I'm not sure what we'll get for bonuses. Typically it's around 75% of the unpaid overtime salaried people do in a year. I've only done about 190 hours of overtime this year so . . . .
Dec 14, 20 4:11 pm ·
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archanonymous
jeesus, i'd be retired if they paid me 75% of my overtime.
Also, we never get bonuses, but we are an ESOP company, so hopefully keeping the company profitable will benefit us eventually.
Dec 14, 20 4:15 pm ·
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BabbleBeautiful
This the first time I'm hearing an arch firm being an ESOP. A friend of mine is a ESOP consultant and talked to me about it years ago, but still don't really see the benefit for a arch firm.
What's your thoughts on it?
Dec 14, 20 4:30 pm ·
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mightyaa
Sounds like my life... My week ends with a deposition, been told how much I suck on another project a few times today by that manager, and have yet another project due tomorrow as well.
After that, I'm updating my resume again.
Dec 14, 20 6:55 pm ·
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tduds
As an ESOP - don't you get a dividend of the yearly profits? I'd imagine keeping the company profitable would benefit you more than "eventually"
Not in my ESOP firm. Been there almost 3 years and will only be 40% vested in January. Doesn't come close to the benefits that my peers at firms who participate in profit sharing get.
If you have to rely on a end of year bonus to round out your annual income then you’re not paid enough during the year. I had all my OT paid out every week until I got promoted to management inner circle. Not paying your staff for hours worked is a foreign concept to me.
Curious - in your experience/hearing from friends, is that generally a capital region thing, as opposed to TO/VA? The two firms i worked for in your city had the same policy you're describing, but i have always wondered if that's a micro-bubble.
Bench, you might be right. My colleagues with work experience in the larger areas certainly did not have paid OT similar to here. I know of some smaller offices with no compensation for OT, which is really weird because I know that office's business model can afford it. Others are fixed $/hr payout or additional vacation time... or a variation of both. Our office will even allow "borrowing" on the next year's cycle of vacation, but that's a different story. When I first started out, OT was considered anything over 35hr per week, and all was paid without question.
I'm sure there is abuse (I do notice some clocking in quarter hours if they leave at 5:15.), but management is wise and distributed project duties and work loads in deliberate ways to avoid and or reward those who took their billing times seriously.
NS, that's our policy as well. Everybody takes the time off in lieu, I find, probably because they just want a break after working extra hours - which is extremely rare btw. You can't expect people to stick around if they feel abused.
I think I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread but my firm is employee owned (ESOP I just learned, might be the correct term). Not every employee has stock, but most do. Non shareholders are hourly (with paid overtime), shareholders are salary (with profit share). I think it's a good arrangement for both sides.
Tduds, our breakdown is similar to what you describe although not everybody (few, actually) make it out of the hourly + OT category. You need to be more than just a warm body to step into profit sharing club. 8-)
For architects, licensure is (usually) the qualifier. For non-architects (admin, technical support, accounting, & so on) there are more subjective qualifiers but I don't know the details. I'd guess around 75%, maybe more, are shareholders.
Dec 15, 20 2:57 pm ·
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square.
tduds how big is your firm?
Dec 15, 20 3:19 pm ·
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tduds
About 90 total (including support staff)
Dec 15, 20 3:43 pm ·
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thisisnotmyname
Sounds like a nice arrangement. The extension of the opportunities to the non-architects in the firm is a great incentive and unfortunately rare.
This year's bonus is approx. 6.5% of my annual salary not counting profit share%. Everybody gets something here, although obviously not at the same rate.
archi-due - I did 190 hours of overtime this year. For any sane person that is a lot. Say you make $70K a year - 190 hours of unpaid overtime is over $9,590 of pay you didn't receive.
After several rounds of performance reviews and being praised for my "excellent" work, my raise ended up being about 1/5 of what I asked for (and lower than last year). And a promotion accompanied by a half-assed apology for not being promoted the last two years because my boss couldn't remember how long I've worked for him. But I suppose I should be excited I finally have a title to go with the duties I've had for the last two years.
there aren't bonuses big enough for how much overtime we've been working. We get paid well and the bonuses will be 10-15% annual salary but I'd give it all up and take a hit on my salary to just be 32 hr a week or get some serious sabbatical time. Sadly Americans just don't understand that time is compensation to some people. This next year I'm actually going to start the hunt for part time/just below full time positions. Theres more to life than endless deadlines that get progressively more ludicrous.
Go for it! I work 4 days a week and wouldn’t want it any other way. That one day off is holy and everything job wise is planned around it, even if it means a little overtime now and then on the other days (which is compensated as time off)
We work 4 1/2 days a week - still 40 hours a week however come 11am on Fridays we're closed and I'm off into the outdoors. I do wish we where paid overtime though. I'd give up a year end bonus for that.
Dec 21, 20 10:30 am ·
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Non Sequitur
I only logged 165hrs of OT in 2020... which is slightly less than previous years but not by much. I've slowly but steadily managed to maintain a 38 to 42 hr week over the last 3 or 4 years and have no problem leaving at 5pm sharp every night. Nothing is that important that it can't wait until the next day.
NS, 165 hours is still almost 10% of the typical yearly hours, assuming about 40hrs/ week. That's a lot. I try not to work any at all and I can check later but I'm sure it's barely in the double digits. On the other hand, it's not like I've taken much holiday time this year.
I'm typically in your situation BB. If I get 80 hours of OT in a year that's normally above average. The amount of OT I work is what I'm willing to do for free. I've told the owners this and they think working OT is a sign of dedication. We disagree.
Chad and BB, our weeks are 37.5hr (or 1950 per year). I'm working towards keeping it close to 40 but I have responsibilities that often take me above that. That's what my profit % covers (which on on an average year is about x2 OT hours based on the 150-200hrs). The xmas bonus I mentioned earlier is just that, a bonus.
My "worst" OT year was 570hrs of OT... but every single one of those hours was paid-out as part of regular payroll (I believe I was at $32CAD per hour back then... 6 years ago)
For the last ~4 years since taking on management, I've made it a point to not work overtime, and I ask all my staff to do the same. The only time it would be expected is if something messed up, in which case we have a very strict unofficial policy that says "shit rolls uphill" (ie management probably messed up).
First firm I worked for (2002 - 2010) did not allow any staff to do OT unless a partner approved it. The partners view was that OT burnt out people. I think in the eight years I was there I did maybe 80 hours of OT.
I was made whole from the past year's pay cut, no raise, with a little extra into my 401k. Considering I am employed when many are not, I am satisfied, but the profession really needs to do a better job getting paid what we're worth and then sharing that with staff.
10% bonus this year - no pay increase, though, and I lost a critical team member to layoffs and they weren’t replaced. I would have taken a pay cut so I wouldn’t have to work until midnight every night while also juggling childcare and zoom meetings during the day.
taking two weeks off starting today. the PM on the project I was helping out with was telling me how he’s going to be working over the holidays. Ok. You do that. I’m going to spend two weeks getting some sleep and then start on another project when I get back.
This is like a whole nother thread. But why do you have to work till midnight every night, you're not getting paid for it?
Do you feel that you are obligated to the firm? Is it professional pride? Do you worry that if you don't the project may result in some sort of lawsuit that would impact you/your job? Do you think you'll lose your job if you don't?
I've been thinking about this issue for years, because I often have the same problem, yet other people in my office do not. And I often think what would happen if I just let project's fail based on their management rather than using my own energy and time to try to keep them hanging on.
Nate - My wife is a front line worker and I have young kids who are doing zoom school during the day. The only time I have to do any actual production work is between 9pm and 12am. The rest of my day is squeezing in meetings between managing the kids.
Before the pandemic I would clock out at 5:30 almost every day - and have dinner waiting for me when I got home (my wife’s parents would pick up the kids and have I’d
I received $5k bonus earlier this week. So unexpected I checked to make sure they didn’t accidentally give me next month’s paycheck early. Emotionally conflicted though as we had to lay off some people ... and we’re still able to hand out bonuses? I would have probably foregone the bonus if it meant keeping someone around, but $5k doesn’t pay a salary.
Jan 1, 21 6:53 pm ·
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bowling_ball
But a bunch of $5k bonuses do. It sounds like your bosses were just looking to cut some dead weight.
Bumping this as it is that time of the year, and seeing posts elsewhere on the topic.
Haven't heard what my bonus will be this year, or if we'll even get one this year. I'd be surprised if we don't, but I try not to expect it and be disappointed. Better to be pleasantly surprised, no?
34% of what? whatever it is i'll never see anything close to that at my office...
Dec 16, 21 1:13 pm ·
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RJ87
We talked about it a bit in the money thread, but sounds like tduds & I both work at firms where we'd make more in base pay elsewhere but the bonus puts us in a better situation in total comp so we stay. The idea is to keep fixed costs lean so when shit hits the fan in recessions you don't immediately have to reduce pay / fire folks.
I got the equivalent of about 28% of my base salary as a bonus this year. It's a mixed bag. I'd rather have a higher base pay & no bonus, but it does help keep our household finances low & save more money. Which is what I should be doing at my age anyways.
The thing that my bonus reminds me of every year is how much I pay in taxes, which never fails to annoy me. Bonuses are taxed at a different rate, some of which I'll get back with my tax return. But that's just giving the government a free zero interest lone which is ridiculous.
Dec 16, 21 1:46 pm ·
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square.
interesting- hard to conceptualize the numbers, but looks like i'm in the opposite boat. anytime i get a bonus though it hardly feels like it.. about 50% is gone.
Dec 16, 21 2:13 pm ·
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RJ87
My bonus came as a separate check & 37% of it was taken out for tax withholding. Filing jointly my usual tax bracket is 22%. So that extra 15% I wont get back until my tax return. Comes out to about $3,000 that the government gets to hold onto without paying a penny in interest. Every year I try to dial in my tax withholding as close to perfect as I can, I'd rather owe the government a couple bucks than them give me money back. Every dollar they keep represents lost earnings in the market.
Our office will raise the bonus amount so you get a nice round number. For example, the bonus is around $1,250 to make sure you get the full $1,000 in take home pay. Their view is the bonus amount they agree on should be the take home amount. It's rather nice!
Chad, that's nice. It's nice to not be feeling short changed because of government's taxes taken out.
Dec 16, 21 3:06 pm ·
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rcz1001
RJ87, I agree. That's nicer than non-secured checks that could bounce if the party who writes the checks have insufficient funds and the bank decides to triple wham and hit me with a bounced check fee three times which they also do to the other party with a overdraft fee three times. Banks are EVIL (at times).
square: percentage of salary. The target each year is 20%. We got zero last year and I think the fat bonus this year was a way of making up for that, showing appreciation for everybody working to get the firm through the lean time.
Back in the mid 00's, Gensler would make people job offers with "guaranteed bonuses", a set amount you would get as at a future date later in the year. I never learned why exactly they did it, but for the employee, it was working for deferred compensation.
Anyone going to make the connection between the govt holding onto your excess tax withholdings as being a zero interest loan, and your employer paying you less in a salary to give you a big bonus as a zero interest loan too?
EA, not all offices are the same. Many won't know what, if any bonuses they can give out until very close to the end of the year. Taxes, payroll, consultants, rent, software, debt, all have to be paid out before bonuses, while making sure there enough left to start the new year without taking on more debt. So no, that's not typically the case that they just have some account that's earmarked for bonuses.
EA - When I say "less" I don't mean to say they pay us poorly in the meantime. I could probably make 5k-10k (pushing it) elsewhere maybe at this point, but they give me between 10-20k as a bonus. So the math is in my favor if you want to think of that delayed comp as bearing interest. Beats what I'd make putting it in the market.
I decided to take this out of the replies to tduds comment. Seems like it could be it's own side discussion.
I appreciate the comments bowling_ball and RJ87. I'm not trying to say it's bad or good ... I'm simply saying there is a connection to what people often complain about when the government does it with withheld taxes. Something to be aware of and understand the implications for you personally is all.
My personal opinion is that I'd rather have the money in my paycheck throughout the year than a big fat bonus that isn't guaranteed. I've seen people burned by it before when they were counting on that money and the firm made the decision that they couldn't pay out bonuses, or pay out "as big as normal" bonuses. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." I also realize I'm viewing this completely from a worker's perspective. An employer gains an advantage over the employee by holding out that enticement of a big bonus check. I myself have contemplated sticking around at a job longer than I'd wish to, just to make sure I could get that bonus.
Agreed. If I could get them to add 20k to my base salary & take no bonus I would in a heartbeat. But then I'd look overpaid in 1 number instead of making them add two numbers together to realize it.
I'm also just jaded when it comes to taxes anyways, so it skews my perspective.
In case anyone was wondering about how things played out when I was contemplating sticking around longer so I could make sure I got my usual end of (fiscal) year bonus from that previous firm. When I made the post below, I still had a couple of months before I really made up my mind to leave. I would have had to wait another few months to ensure I received my usual bonus.
I decided to let that not guaranteed bonus go and take a new job. I did use the fact that I was leaving a few months before our typical bonuses would be paid out to negotiate a signing bonus with the new firm.
So by the end of 2019 I basically got triple bonuses (end of old firm's fiscal year bonus, new firm signing bonus, and new firm end of calendar year bonus) plus around a 40% increase in salary with a new job at a better firm. YMMV.
I get it. If you've had a bonus before, it's understandable that you'd expect it in the future. But it's called a bonus for a reason. It's typically discretionary, you really shouldn't count on it
This year's bonus was $5k less than the pay cut I took for a year to help us make it through COVID. Oh and they also received a bunch of PPP loans, but I guess not enough, because they still had to cut everyone's pay?
Found out this afternoon that this year's bonus will be a little more than 6% of my salary. Which is in line with what they gave me two years ago. No complaints.
Received a bonus equal to 5% of salary. This is my third year with this firm and so far that number has been typical. However this year we also received a bonus after Q1 which was equal to about 2% of my salary so overall a bit of an increase.
We don't typically get year end bonuses, ours are in march. Same with raises. I think I've averaged ~10% raise each year, and maybe a 4% bonus. it got a little messed up with covid though, as they held raises for almost the entire year of 2020. Given market opportunity they would be wise to do more for just about everyone in our office this year, but it's never that simple
Can't believe your firm is not observing Christmas on Christmas Eve this year. One way or another, they're paying people to not work that day because come on - we all know what happens.
Come work with the firm I'm at OLA! We're closed from Christmas Eve through New Years.
Dec 21, 21 12:36 pm ·
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RJ87
We always have a full day on the calendar for christmas eve but they "surprise" us every year by closing at lunch so I never use vacation time for it. We're fortunate this year, the office will be closed the entire week after Christmas. That's new for us.
RJ8 - that's what we used to do. The new owners were just like 'look, we all know it's going to happen, we'll just make it a holiday'.
Dec 21, 21 4:50 pm ·
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bowling_ball
We bring people in on Christmas Eve morning for coffee and Bailey's, then send them home at lunch, at the latest. Full shut down until the new year. People need a break and aren't going to be productive over the holidays anyway
We'll typically do something similar, a "surprise" half day that's mostly spent wrapping up emails and cracking open gift baskets from consultants. Since Christmas is a Saturday this year, we're getting the Friday as a holiday. Early start to the holiday week!
Sorry to hear that OneLostArchitect. Our office is the same as some others where we are getting Christmas Eve off in observation of Christmas (and New Years Eve in observation of New Years Day.)
The firm surprised us this year with the week between Christmas and New Years as paid holidays.
I've gotten <10 bonuses in my life (26 years in architecture and 10 years in other jobs before architecture). I've only worked at one firm that gave them every year - other firms only gave them occasionally if they'd had an exceptionally good year.
Frankly, I'd much rather have my salary set appropriately and forego bonuses and "incentives" altogether. If I wanted my compensation based on the firm's performance (as opposed to my performance) I'd be self-employed.
I did get an iPad one year, that was nice. And a nice-ish pen with a signed note from the CEO when I got my license (rollerball, though, not a fountain pen).
$500 bonus this year. Owner said that he figures the hourly staff don’t really need a significant bonus since they get paid for ot. I’ve got about a month on the manager side, so hoping for big money next year
We handed out 6% bonuses this year. And due to a COVID infection of a staff member, we sent everybody home a week earlier than normal. I mean, they're supposed to be working until Friday at noon but I'm not going to check in and neither will anybody else.
So yeah, free extra week of holidays for everyone. Merry Festivus everyone
Bumping this like I did last year. This thread reminded me of it (https://archinect.com/forum/th...), but also wanted to build on the history contained here so it's easier to look back on previous years' end bonus discussions.
Dec 14, 22 11:53 pm ·
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RJ87
Sometimes a year changes perspective, but reading my replies from last year I still feel exactly the same lol. I'd still rather have a higher base pay, but the bonus more than makes up for it on a yearly basis.
Bonus this year was equivalent roughly 20% of my salary. I took on a different in the 4th quarter of last year & sustained it through this year so I had planned on asking for a raise at the end of this year. Ended up getting a 21.5% raise to go along with it.
Our bonuses have always been a higher proportion of total comp than what's typical elsewhere. I'm more excited about the fact that my monthly cash flow / base salary is getting up there. Should kick in next paycheck & makes budgeting easier.
Have any of my Canadian brethren/sistren(?) dug into the RAIC survey they just published? Was interesting to see compensation and bonus structure across different geographic areas. From memory, salaries in Ontario are very low, with large bonuses. We do it the opposite in the prairies. I can't remember the West coast details except that they met my own experience - you're all underpaid.
We give out small bonuses. This is mostly because, as we've now had validated by two different sources, we are paying well above market (like a ridiculous amount). Having said that, nobody has left in almost 7 years now.... Crazy
Ive also never heard of this. But I'm only OAA, not RAIC. If you feel like sharing some salacious details for Ontario (GTA) and Quebec (MTL) i'd be very grateful ... sorry im not going to the prairies :(
Dec 2, 23 11:05 am ·
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Non Sequitur
Sexy voiceover: “ no one wants to go to the prairies”.
Bench, only reason I am a RAIC is because 2 of my offices founding members are fellows and were strong in the syllabus stuff (despite my vocal criticism of it). RAIC dues is like 400 loonies per year but I can expense it. Not sure what it does other than add even more letters to the email signature.
Dec 2, 23 11:42 am ·
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bowling_ball
Canadian Architect did a great series of articles, diving into the major parts and actually giving away much of the info
NS - I my equivalent membership down south, only because of geographic living situation. Not sure it really does much; more than anything they seem to have given my email to a database of product suppliers who spam me nonstop now.
The one convenience is that they constantly have free online learning modules to get those CE credits finished.
Will report back. Been with a new firm for a year. Past firm base salary was 72,000, June bonus of 15,000+ generally and holiday bonus of 2,500, stock and awesome 401k plan. New firm (smaller) with an increased based salary of additional 13,000. culture has been amazing. Access to thoughtful clients and rewarding projects. Life balance is unbelievable and taken such a burden off my mental health and physical health. I do know some hard financial times recently but hoping that does not blow the raise and bonus opportunities.
With all the insanity going on, I do hope everyone on this forum takes a moment to pause and give yourself some space at the end of another wild year to take stock of everything. We are in a notoriously difficult profession and more often than not we put everything in our lives on pause or the back burner to get things done for everyone else. You deserve it. Happy Holidays to everyone!
$800 for my holiday bonus this year. About the same as last year. This is just a holiday bonus though. The big end-of-year bonus will come in a few months once the financials and performance reviews and raises are all decided and wrapped up.
My net profit for the year is 19%, on top of a salary that is roughly what I would make as an employee doing similar work, so that's kind of like a bonus. Except that I've already spent most of it during the year as owner's draws. So I guess the bonus is knowing that I made a decent net profit for the year.
Nothing this year (hard year for the firm). Luckily I got a 15% increase in salary jumping to my current firm from my previous last year. We are also pretty busy in our office but other offices are not quite so. Will be an interesting beginning to the year that's for sure.
Don't think we're receiving a bonus this year. I'm leaving for my vacation tomorrow and it hasn't been brought up. Little odd, but I think it would be weirder for me to bring it up unprompted, right?
Same canoe as Chad for us. Xmas bonus is the same for everyone, management included. A pouch of 1000 loonies regardless of project performance. But then again, we pay our staff so no one has to rely on bonus to round out their compensation.
Dec 22, 23 7:52 am ·
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sameolddoctor
Our firm pays well compared to the market, but the hours we work are insane compared to most firms. So the pay rate sucks ass.
I’ve always been of the mind that you should pay well and a bonus is just that, a bonus. Money you can do fun/stupid stuff with because you’re not using it to balance your household budget due to lower yearly pay.
No year end this year. Yet the partners ask why our teams don't constantly want to work late for out-of-scope work to satisfy their whims, and also wonder why our turnover is high...
Year End Bonuses
I'm not sure what we'll get for bonuses. Typically it's around 75% of the unpaid overtime salaried people do in a year. I've only done about 190 hours of overtime this year so . . . .
jeesus, i'd be retired if they paid me 75% of my overtime.
You're working for $15 an hour then if you're not getting other types of compensation.
Getting paid for the hours you've worked is NOT a bonus.
Getting paid 75 cents on the dollar for hours you've worked means you're paying THEM to work.
just wait until i cash in all this experience and exposure I'm getting. I'll be able to buy at least a couple hot dogs.
The fact that people are okay for not getting paid is bullshit. Corporate made "salary" a thing and we all fell for it!
I get mandatory overtime from now until 1/8, and hopefully not laid off after that.
Also, we never get bonuses, but we are an ESOP company, so hopefully keeping the company profitable will benefit us eventually.
This the first time I'm hearing an arch firm being an ESOP. A friend of mine is a ESOP consultant and talked to me about it years ago, but still don't really see the benefit for a arch firm. What's your thoughts on it?
Sounds like my life... My week ends with a deposition, been told how much I suck on another project a few times today by that manager, and have yet another project due tomorrow as well. After that, I'm updating my resume again.
As an ESOP - don't you get a dividend of the yearly profits? I'd imagine keeping the company profitable would benefit you more than "eventually"
Not in my ESOP firm. Been there almost 3 years and will only be 40% vested in January. Doesn't come close to the benefits that my peers at firms who participate in profit sharing get.
no bonus...just a pension, holidays, overtime as time off and all travel expenses paid
If you have to rely on a end of year bonus to round out your annual income then you’re not paid enough during the year. I had all my OT paid out every week until I got promoted to management inner circle. Not paying your staff for hours worked is a foreign concept to me.
Curious - in your experience/hearing from friends, is that generally a capital region thing, as opposed to TO/VA? The two firms i worked for in your city had the same policy you're describing, but i have always wondered if that's a micro-bubble.
Bench, you might be right. My colleagues with work experience in the larger areas certainly did not have paid OT similar to here. I know of some smaller offices with no compensation for OT, which is really weird because I know that office's business model can afford it. Others are fixed $/hr payout or additional vacation time... or a variation of both. Our office will even allow "borrowing" on the next year's cycle of vacation, but that's a different story. When I first started out, OT was considered anything over 35hr per week, and all was paid without question.
I'm sure there is abuse (I do notice some clocking in quarter hours if they leave at 5:15.), but management is wise and distributed project duties and work loads in deliberate ways to avoid and or reward those who took their billing times seriously.
I wish more firms had policies like this.
NS, that's our policy as well. Everybody takes the time off in lieu, I find, probably because they just want a break after working extra hours - which is extremely rare btw. You can't expect people to stick around if they feel abused.
I think I mentioned this elsewhere in the thread but my firm is employee owned (ESOP I just learned, might be the correct term). Not every employee has stock, but most do. Non shareholders are hourly (with paid overtime), shareholders are salary (with profit share). I think it's a good arrangement for both sides.
Tduds, our breakdown is similar to what you describe although not everybody (few, actually) make it out of the hourly + OT category. You need to be more than just a warm body to step into profit sharing club. 8-)
For architects, licensure is (usually) the qualifier. For non-architects (admin, technical support, accounting, & so on) there are more subjective qualifiers but I don't know the details. I'd guess around 75%, maybe more, are shareholders.
tduds how big is your firm?
About 90 total (including support staff)
Sounds like a nice arrangement. The extension of the opportunities to the non-architects in the firm is a great incentive and unfortunately rare.
wondering if anyone who is in a smaller firm has an arrangement like this.. seems more common in bigger firms
No bonuses on furlough...
5% raise with a 5% bonus, counting myself lucky that's for sure. I've seen too many of my friends/peers let go this year.
This year's bonus is approx. 6.5% of my annual salary not counting profit share%. Everybody gets something here, although obviously not at the same rate.
Impressive
This year's bonus was only 50% of the overtime I did or roughly 0.14% of my yearly salary. :(
Thumbs down for lack of round up the %. They could have at least done 0.2%.
.14%??? you must be getting paid alright at least... or otherwise they just handed you a gift card to Applebee's.
Our bonuses are in March, but never even heard of less than maybe 1%. Usually 3-5. That's pretty wild. Going to be an interesting year I guess.
More than a month's paycheck is quite good, congrats!
Bummer on the bonus but sounds like you dont have to do much overtime. That's BA!
My math may have been off . . ..
1.4% is the correct number. Still less than half of the unpaid overtime I did this year. :(
Oh well, it's still a bonus and unlike many I have a stable position at the firm.
archi-due - I did 190 hours of overtime this year. For any sane person that is a lot. Say you make $70K a year - 190 hours of unpaid overtime is over $9,590 of pay you didn't receive.
After several rounds of performance reviews and being praised for my "excellent" work, my raise ended up being about 1/5 of what I asked for (and lower than last year). And a promotion accompanied by a half-assed apology for not being promoted the last two years because my boss couldn't remember how long I've worked for him. But I suppose I should be excited I finally have a title to go with the duties I've had for the last two years.
there aren't bonuses big enough for how much overtime we've been working. We get paid well and the bonuses will be 10-15% annual salary but I'd give it all up and take a hit on my salary to just be 32 hr a week or get some serious sabbatical time. Sadly Americans just don't understand that time is compensation to some people. This next year I'm actually going to start the hunt for part time/just below full time positions. Theres more to life than endless deadlines that get progressively more ludicrous.
Go for it! I work 4 days a week and wouldn’t want it any other way. That one day off is holy and everything job wise is planned around it, even if it means a little overtime now and then on the other days (which is compensated as time off)
10% - 15% bonus doesn't cover your overtime?
We work 4 1/2 days a week - still 40 hours a week however come 11am on Fridays we're closed and I'm off into the outdoors. I do wish we where paid overtime though. I'd give up a year end bonus for that.
I only logged 165hrs of OT in 2020... which is slightly less than previous years but not by much. I've slowly but steadily managed to maintain a 38 to 42 hr week over the last 3 or 4 years and have no problem leaving at 5pm sharp every night. Nothing is that important that it can't wait until the next day.
NS, 165 hours is still almost 10% of the typical yearly hours, assuming about 40hrs/ week. That's a lot. I try not to work any at all and I can check later but I'm sure it's barely in the double digits. On the other hand, it's not like I've taken much holiday time this year.
I'm typically in your situation BB. If I get 80 hours of OT in a year that's normally above average. The amount of OT I work is what I'm willing to do for free. I've told the owners this and they think working OT is a sign of dedication. We disagree.
Chad and BB, our weeks are 37.5hr (or 1950 per year). I'm working towards keeping it close to 40 but I have responsibilities that often take me above that. That's what my profit % covers (which on on an average year is about x2 OT hours based on the 150-200hrs). The xmas bonus I mentioned earlier is just that, a bonus.
NS - that is how bonusses are supposed to be done. I strongly disagree with how my firm bases bonusses on how much overtime you've done.
I don't do OT unless I screwed up. If that's detrimental to my employment I'll find another employer.
My "worst" OT year was 570hrs of OT... but every single one of those hours was paid-out as part of regular payroll (I believe I was at $32CAD per hour back then... 6 years ago)
For the last ~4 years since taking on management, I've made it a point to not work overtime, and I ask all my staff to do the same. The only time it would be expected is if something messed up, in which case we have a very strict unofficial policy that says "shit rolls uphill" (ie management probably messed up).
First firm I worked for (2002 - 2010) did not allow any staff to do OT unless a partner approved it. The partners view was that OT burnt out people. I think in the eight years I was there I did maybe 80 hours of OT.
5% before tax. No raise. No cost of living adjustment.
I was made whole from the past year's pay cut, no raise, with a little extra into my 401k. Considering I am employed when many are not, I am satisfied, but the profession really needs to do a better job getting paid what we're worth and then sharing that with staff.
10% bonus this year - no pay increase, though, and I lost a critical team member to layoffs and they weren’t replaced. I would have taken a pay cut so I wouldn’t have to work until midnight every night while also juggling childcare and zoom meetings during the day.
taking two weeks off starting today. the PM on the project I was helping out with was telling me how he’s going to be working over the holidays. Ok. You do that. I’m going to spend two weeks getting some sleep and then start on another project when I get back.
This is like a whole nother thread. But why do you have to work till midnight every night, you're not getting paid for it?
Do you feel that you are obligated to the firm?
Is it professional pride?
Do you worry that if you don't the project may result in some sort of lawsuit that would impact you/your job?
Do you think you'll lose your job if you don't?
I've been thinking about this issue for years, because I often have the same problem, yet other people in my office do not. And I often think what would happen if I just let project's fail based on their management rather than using my own energy and time to try to keep them hanging on.
I don't do any of the above. I only work OT if:
1. I feel that I've made some type of error
2. The project really, really needs it
If I'm fired for not doing overtime then screw that firm.
Nate - My wife is a front line worker and I have young kids who are doing zoom school during the day. The only time I have to do any actual production work is between 9pm and 12am. The rest of my day is squeezing in meetings between managing the kids.
It’s the only way I can get 40 hours in without having to work all weekend.
Just saw this elsewhere on the internet and thought it belonged here.
Before the pandemic I would clock out at 5:30 almost every day - and have dinner waiting for me when I got home (my wife’s parents would pick up the kids and have I’d
The plus side my wife is no longer on my case about not doing enough childcare/household stuff.
Axon, I hear ya. The way it was stated made it sound like you were working really excessive hours, not that the timing was due to juggling.
The point I was making is still broadly applicable to the field though.
To chad's response.
I agree with the error, that is the only time I am happy to put in extra hours, when I mess something up.
In my experience, "when the project really needs it" is always. hahahaha... if they can't pay you for the work, then does it really need it though?
Gave out chocolates, wine and cheques today.
Where's mine?
I received $5k bonus earlier this week. So unexpected I checked to make sure they didn’t accidentally give me next month’s paycheck early. Emotionally conflicted though as we had to lay off some people ... and we’re still able to hand out bonuses? I would have probably foregone the bonus if it meant keeping someone around, but $5k doesn’t pay a salary.
But a bunch of $5k bonuses do. It sounds like your bosses were just looking to cut some dead weight.
Bumping this as it is that time of the year, and seeing posts elsewhere on the topic.
Haven't heard what my bonus will be this year, or if we'll even get one this year. I'd be surprised if we don't, but I try not to expect it and be disappointed. Better to be pleasantly surprised, no?
Raise and bonus, pretty pleased. Nothing massive, but can't complain either.
Big bonus this year. ~34% "performance bonus" plus ~10% shareholder dividend.
34% of what? whatever it is i'll never see anything close to that at my office...
We talked about it a bit in the money thread, but sounds like tduds & I both work at firms where we'd make more in base pay elsewhere but the bonus puts us in a better situation in total comp so we stay. The idea is to keep fixed costs lean so when shit hits the fan in recessions you don't immediately have to reduce pay / fire folks.
I got the equivalent of about 28% of my base salary as a bonus this year. It's a mixed bag. I'd rather have a higher base pay & no bonus, but it does help keep our household finances low & save more money. Which is what I should be doing at my age anyways.
The thing that my bonus reminds me of every year is how much I pay in taxes, which never fails to annoy me. Bonuses are taxed at a different rate, some of which I'll get back with my tax return. But that's just giving the government a free zero interest lone which is ridiculous.
interesting- hard to conceptualize the numbers, but looks like i'm in the opposite boat. anytime i get a bonus though it hardly feels like it.. about 50% is gone.
My bonus came as a separate check & 37% of it was taken out for tax withholding. Filing jointly my usual tax bracket is 22%. So that extra 15% I wont get back until my tax return. Comes out to about $3,000 that the government gets to hold onto without paying a penny in interest. Every year I try to dial in my tax withholding as close to perfect as I can, I'd rather owe the government a couple bucks than them give me money back. Every dollar they keep represents lost earnings in the market.
Our office will raise the bonus amount so you get a nice round number. For example, the bonus is around $1,250 to make sure you get the full $1,000 in take home pay. Their view is the bonus amount they agree on should be the take home amount. It's rather nice!
That is nice. Personally I'd settle for a manila envelope full of cash.
Chad, that's nice. It's nice to not be feeling short changed because of government's taxes taken out.
RJ87, I agree. That's nicer than non-secured checks that could bounce if the party who writes the checks have insufficient funds and the bank decides to triple wham and hit me with a bounced check fee three times which they also do to the other party with a overdraft fee three times. Banks are EVIL (at times).
I've had it both ways and while those large bonuses/profit sharing were very nice, I prefer higher salary over the year.
square: percentage of salary. The target each year is 20%. We got zero last year and I think the fat bonus this year was a way of making up for that, showing appreciation for everybody working to get the firm through the lean time.
Back in the mid 00's, Gensler would make people job offers with "guaranteed bonuses", a set amount you would get as at a future date later in the year. I never learned why exactly they did it, but for the employee, it was working for deferred compensation.
Anyone going to make the connection between the govt holding onto your excess tax withholdings as being a zero interest loan, and your employer paying you less in a salary to give you a big bonus as a zero interest loan too?
EA, not all offices are the same. Many won't know what, if any bonuses they can give out until very close to the end of the year. Taxes, payroll, consultants, rent, software, debt, all have to be paid out before bonuses, while making sure there enough left to start the new year without taking on more debt. So no, that's not typically the case that they just have some account that's earmarked for bonuses.
EA - When I say "less" I don't mean to say they pay us poorly in the meantime. I could probably make 5k-10k (pushing it) elsewhere maybe at this point, but they give me between 10-20k as a bonus. So the math is in my favor if you want to think of that delayed comp as bearing interest. Beats what I'd make putting it in the market.
EA - there is a simple solution for this. Just don't pay any taxes and don't take a paycheck for doing architecture. Problem solved! ;)
end of what?????
I decided to take this out of the replies to tduds comment. Seems like it could be it's own side discussion.
I appreciate the comments bowling_ball and RJ87. I'm not trying to say it's bad or good ... I'm simply saying there is a connection to what people often complain about when the government does it with withheld taxes. Something to be aware of and understand the implications for you personally is all.
My personal opinion is that I'd rather have the money in my paycheck throughout the year than a big fat bonus that isn't guaranteed. I've seen people burned by it before when they were counting on that money and the firm made the decision that they couldn't pay out bonuses, or pay out "as big as normal" bonuses. "A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." I also realize I'm viewing this completely from a worker's perspective. An employer gains an advantage over the employee by holding out that enticement of a big bonus check. I myself have contemplated sticking around at a job longer than I'd wish to, just to make sure I could get that bonus.
Agreed. If I could get them to add 20k to my base salary & take no bonus I would in a heartbeat. But then I'd look overpaid in 1 number instead of making them add two numbers together to realize it.
I'm also just jaded when it comes to taxes anyways, so it skews my perspective.
In case anyone was wondering about how things played out when I was contemplating sticking around longer so I could make sure I got my usual end of (fiscal) year bonus from that previous firm. When I made the post below, I still had a couple of months before I really made up my mind to leave. I would have had to wait another few months to ensure I received my usual bonus.
I decided to let that not guaranteed bonus go and take a new job. I did use the fact that I was leaving a few months before our typical bonuses would be paid out to negotiate a signing bonus with the new firm.
So by the end of 2019 I basically got triple bonuses (end of old firm's fiscal year bonus, new firm signing bonus, and new firm end of calendar year bonus) plus around a 40% increase in salary with a new job at a better firm. YMMV.
I get it. If you've had a bonus before, it's understandable that you'd expect it in the future. But it's called a bonus for a reason. It's typically discretionary, you really shouldn't count on it
This year's bonus was $5k less than the pay cut I took for a year to help us make it through COVID. Oh and they also received a bunch of PPP loans, but I guess not enough, because they still had to cut everyone's pay?
There’s your sign to leave.
You guys hiring?
We are. How much experience do you have?
Yep, we're hiring.
@Chad - I'm not in Colorado but I must say, the Western Slope is beautiful. Anyhoos, 11 years and counting...
If you ever want to move to Colorado you're welcome here AA!
From Golden. Would love to move back I just need to sucker, I mean convince, someone to offer me relocation benefits.
The firm I work at is open to that - IE they've done it for other past new hires.
Found out this afternoon that this year's bonus will be a little more than 6% of my salary. Which is in line with what they gave me two years ago. No complaints.
Got an 8% bonus this year, and have a discussion at the new year about raises (crossed fingers on that one). No complaints here.
Received a bonus equal to 5% of salary. This is my third year with this firm and so far that number has been typical. However this year we also received a bonus after Q1 which was equal to about 2% of my salary so overall a bit of an increase.
We don't typically get year end bonuses, ours are in march. Same with raises. I think I've averaged ~10% raise each year, and maybe a 4% bonus. it got a little messed up with covid though, as they held raises for almost the entire year of 2020. Given market opportunity they would be wise to do more for just about everyone in our office this year, but it's never that simple
Biggest bonus I've ever had by many times over. But I'm the boss AND the best employee I got so it makes sense.
Thanks for the reminder.
I was going to buy myself a laser cutter as my bonus, but haven’t yet.
I haven't received shit! Plus I get to work a full day on Xmas Eve... WTF!
Lot of places hiring right now!
Can't believe your firm is not observing Christmas on Christmas Eve this year. One way or another, they're paying people to not work that day because come on - we all know what happens.
Come work with the firm I'm at OLA! We're closed from Christmas Eve through New Years.
We always have a full day on the calendar for christmas eve but they "surprise" us every year by closing at lunch so I never use vacation time for it. We're fortunate this year, the office will be closed the entire week after Christmas. That's new for us.
RJ8 - that's what we used to do. The new owners were just like 'look, we all know it's going to happen, we'll just make it a holiday'.
We bring people in on Christmas Eve morning for coffee and Bailey's, then send them home at lunch, at the latest. Full shut down until the new year. People need a break and aren't going to be productive over the holidays anyway
Similar to BB here too. Half day paid for hourly staff by default and full day paid for those that come in for the morning booze.
We'll typically do something similar, a "surprise" half day that's mostly spent wrapping up emails and cracking open gift baskets from consultants. Since Christmas is a Saturday this year, we're getting the Friday as a holiday. Early start to the holiday week!
Sorry to hear that OneLostArchitect. Our office is the same as some others where we are getting Christmas Eve off in observation of Christmas (and New Years Eve in observation of New Years Day.)
The firm surprised us this year with the week between Christmas and New Years as paid holidays.
I've gotten <10 bonuses in my life (26 years in architecture and 10 years in other jobs before architecture). I've only worked at one firm that gave them every year - other firms only gave them occasionally if they'd had an exceptionally good year.
Frankly, I'd much rather have my salary set appropriately and forego bonuses and "incentives" altogether. If I wanted my compensation based on the firm's performance (as opposed to my performance) I'd be self-employed.
I did get an iPad one year, that was nice. And a nice-ish pen with a signed note from the CEO when I got my license (rollerball, though, not a fountain pen).
$500 bonus this year. Owner said that he figures the hourly staff don’t really need a significant bonus since they get paid for ot. I’ve got about a month on the manager side, so hoping for big money next year
Around 4% bonus, and 10% raise.
Canada here, have been with this company for 2 years in an entry level position.
Got a 4% bonus. Thought I was going to get only a 1.5%. I'm very happy.
Writing cheques right now, 15 % across the board to everyone.
Nice to hear from the good bosses every once in a while.
Only couple of Hundos, WTF. On the other hand, the pay doesn't suck.
I got a canned ham.
At least they didn't can your ham. I have a friend that was laid off right before Christmas a few years ago.
Wait, hold on? Aren't you your own boss and vegan? You got screwed.
I'm working two jobs. I should've put quotes around my "gift", it was an Amazon gift card, $100.
We handed out 6% bonuses this year. And due to a COVID infection of a staff member, we sent everybody home a week earlier than normal. I mean, they're supposed to be working until Friday at noon but I'm not going to check in and neither will anybody else.
So yeah, free extra week of holidays for everyone. Merry Festivus everyone
Bumping this like I did last year. This thread reminded me of it (https://archinect.com/forum/th...), but also wanted to build on the history contained here so it's easier to look back on previous years' end bonus discussions.
Sometimes a year changes perspective, but reading my replies from last year I still feel exactly the same lol. I'd still rather have a higher base pay, but the bonus more than makes up for it on a yearly basis.
Bonus this year was equivalent roughly 20% of my salary. I took on a different in the 4th quarter of last year & sustained it through this year so I had planned on asking for a raise at the end of this year. Ended up getting a 21.5% raise to go along with it.
Our bonuses have always been a higher proportion of total comp than what's typical elsewhere. I'm more excited about the fact that my monthly cash flow / base salary is getting up there. Should kick in next paycheck & makes budgeting easier.
Congrats!
Have any of my Canadian brethren/sistren(?) dug into the RAIC survey they just published? Was interesting to see compensation and bonus structure across different geographic areas. From memory, salaries in Ontario are very low, with large bonuses. We do it the opposite in the prairies. I can't remember the West coast details except that they met my own experience - you're all underpaid.
We give out small bonuses. This is mostly because, as we've now had validated by two different sources, we are paying well above market (like a ridiculous amount). Having said that, nobody has left in almost 7 years now.... Crazy
You referring to the practice benchmark publication they charge $250 for? I don’t think we participate or even subscribe to those.
I think that's the one. We participated and apparently one of my partners is a member so we got it for "free"
Ive also never heard of this. But I'm only OAA, not RAIC. If you feel like sharing some salacious details for Ontario (GTA) and Quebec (MTL) i'd be very grateful ... sorry im not going to the prairies :(
Sexy voiceover: “ no one wants to go to the prairies”.
Bench, only reason I am a RAIC is because 2 of my offices founding members are fellows and were strong in the syllabus stuff (despite my vocal criticism of it). RAIC dues is like 400 loonies per year but I can expense it. Not sure what it does other than add even more letters to the email signature.
Canadian Architect did a great series of articles, diving into the major parts and actually giving away much of the info
https://www.canadianarchitect.com/tag/benchmark-2023/
Thanks BB!
NS - I my equivalent membership down south, only because of geographic living situation. Not sure it really does much; more than anything they seem to have given my email to a database of product suppliers who spam me nonstop now.
The one convenience is that they constantly have free online learning modules to get those CE credits finished.
Will report back. Been with a new firm for a year. Past firm base salary was 72,000, June bonus of 15,000+ generally and holiday bonus of 2,500, stock and awesome 401k plan. New firm (smaller) with an increased based salary of additional 13,000. culture has been amazing. Access to thoughtful clients and rewarding projects. Life balance is unbelievable and taken such a burden off my mental health and physical health. I do know some hard financial times recently but hoping that does not blow the raise and bonus opportunities.
With all the insanity going on, I do hope everyone on this forum takes a moment to pause and give yourself some space at the end of another wild year to take stock of everything. We are in a notoriously difficult profession and more often than not we put everything in our lives on pause or the back burner to get things done for everyone else. You deserve it. Happy Holidays to everyone!
My bonus this year is having a profit for my first 7 months in business and a pretty positive outlook based on projects already signed for 2024.
Way to go!
$800 for my holiday bonus this year. About the same as last year. This is just a holiday bonus though. The big end-of-year bonus will come in a few months once the financials and performance reviews and raises are all decided and wrapped up.
Following up on this even though I'm late in doing so ... total bonus from last year was just about 11.5% of my base salary.
Raise given out at the same time was 5% increase.
My net profit for the year is 19%, on top of a salary that is roughly what I would make as an employee doing similar work, so that's kind of like a bonus. Except that I've already spent most of it during the year as owner's draws. So I guess the bonus is knowing that I made a decent net profit for the year.
The bonus is the friends you made along the way.
"I'd like to thank everyone I stepped on to get where I am today!"
Nothing this year (hard year for the firm). Luckily I got a 15% increase in salary jumping to my current firm from my previous last year. We are also pretty busy in our office but other offices are not quite so. Will be an interesting beginning to the year that's for sure.
Don't usually get year end bonuses, normally get raises and bonuses in Feb, expect about 3% of my salary and probably 7% raise.
Starbucks, McDonalds, and a Zara gift card.
No Puma?
Crossing my fingers!
Gifts or targets for your Molotov cocktail beta?
A woman never tells
Betting targets given the food approximate menu options at McDonald's.
I received a $3,200 bonus and a 5% raise.
I got the BESTEST bonus of zee year, and none of you can top.
I've been pulled onto a bid package, set to go out tomorrow, AND it looks like it's a 50% DD set!!
The PM have notice.
And I might get a company gift card, for $66!!!
Don't think we're receiving a bonus this year. I'm leaving for my vacation tomorrow and it hasn't been brought up. Little odd, but I think it would be weirder for me to bring it up unprompted, right?
Nvm got a bonus right there at the end. 6%. Nice.
4% Lame-ass bonus even though projects my teams worked on make really good profit. Other work dragged us down big time.
I got a lower percentage than that. Then again, our firm pays higher salaries and doesn't use bonuses to make up for low base pay.
Same canoe as Chad for us. Xmas bonus is the same for everyone, management included. A pouch of 1000 loonies regardless of project performance. But then again, we pay our staff so no one has to rely on bonus to round out their compensation.
Our firm pays well compared to the market, but the hours we work are insane compared to most firms. So the pay rate sucks ass.
So, they don't pay well at all.
right
I’ve always been of the mind that you should pay well and a bonus is just that, a bonus. Money you can do fun/stupid stuff with because you’re not using it to balance your household budget due to lower yearly pay.
And unscrupulous types will rob people by forcing out or firing them right before the bonuses are supposed to be handed out.
No year end this year. Yet the partners ask why our teams don't constantly want to work late for out-of-scope work to satisfy their whims, and also wonder why our turnover is high...
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