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Year End Bonuses

187
sameolddoctor

Are you getting a Bonus for 2018? How much? Plz speak up!

I'll go first : We are getting a big fat Zero.

 
Dec 14, 18 6:34 pm
Formerlyunknown

$5000 bonus,12.5% raise.  That's just about the same as last year, but the year before that I got nothing.

Dec 14, 18 6:40 pm
5839

12.5% raises 2 years in a row = 26.6% increase in salary. That's pretty good without jumping ship to a new firm. Did it come with some promotion in responsibilities? Were you drastically underpaid 2 years ago?

Formerlyunknown

i wasn't underpaid before, and my role hasn't changed much. I think it's just an issue of the firm having a couple good years and trying to make up for a bad year before that (in which those of us who weren't laid off were lucky).

LITS4FormZ

Firm did well this year and thanks to the tax cuts they’re bringing back 401K matching. Everyone received their yearly bonuses so a Merry Christmas for all

Dec 14, 18 6:59 pm
sameolddoctor

Oh we got a 4-5% raise in the firm, but yeah, no bonuses.

Dec 14, 18 7:36 pm
Non Sequitur

%4ish raise at the end of October, expecting the typical xmas bonus next week.  Was not happy with raise tho and will revisit the subject in the new year.  Too many office politics atm with 2 founding partners looking at retirement within a year (or 2).

Dec 14, 18 8:57 pm
OneLostArchitect

A bonus!? What’s that? No bonuses at the gig I’m currently at. Ever! I’m actually getting screwed as I found out what some of my coworkers are making in comparison to me... and I’m licensed and they are not. So scratch me in for a big fat zero. Previous job used to hand out 3k for Christmas and 3k around 4th of July week. I had to move near the GTA region and I took a big hit going to this current job salary wise. Salary has be stagnant for a long while... I finally did get a raise this year which equated to less than 50 cents a year since I started. Yes you heard me right. Plus they told me I am lucky to have a job with them. I’ve never felt like a useless piece of shit in a toilet bowl ready to be flushed down in my life. My confidence is at an all time low and have been pretty depressed about life in general and the architecture profession. 

Dec 14, 18 10:15 pm
tintt

:( now is the time to find a new gig! New year, new job, new life!

poop876

I had to check the date on this comment because if a firm is stating that you are lucky to have a job in this market, you ought to go somewhere else. We've been swamped for past 7 years and we've been struggling finding people. And I truly believe we are paying staff some good money. Perhaps it's not the "best" projects, but it's projects.

randomised

Wow, look for something else, and do it quickly. Instead of blowing off steam on archinect update your CV and portfolio and start sending out applications asap, maybe Kanye is still hiring.

tintt

Since I'm a contractor for a few different places I don't think I get bonuses. I guess it could happen. I don't expect anything though. 

Dec 15, 18 9:33 am
poop876

We paid all of our employees (12) 4k bonus before tax this past weekend and 10% increase staring next year. Perhaps some deserved it more than others, but I thought we should reward them all. 


Dec 16, 18 7:30 pm
OneLostArchitect

Wow that’s awesome! Happy to see that some employers take care of their employees.

Rusty!

One nifty trick to use in order to minimize bonuses given to employees is to not talk about profitability but instead talk about meeting goals. 

Set unrealistic goals, don't meet them. Another tough year. No bonus!

Dec 17, 18 10:31 am
thatsthat

We typically get bonuses a few times a year (4k before taxes for my level) but no raises.  Raises only come every other year or every few years, but they typically make up for the salary discrepancy with 3-4 bonuses per year sprinkled around.

Dec 17, 18 10:42 am
JLC-1

you mean tips?

Dec 17, 18 11:18 am
tduds

19% cash + 10% 401k match.

Employee ownership has its perks. Only a 3.5% cost of living raise this year, but I'm expecting a promotion in 2019 so I'm hopeful...

Dec 17, 18 1:39 pm
molten

$6500 bonus; 8.5% raise.

I hope the current gravy train makes it to 2020. 

Dec 17, 18 3:33 pm
joseffischer

$3500 bonus; 28% raise with caveat... it was a 12% raise but two separate job offers landed in my lap and my current firm matched.  Remember folks, when those head hunters call, be nice and don't be dismissive.  

The firm is currently throwing higher tier and way more work at me to make it up, and so far I'm swimming.  

Dec 18, 18 3:35 pm
Volunteer

Yes, but now you have a bar sinister running across your escutcheon for entertaining other offers.

whistler

I am handing out 10 - 12 % bonuses ....... translates to about $7,000.00 to $8,000.00 for most. ( small office )

Dec 18, 18 4:10 pm
mightyaa

$2000....  :/  Not even half a paycheck.

Dec 18, 18 5:26 pm

I'm inclined to say that an employer shouldn't even bother with a bonus if it isn't more than your regular paycheck ... but I'll take anything they give me. I'm also the type of person that would rather not get a bonus, if it meant that instead I receive a larger regular paycheck.

Non Sequitur

typical annual $1k over here. I’ve got colleagues who get more but don’t have their overtime paid out.., which I do, so considering that, happy for any bonus.  It’ll cover my daycare costs for the month.



Dec 18, 18 7:17 pm

I got ~20% raise plus an $8k bonus earlier this year (end of our fiscal year). We don't get anything for end of calendar year.

Off topic, but I'm finally getting closer to where I think I should be salary-wise. Also thinking about quitting to make a move somewhere else. I'm happy with the workload, project types, my role, and generally the people I work with ... just tired of certain coworkers that refuse to learn from past mistakes, some passive aggressiveness from leadership, and a lack of specific support from leadership. I doubt it is better anywhere else I'd end up, but that doesn't stop me from dreaming about greener pastures.

Dec 18, 18 7:55 pm
Non Sequitur

If I were to write a paragraph like yours... it would be identical (minus the part about the raise and bonus). Which means, it's the same everywhere. 8-)

mightyaa

Mine would be similar... except add that the principals are disconnected from the staff and where are actual challenges are. Hence the passive/aggressive since they just see something went amiss but didn't bother even talking to staff about the chain of events creating the issues.

Yeah, I'm fully aware most of that isn't going to be better elsewhere. The thing that really has me contemplating a move is the lack of specific support from leaders.

randomised

This entire bonus culture is just to not have to pay a decent base salary and have people slave to get what they should have gotten in the first place. It brings competitiveness and greed into a job that should be about collaboration. You basically pay for your own bonus or your bonus comes from your colleague not getting theirs.

Dec 19, 18 2:56 am
Non Sequitur

Communist!

tintt

cOMPETITIVNESS AND GREED IS WHAT MAKES THIS COUNTRY GREAT!

Non Sequitur

.

randomised

?

molten

@randomised I agree. I basically told my employer I was willing to forgo a bonus if it means I get a higher base salary. They said no because "people like getting fat checks at the end of the year/we don't want to change our firm culture".

tduds

How does it bring competitiveness and greed?

randomised

Because helping your coworkers means increasing their chances of getting that fat bonus and decreasing yours. It leads to people not wanting to share their knowledge/expertise or even trying to sabotage each other just to stay ahead. It turns your coworkers in competitors for that bonus while you should be working as a team towards common/shared goals, in my opinion at least.

Non Sequitur

Great pick-up there Rando.

tduds

That's a terrible way to structure bonuses. Every place I've worked where bonuses have been offered they've been proportioned by seniority / tenure (an objective measure) and not "performance" (a bullshit measure). 

A year-end bonus should be about sharing profits, not selectively rewarding some sense of individual achievement (especially in this industry where such a thing doesn't exist). 

tduds

Just because something is implemented badly (although, I've yet to see an example in my personal experience of this implementation) doesn't mean the thing itself is bad.

Steeplechase

Working with and helping colleagues is part of how our bonuses are determined because a firm should work together.

Our bonuses definitely work more the way tduds describes than what randomised describes. I'm sure there is some discretion in giving someone a slightly smaller or larger bonus based on their individual effort, but it's a team effort across the entire firm. If the firm does poorly, everybody's bonus suffers ... conversely, everybody benefits if the firm makes a good profit.

sameolddoctor

I vote for better pay AND better bonuses. Whats wrong with that?

randomised

When people rely on a bonus, it's a necessity and it means regular pay is off. It's like waitresses depending on tips to make a decent pay because their salary is too low, I'm with Mr. Pink on this one. Sure, you do a good job so you can get your bonus...it's simply your job to do a good job in my opinion. And doing a good job should be paid accordingly obviously. Bonus culture is what basically lead to the last global economic crisis. And also, places that offer bonuses, in general offer lower salaries AND try to do more work with less people on staff. Making the staff that is there work harder by dangling that potential bonus in front of them, putting in those extra hours, working harder and harder, don't want to miss out on that bonus, management is laughing all the way to the bank...

sameolddoctor

I said that I vote for Better Salary AND Better Bonus, randomised. Which part of that wasnt clear?

tduds

Maybe my experience is unique but none of what randomised said up there matches with my experience.

randomised

Sameold, you were very clear and so is tduds. I just think it's kind of funny/ironic...just do an archinect search about the low pay within the field/profession and then take a look at bonus culture. Or is complaining about low pay reserved for after the holiday season when that short lived bonusbizzz wore off?

randomised

*bonus buzz

tduds

I don't "rely" on the bonus, but I do appreciate it. 

Further, if my bonus were simply distributed into my paycheck throughout the year, it wouldn't overcome the chronic underpayment of the industry overall (which, frankly, is based more in the fee's we're able to command more than the wages owners decide to pay, and a result of the larger global economic culture more than the internal industry culture)

Like sameold said: better pay AND bonuses.

newguy

Remember, comrades:  A bonus is just a small portion of the surplus profit you earned throughout the year for the company from your labor that they withheld from your salary.

joseffischer

Newguy gets it

joseffischer

It stings more when you realize the people collecting profit sharing as owners still also get a bonus out of the employee pool/piece of the pie, AND that bonus is bigger because of their seniority! It's like, how many ways can we split the profit. I'm reminded of a cartoon skit as follows:

1 for you, 1 for me
2 for you, 1 and 2 for me
3 for you, 1, 2, and 3 for me

bowling_ball

I might jinx it, but I think I might find out today. Typically we get anywhere from 1 to 2 paychecks. This year we might not get anything, with the excuse that the office underwent about $1M in renovations (which was needed and I appreciate, but shouldn't be coming out of my bonus). 


Wish me luck

Dec 19, 18 8:33 am
sameolddoctor

...and?

bowling_ball

Big fat fucking zero. Which is totally unusual as I say. Combined with the entire office not receiving any raises this year, despite a very stressful and successful year, I'm not overly impressed.

Non Sequitur

Hey, no fat-shaming allowed.

sameolddoctor

Oh crap, maybe stressful and successful year in terms of projects, but not billing?

bowling_ball

Maybe a bit of both. I'm sure billables were fine, but we bought and renovated a new building so we had those bills. I'm sure the owners didn't take it from their incomes. It's not really my business, I'm just bummed out.

joseffischer

Yeah, you've got to do some crazy amount of work to make up $1M in renovations from profit alone... we do like $20-25M in revenue, I don't think we've topped more than $3M in profit and on bad years, that $1M would put us in the red for the year.

Wood Guy (Mike Maines)

No bonus here, the boss is a jerk. Also the boss is me.

Dec 19, 18 2:49 pm

You should take that up with HR

Wood Guy (Mike Maines)

Oh I have, and he's not happy either. It's a sh!t show over here.

curtkram

hmm. trying to parse this out. the employee and HR are upset with the boss. is the boss upset with the employee and HR, or is he just rolling in the benjamins while the alternate personalities fight it out?

shellarchitect

Where does the wife figure in? I usually consider her my boss

mightyaa

Too bad it isn't a family firm. My threat was always "I'm not making enough and will have to move back home with you..." /payraise incoming :P Unfortunately, it worked in reverse when I took the reins and my parents became employees....

Wood Guy (Mike Maines)

@curtkram, this year the boss didn’t make any money, so he’s justifiably upset. But he’s the one who decided to start a new business venture that failed rather spectacularly, and is just taking it out on his steadfast employees.

@shellarchitect, she has been supportive but would have preferred some extra money. We are equals, and she has her own small business to run. (If anyone is looking for last-minute Christmas gifts, it’s too late, but you can get New Years’ gifts here: https://www.ridgepondherbals.com/. Hand-crafted, with many ingredients grown on our farm.)

@mightyaa, your family firm comment is funny--the thing is that what really screwed things up for me was the construction business I started with my brother earlier this year, formally dissolved a few days ago. If anyone can figure out how to work with family members, I am in awe. (And debt.) Fortunately things are looking up—I’m booking design work into summer 2019, with some great projects (net-zero modern farmhouses) and have also started a construction business on my own which is doing well so far.

curtkram

net-zero farmhouse actually sounds like a lot of fun. good luck!

shellarchitect

Current firm usually gives out a couple hundred at the end of the year, didn't even notice it the first year

Dec 19, 18 7:03 pm

My very first ever year end bonus was a whopping $50. They probably spent more than $50 on the overhead to first decide how much to give me, get the bookkeeper to issue the check, stick it in an envelope, package it with the others for our office, overnight it to the office, and have the principal hand it to me during an associated year-end performance review.

tintt

I can beat that. I got a single digit check once.

geezertect

^ I would have saved the check as a reminder.

tintt

I won't ever forget. The lesson was actually invaluable.

Was the lesson to be more competitive and greedy?

tintt

I guess you could say that. I don't know. The bonuses were figured on profit. I was on unprofitable (difficult) projects. I happened to spend a few random hours on a highly profitable job, thus the single digit check. Bread and butter makes money. Complex and custom doesn't.

geezertect

I hope you're not still at that firm. You shouldn't be penalized because the project was complex, if the unprofitability wasn't because of what you personally did. Management is supposed to control jobs and structure fees to cover costs plus profit. Client and project selection is their responsibility. Basing the bonuses on individual projects incentivizes people to avoid anything difficult. Dumb.

tintt

I am not. Thanks.

shellarchitect

got $500 today, apparently had half of it go into my 401k, so a little over $200

starling
$15,000 bonus this year, up from the usual $10K since I got a promotion this year. A lot of that went to whittling down those pesky loans.
Dec 20, 18 12:11 am
G4tor

Nothing. But then again, I did start my current job a month ago. So... I guess my 12% bump could be considered that. Otherwise, had i stayed at my previous firm, about 1k.

Dec 20, 18 7:01 pm
bowling_ball

Was with my bosses at a dunch (drunk lunch) when one asked if I'd gotten job offers from other firms (which I have) and I answered honestly. He seemed to be caught a little off guard, so there might be room to negotiate in the new year, after all. 


On the other hand, I'm tempted to just show up for 90% of my work week as that's all I'm getting paid for anyway. Wish me luck.

Dec 21, 18 12:17 am
LITS4FormZ

Sounds like it’s tike to bounce. Congrats on the offers. New year, new gig

bowling_ball

We'll see. The other side of the coin is that in my day-to-day work, I'm treated quite well and I know from what I gather from my peers at other firms, I'm paid very well (even though it sometimes doesn't feel like it). So we'll see. I'm keeping my options open for 2019.

ShakeyDeal

$1000. Wasn’t expecting to get one. So win win.  It’s all about lowered expectations.

Jan 2, 19 10:30 pm
Chad Miller

$5k but that was the amount of unpaid overtime I did if I where paid straight hourly beyond 40 hrs a week (no time and a half).


Nov 6, 19 7:14 pm
archi_dude

15.5k. Tis the season!

Dec 30, 19 9:37 am
sameolddoctor
Zero again
Dec 30, 19 10:06 am
b3tadine[sutures]

same

Funny reading my post from last year and seeing how it played out. I ended up leaving that last firm. New firm gave me a year-end bonus of a little more than 7% of my salary. Last firm also gave me a bonus at the end of their fiscal year (same as the year before). I also got a signing bonus with the new firm. Not bad. 

Dec 30, 19 11:09 am
kenchiku

Worked as a co-op student for the last 5 months of this year.  Got a $250 bonus.

Dec 30, 19 12:25 pm
atelier nobody

Of the firms I've worked in, fewer than half gave any more than a token ($500 or so), a couple gave them only in exceptionally good years, and only two gave them every year. My current company is employee-owned, so whatever we don't get in bonuses should show up in the value of our ESOP shares.

Dec 30, 19 1:26 pm
Formerlyunknown

I got the same 5k bonus as in past recent years.  This year's bonus was 2%, which is much lower than in the past 2 years - I'm not sure what the reasons were this year or in the past.  

Dec 30, 19 1:39 pm
atelier nobody

If 5K is 2%, you're makin' some bank.

RickB-Astoria

If he's a principal of a firm that's doing good. I can see that.


At a salary of $250k I too would be curious why I'm only getting $5k as a bonus ... see my previous comment about bonuses that are less than a typical paycheck ... lol. 

I'm assuming you meant to say that this year's raise was 2%? If not, can you let me know what you do, who you work for, and if they are hiring?

Formerlyunknown

Sorry, typo. I got a 5k bonus, and yes, I got a 2% raise. In past recent years I have also gotten a 5k bonus, but a larger raise (around 12.5%). What I meant was I don't know the logic behind the large-ish raises of the past 2 years, and why this year's was cost-of-living at best.  

RickB-Astoria

So it is not 2% of your income but the amount of the bonus is 2% more than last year's bonus. I would assume you mean that last year's bonus was ~$4900 (approx.) to now be ~$5000 (give or take a little).


Formerlyunknown

No. I mean that this year's bonus was $5000. So was last year's, and so was the year before's. My raise was 2% of my current salary. Last year and the year before my raises were 12.5% of my salary in that year. My profit sharing for all of those years has been 3% of my salary.

Formerlyunknown

Let's say my salary in 2017 was $100,000. My raise that year was $12,500, my profit sharing was $3000, and my bonus was $5000. In 2018 my raise was 14,062.50, my profit sharing was 3,375, and my bonus was $5000. In 2019 my raise was 2531.25, my profit sharing was $3796.88, and my bonus was $5000.

Kudos on adding the raise to the base salary for the subsequent year's calculations. I cringe when I see people get this wrong. This is why learning math is important people.

midlander

fu - did you ask your boss? that's kind of the standard way to understand raises and performance. most likely your firm either had a poor year, or you've come close to the limit for your position and need to get a promotion to move beyond COL raises.

mtdew

5% bonus after 4 months at the new job. I'm satisfied.

Dec 30, 19 2:52 pm
Non Sequitur

my 2019 bonus was 2.5 times more than my 2018 one. Yay. 

Dec 30, 19 8:24 pm
RickB-Astoria

congrats. Nice to have at this time of the year.

tduds

0 * 2.5 = 0?

Non Sequitur

^ Ha. It's a small but decent chunk of cash. OT is paid out to all staff so it's not a performance or hours worked basis. I get my first look at profit shares in 5 months from now. That one should be decent, likely low 5-figure range.

tduds

Profit share is where it's at (as long as your firm is profitable).

archiwutm8

Nothing.

Dec 30, 19 8:42 pm
bowling_ball

A 5% bonus this year, which is in line with previous years (last year's goose egg notwithstanding). It's not a lot but it's not terrible either. Helps pay some bills over the holidays...

Dec 30, 19 11:11 pm
athensarch

~$1k. Wish it were higher. I have former college classmates getting $5k/quarter. And their base is higher than mine.

Dec 31, 19 7:43 am
poop876

I gave out bonuses equal to two paychecks! 

Dec 31, 19 8:45 am
kjdt

Are your paychecks weekly, every 2 weeks, twice monthly, or monthly?

poop876

Bi-weekly

My year end bonus: I’m still upright and taking solid food. Life is good!

Dec 31, 19 10:24 am
RickB-Astoria

Aren't you the owner of your business and it is up to you to decide whether you retain the earnings in your business or take some of it as a draw as you see fit.

If this was the point [ ] ... 














Rick is way down here missing it.

RickB-Astoria

If you are looking at the screen from pluto, it is not that much of a distance apart.

PS: Happy blipping New Years!

Are you looking at it from Pluto? Didn't think so. HNY

RickB-Astoria

Maybe if your address is:

10 Charon Orbit
Pluto, Sol Solar System
Milky Way Galaxy

Try to have a sense of humor. In this galaxy, always know where your towel is and have it with you. 


Non Sequitur

Ricky, the answer is 42. Also, pluto is not a planet.

My sense of humor is just fine. Maybe if your jokes were funny ...

RickB-Astoria

dwarf planet is still a planet. Just as dwarf humans are still humans. Damn it don't be so discriminatory N.S.

RickB-Astoria

Why is the word planet in the name? Why not just call it an orbiting natural object (ONO). Right. It may no longer be considered a "major planet" (the classical planets). When the definition of planets were originally created, the definition of a planet was much simpler than the IAU which created a definition for major planets to be distinct from the minor planet as a discriminating tool just like we make up classifications to discriminate between people. The underlying mechanism is discrimination. The word discrimination predates the modern use and meaning of the word as used in social justice based on its historic definition of "an act of making or perceiving a difference". The problem falls into the classification system. We have gas planets, rocky or relatively solid planets and then we have Pluto which is a small sun orbiting natural object. Even planets may not have a gravity is they stop rotating. I'm sure we have a lot to learn about the universe and types of planets. Why not a Pluto and other such objects be planets... maybe minor or dwarf planets but so be it. They are planets but a sub-category as we has larger planets (usually gas planets like most of them past the orbit of Mars and the Asteroid belt. The Asteroid belt may be a broken planet and maybe some day re-join together but not for awhile in our foreseeable future. What if Earth was shattered into a billion pieces. How do we define what exactly a planet is? It seems to be a little messy and what processes makes Earth doesn't all apply to say..... Jupiter. A very different kind of planet.

RickB-Astoria

ONO or would be SONO (Star/Sun Orbiting Natural Objects) which would fit just about everything in the gravitational orbit around the sun that is natural (versus artificially formed by "intelligent life" like our space junk and space stations or space probes.

I'm okay with SONO as that would be appropriate broad delineator with objects that orbits a SONO like a moon. 

Non Sequitur

I like centaurs.

Rick complains that IAU creates a definition for planets, and asks how we define what exactly a planet is in the same post. Um ... IAU creates those definitions buddy. 

What about Eris Rick? It has more mass than Pluto. Why don't people consider it a planet like they do with Pluto? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dwarf_planet#/media/File:Masses_of_the_dwarf_planets.png

RickB-Astoria

IAU didn't exist until 1919 and definitions for the word planet predates United States which was derived from French which itself was derived from the Latin word 'planeta' which itself was derived from Greek. "When Eris, an outer body more massive than Pluto, was discovered, the International Astronomical Union (IAU) officially defined the word planet as above. However, a significant minority have refused to accept the IAU definition." ( https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/planet ) As you may know, the IAU definition as of current is complicated and even problematic as it is applied only to our solar system but not others which would make for a scientifically problematic because such a word for planet should be defined and applied to all solar systems including so called "exoplanets". IAU didn't defined 'planet' until 2006. I am sure that this categorical system will continue to be refined as we look at how to categorize planets and the term 'planet' in general and then you have planet types which may be more scientifically grounded to include distinguishing characteristics like gaseous planets being planets like Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus and Neptune and then you have rocky planets like Mercury, Venus, Earth, and Mars. Then you have planets like Pluto and some others which albeit are small but 'icy' or whatever as we learn more about how Pluto works with recent discoveries. Dwarf planets would be a size categorization versus anything else. 

The definition of Planet: (by IAU)

The International Astronomical Union (IAU) defined in August 2006 that, in the Solar System, a planet is a celestial body which:

  1. is in orbit around the Sun,
  2. has sufficient mass to assume hydrostatic equilibrium (a nearly round shape), and
  3. has "cleared the neighborhood" around its orbit.

The third definition is actually quite problematic. If you think about it, even Earth is scientifically effected by the gravitational forces of other planet even Jupiter. Mars is more so and a planet at the Asteroid belt orbit zone would be even more effected possibly why the asteroids failed to fully form into a singular spheroid object orbiting around the sun. Pluto maintains the first two definitions but because Pluto is as small as it is compared to its neighbor, it's orbit can be effected more when its neighbor Neptune gets as  close as it does that it warps the orbit. The same can happen to Mars if Mars was closer to Jupiter. 

Non Sequitur

Ricky, Pluto is not a planet. Give it a rest.

I don't think you understand point 3.

RickB-Astoria

dwarf PLANET is still a planet. Planet was defined before IAU even existed. The third criteria implemented in IAU's chosen definition of "planet" in 2006 which was not the basis of the definition of planet for over 125 years. Even scientists debates the argument and they should refined the categorization as major planets and minor planets (or dwarf planets) but the generic word 'planet' be an umbrella word for both types. So maybe Pluto wouldn't be the 9th PLANET but that our solar system consists of 8 major planets and many more smaller minor planets. Minor planets are planets as is the major planets but major planets. That is why there is controversy with the IAU's definition as it is currently applied. Logically in grammar planet is the noun even in the case of "dwarf planet" as "dwarf" is the adjective. I think they should modify the definition and prepend 'major' to the current definition of planet where all three is considered major planets. While dwarf planets or "minor planets" would meet only two of the three. Then the definition of planet be defined as a celestial body that is either a "major planet" or a "minor planet"/"dwarf planet". I think the "dwarf" part can be problematic. In time, even Pluto's orbit may no longer drift into Neptune's orbital path zone around the sun as the planets spreads apart. If you study other solar systems, big giant gas planets can even throw a planet twice as large as Earth into a chaotic elliptical orbit similar to Pluto when then get close enough. Funny thing is IAU explicitly pertains to this solar system. It should be noted that IAU is not a government agency so it isn't law, either. You and I are not bound to follow or agree to IAU's current definition which is somewhat problematic. It is problematic when it isn't applied to all solar systems. The IAU were originally established to name the objects in the solar system. Now, it wasn't established or did they established the definition of planet. This was not defined by them until they decided to take it upon themselves to do so in 2005. 

To EA, what about Eris? I would consider it a planet, potentially. I can see a definition for "major planets" which Pluto and Eris might not fit the definition but all "major planets" and "minor planets" would be planets. I can see a scrutiny to delineate major planets from minor planets but to say minor planets are not planets is an arguable debate that is still on-going. I can except that our solar system has 8 major planets and numerous minor planets. We can certainly have 9, 10, 11, or even 12 'planets' or more as we discover them. I'm not opposed to Eris being considered a planet as with Pluto. Eris was only discovered in 2005 so we haven't known about it for that long. Who says we only have 9 planets. Only that 9 planets had been discovered until Eris. Maybe that's 10. What about Ceres? It's a young planet. Earth at one time was like it and grew to what it is now. Ceres might not grow as big as Earth due to lack of mass in the Asteroid belt if it really clears up the belt some day. What is contentious about the "clearing the orbital neighborhood" is that nearly all the planets would fail that test because we have NEOs and they have similar across the solar system. Lets not forget also comets that criss crosses several of the planets orbital path. Hey, Jupiter had a comet that went right into it. There are numerous such objects in the solar system. There's ~20,000 or so NEOs. How many around near mars objects? Who knows. We probably haven't exactly been keeping such a track. There's over 13,000 known MCAs. Some of them also maybe NEOs.

N.S., even our planet hasn't completely cleared the orbital neighborhood and the definition is flawed. 

Non Sequitur

Ricky, there are many people much smarter than you (and I) who have a better grasp of the definition. I get that it's nearly impossible for you to understand but they do, and the current international scientific consensus is well established on this subject. The only "debate" in this area is by dumb Americans who have a childish attachement to Pluto.

NS, well said. 

Rick, you're simultaneously stuck in the past and trying to foresee the future. If the basis of your complaint is that these things didn't use to be called dwarf planets ... well, welcome to 2020. And if the basis of your complaint is that the definition could be improved ... well, you're welcome to submit your reasons to the international community and try to change it. Science changes all the time. What we knew in the past has evolved and consequently so do the definitions and meanings of words. What we will know in the future is not yet known so can't really be used as the basis to claim that the current definition is flawed. Also, you really don't understand the 'clearing the neighborhood' thing.

Non Sequitur

Pasting a wiki link does not show you understand the subject.

Pasting a quote from the wiki link also does not show you understand the subject.

RickB-Astoria

If you know the history of IAU's definition stems from Alan Stern and Harold Levison's paper for planetary classification. Basically, IAU mucked up the categorical system. These two researchers were not trying to define what a planet is as the IAU did which stirred up a controversy. Here's the Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Stern and here's the link to the paper: https://www.boulder.swri.edu/~hal/PDF/planet_def.pdf What they were classifying was that ALL sub-stellar objects in hydrostatic equilibrium. Then the planets would be categorized as uberplanets and unterplaners. You can compare that to major and minor (dwarf) planets. IAU politicized it somehow. Had the IAU approached the categorization system closer to Stern & Levison's paper even if they changed the name from uberplanet and unterplanet to major planet / minor planet but that the definition of planet would include both "uberplanets" and "unterplanets". This obviously stirred up a controversy that still persist. Alan Stern's & Harold's Levison's classification wouldn't have been a problem. We would have 8 uberplanets and numerous possible unterplanets for a total of 12 or more possible planets. I'm okay with that. If a dwarf planet is not a planet then why use the word "planet" in "dwarf planet" vs calling it something else.

According to the IAU, a "dwarf planet" is not a "planet." Semantically, you need to understand that in this case "dwarf" is not being used as an adjective to the noun "planet." Rather "dwarf planet" is a compound noun.

RickB-Astoria

Grammar issue aside...... As for IAU, they based it on Stern and Levison's paper and then screwed it up. Have a read of this: https://www.space.com/12710-pluto-defender-alan-stern-dwarf-planet-interview.html

RickB-Astoria

While I don't have a problem with breaking the categories of planets like the major planets and the minor planets (or dwarf planets) or uberplanets and unterplanets but that all of them are planets. Funny thing that IAU uses the word planet in the name category that they call planets like Pluto. Even as a compound word of the adjective word (dwarf) and the noun word "planet"... the root noun word is planet just as the root noun in monthly ticket is ticket and the root noun in swimming pool is pool. Think about it.

Bench

Are you studying for those exams yet? Seems like a better use of time than arguing with strangers on the internet about the classifications of planets?

Rick, as I stated already, IAU is not using “dwarf” as an adjective to the noun “planet.” They are using “dwarf planet” as a two-word compound noun that, in this context, cannot be broken down into separate words to mean what it is you are trying to make it mean. Given your lack of rigor when it comes to grammar, I don’t expect you to understand this. Take Bench’s advice and spend your time studying for your exams.

RickB-Astoria

Yes, bit by bit as the posts are intermittent anyway. Good point though. It is probably not the best use of time but conversing nonetheless breaks the monotony of some days which are somewhat slow at this time of the year. Just for the extra joy throughout the month of February..... jury duty (Circuit Court - Clatsop County). I can't get out of it apparently. Got that notice today.

5839

Guinea pigs are neither pigs nor from Guinea. Jelly beans, peanuts, spreadsheets, and shuttlecocks are among the thousands of other things that *most* people understand are not named literally. Ancient Greek word roots aren't good foundations for arguments in the present.

RickB-Astoria

E_A, just because they are trying to use it as a two-word compound noun, it is still improper grammar because "dwarf planet" is not a compound noun in English language. Dwarf planet is saying exactly the same thing as "small planet" because dwarf is a synonym of the word 'small' and is not a noun in the form of use. Too bad English isn't regulated like French.

Sorry Rick, but language evolves. When the IAU made the definitions for "planet" and "dwarf planet" they explicitly did so to make dwarf planets not planets. It's a mess linguistically (and maybe even astronomically), but it's the best we have at the moment. Again, if you'd like to take it up with the IAU, feel free to do so on some other forum.

Edit to add something in terms you apparently understand: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_planet#Semantics

RickB-Astoria

IAU is not a government so why should I give a shit about their definition especially when it is politically driven by one school of thought by a society that has very little planetary astronomers who specialize in planetary studies. When a key author of the very research paper that was the basis of their definition and used to established the definition doesn't agree with IAU's approach because they didn't really follow the paper properly. Alan Stern and Harold Levison were creating two categories of planets in this paper: ( https://www.boulder.swri.edu/~hal/PDF/planet_def.pdf ). They were not saying pluto would not be a planet. Also you might want to spend time and read Alan's position on the matters: https://www.space.com/12710-pluto-defender-alan-stern-dwarf-planet-interview.html

5839

What happened to your promise to take your diversions to new threads, rather than derail the originals? Make a "Pluto is a Planet" thread for anyone who wants to argue this with you.

RickB-Astoria

Fair point. Lets move it to there if possible. I'll work on creating that thread and put a link to point people to further discuss it there. NOTE: I didn't start this dialog exactly aside from a Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy joke reference. N.S. began the debate on this thread with "pluto is not a planet". I didn't even use the word planet in reference to Pluto prior to that point in the thread.

OneLostArchitect

0.6 % bonus. 

Dec 31, 19 11:13 am

Just transferred jobs in July, so my bonus was big 0. Which is understandable. But coming from a job where i got 6,000 bonus and 50% raise over the year. It really stung.

Also i asked around and the bonus here are not even a full check, somewhere around 250 bucks for some who have worked for 2 years here, and raise is not even 2% to keep up with inflation. I made more in my bonus and raise while in school as intern first 2 years lol.


happy holidays everyone.

Dec 31, 19 1:55 pm

How little were you making that you got a 50% raise in a year?

Non Sequitur

What's 50% of $0 when you're working as free labour?

When they start throwing raises like that at a person, it just confirms that they've been drastically underpaying them. I'm thinking it was something like $12/hr up to $18/hr. Make it rain!!!

Archlandia
I get quarterly bonuses/profit sharing. It’s about a months salary before taxes.
Jan 1, 20 12:51 pm
Almosthip7

I got a gift card to Canadian Tire......

Jan 2, 20 12:49 pm
atelier nobody

Hey, a new set of tires for the Canadian winter is nothing to scoff at.

Non Sequitur

It should have been in canadian tire paper money... in 5cent bills.

Image result for canadian tire paper money

Almosthip7

there is an app for that now

Chad Miller

I think I went to school with that guy/\

Chad Miller

For me I'm paid for the overtime I've done as a bonus.  I only did 120 hours of OT this year so the  bonus was OK.

Jan 2, 20 1:57 pm
poop876

Getting paid for the work you did and legally should be paid for does not count as bonus.

Hear, hear! Though the issue in that statement is the word "legally." Exempt employment in the US doesn't legally require compensation for OT. Take out the word "legally."

poop876

I'm not talking about exempt positions, but if an employee is getting paid for overtime, that time should be paid time and a half!

I guess my point is that you should be getting paid for all your work regardless of employment status. Exempt employees are not (usually) getting paid for hours they work beyond 40/week. I'm assuming Chad is exempt and his "bonus" is that the employer is paying him for this OT that they are not legally required to pay him for. If Chad is non-exempt then the employer would already be required to pay for the OT and it could not be considered a bonus. I agree with you on the time and half thing.

Chad Miller

You are correct EA. In Colorado if you have a professional degree and oversee anyone's work you an exempt from being paid overtime. I think that due to the labor laws in Colorado it's common for firms to operate like this. Some even go so far as to say an intern is exempt from overtime.

archi_dude

I feel like making it mandatory to pay for all hours worked would be a much more effective way to reduce income inequality than tax grabs.

Chad Miller

I agree. I find the view of 'well it's a bonus because I didn't HAVE to pay you by law' bullshit. In my opinion the idea of a bonus is to signify the firm thinks you've done such a good job they are willing to share profits with you.

tduds

Cash bonus was a little less than last year, but shareholder dividend more than made up the difference.

I was able to pay off the wedding debt, so that's a nice way to begin 2020.

Jan 3, 20 3:36 pm
RickB-Astoria

awesome... nice way to begin 2020 for sure.

poop876

Wedding debt? That is the dumbest shit ever!

RickB-Astoria

Don't worry tduds, the only wedding that poops will have is with the flies that circles poops.

poop876

While balkins is pretending to build decks some have huge careers, businesses, family and kids! You still live with your parents dude and spend your time on discussion boards.

RickB-Astoria

You have no self respect to have a huge career, businesses, family and kids. Have you asked if I want to have kids? So I live here because if I don't the house wouldn't necessarily stay in the family. The house is actually quite a nice house. If I left, then the house would end up being sold. 

On a computer that has two monitors and the ability to run dozens of programs at the same time, I could easily spend time writing a post on a forum while also running a rendering. If I am running my own business in a house in a commercially zoned property where such uses are outright permitted in the zoning laws, I can have time to write posts. I'm not under the clock of an employer's established office hours. I get to set my own hours. 

This is somewhat a slower time of the year for residential and commercial building design and renovation design projects in the area due to winter and holiday season. Am I saying I am building decks? Am I saying, I am practicing as a construction contractor? I don't need to in this state to be a construction contractor to design projects. I have education that encompasses hands on construction and did some of that from time to time. This doesn't mean I was contracting to do construction services, either. Do yourself a favor and shut up. 

I also do work in computer field. For example, when compiling or doing some 3d modeling and rendering work for a software project, the time that takes to render and the CPU overhead of those processes may limit what else I can be doing on the computer at the same time without impacting rendering time. What I can tell you is the overhead of replying on a post on a forum isn't going to stop or make significant impact on the rendering time or compiling time. What are you going to do other than staring at a computer screen watching the compiling or rendering progress 'bar' move along. It isn't like the people around me here would be necessarily conducive for dialog while that is happening.

Yeah, I might post on the forum while these other things are happening on the computer.

RickB-Astoria

Could I also be studying material of the ARE? Yes. In fact, I do in an off and on basis at this moment in time. What you can't really see is I am not always at the computer so you can't always tell. You can extrapolate from the date/time stamps of the posts when I am at the computer to a point. You can't tell exactly if I am away from the keyboard.

poop876

Holy shit!

5839

Again: Rick you promised that if you were going to go on these all-about-Rick rants you would make your own threads to do it. It doesn't matter who started it or why: just take it to a dedicated all-about-Rick thread.

^ Does Rick have the ability to make new threads? I've told him twice before to make a thread called "Uncle Ricky's Data Upload to get your Mind Blown" where he can post all he wants to give his advice and knowledge in one place where it would be most helpful. For a while he was trying to post disclaimers but if he kept everything in the "Uncle Ricky's Data Upload to get your Mind Blown" thread, he could have one disclaimer at the top to cover everything contained within it. Seems like a win win for everyone, most of all Rick.

tduds

Car Debt is the dumbest shit ever. My wedding was a blast.

Chad Miller

Weddings are fun! My better half is good with money and we paid for our wedding in cash. It helps if you hold the wedding in a state with no sales tax. :)

Non Sequitur

We put the entire reception bill on credit-card, then paid it off in cash immediately. Collected travel points, got free honeymoon plane tickets.

poop876

Non, hilarious....that is exactly how we did it as well. I think we still have some points to the Hyatt.

Chad Miller

We did the same.

tduds

"the only wedding that poops will have is with the flies that circles poops." I missed this earlier. This is objectively Rick's funniest post.

I still think the one he had about suspended lights that looked like boobs in TC (back when he could post in TC) is his funniest post. You can see a reconstruction of it here in my SEP 2, 16 2:28 PM post.

tduds

lol I'd forgotten about that thread. Good stuff.

Non Sequitur

EI, we need that tread permanently on the top of the forum. So good.

There is plenty of material out there to keep it going. Feel free to resurrect it. Distilling the dwarf planet thing above would be a good one to add.

archeyarch

record profits = you paid less

Jan 14, 20 11:30 pm
Chad Miller

Is that like the underpants gnomes from South Park?

Phase one, steal underpants.

Phase two, ?????

Phase three, BIG PROFITS! 

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