Do you think there is valid science behind personality typing, such as Myers-Briggs or Enneagram? I know some people feel strongly that it's no more legitimate than astrology, but I also know people who believe in astrology (and I have to say that I fit the Virgo mold pretty well).
I've been interested in Myers-Briggs testing since I learned about it in my early 20s. I have found it very useful for trying to understand myself as well as others. I always test as INTP but lately I've been reading more about it and think I might be an ENTP with social anxiety, or possibly ISTP or ESTP.
Recently I've been learning about Enneagram, another way to categorize personalities. I think I'm a 5 and according to them I should strive to become an 8.
What is your type? What resources have you studied to learn about it? If you don't believe in any personality typing, can you explain why not?
A more useful analysis of personality types is based on honesty. For example, 1 in 6 will lie without compunction if they can benefit from it.
The next step up is people who lie - but not to their maximum benefit, as if leaving something on the table makes them more honourable. "I'm a good person because I didn't take as much as I could have."
On the other end are people who are "honest to a fault" (telling the truth even at one's own expense).
The former take advantage of everyone and especially the latter, while the latter are easy marks because they think everyone else is like them. As do the consumate liars, who no doubt justiy their behavior as defensive.
I decided long ago that it's just not worth the effort to lie, short of telling my wife she looks fat in her jeans. It does bite me sometimes, but I do it less for moral reasons and more for practical reasons--I can't keep track of lies, but I can deal with the fallout of bad news.
In my High School psychology class we took a 3 day, roughly 300 question test. I ended up coming up as an INTJ if I remember correctly, which was only about 2% of the population.
As I've gotten older I think that i've become equal parts ENTJ. When I was younger I was extremely comfortable talking to people whom I knew but the social (bar) environment of college & a fair bit of travel has made me far more comfortable being extroverted with strangers.
As for whether I believe in them, I'd say yes & no.
I think Myers Briggs does a better job than the enneagrams & I do think that much of the world can be categorized into a handful of "types". But I also think people are complicated in the duality between the people they present to the outside world & the person they are when no one is watching. Or the person they are socially vs professionally.
Either way Myers Briggs tells me that I "tend to overlook the contributions of others and may neglect to consider the needs of the people". Apparently I'm just no longer as "cold". Sounds fair, I still don't care I just am really good in social settings now.
Haha, yeah they're good at that. I agree about the internal vs. external issue. It also doesn't help that what THEY mean by terms such as extraverted vs introverted and perceiving vs. judging are not the same pejorative definitions we use in regular conversation.
Apr 26, 21 4:57 pm ·
·
RJ87
On their website, they even state:
"Do not confuse Judging with judgmental, in its negative sense about people and events. They are not related."
Almost like they know no one likes to be called judgmental.
I'm an Enneagram 1 and an Upholder in Four Tendencies speak. (I promise I'm more fun than that makes me sound.) I believe it to a certain extent. Am I going to base my life choices off a test? Mostly no. I put more stock into things like the Four Tendencies than the Enneagram because it only speaks to one portion of someone's personality (in this case how an individual responds to outer and inner expectation) than trying to capture a full picture of their personality with one test.
I don't know about the four tendencies but will look into it. Any recommended resources?
Apr 27, 21 11:21 am ·
·
thatsthat
It is from Gretchen Rubins. She wrote a book by the same name. She has a free online quiz that can help you determine your type.
In the book, she elaborates on each type and how different types interact. By knowing more about how you respond to expectations, you can put in place systems to help you achieve what you want. It has helped me communicate better at work with people who understand expectation differently.
I think there's some validity to all of these (including astrology!) but also I think it's important to take them all with various grains of salt.
One thing that does really interest me about meyers-briggs et al (& also about astrology), is how they become part of the story we tell ourselves about ourselves, and how we project that identity into our public lives. That knowledge can be a useful way to self-examine and self-correct, it can also be a crutch or an excuse. It can also be a blindfold. In many ways the way we answer the personality test can, if we're too self-conscious about the answer, give a result that says more about who we think we are (who we think we want to be) than who we are.
What makes people tick is something that I've always found really interesting, and - for better or worse - something I feel I've always had a pretty good ability to sniff out. In that way, I think how much stock one puts in their MBTI type tells me as much about them as the type itself does. Similarly, how seriously one takes astrology is as much an indicator of their personality as their astrological sign.
Anyway I always get "ENTJ" when I take the test & I'm a Capricorn. To which I'm sure some people would say "Of course a Capricorn would think this way!" which is very funny but maybe not entirely wrong!
validity in astrology? um.... nope. not a chance. But it's fun in the same way as celeb gossip rags are fun for some. It's just popular tooth fairy science.
but that's totally what a Ophiuchus would say tho... because that's me apparently.
Non - I think horoscopes are bullshit but I do believe that birth month does play a role (however minimal) in development, which later manifests in character / personality. Of course, this only works for people growing up in northern areas where light & climate vary with the seasons (and maybe reverses for southern hemisphere children?) but I still think there's something to it.
Apr 26, 21 8:48 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
^birth month, seasonal variances, and development influences... plausible and not particularly crazy. birth month and personality linked to arbitrary patterns of distant points of light = batshit territory.
Good points, Tduds--in the MBTI groups I'm in (I'm a Facebook group junkie) a lot of people seem constrained by their type. I prefer to see MB type as my natural tendency and it helps me see where I have to expend more effort than someone else. Our society rewards the opposite of my type, so I try to act more like that person instead of doubling down on my natural tendencies. I think that's how it's supposed to work, not as an excuse to be a lazy asshole.
Regarding astrology, that's an interesting point--not unlike the idea that Malcolm Gladwell has written about, that birth dates can have a significant effect--for example, most professional sports players are born in certain months, which means they are bigger or more advanced than their peers at a young age, so they get more opportunities to play and practice, and become better at their game. That doesn't mean that others can't also succeed, it just gives them a leg up.
I know a lot of Virgos and it is uncanny how many of us fit the mold. My wife is a Taurus and fully fits that mold, and there is not a lot of overlap between the two. I don't believe that distant planets can influence who we are, but based on observation I also think there is something there.
My wife & I are both Capricorns and it's kind of a running half-joke that we seem to surround ourselves with other Capricorns. Winter births, good folk.
I do notice that I often get a little crazier than normal around the full moon; it could be chalked up to poor sleep due to the bright moon, but my nurse relatives swear that hospitals fill up every month with mental health issues around the full moon.
Apr 27, 21 2:55 pm ·
·
Non Sequitur
WG, correlation is not causation. The « moon effects » have been thoroughly explored and rejected... unless you’re already primed. 8-)
US society highly rewards extraverts, to the point that if you're an introvert, if you want to get ahead you need to learn how to act like an extravert. At least that's how I see it.
what personality type indicates "asshole"? that's probably the most salient characteristic for architects, more than intro/extroversion.
i had to take a personality type test for my current job. i had to take it twice - because the first time my answers didn't clearly indicate a personality type. hr informed me i gave inconsistent responses to similar statements and needed to target my answers better, even if both answers seemed ok to me.
i am a libra, obviously.
Apr 27, 21 1:13 am ·
·
Wood Guy
My likely type, INTP, is often considered the assholiest of types. But others are in the running as well. INTPs tend to be engineers, rarely (but occasionally) architects. Architects are often xNFJ--intuitive, people-oriented, and organized. Next most common is probably xNTJ--likely more technically-oriented than Fs, and likely somewhat less artistic.
At a past job, everyone in the company took a MBTI test before a company retreat. This particular version gave a name for each of the 16 Types. "Architect" was one of them. Hilariously only one of the ~25 architects in the office fit into that Type.
That is funny! I think of INTJ as Howard Roark-style architects. The most talented designers and architects I know are Fs, not Ts, which is annoying because I'm definitely a T. I've been looking mostly at the 16 Personalities site for MBTI for the past couple of years; they do things slightly differently, and added a "turbulent" vs "assertive" sub-type.
Apr 27, 21 2:08 pm ·
·
joseffischer
Part of this is that there are only so many INTJs total
I did a round of interviewing earlier this year and there are games you play and AI figures out who you are apparently. The insights were actually spot on and I actually used some of the feedback given to me by our machine overlords to strengthen interactions at work.
Apr 27, 21 12:40 pm ·
·
citizen
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Apr 27, 21 4:39 pm ·
·
Wood Guy
I just read elsewhere that MBTI describes how you act, and Enneagram describes how you think. I don't know enough about either to confirm or deny, but it sounds reasonable. What did you learn about yourself, if you don't mind sharing?
We did these as part of our professional practice module. I've always got INFJ but not sure how accurate they are. Nonetheless they are interesting to look at and investigate how different types integrate or compliment each other in a working environment.
Personality types
Do you think there is valid science behind personality typing, such as Myers-Briggs or Enneagram? I know some people feel strongly that it's no more legitimate than astrology, but I also know people who believe in astrology (and I have to say that I fit the Virgo mold pretty well).
I've been interested in Myers-Briggs testing since I learned about it in my early 20s. I have found it very useful for trying to understand myself as well as others. I always test as INTP but lately I've been reading more about it and think I might be an ENTP with social anxiety, or possibly ISTP or ESTP.
Recently I've been learning about Enneagram, another way to categorize personalities. I think I'm a 5 and according to them I should strive to become an 8.
What is your type? What resources have you studied to learn about it? If you don't believe in any personality typing, can you explain why not?
A more useful analysis of personality types is based on honesty. For example, 1 in 6 will lie without compunction if they can benefit from it.
The next step up is people who lie - but not to their maximum benefit, as if leaving something on the table makes them more honourable. "I'm a good person because I didn't take as much as I could have."
On the other end are people who are "honest to a fault" (telling the truth even at one's own expense).
The former take advantage of everyone and especially the latter, while the latter are easy marks because they think everyone else is like them. As do the consumate liars, who no doubt justiy their behavior as defensive.
The Jaffe Liar's Scale? Interesting thought!
I decided long ago that it's just not worth the effort to lie, short of telling my wife she looks fat in her jeans. It does bite me sometimes, but I do it less for moral reasons and more for practical reasons--I can't keep track of lies, but I can deal with the fallout of bad news.
In my High School psychology class we took a 3 day, roughly 300 question test. I ended up coming up as an INTJ if I remember correctly, which was only about 2% of the population.
As I've gotten older I think that i've become equal parts ENTJ. When I was younger I was extremely comfortable talking to people whom I knew but the social (bar) environment of college & a fair bit of travel has made me far more comfortable being extroverted with strangers.
As for whether I believe in them, I'd say yes & no.
I think Myers Briggs does a better job than the enneagrams & I do think that much of the world can be categorized into a handful of "types". But I also think people are complicated in the duality between the people they present to the outside world & the person they are when no one is watching. Or the person they are socially vs professionally.
Either way Myers Briggs tells me that I "tend to overlook the contributions of others and may neglect to consider the needs of the people". Apparently I'm just no longer as "cold". Sounds fair, I still don't care I just am really good in social settings now.
Haha, yeah they're good at that. I agree about the internal vs. external issue. It also doesn't help that what THEY mean by terms such as extraverted vs introverted and perceiving vs. judging are not the same pejorative definitions we use in regular conversation.
On their website, they even state:
"Do not confuse Judging with judgmental, in its negative sense about people and events. They are not related."
Almost like they know no one likes to be called judgmental.
We had to take the MMPI test in first year of college, they never gave us the results though. And I don't care.
I'm an Enneagram 1 and an Upholder in Four Tendencies speak. (I promise I'm more fun than that makes me sound.) I believe it to a certain extent. Am I going to base my life choices off a test? Mostly no. I put more stock into things like the Four Tendencies than the Enneagram because it only speaks to one portion of someone's personality (in this case how an individual responds to outer and inner expectation) than trying to capture a full picture of their personality with one test.
I don't know about the four tendencies but will look into it. Any recommended resources?
It is from Gretchen Rubins. She wrote a book by the same name. She has a free online quiz that can help you determine your type. In the book, she elaborates on each type and how different types interact. By knowing more about how you respond to expectations, you can put in place systems to help you achieve what you want. It has helped me communicate better at work with people who understand expectation differently.
I think there's some validity to all of these (including astrology!) but also I think it's important to take them all with various grains of salt.
One thing that does really interest me about meyers-briggs et al (& also about astrology), is how they become part of the story we tell ourselves about ourselves, and how we project that identity into our public lives. That knowledge can be a useful way to self-examine and self-correct, it can also be a crutch or an excuse. It can also be a blindfold. In many ways the way we answer the personality test can, if we're too self-conscious about the answer, give a result that says more about who we think we are (who we think we want to be) than who we are.
What makes people tick is something that I've always found really interesting, and - for better or worse - something I feel I've always had a pretty good ability to sniff out. In that way, I think how much stock one puts in their MBTI type tells me as much about them as the type itself does. Similarly, how seriously one takes astrology is as much an indicator of their personality as their astrological sign.
Anyway I always get "ENTJ" when I take the test & I'm a Capricorn. To which I'm sure some people would say "Of course a Capricorn would think this way!" which is very funny but maybe not entirely wrong!
I can get too caught up in the phrasing of the questions. Which tells me something about me. You're right.
validity in astrology? um.... nope. not a chance. But it's fun in the same way as celeb gossip rags are fun for some. It's just popular tooth fairy science.
but that's totally what a Ophiuchus would say tho... because that's me apparently.
to: T. Duds
date: 4/26/21
ref: Personality tests
Delivering the grain of salt you ordered:
Non - I think horoscopes are bullshit but I do believe that birth month does play a role (however minimal) in development, which later manifests in character / personality. Of course, this only works for people growing up in northern areas where light & climate vary with the seasons (and maybe reverses for southern hemisphere children?) but I still think there's something to it.
^birth month, seasonal variances, and development influences... plausible and not particularly crazy. birth month and personality linked to arbitrary patterns of distant points of light = batshit territory.
For sure. They really mixed up the correlation / causation there, but a lot of ancient lore is just misplaced pattern recognition.
i don't understand why people don't believe in astrology. it's far more accurate than fox news.
You guys are really messing with the sleazy pickup-line industry here.
must be the super moon I keep reading about. I certainly feel a stronger gravitational pull tonight.
Good points, Tduds--in the MBTI groups I'm in (I'm a Facebook group junkie) a lot of people seem constrained by their type. I prefer to see MB type as my natural tendency and it helps me see where I have to expend more effort than someone else. Our society rewards the opposite of my type, so I try to act more like that person instead of doubling down on my natural tendencies. I think that's how it's supposed to work, not as an excuse to be a lazy asshole.
Regarding astrology, that's an interesting point--not unlike the idea that Malcolm Gladwell has written about, that birth dates can have a significant effect--for example, most professional sports players are born in certain months, which means they are bigger or more advanced than their peers at a young age, so they get more opportunities to play and practice, and become better at their game. That doesn't mean that others can't also succeed, it just gives them a leg up.
I know a lot of Virgos and it is uncanny how many of us fit the mold. My wife is a Taurus and fully fits that mold, and there is not a lot of overlap between the two. I don't believe that distant planets can influence who we are, but based on observation I also think there is something there.
My wife & I are both Capricorns and it's kind of a running half-joke that we seem to surround ourselves with other Capricorns. Winter births, good folk.
I identify as a capricorn, but only on thursdays.
I do notice that I often get a little crazier than normal around the full moon; it could be chalked up to poor sleep due to the bright moon, but my nurse relatives swear that hospitals fill up every month with mental health issues around the full moon.
WG, correlation is not causation. The « moon effects » have been thoroughly explored and rejected... unless you’re already primed. 8-)
Just tell that to the people who fill up the hospital every month!
At one firm I worked at, we actually had to fill out questionnaires and attend a meeting on personality types. most of the firm is extraverts.
US society highly rewards extraverts, to the point that if you're an introvert, if you want to get ahead you need to learn how to act like an extravert. At least that's how I see it.
what personality type indicates "asshole"? that's probably the most salient characteristic for architects, more than intro/extroversion.
i had to take a personality type test for my current job. i had to take it twice - because the first time my answers didn't clearly indicate a personality type. hr informed me i gave inconsistent responses to similar statements and needed to target my answers better, even if both answers seemed ok to me.
i am a libra, obviously.
My likely type, INTP, is often considered the assholiest of types. But others are in the running as well. INTPs tend to be engineers, rarely (but occasionally) architects. Architects are often xNFJ--intuitive, people-oriented, and organized. Next most common is probably xNTJ--likely more technically-oriented than Fs, and likely somewhat less artistic.
When you get right down to it there are only two types of people, assholes and everyone else.
At a past job, everyone in the company took a MBTI test before a company retreat. This particular version gave a name for each of the 16 Types. "Architect" was one of them. Hilariously only one of the ~25 architects in the office fit into that Type.
edit: It's INTJ https://www.16personalities.co...
That is funny! I think of INTJ as Howard Roark-style architects. The most talented designers and architects I know are Fs, not Ts, which is annoying because I'm definitely a T. I've been looking mostly at the 16 Personalities site for MBTI for the past couple of years; they do things slightly differently, and added a "turbulent" vs "assertive" sub-type.
Part of this is that there are only so many INTJs total
here's a breakdown https://www.careerplanner.com/...
Notice how many S's make the top half of the list as an example, 73.4%... didn't do the math, but I vs E is way more 50/50.
Interestingly (to me) J's are at the top and bottom respectively... you're either a very common type of J or a very uncommon type.
It takes a certain amount of unreasonableness to be a successful architect. And this can lead to a certain degree of "nastiness" with people.
I did a round of interviewing earlier this year and there are games you play and AI figures out who you are apparently. The insights were actually spot on and I actually used some of the feedback given to me by our machine overlords to strengthen interactions at work.
.
I just read elsewhere that MBTI describes how you act, and Enneagram describes how you think. I don't know enough about either to confirm or deny, but it sounds reasonable. What did you learn about yourself, if you don't mind sharing?
We did these as part of our professional practice module. I've always got INFJ but not sure how accurate they are. Nonetheless they are interesting to look at and investigate how different types integrate or compliment each other in a working environment.
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