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Switching careers at 36 to architecture?

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michaellau1

hi I am 36 and thinking of going into architecture. Would it be advisable? And how would I do it? Enroll in an undergrad again or a master's degree? I graduated computer science.. thanks.

 
Nov 24, 19 11:47 am
Bloopox

Since you already have a bachelor degree, the shortest route would be an M.Arch program.  Most have a 3 to 3.5 year route for those who don't already have an undergrad degree in a related field.  Applying typically requires a portfolio of visual work, and sometimes a few pre-reqs such as a course in architecture history, a semester of physics, and/or calculus.

Whether you should do it or not is a lot more complicated - you should try to arrange to shadow an architect, to see what the day to day work is really like.  Understand the timeline:  after the 3 or 3.5 years of study you'll usually need at least 3 years of experience before you can sit for the licensing exams.  An oft-repeated rule of thumb is that architects aren't even fully competent until their mid 50s.  If you start your M.Arch at 36 you'll be 8-10 years behind the average, so might hit your stride in your 60s.  Be realistic about salary expectations: most architects are not highly paid professionals.

Nov 24, 19 12:13 pm
RickB-Astoria

So instead of 3 years of architecture education spread over 5 years, because of general education, an M.Arch does that education curriculum in ~3 years because you don't have those undergrad general education.  

A lot of the basic requirements of an NAAB accredited degree is stipulated and defined by NAAB. Each school has limited flexibility with it but there is certain defined requirements in the accreditation.

( o Y o )

Do you have a trust fund?

Nov 24, 19 12:23 pm
flatroof

Also if you go the 3/3.5 M.Arch. route, know there is a bit of a bias against graduates of those programs outside the Ivies, MIT, etc. Many 5 or 6 year degree holders look down on them as expensive associates degrees and I have seen job ads for entry level specifying 5 or 6 year degrees only. 

Nov 24, 19 2:42 pm
RickB-Astoria

The biggest problem they have is simple.... they just simply don't realize that the architecture major in a B.Arch IS a 3 to 3.5 year curriculum when you take into account the general education requirements of all majors. That extra ~2 years is general education that is required for any bachelors degree of any major. When you take an M.Arch, you don't have to do that two year general education requirement because you ALREADY did it in your undergrad.

BulgarBlogger

Lol- you have it all wrong. If you get credit for all AP-classes, you can substitute architectural classes for general education classes in order to be full-time. Beyond that, the B.Arch supplements his 3-years or so of architectural education (as you put it) with earlier exposrure to practice/work. Where someone who went to a four-year non-architecture related program, and then gets a 3.5 Masters (total of 7.5 years of education), the B.Arch graduate has a headstart

BulgarBlogger

in terms of experience. Finally, the B.Arch saves a total of 2.5 years of tuition compares to that person who "suddenly" woke up and decided he/she wanted to study architecture and enrolled in a 3.5 year M.Arch.

SneakyPete

Speaking as a 3.5 graduate, you can succeed just fine.

RickB-Astoria

BB, sometimes you run into problems when an undergrad course curriculum is done over a 5 year period. I said a B.Arch is really 3 years worth of curriculum that is architecture and the rest is general education. Sure, you could add courses for full-time enrollment which defeats any real savings in cost. An M.Arch doesn't require any general education classes because it is assumed to be part of the undergrad education. Normally, a B.Arch student is often a fresh out of high school graduate when they enter and it is their FIRST degree. This is in no way a first degree for the OP. The OP already has a degree. It will be maybe his or her SECOND degree. Whether that be a second bachelors degree or an M.Arch... it might not make a damn bit of difference except cost. A factor to bear in mind is we are not just talking tuition but possibly the cost of housing. Some B.Arch are structured in a way that the sequencing is done over a 5 year period. You mentioned AP credit. It won't matter other than what MIGHT be only a few courses which is entirely up to articulation of credits transferred. An M.Arch, you really don't have to worry about that. The tuition is a little higher but you don't have to be there for 5 years. You can be done in 3 years including a summer. So be it. AP for architecture courses..... won't likely apply to someone without architecture or related background. Could get that if he worked for an architect. 

The type of experience matters, of course. Not merely being employed. Being the IT guy doesn't cut it. I don't know how he or she would fit into advanced placement and save enough credit. He or she would get courses already taken and transferred to be articulated to the equivalent courses but that's normal with any transfer students. Hell, I had that, too! may not make any difference for an architecture degree courses. 


Formerlyunknown

No M.Arch programs grant advanced placement for work in a firm.

RickB-Astoria

I don't think I was implying that. As far as I am aware of, you only get AP credit for general education courses and that is by taking AP exams with certain scores and some of the other kinds of similar programs (IB, credit by exam, CLEP, etc.). It means nothing if you already have the courses because that would be part of transferring college credits. I think my point with advanced placement for work in a firm is only in a few B.Arch programs where you might get to skip the Arch 101 introductory course or something like that. For an M.Arch, you don't need to do any of that (AP,IB, CLEP, etc.) for general education stuff because you don't have such general education requirements for grad school. You would have to essentially have a bachelors degree with such general education in the first place to get into an M.Arch program. The only advanced placement in architecture school that I know of is by having some credits from architecture programs be it an associate, a bachelors degree, or whatever. That comes from course by course articulation when you transfer your credits. I'm not aware of many that look at experience but few do and I have heard of it but it isn't something. I believe they call that "Advanced standing" when you have courses from an architecture school and you transfer to another one like a Pre-professional BA/BS program and into a B.Arch in like your second year. Sometimes they exist out there and is highly discretionary in many cases by the admissions department.

Formerlyunknown

There is advanced standing in some M.Arch programs, based on previous coursework. Articulation doesn't apply though, because the courses don't "transfer". There's no connection between undergrad and graduate transcripts, and your GPA starts over from scratch in grad school (except in a few cases of schools that award both a 5-year B.Arch and a 1-year or 1.5 year M.Arch at the same time at the end of one continuous curriculum.) What happens is that the M.Arch program admits the student at a higher level, and waives the credit requirement for the courses already taken. There is also advanced placement or course waiver - this is different - it means the courses are waived, but the total credit requirement is still the same. In that situation the student has to take other electives instead of the waived required courses, because the credits needed to graduate are still the same.

RickB-Astoria

I get you on that. I'm not implying or intending to imply that a person can take transfer undergrad courses in architecture into graduate courses in architecture for advanced standings. I do get you on the number of credits to graduate. I think we are in agreement in what you said above. In the OP's case, advanced placement based on courses won't matter here. Note: A second bachelors won't require another 180 credits. It would require a certain minimum number of credits for a major and maybe residency requirements may apply depending on the institution. As for the M.Arch, there won't be any advanced standing, placement or course waiving just because of his computer science education. Likely because it would be too irrelevant of an education to compare academically to any of the architecture courses. As for B.Arch or a BA/BS in Architecture, the OP would still have to take the architecture courses and I doubt there can be any course waiving. I might be able to get course waiving in some cases in an undergrad level architecture degree but that would be because of my education and background differs from the OP in the details and it isn't for my background in software development.

RickB-Astoria

Basicly, forget retiring at 67. Generally speaking, the regular retirement age only assumes you go to college for one career and you work in that one career for the next 40-45 years. Luckily, architecture is a career that you can continue to well into your 80s and frequently, architects do continue to work well past their 80s so you can still milk a good 30 years out of this profession even with a pay setback. Recalculate your retirement to about 85-95. you might slow down some in those later years but still make it alright. Changing careers ALWAYS results in some duration of a pay setback if you been in one for any length of time already.


Nov 24, 19 3:41 pm
kjdt

For many people being prepared for retirement has a lot more to do with investing well than with one's salary history. Somebody who has a higher-paying career earlier, and then switches gears to a lower-paying one, may be able to retire with a good living standard at an average or even younger age, if they began putting a good amount into their retirement accounts during that first career.

RickB-Astoria

No argument there. However, I doubt the OP made enough to do so or done a good enough investment early on to compensate for the likelihood of this profession's moderately piss poor pay. Things are better now then it used to be but not sure if that's enough. Lets not forget that at 36, his best pay in the prior career was probably in the last 5 to 10 years not likely in the first 5 years out of college.

kjdt

You don't need a high salary at all if you start early. If someone started investing even $5k per year in a low-fee index fund in their mid-20s, and continued that throughout their career and increased their contributions even by a few % per year, they can have millions by the time they retire.

RickB-Astoria

What 25 year old would even be thinking of index funds and the likes? Especially if they are living paycheck by paycheck.

The OP has a computer science degree. We don't know if he/she did anything with that degree or his or her work experience, salaries over the 10 or so years from graduation to present. In the OP 's case, income can be all over the place at this point. 


Formerlyunknown

Income can be all over the place for somebody at any age, in many professions. I'd say that's a good reason why nobody should be blanket advice that anybody who starts architecture at 36 isn't going to be able to retire until they're 95. 

As for "what 25 year old would even be thinking..." - even most mid-sized to larger architecture firms offer 401k's.  In my firm we have a nearly 100% participation rate, so that would mean pretty much everybody in their twenties and all other age groups is participating.  Some probably only do so up to the 3% to get the employer match, but that would still mean a few thousand dollars a year for even the lowest paid twenty-something.  Anybody whose employer offers a match would be just plain stupid to not participate.

Non Sequitur

Ricky, I did at 26 when I first started fresh out of grad school.

RickB-Astoria

FormerlyUnknown, I never said the person can't retire until they're 95. That's misreading what I said. However, the normative for most professions on average with average salary increases over a period of years of experience and starting architecture at 36 is like going back to where you were at 18 years of age and being at the bottom of the totem pole and there's little to no catching up without going past the age of 67 which is when you get FULL RETIREMENT benefits with social security. So consider life time earning. While it is true that income can be all over the place for somebody at any age, 90% of the population is going to be falling in or closely around the statistical normative for any age with reflection on any given profession's normative pay standards. I'm talking about life long careers as an employee vs. going out and establishing a business which can be all over the map. I'm figuring fully retiring would have to be pushed down the road some given there would likely be a step back in salary before he/she would be re-intersect where his/her salary would be if he/she continues in the career/profession he or she is currently in. Normatively, people in computer science occupations tend to retire at 67. Some early and some a few years later. Architecture is one of those fields where the normative age is or tends to be a little later. For example, at my age, in computer science, I would most likely be a executive director/executive production director if I was working at a major video game development studio potentially earning over $125K a year. At my age, in architecture, you may only be getting about half that much as an employee that is if I started at 18 years old and got a B.Arch and maybe even an M.Arch. There is a lower ceiling in salaries for any given amount of years of experience in architecture normally then some of the sectors of the software/IT industry which computer science majors tends to work in and that is a vary broad field that everywhere where computers are used.

RickB-Astoria

N.S., most people even at 25 wouldn't even know what kjdt is even talking about with regards to low fee index fund. They would only know it if they have family members or friends of the family around that knows what that is and talking about it or something along the lines of someone in their life that knows what the terminology is. 

Therefore, good for you.

BulgarBlogger

Rick, you're a small hick town builder. Maybe people at 25 where you live don't think about investments, but here in NYC, things are different. It all boils down to your "financial blueprint" which is mostly based on how ones parents raised them to think about money.

RickB-Astoria

Also, if you live in manhattan, you have to be rich or well off to live there. Most of America is hick towns, by the way. FYI: I used to live in a big city area and I am not talking about Eugene, Oregon or even Portland or Seattle which are small to where I lived. I used to live in the Los Angeles metropolitan area. I said, most people in America live outside these big cities and in small towns. Even if you did live in a big city, it isn't something outside of rich families like those coming from parents that are bankers and financiers. Look, NYC is also where wall street is so yeah, investment financing is something pretty big there. However, NYC isn't even up to half of the U.S. population. I know what kjdt was talking about but it isn't something that you'll be necessarily investing a lot of money into that early on in most places with most people. 

PS: That's building designer... not builder. I haven't bothered with the state contractor license at this time although I know the requirements. Yes, I have training that involved construction and techniques in preservation and restoration of historic buildings via the crafts. It is part of the education but by far not all of it formally and informally. I probably know enough to build a house or building but not something I would do alone unless the building is really small. Contractors are required to carry insurance and bond as a condition of licensure and renewal. 

Architects are not required by licensing laws or regulations to carry such. There maybe contractual requirements but that is not the same thing as licensing requirements. With historic preservation, I would have to go through the lead based paint certification stuff and periodic recertification stuff that would suck up money. 

While contractors may make a good deal of gross income but there can be a lot more overhead and associated costs such as tools and equipment that is required to do the job unless you practically sub it all out and is just a "paper contractor". In which case it might not be a big deal if you are also designer or architect. In which case, you would be supervising and having more control over means and method and the liability of that. Therefore, you have to exercise more care to not f--- up. 

Anyway, that's another topic.

BulgarBlogger

No Rick-

BulgarBlogger

People in this city make more, but have more expenses. If their expenses were the same as those in Oregon, then you would be right. We are talking economies of scale. What I would say, however, is that when talking about investment- the more money you make, the more you think about how to make it work for you. There are irresponsible people everywhere, but when you're living in a small simple town, you're there for a reason; you have come to terms with your choice that you're never going to be rich, and THAT is the mentality or blueprint I am talking about...

RickB-Astoria

I said, Manhattan not Bronx. Yeah... some expenses are the same or approximately the same like computers which are the same prices regardless of where you are in the contiguous 48 states. You buy them on Newegg and it's shipped to you and pay the same. What cost more in some parts of NYC is the rent is like $2700 or more a month for a 300 to 500 sq.ft. apartment. Minimum wage in NYC is $15/hour. That's $31,200. The Eugene apartment for a studio apartment of 450-550 sq.ft. range costs like $2800 to $4700 a month. At $3000 a month, you couldn't live there at minimum wage. What's an entry level fresh out of architecture school graduate with 0 work experience in architecture starting salary? Aren't they like maybe $18/hour now? Even if you worked full-time every week, that's $37,440. Not going to work unless you have a full-time working room mate to split the cost. You are probably not going to live there if you have to pay that much in rent with such a shit pay. You better have a hell of a lot better pay then $18/hour.

It is because certain costs are inflated a lot.

RickB-Astoria

Right now, with currently available places for rent, the prices are typically in the $750 to $2250 range with sq.ft. from around 500 sq.ft. to 1000+ sq.ft. So between $1 to $2 per sq.ft. Not too bad if your income is steady and you may at least $23,000 a year. Current minimum wage in Astoria is $11.25/hr. An affordable apartment for a single person is about $1000 to $1100. A good apartment for entry level pay at $18/hr. is still $1000-$1200 apartment because you have to have room to afford to pay your student loans payments, and still have a modest living. Frankly, a ~500 sq.ft. apartment is modest for one person. Cramming more people and you basically have a jail cell space for each person.

RickB-Astoria

In cases, we can rent practically an entire house from $750 a month in nearby Warrenton to $2000 a month in some of the places in Astoria. The prices aren't bad and decent floor space.

BulgarBlogger

Guess how many 25 year olds manage to pay rent AND go spend on the credit card? Im not saying that at 25 it will be peechy, but part of investing is about frugal.

BulgarBlogger

How many 25 year olds go out to eat instead of colm? How many use Uber instead of bicycle/take the metro? How many pay fees on their credit cards? How maby

RickB-Astoria

Do you realize landlords are raising the rent because they want to take a certain percentage of income of renters for the space so when the baseline income goes up, so does the cost. Some want more percentage of income of their envisioned renter. If the baseline of the renters they are targetting goes up 20% then they raise rent up because the idea is.... since you are getting paid 20% more then you can pay 20% more rent. They all play that game so they can profit on you. It isn't like they are investing on the property as they make from the property.

RickB-Astoria

I didn't see your reply above until now.

BulgarBlogger

How many instead of cook?* How many seek out deals/sales instead of buy at full-price? Its all about the financial blueprint. I think that to rent a closet and save money is better than spending beyond your means to put up an image...

BulgarBlogger

Is it going to suck for a little while? Sure- but if you are disciplined and frugal, the savings are an investment into lets say -- a downpayment on a house that you can rent out.

BulgarBlogger

So it has nothing to do with having money or not- it has everything to do with how you approach money in general; whether you have respect for it or not. Spending money to be with friends is as tempting as hanging with friends when you have to be studying for the ARE. No reward comes without sacrifice.

RickB-Astoria

Yeah, they choose cheaper places to rent and spending on credit cards. Sure, if you can commute into town and you sure the f--- ain't commuting 100 miles on a bicycle to work like it would be for me to commute that way to the nearest big city. Sure, you budget but that's all the kinds of expenses, I am talking about. No way in hell you can pay for rent at a place that is as much or more to rent then you earn in income. Traffic in NYC sucks so bad it is amazing you get to work at 8AM every day. Here, if you don't show up to work on time, you got a employment termination notice waiting for you when you get here unless you have really good justifiable reason for not getting to work on time. Maybe, you guys don't worry about showing up late to work because there is little to no chance to reliably get to work on time at 8AM sharp with the perpetual traffic jam that runs 24 hours a day.

There are no credit cards that gives credit limits large enough to cover your living expenses when all your income goes to rent. There is no amount for food or anything else. Tell me how you can pencil out living in Manhattan as a fresh out of college employee for an architect without at least one other full-time room mate. Ideally, two other room mates.... yeah.... 3 renters sharing a 450-550 sq.ft. space. 


RickB-Astoria

I've had a package take a whole F---ing week to go from Jamaica, New York to New Jersey City, NJ just to go back to Germany and then it got resent without the shit show. I had to question of how the f--- it took THAT long to travel the distance of NYC to NJC?

BulgarBlogger

You are making a LOT of assumptions which simply aren't true. Most people who start off working in New York in architectural firms make between $45 and $50k. After taxes, their monthly salary is $2500. Say student loans are $500 every month. Say you yave a roommate, and you owe $1000 for rent- you're left with $1000. Say you cook at home and spend $500 on meals. You're left with $500. Even if you go down to $250 (you use $250 to for a metro card and grab a beer every once in a while), you need 4 paycheckes (2 months) to save $1000. In a year, you're saved $6,000; by then you get a raise, and instead of getting $45k, you earn and save more!

BulgarBlogger

The problem is that not everyone is disciplined

BulgarBlogger

...to save money and be frugal. Then they complain that their salaires aren't high enough. Well yeah- at the beginning, they won't be, and then as you get more money, more opportunities come up in which your savings can actually start working for you. But people can't expect that frivolous and irresponsible spending combined with no savings and a lower salary equates to getting onselr

BulgarBlogger

onself out of a lower financial situation.

Threesleeve

"There are no credit cards that gives credit limits large enough to cover your living expenses when all your income goes to rent." - um, what? Rick you're getting into total idiot territory again - this is right up there with the time you proclaimed "they don't print manuals of UL assemblies."

Case study: My entire annual living expenses, minus my mortgage, are about $28,000. My current credit limit on all my cards combined is $169,800.  Rick you're basing your "advice" on your view of life as an unemployed perpetual teenager living in your parents' basement. If you've got credit cards they're probably the type that are marketed to college students as starter cards, with $300 or $500 limits. As soon as you start to have a real full time job with a real salary, and you start to develop a real credit history, they start to give you real cards with real limits. Not that I'd advise anyone to put their annual expenses on credit, or to get into a situation where all their salary is going to rent. My actual current utilization is a grand total of $1130.

Non Sequitur

What's the need for 170k in available credit tho? I capped my only CC at 40k and now that I think about it, my CC limit when I was a student was still over 20k.

More to the point, Ricky, from what I can remember, you've never been to NY City, correct?

Threesleeve

A lot of open cards with high-ish limits keeps the utilization ratio very low, which is a major factor in determining credit score. I was shooting for perfect (got there a few years ago) so kept all the cards open. The average household that has any cards has 3.7 of them, with an average limit of $8071 each, so most professionals do have the ability to put their annual expenses minus rent on their credit cards. Not that it's a good idea. Just that it's very far from impossible. And seriously who commutes to Manhattan by car? I lived there for a decade (without a trust fund) and never met anybody who drove into the city for work.

BulgarBlogger

The younger generations think that ordering-in is chic, but fail to be frugal. Ordering in costs A LOT more than cooking. And this nonsense about not having time is bullshit. If they spent as much time cooking and bringing their lunch to work as they do on facebook, they'd be in a very different place. Not to mention self-study and professional development outside the office.

kjdt

Around here the younger generation tells me that facebook is only still a thing for Gen X and older. But at least you're in the digital age and not living in whatever Dickensian novel Rick gets his ideas about the work world from. A 20-something with an architecture degree is an adult professional - they don't get fired for not being at their desk at 8 AM, and they do mostly make enough money to pay their bills, and accumulate some savings if they try. Rick maybe stop trying to educate people about work, money, and credit until you get those things.

RickB-Astoria

BB, in general, there is no credit cards with such a high amount that would be provided to most 25 year old fresh out of college with so little possible full-time work experience and very little chance of a significant earning income. You might get a CC like that for a business with 3 consecutive years earning at least that much per year. There are business cc and personal cc. Business CC usually allows a higher credit limit then most personal CCs.

RickB-Astoria

N.S., isn't your credit limit based in Canadian dollars? Wouldn't that be closer to $15K USD?

RickB-Astoria

Point is, you'd be running the limit really quick and most architecture firms usually don't raise income quickly in large amounts.

Non Sequitur

Ricky, since I'm aware of the general population in this forum, I tend to give numbers in yankee dollars. So, my $ above compares to those of Threesleeve.

BulgarBlogger

Rick, it seems like your world view, especially with regard to finance, is limited to Oregon or other small towns. Sure- people use CC's every, but I think it is ridiculous to presume that that is the only way to live in NYC.

RickB-Astoria

"You are making a LOT of assumptions which simply aren't true. Most people who start off working in New York in architectural firms make between $45 and $50k. After taxes, their monthly salary is $2500. Say student loans are $500 every month. Say you yave a roommate, and you owe $1000 for rent- you're left with $1000. Say you cook at home and spend $500 on meals. You're left with $500. Even if you go down to $250 (you use $250 to for a metro card and grab a beer every once in a while), you need 4 paycheckes (2 months) to save $1000. In a year, you're saved $6,000; by then you get a raise, and instead of getting $45k, you earn and save more!" 

BB, I was talking NYC not necessarily the whole state. You kind of have to live outside of Manhattan to get rent at those prices. Maybe if you lived in New Rochelle, NY which is technically outside NYC. At $2500 a month of take home, you forgot something in the calculation.... food. I am also talking about shopping for food and cooking not just going out to restaurants. What I am talking about for food is food you get from the grocery store and may need to cook. I'm not talking about living off restaurants or McDonald's. How much do a person need to spend a month to eat. Lets assume a monthly budget between $175 to $200 for food. You could get by with less like $150 if your regular diet is ramen noodles and a box of cereal. I can squeeze the budget down to below $100 a month but that's not exactly the best diet in the world. $150 is still a paltry budget. Truth is, there is likely a need for some lunch snack which you just don't have time to go home and cook so maybe one needs to work that out to $200 a month. Now, you have only $300. 

If you can get rent base rent for about $1500 and a room mate, that can reduce that to $750 per person. Some of the other costs might be shared and distributed and still not quite accounted for in the math above.... there is still not much to go off of. Even a simple smart phone service which ad a laptop which you can use Wifi at work or at various places for work purposes and the cell phone for work purposes.... yeah... it will not really leave you much of anything to save. Lucky to have even $100 a month. Lucky to squeeze $1500 a year. Don't forget the utilities like electricity and natural gas. 

Lets not forget you still have to commute. You can't assume you will get to work by a bicycle or by foot unless you live that close. There might still be that need for fueling the car. That could still cost a hundred a month or more. It depends on the demand and need for driving but it can come at a cost which you must then account for other costs like car insurance, etc. This can be negligible to significant as it can be over $400 a month when you take into the cost per month for that car. I know, insurance isn't necessarily a month payment. There is a lot of these things that nickles and dimes your budget until you have practically nothing left.

RickB-Astoria

In Oregon, entry level intern or basically what I would be paid without accounting for any prior experience as a building designer, would be a base salary of $40K-$45K outside of Portland, Oregon. Portland, it's around $45K to $55K based on that AIA salary calculator and some searches recently on what the pay is around. We have both a federal and state income tax in Oregon. I think NYS and Oregon compares in that regard. Parts of NYC is clearly cost prohibited without a salary closer to the $70K level for the studio apartment like I mentioned earlier. Some of the price levels would need to be up in the realm of $90K. With one room mate, the prices would work out. If alone, your income needs to be a bit higher so maybe a 1.5x factor to the salary so you are in okay shape for that and still have money you can save/invest/etc.

RickB-Astoria

Once you use CCs, you have to pay off the credit and not default. Kind of like a loan. Without income or sufficient income, it can sink you bad.

RickB-Astoria

Most places throughout the U.S. are not as expensive to live as NYC. However, most people starting out aren't thinking about retiring at 25 or investing money in low fee index funds. They are thinking about their immediate needs. Architecture is a field where people do frequently get laid off and guess what happens. Last one hired/first one fired is common practice. Sometimes, they gut out the 40+ year olds and trim that down to keep the inexpensive staff. Is it best practices? No. Does it happen? Yes. There is tales of that have littered this site over the years.

Because of potential setback in salary for a number of years, it is likely he or she would have to push back actually retiring from 67 to maybe 77 years of age. I am not saying he or she can't retire until they are 95 years old. I was saying this is a profession that a person can continue practicing into their 90s. Look at Gehry, he's how old now?


BulgarBlogger

Speaking from experience?

BulgarBlogger

Have you ever worked for an Architect? Which Architect?

threeohdoor

CCs are only a "loan" if you don't pay in full. CCs don't bankrupt people, people with a lack of financial education and/or awareness bankrupt themselves.

I'm also confused as to what we're talking about now.

RickB-Astoria

Why? Are you going to try to contact that architect? I worked mostly as a building designer but most experience I had working with an architect were short term. Even for a simple task of submitting some paper work for architect, I was paid like $18 to $20 an hour and that was back around 2013. My billed hourly rate as a building designer is higher than that due to greater liability exposure so it wasn't a bad pay. It wasn't much but wasn't bad for the amount. As a contracted consultant/employee at a firm in connection with a somewhat large project, I was paid $15/hr. and that was back in around 2008. Not bad. I would expect that regular employment pay rate would be around that amount per hour even in a salary format. You can still calculate an hourly rate from a base salary. 

RickB-Astoria

3ohdoor, does it have interest and do you have to pay it back?

It's scattered and all over the place. I'm not sure entirely myself.

tduds

Have either of you considered that you can just stop replying to each other?

BulgarBlogger

No- don't have time to go out of my way to contact anyone... you're not that important lol

Formerlyunknown

"Not bad"?!? Taking into consideration the tax implications, and typical employee benefits that an independent contractor doesn't get, a consultant rate of $15 per hour is approximately equivalent to an employee's hourly pay of $9 per hour. $20 as a consultant is about equal to $12 as an employee - i.e. someone making a little less than 25k annually. That's very, very poor pay for "a contracted consultant/employee at a firm in connection with a somewhat large project." 

Face it Rick: you're living a subsidized existing. Your parents are allowing you the privilege, such as it is, to avoid functioning as an adult working person. That's all between you and them - but it disqualifies you from dispensing career or financial advice, to anyone beyond middle-schoolers mowing lawns for pocket change.

threeohdoor

Interest kicks in if you don't pay in full what's on the statement. You could consider CCs zero-interest short-term loans with substantial upside opportunities for the lender. I think you might be confusing payday lending with credit cards...Same canvas, different paint.

archi_dude

Just wanted to chime in I made 40k at my first job at 23, didnt live at home and saved a lot more than just 5k my first year living in socal. In fact I then got laid off a few years later, made less than 30k and still saved money that year while a few blocks from the beach. Discipline and being creative is all you need. Had a girlfriend too, we were broke together! :)

RickB-Astoria

"Not bad"?!? Taking into consideration the tax implications, and typical employee benefits that an independent contractor doesn't get, a consultant rate of $15 per hour is approximately equivalent to an employee's hourly pay of $9 per hour. $20 as a consultant is about equal to $12 as an employee - i.e. someone making a little less than 25k annually. That's very, very poor pay for "a contracted consultant/employee at a firm in connection with a somewhat large project." 

 Formerlyunknown, it was contract employment not "independent contractor" otherwise the amount would have been higher per hour based on a billed hourly rate. They were short term employment versus independent contractor relationship. That was how it was handled. Could it have been billed as independent contractor relationship? Sure. Then it would be a billed hourly rate which would have been a few times higher because of the things you mentioned.

RickB-Astoria

archi_dude, you two shared expenses be it a split of the rent of one pays rent, the other pays utilities or some kind of sharing in the cost.

RickB-Astoria

threeohdoor, "Interest kicks in if you don't pay in full what's on the statement. You could consider CCs zero-interest short-term loans with substantial upside opportunities for the lender. I think you might be confusing payday lending with credit cards...Same canvas, different paint." 

Yes but all loans have an interest rate that kicks in after so much time (read the small print) and you have to pay it back. Credit cards are still technically a type of loan. Like you said, a short term loan like you said with maybe a temporary zero interest but that isn't always the case with credit cards. Some really do suck. Some are better in what they offer. If you are frugal and live within your means, you wouldn't need loans or shouldn't. 

I wouldn't work for an architect in Portland unless the pay is adequate for an apartment within walking distance or short commute via the public transit system that is reliable to get me to the employer's place reliably so I can show up to work on time. Punctuality. I wouldn't want to depend on automobile commuting even though it would work fine. That is important when I look at places where to work. Sure, if I am expected to meet with clients then yeah, having a vehicle is nice and useful. 

For example, in Astoria, I don't have to drive anywhere within city limits. I can walk to any location within a 4-5 mile radius. I can bike to a little further distance like 5-10 mile radius just fine.... except obviously the river itself as that is not commutable except via a boat. Public transit can be ok but not always ideal.

Formerlyunknown

Rick everybody understands the trade offs of various living and commuting situations. Once again you're making the thread all about you and the minutiae of your world. Aside from the occasional high school student forum visitor, you are the only one here who doesn't already have a job, an independent living situation, household bills that they budget for and pay for themselves, credit cards, etc. It makes no sense that you're trying to explain basic life skills to people who already have them, when you don't.

archi_dude

I lived with a roommate Rick not my gf of the time. And yes we split rent. It's a common thing done between two people not living with their parents.

RickB-Astoria

You and have contributed to this discussion being more about me than what I began with in this discussion in the first place. I think we gone way too far from the OP discussion and we (myself included) didn't cut this discussion off quickly enough when it deviated from the main point of discussion.

RickB-Astoria

I'm not particular fond of living with roommates and the drama that comes with it. Kind of the same shit with dorms so when I look at rent, I am looking at the whole cost including the utilities, not splitting it up with someone else. So is it cost affordable if I was renting the space entirely myself at the income level of the job position. These are things I do consider regarding jobs and where. I've known landlords that charge full rent price for each tenant living in the same unit. So no point in saving money in that case. So the unit might be $1000 a month but each person that rents that unit at the same time is charged $1000 a month. So the landlord is doubling their income for the unit when two tenants are sharing that unit. It's kind of a dick move but some do that just because they can and you can't do a damn thing about it. All you can do is leave.


RickB-Astoria

Frankly, I don't think I am alone in this world in not being particularly fond of living with roommates especially if they are complete and total strangers.

5839

Rick over time I've noticed that the threads you're involved in follow a predictable pattern: OP has an issue; OP gets a few pertinent comments; Rick arrives to dispense exaggerations and doomsday scenarios; others protest, and provide examples of how they have successfully navigated similar life and career challenges; Rick notes the ways in which these solutions will not work for Rick personally.
So I'd like to propose a long-term solution: Rick, we will all concede that nothing that has ever worked for any of us will work for you. Now you can finally stop turning every thread into another Why Rick Can't Succeed as an Adult essay, because we all agree with you.

RickB-Astoria

5839, this is what I started.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Basicly, forget retiring at 67. Generally speaking, the regular retirement age only assumes you go to college for one career and you work in that one career for the next 40-45 years. Luckily, architecture is a career that you can continue to well into your 80s and frequently, architects do continue to work well past their 80s so you can still milk a good 30 years out of this profession even with a pay setback. Recalculate your retirement to about 85-95. you might slow down some in those later years but still make it alright. Changing careers ALWAYS results in some duration of a pay setback if you been in one for any length of time already.

---------------------------------------------------------------------


5839

As I said: "... Rick arrives to dispense exaggerations and doomsday scenarios; others protest, and provide examples of how they have successfully navigated similar life and career challenges..."

What you wrote is full of incorrect assumptions. Changing careers does not always result in some duration of pay setback. Most people in most college majors have multiple careers in their working life, and many of them manage comfortable retirements at reasonable ages. There are only a handful of majors in which the majority of grads are still in that career 10 years later (accounting, education, engineering), and neither architecture nor computer science are one of them. It's not necessary to work in one career for 40-45 years in order to retire well. Your entire post is full of misunderstandings, all of which can be proven to be incorrect, both with statistics and real-life examples. Nobody's arguing that you, Richard Balkins, will be able to retire comfortably. You have more than adequately demonstrated over a decade of threads that you have so many exacting personal preferences and other obstacles that you will never be able to get or hold a well-paying job, you don't have even the most rudimentary working knowledge of best practices with personal finances, and you will probably end up supported by tax payers in your old age, in public housing. But the things holding you back don't hold back 99.9999% of others - so hearing your reasons for your lack of success, over and over and over and over, is just not relevant or useful.

RickB-Astoria

What was meant by that above? It is unlikely someone would switch from a computer science field to architecture IF they are making a $100K or more a year at this time. It would be a big step backwards financially. Jobs for computer science majors are all over the place from dismal to fantastic. I am suspecting the OP is not making fantastic income to be contemplating leaving computer science for architecture. Architecture jobs are pretty much the same as it was 10 years ago except if you add about $15K to what was normal pay 10-15 years ago and usual crescendo is around $75K for most regardless of years. If one goes to a bigger firm or start their own, they could make $100K+ a year. Earning over $250K a year in salary is not that common for architectural services. Businesses have to take form in something more than just an architectural service providing business. 

When I said that when you are switching careers, you're accruing a massive student loan debt for a new degree. We are looking at typically $100K in loans, marginal salaries for years. Current trend shows a skyrocketing housing costs. Lets not forget that there is only 31 years until the OP is 67. To make up for the loss in lifetime earning compared to what he would be in computer science in a normative environment at age 67 for collecting full retirement benefits, it is unlikely he or she will make up what you would from a 45 year career in architecture, either. Lets also assume the OP is likely to be working part-time from 67 onward to when he or she decides to stop working in architecture altogether. That's probably put him close to about 80+ years of age. That's taking into account for establishing a meaningful amount of retirement savings/investments, etc.


5839

Again: filled with wrong assumptions. Period.

Non Sequitur

Ricky, there are not enough face-palming memes on the internet to express how face-palming your responses above are.

threeohdoor

That's why God gave us looping animation. Infinite face-palming for infinite idiocy.

RickB-Astoria

Most people have to work ~5 (+/- ~2 years) years to move up each step from fresh out of college graduate to architecture staff I to II to II and up the basic ladder to principal unless they get licensed and set up their own firm. There is probably 5-7 steps to a principal in a common architectural firm structure which is basically a carbon copy of the typical firm structure that AIA publishes in their many publications including the AHPP. You don't get increase pay by the year. It's more by the position role. You might get a slight increase in pay only for inflation adjustments in any given position role. Stay in a particular position for long, your pay is basically stagnant aside from inflation adjustment. You got to go up the firm's corporate ladder to get better pay. Then it basically plateaus with the major differences being in bonuses and how well you and the firm did that year. N.S., you started architecture when you graduated from high school. 

If he starts now, he's starting where you were when you started. Lets say you retire at 67. He or she would have to work longer and past 67 to earn what you would have earned in lifetime earnings and lets account for inflation. You are already 15+ years into architecture. He is at 0 years in... in every account. Nothing related to architecture for education. Lets see.... 83 to 85 isn't a far off prediction. He has to earn more than what you'd earn by 67 because of inflation. Maybe, he doesn't really have to save as much but leaving a nest egg for his or her children wouldn't be bad. The longer he/she works and able to work and less time from when he or she is not able to work and when he/she passes on would mean more income in and less money spent on medical. Of course, you can die because you quit working and watching TV and not being active and a recluse or you keep going until you're time is up.

You might not work as hard in architecture in the later years but lets not forget that this field.... architecture, goes through boom/bust cycles. Remember the recession that we were neck deep in 10 years ago?!? This does effect retirement. I am taking that into consideration as we'll be visiting those again at least two or three times if not more.

Bench

^ ^ So much wrong with this, its not even really possible to start.

Non Sequitur

Bench, welcome to the show.

Bench

yayyyyyy....?

Formerlyunknown

I always wonder whether he does this with other professions' forums too. He thinks that delivering paperwork for an architect once, and doing a few hours of research for another once, qualify him to lecture architects who actually operate firms on how our firms operate and when and to whom we'll be giving raises. I figure that in the moments when he's not here, he's on the hardware store owners' forum telling them how many hose nozzles to order, and on the school principals' site telling them what policies to implement, and teaching safety to the cereal factory workers....

threeohdoor

An interesting tell is how he likes to point back to "official guidelines" (ie - the AIA's idea of firm structure) and then projects his ideas onto them. Quite an interesting tactic in bs-ing. Know just enough to be able to point to a known quantity, but not enough to be able to lend any meaningful quality. Of course, on a forum populated by (mostly) professionals, that level of bs-ing can't be successful.

RickB-Astoria

Bench, do you seriously think the OP can just get an Arch degree and demand $100K a year because a person with a computer science degree and 15 years education & experience can earn that much? If the person is applying for an architecture position, yeah. If the person was being hired for computer software development and IT work then maybe. 

In my opinion, you would pay the OP after he gets an arch degree the same pay as you would pay a 23 year old who just graduated from architecture school with maybe 0-3 years of experience depending on any experienced earned in an architecture office while attending architecture school unless you are hiring the OP for an IT position.

Bench

Literally no one described that.

How are those exams going?

Formerlyunknown

First of all, we don't typically pay a 36 year old with prior career experience the same as a 23 year old who just graduated.

Secondly, nobody is saying that he would or would not earn the same amount as where he left off in a previous career.
We don't even know what he was making in a previous career.  For all we know he might have a computer science "career" that's about as real and successful as yours is.  The point is that by the time *most* people get to age 36, they already have some investment strategy going on, and they have an emergency fund, and all the other things that grownups have - so switching gears and careers isn't usually the disaster you're making it out to be. If you knew anything about value investing you'd understand that the normal cycle of economic downturns and even recessions is a good thing in some respects, at nearly every point in your career (though if it happens the year you were planning to retire it might influence you to hold off.) Your assumptions are all tying eventual retirement ability much, much too directly to salary at any given point. It doesn't work that way - or at least it shouldn't, for anyone with any financial literacy.

Also you're looking at things from your sheltered, childish existence, where things like housing costs during grad school would be a major factor precisely because you currently live for free. Most people are already living like grownups when they go to grad school - so they already have housing costs and other living expenses, whether they're working or they're in grad school - it's not a huge added-on expense that they wouldn't have anyway.

And you're looking at things again from your own point of view when you keep warning of massive student loans. You had massive student loans because you're a poor student. Depending on the M.Arch program and the student, grad school can cost anywhere from zero on up.

Aren't there things you could give advice about somewhere, that are things you actually know?  Toy robot forum maybe?

RickB-Astoria

Why would you pay a 36 year old differently? Wouldn't that be age discrimination basing pay on age? Housing is a factor if you have to move or not move because you have to quit your job to go to architecture school full-time.

RickB-Astoria

Most people only have one source of income and buying ETFs (stocks) isn't something people will necessarily start doing until maybe their mid-30s. If they do, it might give them a trickle of dividends. Some might use other investment means but these are trickle and not exactly something you can draw from and use when you need to. In the last recession, I've heard people complaining and whining about not being able to get employment for 6 months to over a year. The unemployment is paltry and only lasts so long. These things do wipe out so called "emergency funds" in a matter of months. Often, you don't have enough time to build up the funds to do much other than delay you getting kicked out to the streets. Eventually, you do become homeless. If you are lucky, you might get a job to just keep from relocating from an apartment to a cardboard box. Sadly, some actually had become homeless. Some never returned to architecture.

Non Sequitur

See previous dozen or so of posts reminding you that you have no clue.

Formerlyunknown

I wouldn't pay someone a higher salary because of their age. I would pay them a higher salary because they've had a previous professional career. When people are fresh out of college, it isn't just technical knowledge that they're not up to speed on - it's the whole professional world. I would pay someone like you about the same as a 23 year old fresh out of school, because you've had zero work-world experience. Career-switchers are almost always more useful than those fresh out with their bachelors. It's not age-related at all, it's based on what's going to have to go into the person's formal and informal training, how much supervision they're going to need, and how useful they're going to be. 

 With someone like a new grad or you, "supervision" isn't just going to mean making sure that your technical work is sound and thorough, but keeping a close eye and probably a rein on you in your interpersonal relationships with coworkers, your contact with clients, etc. That all takes a lot more of others' time and effort, that a person who has already had a career doesn't usually need as much of, if any.

As for your comments about investments:  you're entirely missing the point, and you're so completely and ridiculously illiterate on the subject that I'd have to write a book for you here.  It would probably be better if you'd just go read one!

archi_dude

Rick, I'm not going to touch upon your comments about how landlords charge double rents to each individual in a unit so its impossible to save money with roommates, that just proves you've never attempted to rent a place before on your own. Regardless, lets make this a positive. Bo
do you think an individual who would like to make a career change avoid working into their 80's?

archi_dude

*How do you

RickB-Astoria

All you have to judge me on is this forum? You make a point on interpersonal relationship with coworkers. The thing is, people act like total dicks when they are hiding behind anonymity where they are not held accountable kind of like yourself and especially like some people on this forum, but when they are in person with other people like coworkers and bosses, there is a difference in behavior including this asshole writing to you. I can see your point in hiring someone because they have a prior career. However, it depends on that experience and how they can translate that experience into the assigned position in an architecture firm. You don't know about my experience in computer software development / video game development other than a very VERY limited scope of discussion. 

You don't know about all my employment or interpersonal relationship with workers or clients. The reason for that is I don't discuss those things with other people. Social contract of non-disclosure. When it comes to clients, I try to avoid getting too personal with them. I work with residential clients after all for over a decade. I'd rather work with academic institutions and similar clientele over residential because I don't have to get into the personal and even private aspect of their lives. It is easier for people to talk about needs of classroom space and function requirements then something like how they want the bedroom designed. Ok, I know some people can be overly open about it that it can feel disturbing and clients where it would be very difficult to talk about such to a person whom they barely know. Unless you literally grew up together, in school, and so forth, it can be quite challenging. 

I've done numerous computer IT repair work as well over the years. Oh the "house calls" for computer repair. Every time, the goal is to be courteous, respectful, and not get too personal and where possible, not be there any longer than I need to be. It's Get the job done, get paid, and get out of there as soon as possible. Building design services, however, isn't so much of getting out of there as soon as possible but not to overstay the welcome and get the information needed to perform the services and the back and forth dialogue with the client and the reviewing. Again, it isn't to get too buddy buddy with the client while keeping a professional 'distance' yet also try to not convey a too impersonal and uncaring feel. Each client is different. So its more art then science in that respect.

RickB-Astoria

archidude, One option is going to switch to a career with a generally higher payout over a 10, 20, and 30 year outlook. Maybe.... be a corporate lawyer. You can make big bucks there. Of course, you have to have a passion for it and aptitude. It's not always easy stuff and can be stressful. There usually is an initial setback when you been in a career long enough to be above entry level. The OP's field tends to have a better payout over 15 years then architecture. It's not guaranteed though. He could have a sucky pay but likely it would be a step back before he would make more than he current makes or would make in 5 years.

archi_dude

Anything else he might be able to do to offset that then? Maybe some alternatives to entry that dont involve a masters?

RickB-Astoria

One factor the OP maybe leaving computer science field is he or she is becoming obsolete for the workplace and his or her skill set is obsolete. Relearning how to program in computer language is not a small task. Hell, you can still design buildings with paper and pencil/pen, today. You can do that even in 20 years as long as building departments accepts physical plans. You could just scan each sheet and make a PDF or any future replacement of PDF out of those sheets and submit digitally... that way.... too. It is not that tall of order. Law.... same thing. You don't need to spend a couple full-time years in learning a computer programming language every half decade just to remain relevant. Computer programming is largely for the youngins' these days. 

It's transitioning to a managerial/director role that the OP has to transition to in order to stay in the IT field or shift towards non-programming IT management role. The pay would probably be better.

I'm not sure all the options. Project management would be a direction that would be useful inside and outside of computer field and architecture. I think there are some programs out there where that is good. Doesn't require a masters degree. Could use in virtually..... everywhere.


Non Sequitur

Balkins, remember above when we all told you you have no idea what you're talking/writing about? Yeah, that point still remains very relevant.

RickB-Astoria

Project management is more widely used and useful across occupations than your ability to draw a building. I've been project managing and literally doing the work of every role in software development since the late 1980s which by the way includes project management. There was forms of project management before the standardization with PMBOK.

Non Sequitur

Project managers who cannot draw/design buildings are terrible managers. You should know this, but you don't because you've not had enough experience.

kjdt

Rick when the 80s ended you were 8 years old.  And on the software development forums that you also plague you've been called out constantly for 15+ years, for behavior similar to what you pull here: copy-pasting other's programs and pretending your wrote them; vastly exaggerating your experience and knowledge; pretending to have been running a business since age 4, making resolutions and goals and promises but failing to follow through on any ever. Nobody on any of them believes that you've ever done any software development.

Recently on a software-related forum you stated "I have a lot of work ahead for my own project(s) and then raising funds for them in the near future. Lots of work and not much time to slack", and recently on this architecture forum you said you were preparing to take the ARE. So why are you spending all your time slacking and procrastinating again? Go actually accomplish one of those things, for the first time ever.

RickB-Astoria

You are missing my point. Project managers are project managers. Architects are architects. There are people who are both. Being able to draw or design buildings is nice and would be useful in an architect office as an "Architectural Project Manager". However, project management itself isn't about drawing buildings itself. They are not necessarily the project architect/designer. Project management isn't necessarily limited to architecture. What you are talking about is useful occupational field specific skills that would be beneficial in the architectural work setting. It is good that a project manager in software development knows something about the software development process, programming and fundamental computer science. Likewise, it would be good for project managers to know some skills like architectural design, the design process, the project process as a whole from pre-design to post-construction, etc.The core skill in project management is non-occupational field specific. You are talking about occupational field specific skills.

Non Sequitur

I'm talking specifically about your specific lack of experience in every conceivable subject you've mentioned above.

BulgarBlogger

Some of the keys to good project management are: good leadership; knowing how to use your resources; knowing your contractual obligations and limitations; knowing how to make your client happy while sticking to the contractual terms and conditions; and ultimately making sure that are you are aware of how time spent translates into profit. Bad project managers consistently have projects that don't make any money, UNLESS the projects they manage are purposefully under-budgeted for marketing reasons in which case the project manager has to control the "project loss" visa vis the profits that are coming out from the other "less glamorous" jobs that make the profit.

RickB-Astoria

kjdt, I have not set a precise deadline on when I will complete the ARE nor exactly when I would take the first exam. You are looking at obsolete forum on a Commodore forum which by the way was a USENET newsgroup which you don't know anything about the conversation or my standing with those individuals. I started learning to program around 4 years old and software development from 1987/88 to the 1990s. Back in those days, I would be using aliases not my real name. It wasn't the one you maybe thinking of because I didn't use that until around 1999/2000 time frame and if anything from a dial-up BBS in the late 1990s. Publishing was interesting to say the least. 6-7 years old and publishing software via mail-order and use of a BBS system and then there was diskmags out there. There is still plenty of stuff out there that is in circulation where there is no knowledge of who did what. Commodore 64 wasn't the only computer I programmed for even into the 1990s. Aliases wouldn't be the same, either. You know of pen names.... right?

RickB-Astoria

"Some of the keys to good project management are: good leadership; knowing how to use your resources; knowing your contractual obligations and limitations; knowing how to make your client happy while sticking to the contractual terms and conditions; and ultimately making sure that are you are aware of how time spent translates into profit. Bad project managers consistently have projects that don't make any money, UNLESS the projects they manage are purposefully under-budgeted for marketing reasons in which case the project manager has to control the "project loss" visa vis the profits that are coming out from the other "less glamorous" jobs that make the profit."

Thank You BulgarBlogger. All of which does not explicitly mean having good architectural design skills. Not that it can't help. 

kjdt

No, I'm looking at fairly recent instances. Your quote above about "not much time for slacking" is only a few weeks old. Also this, from someone annoyed at you in one of your parallel universes, is only months old: "I dont think i will every forget that you never managed to program anything. I wish i got a penny for each of your walls of text though." Substitute "accomplish" for "program" and it exactly sums up your track record here too, and on pretty much any forum on which you've ever been active, under any name.  Remember less talk, more action? Start now.  It's the only way you're ever going to gain any credibility anywhere.

RickB-Astoria

N.S., if I were to explain everything I know about any of those subjects, this forum would crash because it would run out of memory. I think there is a technical limit of the number of characters in a single post or comment.

BulgarBlogger

No- a project manager doesn't have to be a good designer. However, I agree that knowing a little (or a lot) about the design process would help better inform the financial management. When firms go in to put together a proposal for services, they absolutely must know how much they can slim down their fee in order to be competitive. So a complex project on a tight budget is better off having more-experienced staff so that in theory, while the cost of production is higher, the quality increases while production time decreases.

RickB-Astoria

I have not disagreed with that. I am in total agreement there. I think some of the nick picking that's going on here is misreading and making noise for noise sake.

RickB-Astoria

kjdt, I found the one thing you quoted at the moment. I'm the owner of "Reflected Light Entertainment" and therefore the projects of the business, it is entirely up to me when I decide to crowdfund and when to release the software project. The main project is probably going to be far larger than Microsoft Windows operating system. It might even be multi-terabytes in size and so far I'm doing everything in connection with that project by myself alone not some glorious team of 1000+ employees. Now, the other comment, I haven't tracked it down yet. 

However, this - "And on the software development forums that you also plague you've been called out constantly for 15+ years, for behavior similar to what you pull here: copy-pasting other's programs and pretending your wrote them" is referring to references from people who don't know or would know because aliases were used and they weren't ever customers. A number of them are software pirates/crackers. Some were just into the demo scene. 

The Commodore 8 bit platform had a user base of over 6 million active users worldwide in those days. Possibly over 10 Million considering there were over 22 million Commodore 64 computers. Then you had all those other computer platforms. These all amount to a user base of over 100 MILLION worldwide by 1990. If you are not using your real name, think about it. You don't think a 6 to 9 year old would be using his real name... would you? You'd use a pen name.... a pseudonym. Maybe multiple.

Rick, I'm reposting something I wrote to you a few months ago. Please start that thread ... 

"You should start a new thread for [providing information]. Call it the 'Uncle Ricky's Data Upload to get your Mind Blown' thread. People could come to you for advice and you could dispense all the data you need to in order to help them out. Plus it would be consolidated for anyone that might come along in the future to find and browse. And you'd only have to provide one universal disclaimer at the top of the thread to cover everything."

BulgarBlogger

Rick- know that show "silicon valley?"

Threesleeve

There was a thread on one of the other old architecture forums, called "Balkins Containment Boom". He agreed to keep all his conversations in there, then only lasted about 4 days before he was oozing all over the rest of the threads again.

RickB-Astoria

BB, yeah. There's certain 'truths' to the show and "sillycon valley".

RickB-Astoria

threesleeve, is the forum you are talking about that the forum that got hacked by some hackers shortly before it was completely shut down?

RickB-Astoria

F--- it, I'm done with this track of discussion which has gone completely off the rails.

sameolddoctor
Are you stupid?
Nov 24, 19 10:05 pm
SneakyPete

Let's pretend, for the moment, the answer is yes. What next?

Dokuser

Next question: Who hurt you? Haha I'm just joking, but in all honesty, what makes you want to switch fields?

Menona

No.  Don't do it.

Nov 25, 19 12:42 pm
Dokuser

Look into computational design maybe

Nov 26, 19 4:06 pm

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