and to think I squeezed in this post between writing claims. Imagine if I'd taken my time...

Next time, pop up book

And yet it's still better than a lot of what I see by architects (which they've hired, btw). I know you've got a reputation to keep up, but this level of effort is far beyond what most homeowners bring to this site. Having said that, there's all sorts of red flags here...

^look at the OP’s history for more context. His/her effort is staggering, but the focus ignored so many design fundamentals.

As stated I do have an architect and he's been giving me some minor feedback so far. He's open to working with me given my want for extreme involvement but he's busy with other projects currently. All in all I dont care much if the layout changes but having this let's me show him a lot of what I'm trying to accomplish and some of the peculiarities I'm trying based on my experience inspecting losses. I'm sure you all know the famous FLW quote but I'm trying to bring some adjuster/contractor experience into the equation so that the chair doesn't need to be moved.

Bowling - if you cared to point out a few I'd appreciate it, thanks for the kind words as well.

Exposed cold water pipes condense water on the outside and should be wrapped with insulation if you don't want constant dripping when the indoor RH is above about 50%.

Absolutely, I joke more than anything. There were definitely some points I got a little heated but overall I've learned a lot here and appreciate the feedback. Adjusting is far different from actuarial work, I inspect and write repair estimates following catastrophes throughout the country.

Sedona is in Arizona with very low humidity, the rammed earth should help with absorption as well and all exposed plumbing in humidity prone areas is over French drains. The exposure should also allow me to evaluate it once it's in use and possibly sleave it and use drain pipe around that to keep the appearance. That's a lot of extra cost though so I'm hoping it's not necessary. 

My cousin just left the insurance industry after 20+ years as an adjuster, and I know actuaries, so I understand the differences. Designing a custom house is more like actuarial work in its complexity; nothing against adjusting but you're mostly just checking boxes from a list as far as I can tell. (No offense.) My cousin also dabbles in house design, and is named Ryan... coincidence? He's not in Sedona, though.

This firm does beautiful work, including a lot with rammed earth and similar products: https://www.arkintilt.com/. (Most "rammed earth" is now just a weak concrete mix with dyes added. But still looks cool.)

We had David Arkin, one of the principles, on the BS + Beer Show I started and co-host: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIyGYtq9Iu4&t=13s. 

I wish it was that easy, I'm an independent and handle mostly large commercial losses and high end residential. Total losses need to be reverse engineered completely, sometimes entirely from slab information, debris, and satellite/street views. Then we have to write the carrier estimate for complete rebuild less slab. There are often engineers involved so I dont claim that level of knowledge but I can usually get within 10% of the final rebuild/repair estimate on first report. RCV values by the actuaries are a joke compared to a line item estimate, usually 20-30% under at least.

I hadn't noticed his budget; you make a good point. I don't know about quadrupling but around here $400/sf gets you slightly better than standard construction. I'd guess $600-$1200/sf would be a realistic range for Ryan. But $1600/sf is not out of the question.

Anyone know the average cost per foot for rammed earth?

I'm creating this whole thing in Xactimate so I should be able to price it within 10% of actual cost less permitting and experts (arch, engineer, etc.) The 400/sf is based on some very rough calculations in Xact and the architect's ballpark from looking at the previous version. Unfortunately Xactimate doesn't have rammed earth so I'll be using poured concrete in my pricing, if anyone does have a CF or CY price average for rammed it earth it would be very helpful.

You’re using cost guidelines/tables for pricing and expect to be within 10%? Not gonna happen. We do this for real and never assume that level of confidence.

Xactimate is far from a table or guideline, I've done estimates for total losses up to 1.4 million and come within 9% of final rebuild cost. By adding O&P at 15/10 and account for that additional 10% I think it'll be pretty close if I can get rammed earth pricing. The earth movement will certainly have some variability but as an adjuster pricing accuracy is extremely important. I was a teacher at an adjusting school and I've had architecture graduates as students, they were amazed at how accurate it was when you know how to use it. It even prices out the nails for stud work, just gotta know the correct item.

No residential contractor is only banking on 10/15 for oh/p when quoting on custom houses. Triple it for more realistic price.

Wood Guy, you're right, I was probably exaggerating on cost. I'm also Canadian and at least where I practice, there's not really cheap labour (ie no undocumented immigrants and very little competition).

Although I did not read the whole thing, I’m sure they included a walk in closet to store all their beige kakis organized. It’s that level of excitement.

Hey now, as an adjuster I wear beige khakis all the time but never by choice. The massing and layout isn't anything to write home about but I'm a lot more interested in the details than having some garish Gehry. I think the design also reflects the mountains, pueblo ruins, and overall look of sedona very well. There's a change to the exterior wall that I think should make the fireplace nook/hallway area much more pleasing as well. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, myself and my parents like a semi-industrial simple aesthetic.

It's less than mediocre.

Non sequitur, ya mind just leaving me be? You got me heated last time and it's clear you have no confidence or interest in my project. I dont see the value in having your comments here and they sorta just irritate.

Ryan, you’ve given literally no value to what devices architects actually offer. Your house has no consideration to anything resembling an enjoyable living space. It’s a 3D extrusion of a costing spreadsheet mixed in with bad HGTV influences. If you’re happy paying a massive premium for mediocrity, then fine, have at it, but don’t try to twist this and claim you’re making a better home.

It's obvious that people like you and I would never work in a client/architect relationship anyways so I don't understand why you seem so hell bent on criticizing me. It's fine if you can't understand the reasons why I want to build this way and it's fine if you think my ideas have no merit. Your assumptions about who I am and what I have to offer are documented extensively, but obviously they have not deterred me. I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, I'm just saying that neither of us benefit from communicating and we might as well simply ignore one another.

Important to note that in no way am I trying to deter you from anything.

While he is rough, please remember that you're coming to an architect's site... but generally trying to have a discussion on the decisions estimators, contractors, craftsmen, etc have. There are nuts and bolts architects, but Non Sequitur is trying to remind you that the lion's share of advice you'll receive here is going to be on your design... and no, that doesn't mean we all expect some sort of "unbuildable" "Gehry" "swoop" to count. I'm sure you've already seen the like considering your materials of choice, but Rick Joy is known well for his design with rammed earth (among others). A master painter may not be able to sculpt but will be able to notice and perhaps articulate the reasons why a master sculptor is good. A layman might hate both, never want to visit either's exhibits, and really enjoy the work their 10 year old has provided... and that's perfectly acceptable.

Getting? I was born there in 1990 and I cant think of a time it wasn't saturated with rich hippies looking to find their spirit animal. When you know psychics personally and see their homes it's a lot harder to take them seriously. It's kinda like how catholic school beats the jesus out of people, I'm a died in the wool skeptic. Honestly I dont even believe in the soul, that's part of why I want to leave some sort of physical legacy.

On the flip side I'm way into gems and minerals just not in that way. There are some really unique properties to those materials. Pesio and pyroelectric properties, light refraction and polarization, pleochroism. Dont let the hippies scare you away, the dont need voodoo to be cool.

Thanks for the time, honestly the little tidbits people give add up to quite a bit and I certainly don't expect anyone to devote hours to this. I'm getting rid of one of the 45's in favor of a curved wall, I know that's the opposite of why you make the suggestion but considering the use of the room (TV / breakfast nook where the fireplace is now) I wont have much in the way of furniture. I want to stick to the body look because it matches the style of the pueblo ruins in the area but personally I love odd angles and want to have at least one room that isn't square. Your advice has me thinking about the master bedroom-patio exterior wall though, probably can square that and change the closet up to make that room look much nicer. The hvac, plumbing, and electrical is all close but nothing's completely right. I'm lucky to know a ton of old timers who have helped me in various ways (navy electricians, an engineer or two, plumbers, etc) but it'll all be left to the professionals in the long run. The architect is chosen so that's out of the way but I'll certainly look up Zumthor for some inspiration.

Fortunately or unfortunately I love the steampunk aesthetic but I hate bells and whistles, no wasted pipe just for looks or gears that dont do anything. I'm trying to keep myself restrained in that regard and hopefully with the addition of spiral duct we can reach more of an industrial look rather than captain's goggles-tophat.

lol like this cheap m.f. is going to hire peter "architecture jesus" zumthor...

If I wanted cheap I'd buy a house that someone built 30 years ago, probably something with big columns to symbolize power and authority while using materials that won't last a generation. That or maybe a stick built with fresh pine wood, the drywall cracks give a nice sense of age. Or maybe a leaky old Frank Loyd Wright, plenty of those in AZ that no one can live in.

I'm kidding of course, but the reality is if I'm gonna pay extra I want it to be exactly what I want. The more information I can get together the easier it will be to explain what I want to the architect and having a 3D model beats doodles and explanations. Plus it's fun, takes my mind off writing claims for a bit when I cant go out thanks to Covid and Dengue fever outbreaks

To add to the photorealistic rendering, consider getting: http://raylectron.com/webver2/ 

Try with your SketchUp model. This is a good way for you to present a better quality rendering output than that which is provided by SketchUp's standard renderer which is intentionally not photorealistic. You'll want to learn it and how to select high quality textures appropriate for the materials used. 

That roof is only over the great room and from top to bottom goes: SS metal, sheathing, u channel, I beam (rockwool between) then wood ceiling. This is the only wood besides doors and cabinets but its necessary. All of that is inside a parapet at a 3/12 with gutters and no penetrations. I tried to keep it as brief as I could but there's certainly more detail to this design than I've listed here.

The contractor I have has experience and does this kind of rammed earth and has two rammed earth houses in the sedona area. I'm having to use a lot of old timers for the exact reasons you've listed above, none of this is common practice and they're the only ones still doing things the old way. His son is the architect so they're both familiar with each others work and limitations which should help.

Also the hot rolled steel is becoming popular in this area so were definitely following local trends in many ways.

So then the U's are purlins, and you've just left a giant air gap between your insulation and your sheathing? that's going to make your attachment for the mineral wool pretty funky, it's not going to be able to be pressure fit between the beams like you would with framing.

Polished concrete could mean a lot of things. Using your structural slab as the finish is a bit risky.... 

Couldn't you just as easily attach the rockwool to the ceiling panels and hang them?

I had originally planned on pressure fitting between I beams, thanks for the tip. The above answer was an off the cuff idea, that roof has a 8' overhang so I have no delusions about the framing design making it into the final. I took a whack at it for fun but it's certainly being left to the architect/structural engineer to figure out the how (or if) it would be done.

As for the slab, I don't know enough about it to say how it would be done but no I had not intended on using the structural as the finish, as far as I know those are different mixes and that would probably be pretty ugly.

Probably not a good idea, you'd have to do something funky, especially if the wood is slatted. Could it be done some way...probably, but you'd be better off looking a typical methods.

If you're referring to how much I write, I'm pretty quick at the keys so I end up three pages in before I realize it. Habit of disquisition as one fella put it.

There was a fellow named Rick that people on this forum have mentioned on this forum a number of times that have been known for lengthy posts. It might be why people are responding to the length of your posts and volume of posts.

There once was a fellow named Rick

Whose resume' grew mighty thick 

He cut and he pasted 

Some thought he was wasted 

But everyone tired of his shtick.

Thanks for the poem. Good humor.

If I ever write memoirs I'm naming them TLDR

That Rick fellow now posts under the handle rcz1001.

I'm not sure what the issue is but there are reasons for pitched roofs for reasons other than snow such as efficient shedding of rain and also used in windy areas. Parts of Texas are exposed to strong winds and rain. There is also the existing architectural context to consider.

How on earth does a steep roof help with high winds? Anything over 9/12 is loses shingles way more often and wind driven rain typically enters at ridges not mid-slope. Put simply, steep is good for snow and cold (reduces risk of ice daming) and lower slope is better for wind. Before you say something about lining up with the wind direction: no... just no...

Loses shingles in high winds* plus steep roofs need 5 nails or they slide down slope slowly.

I was talking about the roof form, not the type of roofing. Different types of roofing (composition shingles, wood shingles, metal roofing, slate, etc.) have differing performance. How you secure the roofing to the roof structure is important but the roof form is considerably important. It isn't just a matter of preventing loss of roofing but also preventing the loss of the roof structure. If you lose the roof structure, you are not just losing the shingles. FYI: I actually didn't say steep. The ideal zone is 5:12 pitch. Even roofs 12:12 will perform fine. You have to brace things effectively in the roof structure as well as have a good secured connection. It should be noted that 12:12 pitch roofs seldom have huge overhangs. Walls can adequately handle rain with rain-screen if you are in such an environment with lots of rain. For snow load, you need more than just a steep roof pitch, the roof structure needs to be stout in heavy slow load environment. We aren't talking about using modest 2x4 roof framing. We are talking something more stout than typical light wood-frame construction.

I've definitely seen a few 2x4 frames roofs collapse under moderate snow loads even at 10/12. The steep pitch in the SW is usually people trying to bring their NE style to the desert with no consideration for the environment they're building in or why that style is used where it is.

In the Arizona desert, it really doesn't matter that much. Little rain. Little snow unless you are up in the mountains. Ice isn't that hard of an issue to solve. I live where we have rain, snow, ice, and category 3-5 hurricane-force winds (from time to time). That old Victorian survived the past 130-150 or so years. I'm sure we can do better with a stronger roof structure and using a suitable connection system between the rafters and the wall frame. I do understand where the steep roofs don't seem to fit into the landscape. I'm guessing you read a few books about Frank Lloyd Wright.

There is a city neighborhood context to keep in mind when designing inside cities. When you are out in the middle of nowhere, how your home look doesn't matter as much if it isn't being seen by anyone.

The main reason I did the massing and layout myself was to see how having all this exposed would look. It easily becomes cluttered or too steampukey (yes thats intentional) so without laying it out it's hard to balance the exposures.

here's a tip - when receiving criticism, just shut the fuck up. We don't care WHY you did something, just that it's there, in the project, and it is wrong. That you had good intentions or rational thought behind it doesn't change the fact it sucks.

You're just upset that you never designed something so nice AA.

Thanks for the feedback, definitely considering taller ceilings. 

The magnetic attachment idea was in response to the acoustic issues of having steel panel on steel stud, by removing fasteners the problems aren't solved but certainly helped. I did some quick tests and I think it should be suitable for most areas but the wall between the guest bath and master bedroom is just poor design, I do not want to hear that flushing from the master. That's more layout though.

The R value on rammed earth is poor, I really would like to avoid insulation if I can but it may not be worth the added effort to go without. I like the idea of having it built a more traditional way and not relying to heavily on HVAC, certainly won't be a cost effective decision in my life time but I may eat the added cost if it doesn't break the bank.

Amen!

Ramen!

NS - One of our projects in school was a church. In my renderings, every place where religious iconography would've been got FSM.

I'm petitioning Paul to increase the thumbs up feature to include multiple up votes for this comment.

Yep, meeting is scheduled for later this month when we're both available. Until then I guess yall are stuck with me.

We're not stuck with you. You're fired.

Something about that blue name makes that extra ominous.

This house, as you've "designed" it, isn't architecture. Your questions are not architectural in their nature. And despite being called out multiple times on this fact specifically, you seem to willfully ignore the very concept.

tduds, "Architecture" has many interpretations. While it doesn't meet your personal interpretation doesn't mean it doesn't meet some other interpretive standard of what constitutes 'architecture'. Don't confuse this with good designing or architectural design. I'm just saying that you are coming off like one of those prima donna artist types.

Don't even start with me Rick.

My unpopular opinion is that many architects do not produce "Architecture." Hell, many of my own projects are not what I'd call "Architecture."

But I'm willing to accept that is an unpopular opinion.

leave the ego in your bed.

Nothing to do with ego or quality. There is a lot of shitty architecture out there that I'd nonetheless call architecture. Similarly there are a lot of amazing works that I would say are amazing but that aren't "architecture" 

I'm really proud of some of my projects that aren't architecture.

I'll just pre-emptively explain myself even though I was originally being kind of glib... 

Architecture, as I see it, is a deliberate assemblage of space. Everything else flows from that. This house is an exercise in extreme effort towards the "everything else" but without a hint of understanding of the arrangement of space. Therefore, I wouldn't call it architecture.

Good. 

It is still architecture.... whether it is shitty of amazing. 

What do you define as "Architecture"? (just see it above)

Does every architect, past, present, and future agree with it? Is it that absolutely defined? What is Art? What isn't Art? What is the qualifier? It is just subjective reasoning as far as I am concerned. 

In other words, it's just personal interpretations by personalities. I have read and heard multiple yet varying interpretations of what is "architecture" and isn't "architecture". I have my own interpretation of what is or isn't "architecture". You have your own. Others have their own respective interpretation of what is or isn't "architecture". I'm not saying the OP's design is great.

this is why i make the distinction of architecture as a process, not a thing. the result of all architecture is a building (assuming it is built....), but not every building came about as a process of architecture.

Your dedication to putting what you call "letters" in a specific order to form "words" to explain yourself is extremely limiting, dude. Now quit hogging the spliff.

arrangement of space is architecture? Do you also believe form follows function? Anyway check out the project "The Tower House by Gluck+". I think the vertical stack of bedroom is not convenient with all the stairs. Not sure if it meets your arrangement of space approval, but it is architecture nonetheless, and a successful one. I think anything that is built is architecture, the only bad architecture is a boring one that no one looks at with a second glance. Architecture is a never ending exploration that continues to evolve while being critiqued and debated. And let me ask you, Frank Gehry, yay or nay?

"Architecture, as I see it, is a deliberate assemblage of space. Everything else flows from that. This house is an exercise in extreme effort towards the "everything else" but without a hint of understanding of the arrangement of space. Therefore, I wouldn't call it architecture." I would agree with you as a designer. What is deliberate? How do we know there isn't some kind of deliberate arrangement by the original poster even though the original poster doesn't know how to verbally or in written form communicate it. Why did the OP choose the size of the rooms or its arrangement? If there wasn't a decision, there wouldn't be a SketchUp model. There is a decision and a reason for why each line was placed in the model is placed where it is. It is unclear to you. It is unclear to me. The OP had some decisions he made. The reasons may not be how you or I would decide things. You and I come from some "school" of design thinking process. We base our decisions on a methodical and perhaps more sophisticated understanding of the space-form-function relationship. The OP lacks this "schooling". Therefore, the OP may not be able to consciously convey why the decisions are made as you or I would.

I did think about it and arranged it as best I could, but certainly the focus was on function over form. Personally I think people like Gehry are important for advancement of the field but I would never want to live in one of his houses.

Also I'd add that I've been very clear that I have no attachment to the layout and don't claim that I'm acting as the architect. I'm working on a new post that makes clearer that point and asks what I'd really come here to ask.

please don't

You don't have to read them you know...

Tduds, 

Every decision comes with some sort of weighing of options. We just don't know what options the OP weighed in the process. It may be unclear about what it was because of lack of a 'journal' recording that is putting a record of the design thought process. Thomas Hubka wrote an journal article about the vernacular designer and the generation of form. (Article: Just Folks Designing: Vernacular Designers and the Generation of Form). If you can get a copy of the article, it is an interesting read about how vernacular design process is done. Here's a Slide show (video) url link: ( https://slideplayer.com/slide/5960475/ ) -- that touches basis on this but the complete article is worth having as well as anything bibliographically referenced. 

Thomas Hubka referenced two types of designers. The "Bricoleur" traditional vernacular designer and the Scientist (Modern Designer). The modern vernacular designer is a lot like the "Bricoleur" but also a little bit like the modern designer given the tools we have today and the ability to research. Therefore, the modern day vernacular designer (non-professional designers like the OP) is a bit of a hybrid of both. Given the lack of training and experience that the modern professional designer would have, their knowledge base of options is more limited. It doesn't mean there isn't any kind of deliberation for the assemblage. It may not be up to a professional designer's standard but it doesn't mean it isn't any deliberation. 

The OP (Ryan Young) may not have been good at communicating his reasons, the options he has evaluated, the criteria he used to decide, etc. His design reason process for deliberation is based on different criteria than what you or I would be using. He has different priorities. He may have been less focused on the spatial volume and things like juxtaposition of opposites (large and small, high and low, etc,). His lack of education in things like pattern language is due to his non-education in architecture.

You don't have to post them you know...

"this is why i make the distinction of architecture as a process, not a thing. the result of all architecture is a building (assuming it is built....), but not every building came about as a process of architecture." 

I agree with you about architecture as a process. However, there are many processes. Some are formal processes that are taught and trained within architecture school and professional employment. There are also many informal processes that are practiced. This is what I am getting at with the matters of vernacular architecture (or design if you like). Even a haphazard process is still a process even if it isn't very good or methodical. No design can exist without a process. Design is a process. Architecture is a process of designing buildings. 

We know the OP isn't even completely through his design yet. 

I'd say I didn't explain why I did the model the way I did effectively but more over I frame the topic properly. I tried again here if anyone isn't fed up yet: 

https://archinect.com/forum/thread/150210897/tl-dr-an-adjuster-s-thoughts-on-home-design

Yes it is just as long-winded and has the exact same model used, but I think it's far more focused a topic.

You are not a professional designer. How can you without the "vocabulary"? It takes time to learn the "vocabulary" and the systematic processes that are taught and the methods of designing a building. As you said, you are communicating the best you can. I am aware of that. To an extent, I am defending you in that you yet at the same time, I am not defending the design. There are some issues that I see. Some of them involve overhead clearance issues that can be resolved by either higher ceiling height or wider corridor where the pipes run against the wall or otherwise allows a 32" minimum wide (or wider as necessary) egress path.

For example: This needs to be addressed better.

The corridor path appears to be too narrow and those pipes looks like a possible issue.

In architectural speak, if this was a construction document, this would be a big "redline" moment.

I feel I'm going to get plenty of mileage out of this image:

Thanks for the comic but I'm sure you edited the photo to put the Clatsop Community College logo in the picture.

Also the relationship.

Pete, the woman in the comic is the mother.

Solid detective work, Ricky.

N.S., uh... kind of sick don't you think. That 'Hon' part sounds like an intimate relationship and that would be implying incest.

^errata: replace the content of the first speech bubble with "Go to bed, son". 

Better?

In psychological speak, if this was a therapy session, this would be a big "aha" moment.

N.S., still debatable.

Nice spatula.

I've seen cockroaches that took 3-4 rounds to discourage. So, yeah...

And isn't Exposed Pipes showing on the Hustler Channel tonight?  Asking for a friend.

Don’t remember giving permission to use that picture of my sink...

That sink is a masterpiece Rando. I'm surprised you haven't won numerous design awards in Europe for that sucker. I'm envious of your skilz.

That is really sculptural, not my cup of tea, for OP i would suggest check out this "Tucson Mountain Retreat by DUST". The house even made it to one Netflix house show.

that is a very nice house, I would also suggest to look at the works of rick joy, master in rammed earth construction.

The Tucson house a friend told me about and that actually started my interest in RE. Goff is definitely fun to look at but is the opposite of the function over form approach I'm pushing for.

I know you prefer function over form, that is why i question why you have all these complex turns and elevation changes. Simple pure geometry is more suitable for this construction and raw aesthetic .

Although I am not a huge fan of rammed earth wall, feels like ancient developing world system. The look depends on specific earth mix, and it is not cheap to do in US. I prefer stud wall with batt, then CI, then rain screen cladding of choice. Anyway, below is a company that does quality insulated rammed earth system, check it out. Remember to do insulated rammed earth wall with foam insert. ​https://sirewall.com/sirewall-system/​