The typical wall section below studies the relation between curtain walls and the structural system, I don't know how to close this relation to prevent infiltration and to secure tightness of the envelope, My boss thinking of extending the structural beam to meet with the level of the curtain mullion and I'm not sure if it was the best practice in this case.
However, Does add a Thermal/Sound insulation as a backboard can secure the envelope of the building and provide a tightness against infiltration and water lakeage
Why would we do your job? This looks like a badly thought-out detail so how about you look at the top of CW anchor first before considering the infill wall. Also, holy concrete thermal-bridge batman.
I'd love to see your client's reaction when your boss suggests to double the concrete and rebar... plus weight impacts on floors/columns below just to deal with a bad head of CW detail.
This is still a concept, and I didn't ask anyone to do my job I asked just for discussion from professionals, insulation space is taken into account and will be added later to avoid thermal bridging
Dec 20, 21 10:46 am ·
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Non Sequitur
You will have a bigger problem with the head of CW anchor. Start there.
Thank you for your help but could you bear with me and show me what kind of problem you are pointing at, the curtain wall stick system will be extended to be attached to
the beam
It's almost 2022 EA... that wall can be whatever it wants. Why be so judgemental? Maybe there's like 8 exposed parking decks below and this is the top of the unitized system... shess...
Mostafa, I don't have enough information in the detail to know whether it could be window wall or storefront. I can tell you it isn't curtain wall though. In any case, the detail needs some work to make it more accurate to reality.
My first thought as well. And it's 9 meters tall and passes by a floor and you want to do what, 6mm glass/ 12mm air/ 6mm glass? Probably need thicker glass if it is that large. The best thing you can do is pick out a glazing system you want to use and start to understand the head, sill, jamb, and slab attachment details - they will have standards!
it is a 9-meter curtain wall that passes by 2 floors with a normal beam set back and spandrel panel in front of it, the problem is at the top of It because the lower elevation is recessed
Oh, this might be one of those situations where the first floor is actually one floor above the ground floor. Sometimes I forget this is a thing outside the US.
Is this spanning from the ground floor, past a set back first floor, to the second floor? Are you laterally supporting the CW mullions at the first floor?
sorry for the line illustration but I'm outside the office right now but this is the section and yes the first floor is above the ground floor and I'm from Egypt .
If you're not in need of the beam for support, why not just light gauge frame down, insulate, sheath, (climate appropriate) weatherproof, and seal the curtainwall against that? (you could still do that with steel supports too, or if you drag your beam down behind the wall)
How are you supporting the stone cladding? It seems like you'd just integrate with that system rather than adding more concrete. This doesn't seem like a remotely appropriate application for an insulation as air/water barrier. Are you expecting it to bridge a gap and resist damage when the curtainwall moves?
The beam is needed as structure support, Also you have pointed to a valid point, I can do a light gauge frame in front of the beam and insulate it but does it a good practice to secure the envelope or it will be a weak point for air and water leakage, do you have any illustration or details for such a case or case studies to benefit from.
Stone cladding will be supported by an appropriate gauge frame and will be insulated, Also I'm not expecting any gaps when the curtainwall moves, should I? and how to prevent that
Here's a few CEU's and manufacturer links that address various issues in Curtain and Window Wall design, and though they aren't exactly what you need, there are many example conditions shown.
First thought from what I see here is to add steel embed plates to outside face of beam. Weld channels vertical from the embed down to top of curtainwall. Bottom of channel will weld to continuous channel laying horizontal for the head of the curtainwall to anchor to (slip connection may be here if its a single span system). Then infill that steel with cold formed framing and sheathing the outside then add your air water barrier. You can then add your batt insulation as infill to that framed portion and continuous insulation on theoutside if needed. Intent here is to just bring you envelope back to be in plane with curtainwall. Then you can separate the framing needed to support your soffit and fascia finishes. Should simplify that condition greatly.
Dec 28, 21 4:21 pm ·
·
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Curtain Wall Infiltration approach
Greetings,
The typical wall section below studies the relation between curtain walls and the structural system, I don't know how to close this relation to prevent infiltration and to secure tightness of the envelope, My boss thinking of extending the structural beam to meet with the level of the curtain mullion and I'm not sure if it was the best practice in this case.
However, Does add a Thermal/Sound insulation as a backboard can secure the envelope of the building and provide a tightness against infiltration and water lakeage
cw
CW with insulation
Why would we do your job? This looks like a badly thought-out detail so how about you look at the top of CW anchor first before considering the infill wall. Also, holy concrete thermal-bridge batman.
I'd love to see your client's reaction when your boss suggests to double the concrete and rebar... plus weight impacts on floors/columns below just to deal with a bad head of CW detail.
This is still a concept, and I didn't ask anyone to do my job I asked just for discussion from professionals, insulation space is taken into account and will be added later to avoid thermal bridging
You will have a bigger problem with the head of CW anchor. Start there.
Thank you for your help but could you bear with me and show me what kind of problem you are pointing at, the curtain wall stick system will be extended to be attached to the beam
This isn't curtain wall.
It's almost 2022 EA... that wall can be whatever it wants. Why be so judgemental? Maybe there's like 8 exposed parking decks below and this is the top of the unitized system... shess...
Could you elaborate more are you saying it is a window wall or it is a badly thought out detail like the other said
NS, note the elevation tag in the detail.
Mostafa, I don't have enough information in the detail to know whether it could be window wall or storefront. I can tell you it isn't curtain wall though. In any case, the detail needs some work to make it more accurate to reality.
My first thought as well. And it's 9 meters tall and passes by a floor and you want to do what, 6mm glass/ 12mm air/ 6mm glass? Probably need thicker glass if it is that large. The best thing you can do is pick out a glazing system you want to use and start to understand the head, sill, jamb, and slab attachment details - they will have standards!
it is a 9-meter curtain wall that passes by 2 floors with a normal beam set back and spandrel panel in front of it, the problem is at the top of It because the lower elevation is recessed
where are your wind-girts?
Oh, this might be one of those situations where the first floor is actually one floor above the ground floor. Sometimes I forget this is a thing outside the US.
Is this spanning from the ground floor, past a set back first floor, to the second floor? Are you laterally supporting the CW mullions at the first floor?
sorry for the line illustration but I'm outside the office right now but this is the section and yes the first floor is above the ground floor and I'm from Egypt .
If you're not in need of the beam for support, why not just light gauge frame down, insulate, sheath, (climate appropriate) weatherproof, and seal the curtainwall against that? (you could still do that with steel supports too, or if you drag your beam down behind the wall)
How are you supporting the stone cladding? It seems like you'd just integrate with that system rather than adding more concrete. This doesn't seem like a remotely appropriate application for an insulation as air/water barrier. Are you expecting it to bridge a gap and resist damage when the curtainwall moves?
The beam is needed as structure support, Also you have pointed to a valid point, I can do a light gauge frame in front of the beam and insulate it but does it a good practice to secure the envelope or it will be a weak point for air and water leakage, do you have any illustration or details for such a case or case studies to benefit from.
Stone cladding will be supported by an appropriate gauge frame and will be insulated, Also I'm not expecting any gaps when the curtainwall moves, should I? and how to prevent that
Here's a few CEU's and manufacturer links that address various issues in Curtain and Window Wall design, and though they aren't exactly what you need, there are many example conditions shown.
https://www.hanleywooduniversi...
https://www.payette.com/resear...
https://continuingeducation.bn...
https://www.kawneer.com/kawnee...
https://www.alumil.com/egypt/s...
http://www.alicoegypt.com/prod...
Realy i appreciate you help, you are awsome
Hanleywooduniversity is amazing again thank you, you have helped me rather than criticizing
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