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Important Philosophical Question

atelier nobody

So, I've been doing this the same way for over 20 years, but I am rethinking it. I've decided to submit the question to the ultimate arbiter of architectural correctness - the Archinect forums.

When dimensioning masonry for CDs, do you use nominal or actual dims?

Masonry wall out-to-out: 120'-0" or 119'-7-5/8"?

Masonry opening: 3'-4" or 3'-4-3/8"?

 
Jun 19, 19 6:49 pm
Non Sequitur

I typically write how many full bricks I expect with special dims where a block is cut or needs to align  with something for whatever reason. Second to this, I’ll add a rough opening dim and, if present overall size of door, window , etc.  I let the mason do their thing after that.   They probably don’t care for that 9mm difference. 

Jun 19, 19 7:05 pm
tintt

Nominal for plans, actual for details.

Jun 19, 19 7:16 pm
curtkram

ACTUAL!!!!!!!  out to out for a masonry wall should be a normal dimension.  The 1/8" should be the clear dimension.  

Jun 19, 19 9:08 pm
oldwhitehouse

I'm Union Commercial  Construction in NYC. Every trade appreciates the architect who gave it some real thought and put Actual Dimensions on a plan. We know how to make it happen in reality.

Jun 19, 19 9:22 pm
curtkram

hell ya. That's why the last set sent out still had 1/256" dimensions

oldwhitehouse

That's a bit close of a tolerance curtkram, but stupid comments must be tolerated in online forums, so knock yourself out.

Non Sequitur

Trades appreciate clear instructions that leave no guess work as to the architect's intent. Micromanaging every aspect with non nonsensical or overly precise dimensions don't help anyone. Sure, I want this block wall to be exactly 4367mm long please.

oldwhitehouse

I can tell you from my 40 years union commercial experience that qualified trades appreciate an architect that puts actual dimensions. And qualified trades know when that 1/8" or 1/16" on a drawing can be disregarded or cheated one way or another in reality. We chuckle at this new generation of point click drag drop CAD college boys who never touched a pencil or triangle, let alone building materials.

Non Sequitur

^That is pretty much what I meant with my above comment.

oldwhitehouse

But yes, a drawing can call out "nominal" and specify + - a given tolerance, "Field Verify" and all that s#!t, but that still ultimately is up for tweeking in the field.

curtkram

old, the 1/256" dimension means we didn't adequately review the drawings before we sent them out. i do think things should be accurate to 1/8" on our drawings though. a string of 16 1/8" off adds up to 2" off, which is enough to cause problems.

tintt

I thought the 1/256th was trying to count for individual inconsistencies among units.

Non Sequitur

I don't understand what all those little air quotes and slashes mean.

atelier nobody

^Blame Canada!

citizen

Dimensional accuracy for skilled tradesmen is the best of all worlds. Unfortunately, it's rare in some parts.

curtkram

the inch" symbol is what put people on the moon. Metric engineering sucks.

midlander

i've been looking for an opportunity to stick in a detail like this.


Jun 19, 19 10:23 pm
Bench

Thats offensive

oldwhitehouse

The Greeks are looking down laughing about That one.

atelier nobody

Someone should have an appointment with a sharp knife and a white kimono for that one...

Non Sequitur

I love the offset of the two flanking brackets.

joseffischer

I like to think this was centered during DD and got stretched 2 days before the CD deadline. The Architect and GC argued about some other part of the building during CA where the architect said something like "I'm the architect, dimension it how I showed it" and the GC decided to get his revenge here.

curtkram

that would be Romans rather than Greek

citizen

The asymmetrically placed corbels make it even more ... something. Delicious? Disturbing?

Deliciously disturbing. But not as much as all those thin tapered bricks that somebody went to an inordinate amount of difficulty over.

citizen

Punishment for an unruly masonry apprentice?

oldwhitehouse

Curt, the Romans picked up where the Greeks left off. Classical Architecture is credited to both. That cornice would have been discarded by both

curtkram

disagree. The Roman arch was roman. Greeks liked post and beam construction.

oldwhitehouse

There is no arch in that picture, it is an entablature. You can disagree all you like, but the study of classical architecture encompasses motifs and proportions handed down by ancient Greece and Rome. Or did they not mention Pythagorus in your school.

oldwhitehouse

And if we did decide to refer to the cute diagonal brick detail as an arch, whickbI wouldn't but OK, I'm pretty sure mid landers intent on posting this pi
c was to call attention to the poor planning and execution and assymetry of the Cornice and Corbels above.

midlander

actually i was interested to see some comments on the crazy amount of irregular and cut bricks in the flat arch. the asymmetry is strange but also less fascinating.

jeiffert

That's a jack arch. AKA flat arch.

midlander

fwiw this is a historically protected building built in 1908. as far as i can tell these are real bricks not facing bricks, which makes this only more perverse.

Jun 20, 19 8:00 pm
randomised

What level of detail should the drawings have to achieve this?






Jun 21, 19 3:31 am
oldwhitehouse

I'm pretty sure the drawing specified "Ad Libit

oldwhitehouse

Ad Libitum

Non Sequitur

Just fix the scale of your revit hatch.

Wankers screwed it up with those lintels, quoins and horizontal band.

curtkram

how do they do expansion joints?

midlander

no need these are thermoelastic bricks

Ergo

I like to go the the museum of Bureau international des pieds et des mesures and stare for hours at the thumb and feet Number 27 cast  in breadcrumbs and colby cheese, it still have the bone of the genius that invented this universal measure, even if I have to say that I miss the old and more traditional way of measure it by thoughts: "it's big enough" "it's very long" "at least 5000 weenies, 5\5932 lettuces, 65147+27654*17654%/&chops~ potatoes and 3 cubic snot" "from here to there" or the more classic "3 mid fingers and 5 greetings of the cyclist"

Jun 21, 19 9:26 pm

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