lean toward the 10' flat ceiling, maybe with exposed beams to give it some texture.
Id always go for the shed roof in a big living room... the effect will be greater as you'll see more of the trees. Do 2 stories in another part of the house...
What makes a person an architect depends on the definition used and locations regarding their laws and the "statutory definition" where it exists. However, the word 'professional' can not in or of itself be regulated and only is statutorily defined for defining the word in specific statutory contexts.
In any case, the person was asking questions expecting answers we get paid for providing as those are part of the services we make a living from. If we all gave our advice for free, we'd all be out of business. There's a reason why guilds existed and guilds kept closely guarded the 'secrets' of their trades and charge for the use of their time.
Similarly, architects/building design professionals charge for our time to clients. We are liable to the advice we give. The litigious nature of the built environment and the 'finger-pointing' that ensues tends to drag us into lawsuit cases that costs us even to be appearing at court because the time spent there is time we aren't working on things like procuring projects with clients, and working on billable work. Professional advice relating to our profession is billable work.
Additionally, by giving project-specific advice on projects that a project client is in contract with another architect/designer, *can* make us liable to that project even without an actual contract with any of us. There is that potential legal exposure, especially if the project client acted on that advice.
TLDR....In short, you are correct that merely hanging around here doesn't make one an architect or building design professional. However, we shouldn't give away to people who are not in contract with us, professional services which includes professional advice. Even without an established contractual relationship, giving project-specific advice to a project client of a project, whom we are not in contractual relationship, *CAN* result in liability exposure. This project client is in a contractual relationship with someone, the project client should direct the questions to that person. It is good that we aren't really getting into project specific advice.
Kinda a small footprint for a soaring ceiling anyways. Spaces should be proportional. High ceilings make sounds echo and high windows are hard to clean and hard to shade.
Nov 8, 22 8:24 am ·
·
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.
To Vault or Not - Ceiling Question
I joined this site to ask you all this question rather than reddit ramblers:
I'm working with an architect and have to decide if I want a vaulted great room or if high ceilings in a larger common room can give the same effect.
The house will be in a wooded lot with a view of a pond. I wonder if floor to ceiling windows in a 10' flat ceiling room will produce the same pop as a 12' to 15' vaulted shed roof in a great room.
If I can get away with 10' to 11' or so, I could build a floor above the common room and be much more efficient with my build. I'll attach a floor plan of a simple two story home with a large common room. How high would you make the ceilings in this room before it gets too odd?
Thoughts?
Thanks!
Ask your architect. That's you're paying them for after all.
Second and third opinions. How do I know if my architect is good/right or wrong in this respect?
This is why you check references and past projects before hiring your architect. Ceiling should be a geodesic dome anyways. That’s the correct answer.
I second the first opinion.
What does your architect suggest?
I've gone to them with this. They suggested we visit homes/open houses with great rooms to see what we like. He further suggested that there's a large difference between a 10' and a 12' ceiling and either building a model or visiting homes would help. This wasn't much of a help tbh. We are visiting open houses however....
google search and look at the images and let your architect present you with 3d model rendering of multiple ceiling options. No need for photorealistic rendering at the moment.... they should do that and present their suggestion.
Visiting homes / open houses would be great but not always an option. In fact, you should also have 3d models and renderings made.
My architect is pushing for a large great room volume. I question the costs and inefficiencies involved. They suggest cost optimizing comes later in the design process. I suggest basic design elements such as # of floors, size of building etc. are critical to cost and should be made now.
Are you sure you hired an architect and are not dealing with a GC or strip-home developer design centre staff?
Bigger volume is better. In fact I prefer a double height flat ceiling living room. Yes, it will be extra cost and less efficient. But if you just want the most efficient and cheapest house, buying GC built spec house is always cheaper. Since this is a custom build, you should take the opportunity and get non-standard things that you feel is important.
Less interior walls dividing up a space tends to be less expensive in material costs. Energy efficiency can be made, and yes, it takes more energy to heat and cool larger volume but if the design is intelligently done, it can be energy you don't pay a utility company such as passive solar or even geothermal heating/cooling... not to be confused with geothermal power generation. Larger living rooms... aka great rooms tend to be more popular among more younger contemporary/modern life style... where the traditional living room and dining room were merged into a single larger great room because of lifestyle changes from pre- WWII and post-WWII.
you're trying to compare 2 options by looking at a plan that doesn't illustrate the options. your architect should be helping you study and evaluate this instead of pushing you to decide without anything to help you understand the impacts.
i would say 13-14 ft ceilings for that space would be reasonable for the shape and width, though lower could be acceptable. it depends on a lot of things a plan drawing can't show.
Exactly - the shape of the volume will also be a major factor. The OP's architect needs to do some quick drawings to show the options.
Exactly.
Just have the architect do a Revit model of the two different options. Run the Enscape with VR. Make the rooms all white for now. Get a feeling of the two different ceiling setup. Should not take more than a few hours.
In terms of cost. It sounds like a flat ceiling with attic space versus gable roof with sheetrock covered vaulted ceiling? Both with asphalt shingle roof cover. If that is the case, the cost different will be very small. I would go with the sloped ceiling for better great room space. However, if attic space/ room is desired, flat ceiling is also fine.
I am pretty sure this is one of those typical spec build house. Since this is custom, you could make it non standard height.
Revit is not for options. Also, don't think the op can afford revit options if they are crowd-sourcing options.
Meh, it's easy to do options for a simple project like this. Just save the central model as an option and make the changes. Obvious limitations and possible issues apply.
The plan OP posted looks very "Revit" to me. Probably already built the model with standard components. Just use the "Design Options" feature in the Revit model. Make the Flat ceiling into one Primary model, Set up the vaulted one as an option model.
^Indeed, that corner mullion does say rough revit model.
Or just model the all the ceilings in and hide the ones you don't want to see in the view. Once one is picked just delete the others. Shouldn't take more than 15 minutes to model in 2-3 ceiling volumes.
Totally a Revit model. The entry door has the sill mullion still shown. A typical mistake made by people not experienced in Revit.
FiveStar
After reading thought this thread here are a few thoughts.
1. I don't think you've hired an actual architect. I could be wrong though. Just because someone is allowed to design a single family residence doesn't mean they are an architect (aka licensed).
2. The person you've hired needs to spend an hour doing quick options of the various volumes this could be. Height, shape, exposed structure, exct.
3. You should be speaking with your designer / architect about this and not some randos online. We simply can't know enough about your project from the information you've provided to give an informed response.
4. If you find that you can't continue with your current designer / architects you should be able to terminate the contract. This would be a last resort / nuclear option. Check your contract. You'll need to pay for all of the services up to that point. You will receive all the drawings that have been produced up to that point.
Good luck.
Don't be so harsh. I am pretty sure it is one of the low budget almost like GC spec build style house from that plan. Minimum square footage of desired spaces, maximum efficiency. The whole floor is no more than 1000 SF. Not that much freedom left. It is not the 2-4M modern custom house that requires endless iterations all the way down to the cabinet hinge selections.
Thanks Chad - I'll be taking this up with our architect. Good point about randos online.. just figured an architectural forum might have some feedback worth listening to.
FiveStar - you do realize that you're asking us to do for free what you're paying your 'architect' to do? That's probably why you're not getting the feedback you'd like.
Jay1122 wrote:
"Don't be so harsh. I am pretty sure it is one of the low budget almost like GC spec build style house from that plan."
Nothing about my comment was harsh.
I don't think the OP has hired an actual architect to design the home. They are probably an unlicensed designer or GC doing spec build style homes. Nothing wrong with that.
FiveStar, you are asking us to give you for free what we charge for providing what is part of the professional services we provide. Giving you specific professional advice and expose us to legal liability. Therefore, we wouldn't want to do that for free. We suggest you work with the architect or professional building designer. If the person you have is not an architect or a real professional building designer, and is not willing to provide real professional services, and help you through the study and evaluation of options, you may want to consider terminating services.... though check your contract and if necessary, your lawyer with regards to legal advice about legal matters relating to contracts.
It looks like 12" walls and a typical Passive House-style layout, so I bet this is not a tract home type situation, but the designer/architect is likely into tech and efficiency and maybe not good at convincing clients on aesthetic matters. Or maybe I'm projecting.
I'm generally not a fan of super-high ceilings in homes, even though I do them occasionally. I would lean toward the 10' flat ceiling, maybe with exposed beams to give it some texture.
Why does the width of a door look larger than the width of the dining room table?
Ned; 'Was that, uh, was that toilet always next to the refrigerator?'
Wiggum; 'Uh, Ned, you ever try lugging a toilet up a flight of stairs?
On a side note - those double run stairs are going to be a b*#@h to get a queen size bed or dresser up and down.
Id always go for the shed roof in a big living room... the effect will be greater as you'll see more of the trees. Do 2 stories in another part of the house...
Five Star,
Take your questions to the architect/designer you hired. Stop being a cheap shit getting professional advice for free. Now, go away.
Professional advice…!! hanging around here doesn’t make you one RB
While your sentence in itself is true.
What makes a person an architect depends on the definition used and locations regarding their laws and the "statutory definition" where it exists. However, the word 'professional' can not in or of itself be regulated and only is statutorily defined for defining the word in specific statutory contexts.
In any case, the person was asking questions expecting answers we get paid for providing as those are part of the services we make a living from. If we all gave our advice for free, we'd all be out of business. There's a reason why guilds existed and guilds kept closely guarded the 'secrets' of their trades and charge for the use of their time.
Similarly, architects/building design professionals charge for our time to clients. We are liable to the advice we give. The litigious nature of the built environment and the 'finger-pointing' that ensues tends to drag us into lawsuit cases that costs us even to be appearing at court because the time spent there is time we aren't working on things like procuring projects with clients, and working on billable work. Professional advice relating to our profession is billable work.
Additionally, by giving project-specific advice on projects that a project client is in contract with another architect/designer, *can* make us liable to that project even without an actual contract with any of us. There is that potential legal exposure, especially if the project client acted on that advice.
TLDR....In short, you are correct that merely hanging around here doesn't make one an architect or building design professional. However, we shouldn't give away to people who are not in contract with us, professional services which includes professional advice. Even without an established contractual relationship, giving project-specific advice to a project client of a project, whom we are not in contractual relationship, *CAN* result in liability exposure. This project client is in a contractual relationship with someone, the project client should direct the questions to that person. It is good that we aren't really getting into project specific advice.
I hate to break the bad news, but that stair in the plan means you have a second floor up there.
Kinda a small footprint for a soaring ceiling anyways. Spaces should be proportional. High ceilings make sounds echo and high windows are hard to clean and hard to shade.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.