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Siding ideas... stumped on style

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mightyaa

So, my house got hit by lightning a few months ago and started a fire.  Since then, got a loan and we've been upgrading pretty much everything...  Now it's time to move on the building shell and I'm stymied for what direction to go.

The existing 70's cedar is a 12" shiplap with 10" exposure and 2" tongue.  Previous owners jacked it using a acrylic sealer.  Anyway after ripping through 3 bids, they agree we can't just strip and restain.  Options are deconstructing, re-plaining the rough sawn smooth and hopefully salvaging about 60% (a lot of cupping), or just replacing.  Recreating the siding is coming in around $12.50/sf. I hate Hardi which is on almost all my litigation cases and I associate with "builder grade", but admittedly am not up to speed on what the cool kids do now.  I'm thinking cedar again or mixing a bit of metal.  Also dislike 'fake' like lick and stick stone or false pilasters.  There is some stone veneer on the entry (2nd photo), but for the most part, it's 2 stories of cedar shiplap...

No idea what you call the architectural style; 70's big f'n jumbled box?  Crappy photos... overgrown landscaping too.  But gave an aerial to give a hint of the overall scale and design... Flat roof as well. 

Anyone see any material that'd go well with this oddball style? And ya... it's big; 6800 sf, 7 bed, 5 bath on a architect's salary :P


 
Jan 10, 19 8:08 pm

2 Featured Comments

All 23 Comments

Non Sequitur

"Anyone see any material that'd go well with this oddball style? And ya... it's big; 6800 sf, 7 bed, 5 bath on a architect's salary :P"

If that's the case, then I'll cut you a deal and set my consulting fee at $500 per hour. Also, I think you have my aluminum ladder.  Don't know how it got stuck on your roof.

I don't do residential but plenty of the nicer custom homes in my area are starting to use wood veneer laminated panels (Prodema).  It's a typical rainscreen application and you can cut the standard 4'x8' sheets on site to suit.  I've used it once on a commercial job a few years ago when it was still somewhat unknown and liked the options it gave me.  There are certainly cost-effective competitors to them by now.

If it was my home and I had the disposable cash for re-cladding, I'd combine the wood veneer panels with concrete tiles a la FibreC. I doubt any of these products come in under $12/sq.ft tho.


Jan 10, 19 8:22 pm
Bench

Actually I believe mightyaa is a regular here, and also a licensed architect... not a schmuck looking for free work.

Non Sequitur

.

Thats the joke

Bench

.


I love rough sawn cladding. Maybe replane what is salvageable and mix in some new rough sawn? Or maybe clad certain parts with the salvaged wood and mix in some corrugate metal panels too? Or reuse the rough sawn as a base with a belt board above which you change to a smooth cedar clapboard? Kind of like the rustication on the Palazzo di Medici but in wood.

Jan 10, 19 8:26 pm
Featured Comment

These two pics are from Houzz:

Cathy Schwabe Architecture uses this knotty wood in vertical board and batten. I love vertical board and batten for how modern it looks, but with the knotty wood it could combine well with horizontal rough sawn below the water table belt I suggested above.


For *really* oddball you could use bark shingles, like I did on the VisionDivision project here in Indy, or as G. Little Construction did on this houseboat:


Jan 10, 19 8:34 pm
Non Sequitur

That red door is causing all sorts of uncomfortable warmness in pants. I don’t find it uncomfortable, but the other on the bus probably do.

SneakyPete

I see that red door. I want to paint it black.

randomised

This seems to be a project for Japanese style charred wood, Shou Sugi Ban: https://www.zwarthout.com/en/ (also as a tribute to the actual burning of the facade...)

Jan 11, 19 3:26 am
Non Sequitur

So, you’re recommending to leave as is.

randomised

Or burn it a bit more to even out.

mightyaa

I think that was NS's joke... It was burned. Basically the lightning hit above the entry. It heated up the copper plumbing enough to ignite the insulation... That took out a chunk of the front facade, two bathrooms, the boiler, laundry room, and the hardwood.

randomised

I know, I read your post ;)

Pretty sure the economics of recycling are nil although I like the idea. There is a lot of handling involved if you need to carefully strip, process, and reinstall. With 40 year old knotty, weathered material your losses will be higher than you think. 

Forget about milling flat. Better to resaw into 1x6, meaning you'll get maybe 4" face. Rather than planing you might want to consider brushing (rotary wire - stationary machine like a planer, Makita has a handheld version) or sandblasting (which can be done in place). 

Novelty siding below with shingles above is a traditional style. Or you could go full Gehry with corrugated galvanized sheet, just need to add some hurricane fencing to finish it off.

While you've got the siding off tape the seams of the sheathing.

The cool kids kids aren't doing 7,000 SF res. 

Jan 11, 19 9:59 am
mightyaa

One that's sort of appealing is that you can't easily get 1x12 cedar anymore.

mightyaa

It's not like I designed a 7000 sf house. I got this one for a steal as the recession hit back in '09. It's a true custom, and actually very well designed. Just dated and showing it's age.

mightyaa

I've looked at several of the idea mentioned... The FibreC could be interesting.  I heard bad things about the Prodema and repeated freeze-thaw cycles.  Sugi Ban I haven't explored much; wonder how it's maintained and also curious to see how it handles CO's high UV (which tends to bleach surfaces).  With the blocky shapes, I could clad each box in complimentary surfaces.  I think part of my issue is tossing in the dumpster a lot of wood you can't really get anymore and replacing it with something cheap... just feels like downgrading.

I do like the possibility of cutting some of them to 6"; I may be able to salvage a bit more due to the cupping. Do you think it'd look stupid to maybe do the first floor in 1x12, then switch to a 1x6 higher up? 

Another I've toyed with is replaning and having fabricated a 4" (3" exposure) zinc "z" type pieces to slip between each plank... spacing them out and adding a stronger horizontal.  Basically figuring out some math to reuse the older stuff by putting something else in to make up the 40% that will be trashed.   

Question; If I'm yanking the siding, is it worth making a rainscreen.  The boards after replaining might only be 5/8".  I was going to add some rigid if I was stripping and add WRB / Flashings.  Already replacing about half the windows.  


Jan 11, 19 10:48 am
Non Sequitur

It's worth the effort to make it a rainscreen.

Non Sequitur

Here's a example of reclaimed and planed lumber I completed over the summer.  It's an interior application, but the end product gave use plenty of thickness variations (1/2" to 1.5") and colours.  A vertical application, as Donna suggests in her pic above, works well on the exterior, and... given your finite material pool, a clever introduction of a new cladding type is a great way to spice-up the house's character.  Note that the wood in my picture (the species type escapes me ATM) used to be exterior cladding.


Featured Comment
JLC-1

shou sugi ban works beautifully in colorado, https://willbruderarchitects.com/project/blackbird-house-aspen/

JLC-1

There is a school building done in the 70's with lodgepole logs, the south face is black now, just from UV - I worked on a house with cedar siding also on the south-west faces, all turning grey after 5 years. Little maintenance, the char acts as seal and bug repellent, you won't get yellow jackets nesting behind .

JLC-1

https://nakamotoforestry.com/ they might be able to use your boards

Stacking smaller on top of larger is classical and dates back to antiquity. Changing the shingle courses is a nice way to achieve this effect, too.

mightyaa

thanks for the links JLC I'll look at closer. Do you know if it's a "clean" product or like coretin where you'll get rust all over yourself?

SneakyPete

coravent is good for wood siding, especially for vertical orientation. http://www.cor-a-vent.com/ Rainscreen lets your cladding do its job without being annoying for the rest (weather barrier, etc )

mightyaa

Shingles are unfortunately are already on-site ready to install. Standard composition shingles...

JLC-1

It doesn't stain - I guess there is a sealant applied after installed, if you want I can ask the contractor for that aspen house.

SneakyPete

Shou Sugi Ban is relatively dirty if you don't wire brush the char off. Sealant works to a degree, but the char is soft, so any projectiles will probably remove the sealant. That being said how often will you rub up against the siding in a white shirt? It can also be expensive if you buy it from a manufacturer who's selling it as a product. I've seen contractors make it custom for projects with varying degrees of success.

SneakyPete

Have specified Delta Millworks, but have never seen it make it to the project.

mightyaa

Yep.. I'm familiar with the cor-a-vent products. Like em better than the insect screens you normally see. My only concern with the rainscreen systems is if my boards are thin, I'm unsure if this will help or make worse the cupping issue.. Not to mention I've got a woodpecker problem already. I'm not sure if standing the siding off will make it more appealing to those guys.

SneakyPete

Rainscreen will allow the wood to dry out, which should reduce the likelihood of cupping.

SneakyPete

We're using the coravent as our battens, not just as insect screening. The contractors love them, we love them, and they'll likely help the building last longer than the old version (horizontal continuous wood battens) which caused the vert siding to prematurely deteriorate.

Almosthip7

Always YES to rainscreen

poop876

Is that a LR Defender? Nice car!

Jan 11, 19 11:27 am
JLC-1

looks like an international scout, the nissan 240z is nice though.

poop876

I thought that too, but square lights are throwing me off! Yeah that Z is great!

tduds

I, too, came here to comment on the truck. Nice truck!

mightyaa

Ya, the one in the photo is the Scout... but if you look close on the aerial, you'll see my '73 Land Rover 88 (pre-defender) at the sideyard.

mightyaa

Oh, the '80 scout is the last year and the only ones with square headlights.

mightyaa

it's not a 240z... It's a '90 300zx Twin-turbo.

poop876

Nice!!!

JLC-1

Wow! what else in your collection?

Cover the entire thing with ice and weather and then just screw whatever pattern of scrap material on however you like.

I've seen this on $30m vacation houses.

Jan 11, 19 1:04 pm
mightyaa

lol... so have I ...in several litigation cases because the vapor drive gets trapped behind the ice and weather and rots the substrate.

I love board and batten.  Out here in California, we have a great tradition of ranch houses from the 40s and 50s that often have B&B.

Here's some shots of a house I designed many years ago, which has vertical board-and-batten siding, painted a dark eucalyptus green.  We tried to make the detailing more crisp and modern than the classic ranch house siding, and we oversized the battens to make it a bit more unusual.



Jan 11, 19 1:54 pm
Non Sequitur

a shower head visible from grade? Love it. gold star sticker for you.

poop876

Nice work Erik!

Thanks, poop!

mightyaa

that is nice... I like the modern proportions.

SneakyPete

The colors are really nice. Love the symmetry, too.

Barely visible! 

That's actually an open air shower.  Those are false windows without glass, that mimic the other windows on the house.  There is an opening in the roof above the shower that you can't see in the photo.

Jan 11, 19 2:22 pm
Non Sequitur

I was just about to ask if it was an open-air shower.

joewalrath

seamless steel board and batten. Siding for life

Jan 12, 19 7:52 am
Non Sequitur

No one designs for life.

joewalrath

At least you have the option for less than 12/ sq ft

Non Sequitur

sure, it's an option but it's not that nice.

joewalrath

Hard to judge something you know nothing about

Non Sequitur

But I do.

You can also get steel fake log siding.

joewalrath

Steel log siding is real, not fake and it has a place in the market.

Funny, all those years working wood and I've never seen a steel tree. Where do they grow?

Non Sequitur

How do you water a steel tree without it rusting?

joewalrath

You guys are probably both tree huggers, out of touch. You don’t realize that steel is recycled and used over and over. But I’m sure you can both afford to kill trees for your house siding

It's much more environmentally sound to smelt steel and paint it with polymers than it is to grow trees.

joewalrath

Probably not , but waste not want not. Not everyone can afford real wood siding . Let alone the maintenance thereafter. Steel with a Kynar finish lasts a lifetime.

Non Sequitur

But it still looks cheap and fake. What’s your point again mr. Sales rep?

joewalrath

This house is sided with 100 percent steell


Jan 12, 19 7:57 am

Nice steel shingles.

joewalrath

Quality edge tru cedar steel shakes

I was being facetious.

Non Sequitur

Meh.

Here you go mightyaa, "real" steel log siding. Love that corner "board" detail, really adds to the illusion of authenticity. 

Jan 13, 19 10:38 am
Non Sequitur

Does it come in blue?

joewalrath

Any color you want, and real log corners are an option

JLC-1

You mean real log coners?

Non Sequitur

that corner detail is so bad... and fake log grain on metal cladding is just the worst. Terrible product for anyone that cares about design but probably an excellent choice for your average McMansion douchebag.

mightyaa

That's my groove baby! Fake log on a huge (not cabin) house just calls to me :P

atelier nobody

Owww! My eyes!

Volunteer

The OP's house seems a little big for dark siding. Reminds me of coming across one of the 'garrison' two-story houses on a dark day in Connecticut in December. All you need is some colonials shooting blunderbusses from the windows at the Indians to complete the image. I would consider shiplap wood siding for the larger structure (painted a light shade of cream and trimmed in an off-white) and maybe 3 in thick stone veneer in a light shade of limestone on the other structure (if the budget allows).

Jan 13, 19 11:42 am
joewalrath

To each his own

Volunteer

I believe the OP asked for suggestions. Cost-wise he could do one wall of his house at a time. A lot of classic New England houses have a combination of board, shingle, and stone siding. Steel seems weird to me - but to each is own.

joewalrath

He also mentioned steel, that’s why I posted what I did

mightyaa

Ya, due to the massing of jumbled boxes, I think I could change colors and materials. The only worry is it'll start looking like a tri-plex... (it has 3 front entry doors) At least the original architect did a good job of emphasizing the main front door using stone and a large stair.

JLC-1

why can't we add pictures in the replies from a phone? I meant to add this whit the real log corners reply.


Jan 13, 19 1:15 pm
mightyaa

I sort of hate log. Part of it stems from out-of-state architect's designing 'cabins' (6000 sf+ houses) in the mountains and using log everywhere as a finish... log has it's place, just not in a white collar suburban context, never on a structure entirely too large to ever be conceived as framed by log, and really not in a '70's-80's upper middle class neighborhood. No way will I do log.

JLC-1

agreed. actually working right now in one of those log-as -siding monsters.

joewalrath

The snobbery is astonishing 



Jan 13, 19 1:21 pm
Non Sequitur

not snobbery. most don't like pushy sale reps.

joewalrath

What are you selling?

Non Sequitur

Don’t sell anything, am just
a noble architect.

joewalrath

I’m not selling anything either, it’s just that I have installed every kind of siding there is over the last forty years. So you’re getting an educated opinion from and even more humble working man. And yes you are a snob

Non Sequitur

Joe, you own an Idaho based cladding company that pushes hard for this fake wood steel siding crap. Probably a big seller with those that don’t care or don’t know any better (hey MAGA is a thing after all) so don’t confuse your sale tactics for “opinion”. Asking for quality and authenticity is not being a snob.

humble adj. Having or showing a modest or low estimate of one's importance.

joewalrath

Your definition fits no one here

joewalrath

Hey non I think I’ll upgrade you from snob to asshole

Non Sequitur

I'm already an asshole Joe, but so far I've restrained myself rather well. Stick to hawking your steel sheets to the suburban sprawl and home-depot discount crowd. Our standards are higher here.

So much for being humble.

mightyaa

Meh. The steel doesn't bother me; vinyl does. It can be done right and would solve my woodpecker issue. What I don't like that much is while the front facade is rather closed and flat, the rear is a different beast. Lots of in's and out's, balconies, large window groupings, and doors. That means a lot of corners, intersecting materials, and tight infill. The corners require a ton of coping, and there just aren't many really good steel siding guys around here that I've seen.

randomised

If going the steel siding route, why make it look like it is not steel and pretend it is wood? Is there something wrong with steel siding that makes people want it to be another material? If it has to be steel, why not embrace it? I rather like this no-nonsense use of steel siding:


(image from the BBC show 'The house that £100k built')

Jan 14, 19 2:46 am
Non Sequitur

Careful now Rando, you risk being called a snob by the faux wood steel cladding salesman.

randomised

I think I'll risk it :)

mightyaa

That's a bit more my jam. If it's steel, let it look like that. Simple S board or flat seam.

Volunteer

Or, you buy this house with limestone siding, located midway between Dallas and Austin, Texas, for $84,000 US.

Jan 14, 19 6:18 am
randomised

Screw those Colorado winters!

Non Sequitur

Stone siding?

Volunteer

Looks to me like a wood-frame house with 3 or 6 inch thick limestone veneer siding. The projection on the left side of the photo with the larger stones may be a solid limestone wall from an earlier structure.

mightyaa

Ya, but I'd have to live between Dallas and Austin :P... btw; I am a licensed TX architect too and we have a office in Dallas, was there a week ago doing a project. But my roots are in Denver.

Left side is likely a later budget addition. Look at the cheap eave detail.

mightyaa

Oh, and thought about stone... I'd want real, not lick and stick. My foundation lacks a brick ledge. So it'd price itself out.

Non Sequitur

what is better, lick and stick faux stone veneer... or faux-wood log steel cladding?

I couldn't find faux-stone in steel but there are plenty of manufacturers of fake stone. We really shouldn't overlook EIFS here. Disney World, Universal and every other theme park is built out of the stuff. With a hot knife and some paint you can make it look like anything. 

randomised

Do they also do faux-steel in stone?

mightyaa

I've seen some old 50's stuff... basically a faux stamped tin panels in a beveled cut limestone. No EIFS... but stucco is extremely affordable in Colorado. And no one has mentioned a 70's classic: T-111 plywood siding.

No EIFS - what's the matter, you don't like black mold?

Non Sequitur

^all molds matter Miles.

mightyaa

I laughed... btw; already have molds in a variety of non-discriminating color ranges; white fuzzy, black, yellow.. I'm not biased. Nothing says DIY like regular gypsum behind the shower tiles. I also personally believe the baseboard heater also covered behind said tile was a neat trick... as was pvc supplies instead of copper or even pex. Oh, and super space saver life hack; skip the p-trap at the fixture and just do it in the basement before you tie it into the main. I dread every time they open a wall...

atelier nobody

Miles - "I couldn't find faux-stone in steel..."

You'd be amazed some of the faux-____ shite that came up this morning while searching metal shingles. You know what's hard to find? Metal shingles that look like metal.

Non Sequitur

Atelier, I see you're late to the party here... but this thread was overrunned, for a short time, by some mom & pop faux steel siding door-to-door salesman. It was hilarious and he got all butt-hurt once we called his precious product shit.

atelier nobody

Yep, NS, I read through the whole thing and got a good chuckle.

Volunteer

Here is a better photo of the left side. The windows and stone size are decidedly different from the rest of the house. Not sure what drove the eave detailing. I think mightyaa should move here and fix this puppy up.

Jan 14, 19 11:20 am
sarahcatherine

I think you've already got a good idea of what you are looking for. If you are interested I heard of a good local company based in colorado called Conservation Construction. They had better prices than anderson and pella, but i'd have to do some more research. 

Mar 14, 19 1:36 pm
proto

in addition to board/batten, consider board over board, which can give you a reverse box rib look. and play with those patterns by board size

https://s3.amazonaws.com/fineh...


Mar 14, 19 7:07 pm
jenny5555

Nice pics. I've said this before but I got a really good quote for siding from a local company. I highly recommend themyou can find them here.

https://conservationconstructionofdallas.com/reviews/

Jun 17, 19 3:29 pm
Archie-Bunker

I’ll take the 300zx for some consultation, I may I have just the solution :D

Jun 17, 19 11:51 pm

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