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license in usa

Koww

Among architects, does anyone care what state you get initially get licensed? bc some have more loose requirements.

 
Oct 14, 19 6:23 pm
Chad Miller

Short answer, no one cares.  

The test for architectural licensture is the same in every state.  A few states will have an additional test due to unique conditions (FL, CA, NY,  I think).  I could be incorrect about the states requiring an additional exam.  

If you graduated from an accredited architectural program then once you obtain your first state license you can become licensed in any state by simply applying and paying the fee with no additional testing (except for the states listed above of course).  

As far as I know if you do not have an accredited architectural degree  then once you finish a longer IDP process you will only be licensed in the state you took your exam in.  If you want to become licensed in another state you have to replete your IDP over again for that state.    The years of IDP differ depending on your education, experience, and state you're applying to.  However I believe it's a minimum of ten years per state license. I think only 14 states allow you to obtain an architectural license without attending an accredited architectural program.  




Oct 14, 19 7:05 pm

No, within reason. It might look weird if you work for someone who does all their work in California and you're getting your license in West Virginia or something. Aside from that, if you are looking to later get reciprocity in another state you might run into some issues, but it's hard to say exactly without knowing more about your situation. 

Oct 14, 19 7:05 pm
atelier nobody

Everyday Architect: "if you are looking to later get reciprocity in another state you might run into some issues"

THIS^

I got my license without a degree, in a state where that still works (CA), and reciprocity requirements are different in just about every state, with some states where I can't get reciprocity at all.

Oct 15, 19 1:17 pm
Chad Miller

Do you mean without an architectural degree or any degree?


atelier nobody

I have a humanities degree, but it wouldn't have made a difference if I didn't (or only a small difference - an unrelated degree is worth 6 mos credit, IIRC).

This is why I hinted that more information would be useful to understanding the OP's particular situation. I'm not trying to imply this is what you were trying to achieve atelier nobody, but your situation is a good example of how you can't really get around the base requirements in some jurisdictions just because you got a license somewhere else. 

IIRC, Ricky looked into this at one point because the thought was he could get licensed in CA, or even WA(?), without an accredited architecture degree, and then get licensed in OR through reciprocity. Turns out OR still wouldn't allow him to get a license without the degree. I may be wrong on the details though.

atelier nobody

EA - I just wanted to give a concrete example of what you meant by needing more information. Also, you are correct about OR - no degree, no reciprocity.

thatsthat

My license is through NY (no additional exams needed btw) and NY still allows experience in lieu of a professional degree as well. I'm nervous about eventually needing reciprocity as I have a pre-professional but got the rest of my credits towards licensure through experience. :-/

Chad Miller

In your situation you do not have reciprocity and you license is only good in NY.

atelier nobody

thatsthat - There is now a way for us non-degree guys to get NCARB certified. I believe (but I could be wrong) that with NCARB we'd be golden in every state.

https://www.ncarb.org/blog/explore-our-education-alternative-ncarb-certification-0

Chad Miller

Sounds like you need to have an undergrad degree in architecture to qualify. Still that's really nice!

thatsthat

atelier nobody - Yep! I looked at this a few years ago, but for me personally, it's a lot of money for something that I might need, but don't need right now. I think you have to check with the state you plan to move to to make sure they would even accept this path. I don't think every state accepts it.  Idk about you, but I have family in another state, and it would be nice to be able to practice there if I ever need to move one day. 

Chad Miller

You're right TT, I just read that not all jurisdictions accept the method linked above. Bummer.

RickB-Astoria

Oregon may still allow via the BEA program but plain ol' reciprocity method or initial registration methods.... is a flat out no. I have to check again to verify that since there has been some time including NCARB changes so who knows. Don't take anything I said above as verified as current.

RickB-Astoria

I remember that Oregon administrative rules of the architect board accepted the BEA but with NCARB changes that replaced the old BEA/BEFA program, it will be necessary to check with the new NCARB Certification's Education Alternative. I know they generally accept people with NCARB Certification so it might be something to look into.

RickB-Astoria

Per NCARB site: https://www.ncarb.org/get-licensed/licensing-requirements-tool

Click on Oregon and click on reciprocity: It does indicate that "An NCARB Certificate granted through the Education Alternative is accepted". HOWEVER, if you want to get licensed in Oregon, DO check and verify. It may change and subject to change by the time you are ready to do that.


Archlandia

I called NCARB about six months ago and they said that with an NCARB certificate that reciprocity from another state into Oregon without a NAAB accredited degree is a matter of applying for reciprocity and "there would be no issues" ... however, I believe there is a disconnect with the Oregon board and NCARB. From what I remember, when I talked to the Oregon board, the answer I got was "reviewed on a case-by-case basis".

atelier nobody

In my experience, NCARB has never been up-to-date or correct about all states' requirements.

tintt

Yes it matters. NCARB summarizes all here. https://www.ncarb.org/get-lice...

Oct 15, 19 3:01 pm
Chad Miller

It really only matters if you don't have an accredited degree.

SpontaneousCombustion

It depends on what you mean by "does anyone care". 

If you're asking if there's some sort of prestige associated with originally getting licensed in one state vs. another:  then no, not at all.  Most other architects are never going to even know or ask in which state you were initially licensed.  

If you mean is having a license in any state good enough, for job hunting purposes in any other state, or for seniority in a firm or something like that:  it depends on the firm, and what kind of work they do.  If they're looking for a licensed architect simply because they feel that having a license is evidence of some level of experience and/or competency, then any state's license is as good as any other.  But if they do public projects in a state with QBS (where they get points taken off in the selection process for each team member who is missing specific credentials) then it matters a lot that you have a license in the applicable state(s).  Or if they want to be able to call you "Project Architect" or some other protected title, then you need a license in the state(s) where they practice.  Or if you're on the succession track to partnership, or if you're in some role in a non-architect-owned company where you need to be able to stamp drawings, or whatever...  then it may matter tremendously that you are licensed (or able to get reciprocity) in that state.

If you mean does any state's license automatically make you eligible for reciprocity in any other state: as others have said above, in most cases no, you need to meet each individual state's rules.

Oct 15, 19 4:15 pm
Chad Miller

To be fair though if you graduated with an accredited degree in architecture, finished your IDP, and passed the ARE you gain reciprocity in all 50 states.

Threesleeve

Not necessarily. There are lots of types of experience and settings that count toward IDP/AXP as far as NCARB is concerned, but don't necessarily count toward certain states' requirements. I had to wait to get reciprocity in NY, and submit additional work experience, even when I already had an NCARB certificate, licenses in 2 states, an M.Arch from an NAAB-accredited school, had completed IDP and the ARE - because some of the experience I had used to satisfy IDP was partially completed during my student years, and NY doesn't accept that. There are states where an NCARB certificate pretty much gets you rubber-stamp-reciprocity with no second glance, and others where it's not a guarantee that state-specific rules still won't trip you up when they look at your NCARB record, because they have different minimum IDP/AXP durations, different allowed training settings, different starting points, etc.

Chad Miller

Good point. I forgot about the student IDP/AXP.

midlander

if there isn't any compelling reason to license in your current state, I'd recommend looking into the annual continuing education requirement and renewal fees, and go for somewhere that keeps both to a minimum. simplify your future life.

Oct 16, 19 12:39 pm

Would be interesting to hear more about the OP's situation and why they are asking the question.

Oct 16, 19 2:25 pm
BulgarBlogger

It doesn't matter if you're not signing and sealing anything. 

Oct 16, 19 2:54 pm
Chad Miller

What an asinine comment.

BulgarBlogger

asinine or not- true. What the hell do I care what state you are registered in if am signing and sealing your work? As long as your follow the respective codes and zoning regulations of the state in which the project is located- you're just a hired hand.

Oct 16, 19 6:04 pm
Chad Miller

Sigh, spoken like someone who just works in production . . .

atelier nobody

The firm I was at when I got my license gave me a healthy bonus and raise, despite my not signing drawings. My current job requires me to be licensed, even though I don't sign drawings. But, y'know, you do you...

Chad Miller

Same here. Also once licensed my work and bio was included in proposals.

BulgarBlogger

What practical reason do you have to be licensed in other states, unless you are signing and sealing drawings? I'll gice you an example: I'm licensed in NYS; I can easily get a reciprocal license in NJ. I don't know anything about the code, zoning regulations, or permitting in NJ, but NY has reciprocal licensure agreements with NJ anyway. The point I am making is that licensed or not, if you're working for a firm in which you are not signing and sealing drawings, being licensed in multiple states means nothing unless you know HOW to practice in those states.

BulgarBlogger

What practical reason do you have to be licensed in other states, unless you are signing and sealing drawings? I'll gice you an example: I'm licensed in NYS; I can easily get a reciprocal license in NJ. I don't know anything about the code, zoning regulations, or permitting in NJ, but NY has reciprocal licensure agreements with NJ anyway. The point I am making is that licensed or not, if you're working for a firm in which you are not signing and sealing drawings, being licensed in multiple states means nothing unless you know HOW to practice in those states.

BulgarBlogger

Also- I disagree with your statement about someone being in production. Designers are in this position all the time, especially in big corporate firms. They let the technical department deal with all the permitting issues. However, I absolutely agree with your other point: getting licensed in multiple states only looks good on a resume, but I said, unless you're the one taking responsibility for the work, it is meaningless.

SpontaneousCombustion

The state where we do most of our work has a "quality-based selection" (QBS) protocol for publicly-funded projects, with a point system that gives or takes away points based partly on the credentials of the teams presented in the proposals. We do a lot of those types of projects, and typically the licenses and certifications of all the architects and consultants take up many pages of each proposal. We have staff who are unlicensed or who can't get reciprocity here because of not having an accredited degree, but they're pretty much limited to behind-the-scenes roles, because we can't have any of the client-facing people who have to be named in the proposal (like project managers, project architects, lead designers, or even spec writers or various types of project-specific specialists) who aren't licensed in this state.

BulgarBlogger

I would bet the majority of architects do not do publicly-funded work. My statement is still valid for privately-funded projects.

Chad Miller

This can be true however I've seen a lot of privately funded projects require anyone on the design team to be licensed.

Chad Miller

Personally I could not see the point in pursuing a degree in architecture and not becoming licensed. It's a waste of time, talent, opportunities, and personal finical gain. Keep in mind I'm coming from the viewpoint of working in small to medium sized firms where team members do a bit of everything, including signing drawings.

BulgarBlogger

Chad Miller- I agree on a personal level. However, practically, if I am the principal of a firm, I'm the only one who is stamping drawings. Whether my team is licensed or not, I don't really care as long as they are affording me the same standard of care I would take if I did the work on my own.

Practically, isn't there some incentive for a firm to have more licensed architects on staff? I've heard that it can lower the insurance premiums you pay ... but I don't have any direct knowledge of this to know if it's true. There was at least one news article from a while back about how a firm was being sued because the client understood that licensed architects were working on their project when in fact most of the staff was unlicensed. That is arguably more a case of misrepresentation than one of need for staff to be licensed though ... but having the licensed staff would have avoided it altogether. I'll see if I can dig up the article.

Case wasn't exactly as I described above but here are some references...

Archinect write up: https://archinect.com/news/article/128095662/college-wins-5-5mm-lawsuit-against-firm-for-use-of-unlicensed-architects (link to original article questionable). 

Write-up on the case in an ABA newsletter (see pages 5-6): https://www.americanbar.org/content/dam/aba/publications/under_construction/UnderConst_v17n3_win2016.pdf

Chad Miller

With all the protesting I'm starting to think that Bubbles isn't licensed and / or can't become licensed.

Threesleeve

Everyday Architect: in most cases insurance costs rise when a firm has more licensed staff - because each licensed person is someone who can be out in the field implementing independent judgment. The firm's worker's comp also rises for each licensed person (I don't know if it's the same in all regions, but here it more than doubles). Licensed professionals are categorized differently than unlicensed drafter/production staff, because they have a higher rate of job-related accidents/illnesses - probably partly because they're out in the field more, and also because statistically they're older, on average, as a group.

These increased costs aren't really so huge that they'd likely be much incentive for a firm to want to keep people from getting licensed though.  And if you're a firm that heeds your insurance company's advice, you're not supposed to ever send unlicensed people to a job site unsupervised, or even allow them to attend any meetings on their own during bidding or CA, so deciding not to get a license can drastically limit what you can do in many firms, and your perceived usefulness. 

BulgarBlogger

I am licensed in NYS, CA, HI

Bloopox

3Sleeve - yes the worker's comp assigned risk rates vary by state, and in some states by metro region. But most states all use the same class codes. A licensed architect is class 8601, and most firms put all the unlicensed people in 8603 no matter what their title is.  That category includes all sorts of clerical workers including CAD and other technical office staff, and pretty much anything you'd find in an architecture firm that's "not otherwise categorized". 8603 is considered very low risk, and 8601 is much higher - but nowhere near as high as in something like a manufacturing, agricultural, or driving occupation. Picking a random state (WV) an unlicensed architecture staff person costs the employer $0.13 in worker's comp for every $100 in earnings, while the architect costs the employer $0.49 per $100. It works similarly for the firm's E&O insurance - the insurer's rates are based on risk class and the architect's role is usually considered to pose more risk to the firm.

Thanks for the input Threesleeve and Bloopox. It seems counter intuitive though that a licensed professional doing the work that they are licensed to do is more risky than having an unlicensed person doing that same work. I supposed that is probably the reasoning behind the insurance provider's advice that unlicensed personnel are not to do that work unsupervised though.

RickB-Astoria

Threesleeve, that will be true for unlicensed employees. Unlicensed business partners who may make design decisions (albeit on exempt buildings) would likely have a comparable higher insurance rate comparable to licensed architects (especially those in partner level). Of course, it really is the role and degree of control, independent judgment, etc. Unlicensed employees are usually protected from being directly sued for tort or negligence as that would rest on the owners of the business/firm. Hence the lower rates. Traditional court rulings where employers (business owners) are responsible for the employees... that kind of stuff. 

This really becomes a different matter when the unlicensed person IS an owner, co-owner (partner in the firm) and where under the licensing law is actively practicing as a designer of responsible charge with designing buildings exempt from requiring an architect to design. 

In MOST situations, unlicensed persons working for an architectural firm are NOT in the ownership level of the firm... in other words... not business owners or business partners, members of a firm that is a LLC, shareholder/board of director of a corporate firm.

Chad Miller

Interesting information!

Chad Miller

So Bubbles, I take it you sign drawings in all three states you're licensed in? Are you a partner?

RickB-Astoria

E_A, the standard rule of thumb is that unlicensed EMPLOYEES are not legally responsible... the employer (owner(s) of the business) is. They are usually not legally able to be a target of a lawsuit on matters of tort, negligence, etc. Lawyers may name them but they usually by statutory laws and court precedence are not able to be held lawfully responsible for a variety of reasons any competent lawyer would clear them from the lawsuit at the hearing stage. There are situations where an UNLICENSED person would be having a similar role and capacity as a licensed architect with connection to projects and would be held at the higher insurance rate. The role they have in the company and the nature of their duties will be factors that the insurance companies will look at with regards to insurance. If they are practicing like a full fledge building designer with full independence and responsible charge then yeah.... I think the insurance company would charge a higher rate than an intern whose role might be windows and door details with regular supervision and oversight control of the architect.

RickB-Astoria

Regarding Worker's Compensation insurance, I would be classified as 8601 as a building designer but my classification maybe different when working for an architect. The workers compensation insurance classification does not particularly look at licensure status as to the classification category.Other insurances may use the NAICS which again does not really pertain to the state laws and licensing. It's like this, if it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck, it's a duck as far as the insurance company is concern for classification and rates.

RickB-Astoria

"They are usually not legally able to be a target of a lawsuit on matters of tort, negligence, etc."--- okay.... we can scratch that sentence out. The point is, generally, they can't be held responsible when the legal responsibility is to be held with the employer. The higher rates on the owners of a firm is largely because THEY are the targets of legal matters when they do exists. If you are a target of lawyers, you are more exposed and held liable.

Bench

Rick. This is not about the finer points of what an unlicensed person can do.

RickB-Astoria

True. However, I was pointing out situations where the unlicensed person maybe held under a similar insurance rates as an architect in a similar scale practice. I know it gets more complex and nuance in reality.

I do agree where typically an unlicensed person is closer to clerical and drafting vs architectural/engineering/building design consultant work even though their work contributes to the architectural/engineering/building design project.

BulgarBlogger

Unless the contract explicitly stated (or required) that all staff be licensed, as long as the firm is legally offering architectural services and there is a licensed professional on staff taking responsibility for the drawings, then the client has no basis to sue. But that's a separate topic.

Oct 17, 19 1:54 pm

You can read about the suit in the links I provided.

BulgarBlogger

The issue still is that it really does not matter who is licensed or not, if only the principal is singing and sealing the drawings. I would love it if the project architects were required to sign and seal their own work in conjunction with the principal, but that gets complicated. 

Oct 17, 19 1:56 pm

My point is that I think it does matter to some extent that staff working on a project is licensed for reasons beyond the singular focus of who is signing and sealing the drawings. Of course, all of this is not really the central issue of the thread.

Koww

More info regarding the question. I have a lot of experience that has to be declared as "Other" setting in some states because my company doesn't officially provide "Architectural services" ... however my understanding is that all these hours can be considered an Architectural setting if the state doesn't care, e.g. California and I can get a license from CA even though I live in another state. I'm trying to find out if I get registered in CA sometime down the line I need to get experience work in a proper Architecture office to satisfy the hours for other state's experience requirements. It's interesting that the title Project Architect requires license in that state. I didn't know that. 

Oct 17, 19 7:46 pm
SpontaneousCombustion

Yes, you could get licensed in a state that will accept your current experience, and then get licensed in your own state sometime in the future when you have experience that will satisfy your own state's requirements. Being licensed in CA (or anywhere) might help you in terms of your resume. It won't help you though in being allowed to call yourself an architect in your own state or being allowed to stamp projects that require an architect in your own state. There could be other issues, such as the insurance limitations that others mentioned, and the inability of some firms in some states to use you on some projects - such as the QSB public project scenario.

RickB-Astoria

You don't necessarily have to live in the states where you get initial licensure. In practice, it would be pragmatic to get licensed in the state where you live but if you live near a state border, you maybe able to get licensed initially in that neighboring state and through a process get licensed in the state where you live via reciprocity. This may sometimes require you to get NCARB certified.

RickB-Astoria

In my own situation, I don't have an NAAB accredited degree or architecture degree but I may have some credit that may help to some degree but not a whole lot other than it may help me do the work in a firm. I live on a town that literally borders Oregon and Washington. The state I live in requires an NAAB accredited degree for initial licensure. Washington and the state of California (to the south of Oregon) allows alternate paths to licensure without a bachelors degree of any kind. I can use my community college for a little credit but likely not much. Pragmatically, I can't get licensed in Oregon unless I get the NAAB degree through the initial registration process. Therefore, my option would require me to get initial licensure through experience based path to licensure for the initial license. I have a couple states I can do this with fairly easily provide I get the employment experience. 

Pragmatically, I can choose Washington based on the simple fact that it is geographically just a trip across a river. All I have to do is get the initial license. This would require completion of AXP. I can't get licensed in Oregon via reciprocity by experience without getting NCARB Certified. NCARB Certification allows me an alternate path to NCARB Certification. To do this, I would need to A) get my initial license, B) Attain 3 years of licensure without disciplinary action and such..... and C) I would have to do the NCARB Certificate Portfolio process. Otherwise, I get a B.A. or B.S. degree in architecture and then its just the 2x AXP option. In any case, I have options in this regard. This may change the extent of educational credit that I need but will work just fine. I have these two choices with the NCARB Certification Alternate paths. The Certificate Portfolio process is a lot of paper pushing... in my opinion. 

Anyway, I could choose either Washington or California for initial licensure but also I could even choose Arizona. I could choose California for initial licensure as it maybe easier to get a job IF I'm willing to move to California. I know, I lived there at one time and hadn't had a burning desire to move there. This could be my own inclinations making it harder for me. Each option for initial licensure has its pros and cons. Sometimes, this may make this easier or harder. It is intentionally a pain in the ass because it is intended by design to steer people to follow the standard NAAB accredited degree, AXP, ARE combo path. 

Another problem you may face is these laws, rules, and regs are not set in stone. NCARB licensing and certification process has changed a lot in the last 15 years. The individual states have their own laws, rules and so forth changing to compensate for these change. NCARB has been a change agent in the whole deal and what options are here today are not guaranteed to be here or the same in 10 years. I can't even say if the Education Alternative for NCARB Certification will remain the same in 2030 as it maybe like in 2020 which is not far away. Will Washington or California still have their experienced based path to licensure in 2030 or will it be different and how? These changes can either make it easier or harder or both for you and others.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but California requires completion of AXP or the AXP portfolio to meet experience requirements. Both methods require a minimum amount of time spent in practice setting A. Practice setting A is work done while under direct supervision of an architect for a firm that is engaged in the lawful practice of architecture. NCARB lets the jurisdictions define what lawful practice of architecture is though. Are you saying that CA defines the lawful practice of architecture such that they allow the practice to be done in firms that don’t provide architectural services? I’m not really sure how you’ve found a way around this requirement otherwise. Or do you have enough experience under setting A to meet the minimum requirements already?

atelier nobody

EA - you are correct, CA requires the AXP.

RickB-Astoria

Yes, Candidates have to have completed the AXP/IDP (which includes the AXP Portfolio) or the IAP (Canadian equivalent).

atelier nobody

The California education and/or experience requirements are a little complex (see https://www.cab.ca.gov/act/ccr/title_16/division_2/article_3/section_117.shtml), but, briefly, 1/2 credit is granted for work as, or under, a civil or structural engineer, a general contractor, or a building official, with capped maximums. Teaching in an accredited architecture program is worth a maximum of 1 year credit. Other than those, all work experience must be under a licensed architect. My year and a half in an interior design firm didn’t count, and my 3 years in the building department only counted for 1 year total. There is also a requirement that you have at least 1 full year under a licensed architect, even if stacking your other education and experience “credits” would otherwise add up to the total required.

Experience as an independent unlicensed building designer is very specifically excluded.

RickB-Astoria

I wouldn't be including unlicensed building designer experience. That's for stuff like CPBD not for this. On the other hand, I could go with the state of Washington. This got my attention: http://lawfilesext.leg.wa.gov/biennium/2019-20/Pdf/Bill%20Reports/House/1148-S%20HBR%20FBR%2019.pdf

RickB-Astoria

With this, I can simply begin with the protocols with Washington with my technically existent AXP record and operate under the new rule and this can literally begin the exam process for me without any prescribed wait period other than when I am ready to do so. This really makes things nicer.

RickB-Astoria

Some key notes from House/Senate bill changes in Washington state: 1) those with an accredited architectural degree maybe called "architectural associates". I really don't personally give a sh-t.... I'm a "building designer". 2) Reverses the 9 years of education and/or experience to 8 years. 3) Removal of the term "intern" to.... "structured training program" as a generic way of referring to AXP even if NCARB in the future changes the name of AXP to something else. 4) It is no longer required to get 6 YEARS of experience prior to being able to be enrolled in AXP. 5) ALL applicants for registration can BEGIN taking the exams (ARE) UPON enrollment in a structured training program (AXP). So, technically, I can begin... now. Might require a simple form or whatever submitted to Washington so NCARB can get the AOT (Authorization to Test).

RickB-Astoria

In short, I can theoretically begin taking the exams within the month. Not that I would actually do that quite that soon. Washington board has to kind of get their own shit together.

atelier nobody

You're well on top of it, Rick - it's the OP who seems to need some educating.

RickB-Astoria

The OP and anyone else needing the info. The response isn't strictly about replying to you but others that will likely come across this thread in similar situation.

RickB-Astoria

Everyday_Architect,

While waiting for a meeting, I decided to call OBAE and ask some questions that was brought up. I contacted the Executive Director / Administrator. Yes, today.

With regards to getting licensed in Oregon WITHOUT an architect license, you can not do this via the initial registration approach. Lets say you got licensed in California or Washington by the experienced based path alternative to that of the normally approved education/experience path. You WILL need to get NCARB Certified by Education Alternative paths. Here: https://www.ncarb.org/advance-your-career/ncarb-certificate/get-certified/education-alternative

or more specifically... whichever is more up to date: 

https://www.ncarb.org/sites/default/files/Certification_Guidelines.pdf

If you get NCARB Certified by ANY of the pathways by NCARB and have a completed AXP record, pass the ARE. You will then need to complete the registration by reciprocity, pass the Jurispudence exam (which should be EASY) and so forth. 

There is a pathway. This is just for information sake.

PLEASE NOTE: IT IS ALWAYS SUBJECT TO CHANGE SO VERIFY WITH THE BOARD BEFORE PURSUING ANY SUCH PATHS FOR THE CURRENT AND UP TO DATE APPROVED PATHS TO LICENSURE. 


Oct 17, 19 10:14 pm
RickB-Astoria

I would be subject to the following: (AFTER INITIAL LICENSURE and 3 YEARS of continuous licensure with a spotless track record)

2. All other architects whose highest level of education may be high school, associate degree, unrelated bachelor or
master degree, or non-U.S. or Canadian degree must:
• Submit a Certificate Portfolio. Document experience as a licensed architect to satisfy all subject areas of the
NCARB Education Standard through a portfolio for peer review.
i. Architects with 64 or more semester credit hours of postsecondary education have the option to obtain an
Education Evaluation Services for Architects (EESA) to identify specific subject-area deficiencies to address
through the Certificate Portfolio.
ii. The General Education subject area of the Certificate Portfolio is waived for those with a U.S. or Canadian
bachelor degree or higher. 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This would be due to the extent of college education but not a B.A./B.S. in Architecture or a B.Arch/M.Arch. If I obtain a B.S/B.A. in Architecture, I would be subject to the following:

1. Architects who hold a four-year bachelor degree in an architecture-related program awarded by a U.S. regionally accredited institution or the Canadian equivalent must document two times (2x) the experience requirement of the NCARB Architectural Experience Program.


* Bachelor Degree in an Architecture-related Program: The term refers to any baccalaureate degree in an architecture-related program from an institution with U.S. regional accreditation that is awarded after earning less than 150 semester credits or the quarter-hour equivalent. For instance these degrees have titles such as Bachelor of Science in Architecture, Bachelor of Science in Architectural Studies, Bachelor of Arts in Architecture, Bachelor of Environmental Design, Bachelor of Architectural Studies, etc. This list is neither all-inclusive nor exhaustive. The amount of architecturally-defined content in these programs may vary from institution to institution.

tduds

I'm surprised they still answer your calls.

RickB-Astoria

They are a public agency. They kind of have to. Without proper legal justification, it would be kind of against the law. They have to answer the phones basically on a first call, first served basis during their hours of operations. It's in their job description to answer phone calls and inquiries regarding the laws and rules among other duties across the various positions.

RickB-Astoria

Other than Oct. 17th, the previous time I called OBAE was before Feb. of 2017 which is as far back as my phone records goes back to. So basically, I haven't talked to them on the phone in at over 2 years because I hadn't called them for any reason.

tduds

Is was joke.

RickB-Astoria

It was not clear whether you were joking or was actually serious until now.

.

Oct 18, 19 5:42 pm
Threesleeve

I do normally ignore RB, and sometimes wonder whether anyone doesn't. The threads he gets into turn into a sea of "RB is ignored by you", but the posts by anyone else in the thread just go on around those and don't seem to be responses to him. Maybe he's talking to himself and doesn't know it. Or maybe he's talking to himself and does know it?

While I like the ability and the option to ignore people on the site, I try not to use it. This thread, however, was enough to temporarily push me over to the other side. It wasn't so much that I couldn't just ignore what Rick was writing ... rather like the image says, it just made things easier to read. Who knows? I may end up liking it so much I keep things this way.

BulgarBlogger

So we have a junior (entry level) person who  started working at my firm. This person graduated with a 5-year BS in architecture, with the last year being a work-experience year. I gotta tell you- this person is soo green; has absolutely no idea what the hell is going on. Doesn't even know standard stud sizes. 


SO: 


I think for starters, we ought to eliminate all non-professional architectural programs. 

Oct 18, 19 7:30 pm
RickB-Astoria

I don't know if it makes much difference between B.Arch and B.S. in Architecture but if the degree is mostly a glorified art degree. I think even the NAAB educational criteria for accredited programs needs to be revamped. 

How it sounds, I would probably do a better job then this person you are talking about.

BulgarBlogger

huh? Rick- I'm this person's boss.

BulgarBlogger

huh? Rick- I'm this person's boss.

BulgarBlogger

Beyond that- I have noticed that on aberage, the quality of students from B.Arch programs is wayy better than those who graduate with a BS. Why? It probably has something to do with the level of focus abd rigour that comes along with why you pursue a professional degree to begin with.

RickB-Astoria

"huh? Rick- I'm this person's boss." Yes... I got that. I was saying I think I would be doing a better job then this employee based on what you are saying if this employee has such lack of basic knowledge such as common nominal and actual stud sizes or even how to find that information. You know.... self-initiative. 

I can concur that there is some general tendency that someone in a B.Arch will be better but not always and I have seen some stuff that would make you go WTF? 

Personal opinion below: Skip past if you really don't give a f---.

I think overall, the education needs to be revamped for more alignment for what knowledge and skills that people will need for jobs in the field for which the degrees are for. This applies to any 4+2 (or equivalent) program even in the first 4 years and the B.Arch/M.Arch programs. Personally, I think architecture education needs more architectonics and less archi-arts and a little less focus on art for art sake and more on the technical aspects of architecture while also having good design composition and form where we are addressing real world issues (even if it really a mock simulation project but with realism to it). I don't think students should be essentially engaging in actual practice of architecture except through employment in an architectural firm but project made in 'studio' should be realistic and either be buildings exempt from licensure in connection with non-profit organizations and the like OR they are mock projects with a realism to it just like law school has mock courtroom trials so they can be prepared for the real courtrooms when they become lawyers. We need to keep it realistic especially from year 2 on to year 4 or 5.

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