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What architects are certainly followers of Herzog and de Meuron's principles?

piero1910

I am only wondering what contemporary architects, I mean much younger generation, have worked and followed their ideas into their work as I have read that many architects have worked with Rem Koolhaas and created their own firms, such as Bjarke Ingles or Winy Maas (https://www.archdaily.com/7698...). Therefore, I wonder whether similar cases have occurred with Herzog and de Meuron's practice because I am not very familiar with architects who have worked with them and pursued their principles and concepts in architecture. 

 
Sep 18, 20 10:27 am
monosierra

HdeM doesn't do process diagrams or distinctive looks as much as OMA and BIG and the other acronyms - or even student favorite, Olgiati. While HdeM has developed a catalogue of parts for their more commercial project, their offshoots tend to follow more their design process than try to replicate a certain look. Material investigation is one of the best things that HdeM does. Check out Harry Gugger who was a key partner at HdeM. I think HHF also has some connections to HdeM. Look up Basel-area architects - a lot of them had experience working at HdeM.

Sep 18, 20 11:02 am  · 
4  · 
piero1910

Thanks for your response. It really clarifies a lot of what I'm looking for. Firstly, I didn't fully understand your comment about Valerio Olgiati, what do you exactly mean by that? I have noticed what you described that HdeM is not a firm such as OMA or BIG by the way of how their design process works. Although they might have some designs which are mostly based on a sculptural design principle, but not replicating a look as you mentioned. On the other hand, I am highly intrigued by this material investigation. Therefore I posted the question, because I am very interested into knowing what other architects or firms, without mattering on their place of origin or office location, intent on doing a similar approach. I checked out the architects whom you have mentioned above, and I knew the work of the second one sort of well, but not the first one. However, I have still some doubts because I have seen a diagram by Alejandro Zaera-Polo for El Croquis which classified architecture firms by their ideas or their main design principles.
https://www.archdaily.com/801641/architectures-political-compass-a-taxonomy-of-emerging-architecture-in-one-diagram/5853c564e58ecebf57000221-architectures-political-compass-a-taxonomy-of-emerging-architecture-in-one-diagram-photo

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monosierra

HdeM, given its sheer size nowadays, has indeed resorted to more "diagrammatic" designs for certain projects for both interior and exterior work. Stacked boxes, extravagant spiral stairs, criss crossing blocks, bars on stilts etc. Their best work remains on the smaller or medium scale where material and detailing are still open to new ideas. AZP's diagram is one way to track influences but its good to have your own criteria. How about writings such as Treacherous Transparency? Has HdeM's material work lead to new uses replicated elsewhere? What about their students at ETH and the GSD? Are projects like Prada Aoyama still used as technical case studies in schools and in practice? Which stage of HdeM's career is more influential - the earlier work with silkscreens and exquisite details or the more recent megaprojects? What of their process - all the hundreds of models produced for a single design? How do they run their office? A book, How Real Estate Developers Think, claims that the developer behind 111 Lincoln Rd was the main brains behind that building's best ideas - pushing HdeM to come up with the design that is so acclaimed.

Kwong Von Glinow of Chicago is a young practice that has worked in HdeM before and is partly influenced by what they learned there.

Olgiaiti is one of the most readily identifiable architects and quite a few students mimic his style - monumental concrete forms with traingle/oval columns and cutouts are a dead giveaway. Check out the work of Salahars for instance, a young practice that admires VO's designs.

2  · 
piero1910

Thanks once again for your comments and recommendations. They are very helpful and fascinating. The questions fabricated by you are pretty intriguing in how to study and perceive HdM's work by oneself's view. Also, I will check out those architects whom you have mentioned at the end. I also would like to add that an architecture firm, which assimilates into HdM ideas, might be Christ and Gantenbein for what I observed in their work so far. I don't know whether you are familiar with them. But, let me know what you think about it.

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monosierra

Indeed - I actually associate C+G (Another big influence on their students in North America) with the more 'austere' Swiss architects whose use raw-looking materials, monumental form, and ornaments with aplomb. Olgiati and Kerez are other names in this tradition though they are a generation older than C+G. I guess Karamuk Kuo, their colleagues at the GSD, makes work that looks similar at least. Aires Mateus and Barozzi Veiga in Portugal are Iberian brethrens to C+G? I have zero idea what their design philosophies are though. HdeM has always struck me as being somewhat outside this austere Swiss tradition. Yes, they've done concrete blocks but the variety of their material pallete is very unique among the influential architects of the past half century. I remember Herzog saying that they were as influenced by artists as they were by other architects. Maybe looking into who taught and inspired HdeM would be a way to see how they in turn influenced others. Their work with Ai Weiwei in architecture and installation design are pretty rad.

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piero1910

Yes, I totally agree with your viewpoints regarding those swiss architecture firms, but I have seen some of the work byChrist and Gantenbein and they sometimes implement uncommon materials into their work. As for example in this tower located in Basel (https://www.christgantenbein.com/download/dataset/project/ya86w9fq.jpg/1079-I006--High-Rise-on-the-Railtrack--%C2%A9Christian%20Kahl--Christ-Gantenbein.jpg) Furthermore, what do you think that Brandlhuber would enter into? Because he is also an architect who has been mostly influenced by artists for what I have read. He tend to be playful with materials as well, but very differently in my opinion. I think his architecture is also very interesting without a doubt. I am asking about new names because I'm more interested into learning about newer generations of architects than HdM and Koolhaas' generation. That's why I wonder if any of those names will certainly supplant those other names in architecture which lately have extremely become commercialized. I would like to say that I am more interested into what it is coming up than what it has already happened.

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piero1910

Sorry to bother. But, I want to ask what your opinion on the new generation of Belgian Architects is, such as OFFICE, 514NE, De Vylder Vinck Taillieu, GAFPA, etc.

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monosierra

I love the Belgians. Their work has a great sense of humor and the flat graphics has been a mainstay in student Pinterests. KGVDS is probably the most internationally known of the group but my favorite is DVVT. I don't find as much humor or fun in most of the more austere Swiss designers, though Brandlhuber has quirky moments. HdeM used to play with scale, attachment details, material juxtapositions and ornament in their smaller projects - there is a young designer whose name I forgot but who has enjoyed an unique collaborative experience with HdeM. She was featured on Archdaily once but the name escapes me - the project they worked on had a fun gutter detail. If you're interested in up and coming designers, look up student work, option studio instructors, lecture series invitees, open competition winners or those young architect prizes. I'm always wary of trying to classify designers into certain lineages because there's a lot of assumptions on influences that one might not have a complete picture of. As architects mature and find their own voice, they gradually assume their own unique style anyway.

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randomised

De Vylder Vinck Taillieu are brilliant and I believe are authentic in how their architecture and representation of the architecture come across, more no-nonsense in a way. With the other Belgians, it sometimes feels to me as a trick, a style of representation rather than anything spatial. But maybe that’s just because it is a little too close home for me, have attended lectures by some of them and had to not hire some for a project after they tanked their presentation...

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piero1910

I do love the Belgians as well. I think they have some great work as DVVT. I also like OFFICE because their work is very conceptual and their representation is very unique in comparison to others. I can comprehend what you mean that the swiss aren't as playful anymore as they used to, like HdM were. I just mentioned Brandlhuber because he might be one of the most well-known current German architects. I am not pretty familiar with their practices nowadays which produce interesting projects. So it would be nice if you could recommend some from that country as well. I understand what you mean with the other Belgian firms, but I think they still produce some nice work in comparison to other countries. I have also been attracted by some British firms, such Carmody Groarke and 6a architects. Both have are nice uniqueness in their work. Moreover, what current firms(no matter the country) would you say that currently draw your attention to?

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monosierra

Funny, I thought Brandlhuber was Swiss. Germany has always been a black hole to me. Outside Barkow-Leibinger and J Mayer ... Its probably my ignorance for but I cannot name any contemporary German architects with a global influence. Ole Scheeren is more OMA than "German". There are notable German firms that operate internationally but they are more like SOM/KPF than avant garde designers. The Portuguese and Spaniards, the Scandinavians, the French, even Belgian and of course the Dutch all have their ecosystems of older starchitects and younger practitioners but Germany - I have no idea. A German student once told me that his curriculum is very technical and they don't pay much attention to stylistic fads and graphic stuff (Which sounds like a terrific way to learn actually). That school in Stuttgart does remarkable research into materials - Is Achim Menges German?

As for the Brits, Caruso St.John (Older but still cool) and Assembly for their business model and work process. Surely ZHA alumni are setting up shop as well? I follow Heneghan Peng of Ireland just because they had a remarkable start to their career - winning the Grand Egyptian Museum competition almost straight out of school.

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piero1910

Yeah I can understand why you had that misconception on Brandlhuber because there not many contemporary well-known German architects which I find to be weird because they have one of the cities with the biggest current artsy scenes in the world, I'm referring to Berlin, and probably Leipzig which is rising in that area. Anyhow, I think there are some good German firms as the one you have mentioned, but also such as Staab Architekten, or Kuehn Malvezzi. Moreover, some interesting firms have their offices in Berlin, as Chipperfield, Francis Kere and even HdM. Well, a lot of most important Chipperfield work is located in Berlin, and for Kere, it is harder to give an opinion on it because most of his work is in Africa. I am not sure whether he has ever designed anything in Germany. However, I completely feel like you regarding German architects. Possibly, there are more than we know, but I haven't done a good research on it yet. You mentioned the Dutch as having a good ecosystem of older stararchitects(whom I think I know), though I am not very familiar with that younger generation of practitioners there.

I do like a lot the work of those two British firm which you mentioned, especially Assemble for what you have said. It is a pretty fascinating architecture firm because of how they materialize their work. I'm familiar with those Irish architects too. I think Ireland is also rising in their architecture scene lately. There are many nice firms to name...

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piero1910

Oops I forgot to mention another German firm which have some interesting work. Are you familiar with the German firm AMUNT? Also, I have seen the work done by university ot Stuttgart and it is pretty fascinating what they are doing

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Jay1122

The few successful ones worked for other successful ones gets listed and talked about. Mean while the endless exploited hard working non-successful ones are left in the shadow continue to serve as tools. I bet a lot of those works are actually done almost entirely by the project managers/ lead designers while the big name boss takes credit. The big boss's involvement may be just to give approval on the design directions and sketches because he is too busy. Honestly, design principle and concept does not matter much in relation to the success of architectural business. When I was a student, I used to believe strong design concepts and skills will get you good projects. Now I realized, success brings more success. Without real recognized built project and construction experience, no client will want you, no matter how "cool" or in trend your design concept is. How to get that first big project opportunity is always the wonder to me. Thays why a ton of small firms with those Rendered cool competition project will remain unbuilt. It is not because their design sucks or lack of skill, it is just purely business. Clients will always go to those mega size firms that has a long track record of doing such scale project. I doubt the design played much role, it is all about who has the better marketing and PR team.

Anyway, time to get back to working on the endless egress stair details and let you noble men discuss the future of architecture design development.


Sep 18, 20 12:45 pm  · 
1  · 
Bench

You seem like a very unhappy person.

4  · 
Jay1122

What project are you working on that makes you so happy? I would not even dream to work on Herzog de Meuron stuff. I would be happy with boring LEED box.

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randomised

One of Gigon/Guyer worked there (and the other one at OMA)...OMA/Koolhaas and HdeM were actually considering merging offices at one point,  was either in the Content book or in some documentary I’ve seen, not sure it might have been something with a helicopter ride or whatever, but it obviously never happened. 


But to get back, you don’t always have to have worked in a certain office to be inspired by their way of working or their architecture. I remember the El Croquis issues of HdeM (or SANAA for example) were always gone from the library at uni, they’ve inspired numerous architects that have never worked there, even though you obviously can’t know about their working process in detail from a book or watching YouTube lectures etc.

Sep 18, 20 2:17 pm  · 
1  · 
monosierra

This documentary which follows HdeM and OMA as they collaorate on a hotel in Manhattan is quite a view: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGbSffInYjc

2  · 
lower.case.yao

Really nice doc. I think I saw Hilary Sample in there Bi

1  · 
SneakyPete

I tried to follow their principals once but the police told me to leave the school grounds.

Sep 19, 20 5:43 pm  · 
1  · 
piero1910

Sorry, I just have a last question. What Dutch contemporary architecture firms are worth paying attention to? I mean the generation after the super Dutch and Rem Koolhaas. I found this in a magazine. https://au-magazine.com/shop/a... 


So I thought that it was interesting to know more about the newer generation of architects(I mean after OMA and MVRDV) from the Netherlands. I am much more familiar with the one from Belgium because I think they tend to be more recognized. 

Sep 24, 20 10:25 pm  · 
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randomised

Some good ones in that a+u there, but the current developments in the Netherlands in my opinion actually move away from architecture as landscape and urbanism become more relevant/urgent, it is not about the brilliantly designed architectural object but strategies for planning, adaptation, reuse, energy transition, etc. Architecture is not able to deal with these very successfully in my opinion, and retreats towards the more intimate and analogue, material side of things, nice and all but totally irrelevant in the big scope of things. The current Dutch yearbook definitely highlights some good projects, obviously plenty of overlap with the magazine: https://www.naibooksellers.nl/architecture-in-the-netherlands-yearbook-2019-2020-architectuur-in-nederland-jaarboek-2019-2020.html, here the previous year: https://www.naibooksellers.nl/architecture-in-the-netherlands-yearbook-2018-2019-architectuur-in-nederland-jaarboek-2018-2019.html My personal (recent) favourite has been RAAAF...

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piero1910

Thanks for your response. Although I'm sort of confused whether your opinion is positive or negative about the current status of Dutch architecture. I checked out all the links which you have sent and there are many names in there. I also looked for the architecture firm RAAAF whose work is mainly experimental and associated with the landscape for what I noticed. After seeing that a+u magazine. This new Dutch architecture actually drew my attention to what we were used to expect from previous generations of Dutch architects. I'm interested into getting to know what firms stand out more than others. Thanks

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randomised

It's not necessarily about positive or negative, it is more about relevance (to me at least). I especially like RAAAF for their experimental approach and that they don't do "buildings". I just think that there are more pressing issues in this day and age than what most architects (in general and in the Netherlands) are able to work on. You probably know this one ‘ATLAS of emerging practices: being an architect in the 21st century’ for Europe, which also highlights some emerging Dutch offices such as krft, CIVIC or FABRICations...Another book, about post-(economic) crisis architecture in the Netherlands: Reactivate! Innovators of Dutch Architecture, although this is from 2012/3, it features some of those same offices already, when they just started.

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piero1910

Thanks a lot for the information. It is very helpful and fascinating. Yes, I was aware of the first book, but I have not read it yet. But, it names many emerging firms from every European country which it is basically what I'm searching for. The second one, I will take a closer look at it.

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randomised

Could easily make a new Atlas with all the offices in this thread

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piero1910

I just have another question. Do you know if there's a magazine like the first one only about Dutch contemporary architecture, but of German contemporary architecture or even Austrian? I mean more about contemporary German speaking firms, excluding Switzerland because Switzerland is really well covered in comparison to the other two German speaking countries, or you are able to name some interesting firms which you might know Thanks.

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piero1910

Please disregard my last question. I just have another question regarding Dutch firms or architecture again. I'm quite curious to know if Netherlands have firms which try to conceptualize similar ideas to the architects, such as Louis Kahn, Valerio Olgiati or even Zumthor. I mean architects who execute more architecture based on the light and spaces. I am not familiar with many Dutch architects and I have looked at all the links which you have suggested me to look at. But, I haven't found anything likewise. Thanks

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randomised

Those are not topics often explored here, at least not to that level of quality, to my knowledge...There are some offices like perhaps Winhov or Korth Thielens or Tony Fretten (that used to have a local office here) that are maybe exploring those themes a little bit.

1  · 
piero1910

I see. Thanks for your respons

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piero1910

I see. Thanks for your response. I knew one of the firms which you named. But, I wasn't familiar with the second one. Even though I saw that they really have nice work. Regarding Tony Fretton, he is a British architect. So he is basically doing what Chipperfield does in Germany, right? I only thought that more Dutch architects tried to explore those themes in their architecture. Are there any Dutch architects who are mostly focused on material fundamentals?

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piero1910

Hello randomised. Sorry to bother again. I have been researching the work of the Dutch architects and I found the job of Anne Holtrop to be very intriguing. Are there any other Dutch architects in that category? I mean other who try to do similar things to what he does!!! Thanks.

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piero1910

To anyone who can help me out hahaha. I am wondering whether there are architects in the Netherlands, whose work might be as interesting as the one by Anne Holtrop. I don't mean that they have to design similarly, but I would like to know if one can find other architects in the Netherlands with those architectural ideas and qualities. Thanks.

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piero1910

Thanks a lot for the information. It is very helpful and fascinating. Yes, I was aware of the first book, but I have not read it yet. But, it names many emerging firms from every European country which it is basically what I'm searching for. The second one, I will take a closer look at it.

Sep 25, 20 9:04 am  · 
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