I would not recommend anyone joining the AIA. Its a joke and just a money machine. When I was an intern I tried to get a couple of firms to sign my idp hours. They were lazy/busy and never really would sign very many of them. This is a violation according to the AIA cannons. The AIA said as long as the companies were paying their dues there was nothing they could do. At that point I realized that that the AIA was a money machine and after talking to many colleagues, about 30% are not members for similar reasons. $660/yr is a lot for a magazine.
Not a fan of AIA. The one thing they do though that now has value to me is maintenance of continuing education records and standardizing with most States. If I was just registered in one State, it isn't worth it. But I should be registered in 20 States by year end (currently just 5) and me keeping those records and updating every State will be a pita.
Which gets me to NCARB; $400 per transfer just to pull the file (which is all they do for $225 per year). You'd think for those fees they'd also track the application. At least the transfer fee is a one time thing, but it is still painful knowing all they are doing is hitting send on a file I provided every chunk of information contained in there which they also charged me to do.
Both organizations are just jumbo marketing firms selling their data and standards to agencies. It isn't about selling 'architects' it is about selling that they have a minimum standard to gain their certifications and forcing us to pay them to prove we meet those standards. The AIA puts a spin on it, and adds spectacle and pomp like the fashion industry strutting our best designs down the runway... but at their heart; they are selling standards (contracts, data, etc.).
Jun 13, 18 1:21 pm ·
·
mightyaa
@Rick; They are setup on some sort of sophisticated email with notifications. You get notifications of your order, your receipt, and when it was sent. What you don't get; Automatic filling out of applications even though several are identical. You don't get to have them store additional information almost every State requires like criminal record search if you've ever been convicted (even expunged, including misdemeanors). You don't get them being proactive about just following up once the transcripts are sent.
They do at least have a button for each of the sent ones that you click once you get your license to add the number and expiration dates to your NCARB account. I'm also hoping their system will send reminders when licenses are going to expire
Jun 13, 18 6:47 pm ·
·
kjdt
NCARB doesn't keep track of certificate holders' statuses with other states anyway. They rely mostly on the annual self-reports. It's possible they may spot-check some % of records to actually verify the info with the states, but I know for a fact that they do not do this for all certificants or for every transmittal. There was a person I know who had their license revoked in another state, due to some criminal activity. That architect just never reported that to NCARB, and kept checking off that their license was still valid and they hadn't been arrested (both false) and was able to move to another state and use their NCARB record to get hired as an architect in the new state. That person's NCARB certificate still showed up as valid on that "Is Your Architect NCARB Certified" page for years afterward. I emailed NCARB about it and got back a response that they couldn't do anything about it directly and I'd need to "report it to their state". But the person was no longer licensed in any state, so to what state would one even report that?
Jun 13, 18 7:04 pm ·
·
kjdt
And no, NCARB's system does not send reminders of your upcoming license expiration dates. They do show that info on your page on their site, but then you'd have to remember to check that. I find the calendar on my phone is better at reminding me.
Jun 13, 18 7:11 pm ·
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BulgarBlogger
Mightyaaa -
Jun 13, 18 9:05 pm ·
·
BulgarBlogger
I assime
Jun 13, 18 9:06 pm ·
·
BulgarBlogger
I assume you do rollout and big box retail for you to be registered in 20 states...
Jun 13, 18 9:06 pm ·
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mightyaa
@Bulgar... lol, no. Expert Witness stuff, peer review, disaster assessment, insurance, etc. Projects in CA, MI, FL, ND, TX and CO right now. Not glamorous big box... just more red pencil and reports sort of work :P
Jun 13, 18 10:55 pm ·
·
BulgarBlogger
Beats low end retail... im licensed in CA, HI, and NY
Jun 13, 18 11:16 pm ·
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shellarchitect
I believe the professional memberships and fees at NCARB subsidize the exam costs
Jun 14, 18 8:39 am ·
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Wilma Buttfit
The exams are written by volunteers, administered and graded by computers. Many people take them 3 or more times. Subsidy?
Jun 14, 18 8:45 am ·
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shellarchitect
I guess i'm just parroting ncarb, I have no idea how accurate that really is
Jun 14, 18 8:50 am ·
·
Wilma Buttfit
Dangerous.
Jun 14, 18 8:55 am ·
·
Steeplechase
Prometric isn’t volunteering to administer the exams. The computer systems that deliver and grade the exams need to be maintained.
I used to think so too. Then we got a last minute exemption from the recent tax overhaul, and lots of sole practitioners dodged a huge tax increase. Lobbying is expensive.
Jun 13, 18 8:53 pm ·
·
archi_dude
I agree I feel guilty about not contributing to the lobby effort that keeps the profession recognized as a profession but my issue is the multiple multiple people who say, “architects deal with code and get jurisdiction approval?! Wow that’s incredibly integral.” Some public outreach beyond “look up” that reinforces us as in competition with houzz and Pinterest would be nice.
I've repeatedly said I'd pay if it weren't for the requirement that you join every sub group applicable. I shouldn't be required to join, and pay more, at the state level if I want to be a national member. That's just bullshit. Oh and then we have regional chapters. And we're supposed to pay there. No, nope, not gonna happen.
I get zero benefit from any of the social aspect of the AIA. The closest meetings are almost 2 hours from my home. So, my benefit is AIA forms, continuing ed (which would be replaced by some other system should they stop certifying courses) and whatever supposed lobbying they do.
i agree that the costs are outrageous for the average architect, no wonder the average member is 55 years old.
The social aspect is important, when I was laid off from a giant EA firm back in 2010 I knew almost no one in the profession. Most of my graduating class had left the state and I knew no professionals outside of that work place. The AIA helped me make contacts at a very wide variety of firms. Between the aia and constant job hopping I think I have pretty good access to most of the architects in Detroit.
I'm no longer an AIA member, can't justify $600, but I'm still on a committee and attend maybe one event a year. I think most people assume that I'm still in the AIA, I'm not shy about no longer being a member either.
The awarding of FAIA fellow status by AIA national has become a travesty. Some of the most incompetent and unethical people in my chapter have been elevated to fellow status in the past 5-6 years.
I'm seriously considering joining the Society of American Registered Architects (SARA).
Jun 14, 18 11:28 am ·
·
JBeaumont
There's a whole field of consultants who put together FAIA applications. It takes 2 years to get through that whole process, and a ton of work - really hard for the small or 1-person firms to do unless they pay someone to do it for them.
Jun 14, 18 6:29 pm ·
·
thisisnotmyname
Yes, the FAIA application process definitely favors well-funded applicants. They have relaxed the qualifications: AIA national told my local chapter that they "wanted to give out more FAIAs" and that the AIA national has an informal quota of giving each chapter 2 new fellows each year. In the old days, FAIAs were handed out much less frequently and very qualified people would be turned down regularly.
Yes, NCARB and AIA, dumb and dumber. Ever notice all the questions on the ARE exam about the AIA. Since when do you need to know about the AIA cannons or even a member to be an Architect.
Jun 14, 18 12:48 pm ·
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JBeaumont
The only ethics or canons question I recall from the exams were about NCARB's code, not AIA's. The questions pertaining to AIA were all about contracts and other standard documents.
One piece of advice if you do want to join the AIA and can't afford it: call your local chapter ask for a hardship discount. The chapters have leeway to grant discounts, or even total forgiveness, if you have a good reason - such as unemployment, underemployed, serious illness, unemployed spouse, ill family member, etc. They may try to bargain with you, so you might not get to be a member for free, but you can talk your way to a decent break. If the chapter recommends a discount then the national AIA usually gives you the same % off the national dues. I did that twice when I'd had periods of unemployment during a previous year.
Jun 14, 18 6:35 pm ·
·
shellarchitect
that's a good idea. I guess could afford it, I guess I just don't want to.
Jun 15, 18 9:46 am ·
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thisisnotmyname
My local chapter would laugh in my face if I asked for a discount. Because of high costs, just about all of the sole practitioners have dropped out of my chapter in the last 5 years. The overwhelming majority of people left are mid and upper level people from big firms that pay the dues for them.
I am SICK of the BS that the AIA represents. It's stands like a statue in a decaying temple on some Greek island. The profession can be much more, and solve more of humanity's problems. Fees belong to AIA are too much, and Architects in business like myself really do not get much of a value, unless you consider gathering with other Architects, Lunch and Learns, and going to home tours to be fair justification. But really, I want AIA to be more like a Union for Architects, helping us be a stronger group of business people within our seeming ever-expanding bureaucratic society. How about getting behind a push to lawmakers for permit streamlining measures such as mandated digital plan submissions across every city. Further, I reflect on the post above by how much AIA rakes in. What do they do with all that money? Perhaps, instead of merely presenting theories about dealing with Homelessness at AIA 19, they might actually help fund a solution with all the money they make on the convention tickets alone. AIA=bloated beurocracy!
If you join, you can volunteer your time to push the organization to focus on the issues you want it to. Or you can complain from the sidelines while people who *do* join volunteer their time to make it what *they* want it to be.
Feb 28, 19 12:08 pm ·
·
kjdt
On the national level I don't know all of the things AIA does with that money. On the local level I know my AIA chapter uses the money for: scholarships and travel grants for students; grants for community projects; workshops for architects and the public; addressing legislative issues - sending representatives to meet with state and federal government, and distributing information on those issues; code education; education on the roles of architects for AHJs and the public; study guides for those studying for the ARE; social activities; programs in the public schools about sustainability and building science; donations to local community causes. If there are other things you'd prefer your AIA was spending on, get involved and propose those things.
Feb 28, 19 12:34 pm ·
·
thisisnotmyname
My local AIA chapter prefers to spend its money on travel for staff and board members to attend various trade shows and AIA events. Our annual officer nominations and elections are quite shady and have essentially rigged outcomes.
Feb 28, 19 12:45 pm ·
·
eeayeeayo
thisisnotmyname: you should check your chapter's rules. Most chapters have nearly identical rules (because they're based on a template provided by AIA's lawyers) and they let anybody nominate officers at the elections at the annual meetings. So even if your chapter's nominations are rigged you can bust that if you go to the meeting and stand up and nominate someone else (or yourself) and enough people vote with you.
Feb 28, 19 1:06 pm ·
·
Witty Banter
The AIA does push/lobby lawmakers. In fact next Wednesday is Grassroots 2019 Capital Hill Day. Members from all over the country will have opportunities to meet with lawmakers to push issues that AIA members have collectively selected to focus on. The AIA also successfully lobbied some language into the 2017 Tax Cuts. AIA membership isn't for everyone and the value can certainly vary based on location/chapter (I've experienced both sides of this). That being said a lot of the criticisms I see are based on faulty/lack of information.
I've said it before: Don't make me join on three levels. $279 for national membership is fine. But total fees for membership of over $700 is bullshit. Local chapter does absolutely nothing for me. I'm not convinced the state chapter does much. Their "lobby" seems pretty nonexistent. I do appreciate the creation of continuing education and some of the lobbying done at the national level. And I'll pay for that. But I'm not about to fork out over $400 for the lower levels.
Feb 28, 19 4:30 pm ·
·
Flatfish
I agree it's unreasonable that if you're in Massachusetts it costs $900 but if you're in North Dakota it's under $500. States should all standardize their dues - or maybe weighting them somewhat would be ok, based on average architect salaries in that state compared to average in the US, or something like that. Joining local/regional chapters should be entirely optional.
Feb 28, 19 5:14 pm ·
·
JBeaumont
Everybody should just get a mail forwarding service and use an address in North Dakota, Vermont, or Alaska. AIA will start wondering why membership has swelled in those places.
Feb 28, 19 5:35 pm ·
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thisisnotmyname
AIA dues should be a percentage of an individual's earnings. If you earn peanuts, you only have to pay peanuts. It would get the young and lower-income segment of the profession back into the organization. Supplemental dues charged to firms for non-AIA member employees should be flushed down the sh*tter as well. It's ludicrous that firm owners have to pay AIA dues for admin. and non-technical employees. Staff of that type derive no benefit whatsoever from the AIA. It's just straight up robbery.
Feb 28, 19 7:14 pm ·
·
eeayeeayo
Supplemental dues for firm owners were abolished decades ago at the national level. But it's still up to individual chapters whether to keep doing that at the local level. Most chapters don't do that at all anymore, and even those that do usually limit it to just licensed staff who aren't members. Maybe if your chapter heard from a lot of firm owners that they would join if those dues were eliminated, maybe they'd be swayed to rethink that practice. All chapters are allowed to offer hardship discounts too. There's a form you can fill out to ask for a discount on your chapter and national dues for un- or under-employed, illness, among other reasons.
Not joining the AIA
I would not recommend anyone joining the AIA. Its a joke and just a money machine. When I was an intern I tried to get a couple of firms to sign my idp hours. They were lazy/busy and never really would sign very many of them. This is a violation according to the AIA cannons. The AIA said as long as the companies were paying their dues there was nothing they could do. At that point I realized that that the AIA was a money machine and after talking to many colleagues, about 30% are not members for similar reasons. $660/yr is a lot for a magazine.
$800+ for my chapter. And the Look up campaign? Totally makes owners rethink hiring a CM or contractor to spearhead a project....not.
$600 a year times the 90,000 membership is $54,000,000 a year or $4,500,000 a month. Life is good.
Would you care to discuss the NCARB take? Or the NAAB income that is baked into the school's tuition?
I believe that the AIA has made direct efforts to equate membership to professional registration which is just wrong.
Not a fan of AIA. The one thing they do though that now has value to me is maintenance of continuing education records and standardizing with most States. If I was just registered in one State, it isn't worth it. But I should be registered in 20 States by year end (currently just 5) and me keeping those records and updating every State will be a pita.
Which gets me to NCARB; $400 per transfer just to pull the file (which is all they do for $225 per year). You'd think for those fees they'd also track the application. At least the transfer fee is a one time thing, but it is still painful knowing all they are doing is hitting send on a file I provided every chunk of information contained in there which they also charged me to do.
Both organizations are just jumbo marketing firms selling their data and standards to agencies. It isn't about selling 'architects' it is about selling that they have a minimum standard to gain their certifications and forcing us to pay them to prove we meet those standards. The AIA puts a spin on it, and adds spectacle and pomp like the fashion industry strutting our best designs down the runway... but at their heart; they are selling standards (contracts, data, etc.).
@Rick; They are setup on some sort of sophisticated email with notifications. You get notifications of your order, your receipt, and when it was sent. What you don't get; Automatic filling out of applications even though several are identical. You don't get to have them store additional information almost every State requires like criminal record search if you've ever been convicted (even expunged, including misdemeanors). You don't get them being proactive about just following up once the transcripts are sent. They do at least have a button for each of the sent ones that you click once you get your license to add the number and expiration dates to your NCARB account. I'm also hoping their system will send reminders when licenses are going to expire
NCARB doesn't keep track of certificate holders' statuses with other states anyway. They rely mostly on the annual self-reports. It's possible they may spot-check some % of records to actually verify the info with the states, but I know for a fact that they do not do this for all certificants or for every transmittal. There was a person I know who had their license revoked in another state, due to some criminal activity. That architect just never reported that to NCARB, and kept checking off that their license was still valid and they hadn't been arrested (both false) and was able to move to another state and use their NCARB record to get hired as an architect in the new state. That person's NCARB certificate still showed up as valid on that "Is Your Architect NCARB Certified" page for years afterward. I emailed NCARB about it and got back a response that they couldn't do anything about it directly and I'd need to "report it to their state". But the person was no longer licensed in any state, so to what state would one even report that?
And no, NCARB's system does not send reminders of your upcoming license expiration dates. They do show that info on your page on their site, but then you'd have to remember to check that. I find the calendar on my phone is better at reminding me.
Mightyaaa -
I assime
I assume you do rollout and big box retail for you to be registered in 20 states...
@Bulgar... lol, no. Expert Witness stuff, peer review, disaster assessment, insurance, etc. Projects in CA, MI, FL, ND, TX and CO right now. Not glamorous big box... just more red pencil and reports sort of work :P
Beats low end retail... im licensed in CA, HI, and NY
I believe the professional memberships and fees at NCARB subsidize the exam costs
The exams are written by volunteers, administered and graded by computers. Many people take them 3 or more times. Subsidy?
I guess i'm just parroting ncarb, I have no idea how accurate that really is
Dangerous.
Prometric isn’t volunteering to administer the exams. The computer systems that deliver and grade the exams need to be maintained.
I used to think so too. Then we got a last minute exemption from the recent tax overhaul, and lots of sole practitioners dodged a huge tax increase. Lobbying is expensive.
I agree I feel guilty about not contributing to the lobby effort that keeps the profession recognized as a profession but my issue is the multiple multiple people who say, “architects deal with code and get jurisdiction approval?! Wow that’s incredibly integral.” Some public outreach beyond “look up” that reinforces us as in competition with houzz and Pinterest would be nice.
*as not in competition with
seriously? that low... :)
I've repeatedly said I'd pay if it weren't for the requirement that you join every sub group applicable. I shouldn't be required to join, and pay more, at the state level if I want to be a national member. That's just bullshit. Oh and then we have regional chapters. And we're supposed to pay there. No, nope, not gonna happen.
I get zero benefit from any of the social aspect of the AIA. The closest meetings are almost 2 hours from my home. So, my benefit is AIA forms, continuing ed (which would be replaced by some other system should they stop certifying courses) and whatever supposed lobbying they do.
i agree that the costs are outrageous for the average architect, no wonder the average member is 55 years old.
The social aspect is important, when I was laid off from a giant EA firm back in 2010 I knew almost no one in the profession. Most of my graduating class had left the state and I knew no professionals outside of that work place. The AIA helped me make contacts at a very wide variety of firms. Between the aia and constant job hopping I think I have pretty good access to most of the architects in Detroit.
I'm no longer an AIA member, can't justify $600, but I'm still on a committee and attend maybe one event a year. I think most people assume that I'm still in the AIA, I'm not shy about no longer being a member either.
The awarding of FAIA fellow status by AIA national has become a travesty. Some of the most incompetent and unethical people in my chapter have been elevated to fellow status in the past 5-6 years.
I'm seriously considering joining the Society of American Registered Architects (SARA).
There's a whole field of consultants who put together FAIA applications. It takes 2 years to get through that whole process, and a ton of work - really hard for the small or 1-person firms to do unless they pay someone to do it for them.
Yes, the FAIA application process definitely favors well-funded applicants. They have relaxed the qualifications: AIA national told my local chapter that they "wanted to give out more FAIAs" and that the AIA national has an informal quota of giving each chapter 2 new fellows each year. In the old days, FAIAs were handed out much less frequently and very qualified people would be turned down regularly.
Yes, NCARB and AIA, dumb and dumber. Ever notice all the questions on the ARE exam about the AIA. Since when do you need to know about the AIA cannons or even a member to be an Architect.
The only ethics or canons question I recall from the exams were about NCARB's code, not AIA's. The questions pertaining to AIA were all about contracts and other standard documents.
The AIA is a members only club. Pay your dues and you too can be a member.
One piece of advice if you do want to join the AIA and can't afford it: call your local chapter ask for a hardship discount. The chapters have leeway to grant discounts, or even total forgiveness, if you have a good reason - such as unemployment, underemployed, serious illness, unemployed spouse, ill family member, etc. They may try to bargain with you, so you might not get to be a member for free, but you can talk your way to a decent break. If the chapter recommends a discount then the national AIA usually gives you the same % off the national dues. I did that twice when I'd had periods of unemployment during a previous year.
that's a good idea. I guess could afford it, I guess I just don't want to.
My local chapter would laugh in my face if I asked for a discount. Because of high costs, just about all of the sole practitioners have dropped out of my chapter in the last 5 years. The overwhelming majority of people left are mid and upper level people from big firms that pay the dues for them.
I am SICK of the BS that the AIA represents. It's stands like a statue in a decaying temple on some Greek island. The profession can be much more, and solve more of humanity's problems. Fees belong to AIA are too much, and Architects in business like myself really do not get much of a value, unless you consider gathering with other Architects, Lunch and Learns, and going to home tours to be fair justification. But really, I want AIA to be more like a Union for Architects, helping us be a stronger group of business people within our seeming ever-expanding bureaucratic society. How about getting behind a push to lawmakers for permit streamlining measures such as mandated digital plan submissions across every city. Further, I reflect on the post above by how much AIA rakes in. What do they do with all that money? Perhaps, instead of merely presenting theories about dealing with Homelessness at AIA 19, they might actually help fund a solution with all the money they make on the convention tickets alone. AIA=bloated beurocracy!
#goodbye AIA, #ArchitectUnion
If you join, you can volunteer your time to push the organization to focus on the issues you want it to. Or you can complain from the sidelines while people who *do* join volunteer their time to make it what *they* want it to be.
On the national level I don't know all of the things AIA does with that money. On the local level I know my AIA chapter uses the money for: scholarships and travel grants for students; grants for community projects; workshops for architects and the public; addressing legislative issues - sending representatives to meet with state and federal government, and distributing information on those issues; code education; education on the roles of architects for AHJs and the public; study guides for those studying for the ARE; social activities; programs in the public schools about sustainability and building science; donations to local community causes. If there are other things you'd prefer your AIA was spending on, get involved and propose those things.
My local AIA chapter prefers to spend its money on travel for staff and board members to attend various trade shows and AIA events. Our annual officer nominations and elections are quite shady and have essentially rigged outcomes.
thisisnotmyname: you should check your chapter's rules. Most chapters have nearly identical rules (because they're based on a template provided by AIA's lawyers) and they let anybody nominate officers at the elections at the annual meetings. So even if your chapter's nominations are rigged you can bust that if you go to the meeting and stand up and nominate someone else (or yourself) and enough people vote with you.
The AIA does push/lobby lawmakers. In fact next Wednesday is Grassroots 2019 Capital Hill Day. Members from all over the country will have opportunities to meet with lawmakers to push issues that AIA members have collectively selected to focus on. The AIA also successfully lobbied some language into the 2017 Tax Cuts. AIA membership isn't for everyone and the value can certainly vary based on location/chapter (I've experienced both sides of this). That being said a lot of the criticisms I see are based on faulty/lack of information.
Excellent responses, everyone!
I've said it before: Don't make me join on three levels. $279 for national membership is fine. But total fees for membership of over $700 is bullshit. Local chapter does absolutely nothing for me. I'm not convinced the state chapter does much. Their "lobby" seems pretty nonexistent. I do appreciate the creation of continuing education and some of the lobbying done at the national level. And I'll pay for that. But I'm not about to fork out over $400 for the lower levels.
I agree it's unreasonable that if you're in Massachusetts it costs $900 but if you're in North Dakota it's under $500. States should all standardize their dues - or maybe weighting them somewhat would be ok, based on average architect salaries in that state compared to average in the US, or something like that. Joining local/regional chapters should be entirely optional.
Everybody should just get a mail forwarding service and use an address in North Dakota, Vermont, or Alaska. AIA will start wondering why membership has swelled in those places.
AIA dues should be a percentage of an individual's earnings. If you earn peanuts, you only have to pay peanuts. It would get the young and lower-income segment of the profession back into the organization. Supplemental dues charged to firms for non-AIA member employees should be flushed down the sh*tter as well. It's ludicrous that firm owners have to pay AIA dues for admin. and non-technical employees. Staff of that type derive no benefit whatsoever from the AIA. It's just straight up robbery.
Supplemental dues for firm owners were abolished decades ago at the national level. But it's still up to individual chapters whether to keep doing that at the local level. Most chapters don't do that at all anymore, and even those that do usually limit it to just licensed staff who aren't members. Maybe if your chapter heard from a lot of firm owners that they would join if those dues were eliminated, maybe they'd be swayed to rethink that practice. All chapters are allowed to offer hardship discounts too. There's a form you can fill out to ask for a discount on your chapter and national dues for un- or under-employed, illness, among other reasons.
If I don't join, how will I ever get to become a F.A.I.A., and win awards and Gold medals at the county fair?
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