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architect responsible for updating contractor management program?

archeetart

as an architect, should it be our responsibility to update/upload drawing revisions in the contractors project management program or should the contractor be responsible for updating the drawings?

situation is a contractor says it is my responsibility to load drawing revisions into their Procore.  my opinion is it wasn't my decision to use Procore and its not my responsibility to update the drawings in Procore.  Admittedly, i have no idea how to update the drawings and it could be less steps than sending a dropbox link, but wanted to get others opinions.  it is not included or excluded in our contract regarding updating project management software.

 
Jan 19, 18 9:40 pm
mantaray
This has come up a lot in my projects and I take the firm position that it is 100% in their court, for this reason: they are responsible for keeping their subcontractors up to speed on the most current drawings at all times. I never want to get in the position where, bc it's their software, something I've done doesn't work right and then someone first have the right drawing. It's a potential liability issue in my mind. When I upload s revised drawing in response to an RFI on Pro-Core, my responsilbility has ended. The GC then replaces that sheet in the separate "current drawings" area and informs whichever subs he needs to that the new drawing must be downloaded and followed.
Jan 19, 18 10:26 pm  · 
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What does your agreement say? If nothing specific in the agreement, what does the General Conditions say? If nothing specific in the General Conditions, what does Div 01 say? If nothing specific in Div 01, you should do what mantaray says ... then find someone to review your agreements and write your specs on future projects.

Jan 20, 18 1:56 am  · 
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RickB-Astoria

.

Jan 20, 18 6:00 am  · 
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RickB-Astoria

You're not responsible for running, administering, or otherwise the Procore system that is used by the contractor. If the contractor is using Procore, fine. 

You are probably responsible under contract and professional standard of care for furnishing any revisions or whatever you make that effects the project to the contractor (and client [owner]). 

The contractor appears to use Procore for coordination efficiency purposes. Contracts usually don't spell out precise method of furnishing the documents. It is usually handled by some mutual understanding (ideally in writing or some recorded medium). This is just a electronic form of furnishing. Therefore, if you upload it to Procore and send a message to the contractor to notify them that it has been uploaded and to check then YOU DONE YOUR DUTY OF FURNISHING THE REVISIONS TO THE CONTRACTOR. 

The reason for using this system might simply be for ease and expedience in keeping everyone up to date instead of the lag time that might occur using the old fashion "sneaker net" and driving around to all the parties to deliver. The contractor is using a software system service to ease the process. 

The lesson take away is probably to improve communication and understanding so you're better prepared and not caught off guard with these little details. 

I'm in agreement with what mantaray wrote above. You don't deal with the minute details. Uploading it to the system and notifying them is your responsibility.

Jan 20, 18 6:17 am  · 
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RickB-Astoria

Just a quick promo video from Procore. It seems like an interesting platform to say the least.

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kjdt

I don't know what kind of project this is, or what your specs say, but on most of what I've worked on lately Division 01 has a section that very specifically outlines responsibilities related to the CM or GC's management software - down to the number of hours of training that the CM/GC needs to provide to architect and consultants in the chosen application, who will upload what, in what format, how it will be named and numbered, and on what schedule all of this will happen.  If you don't have this in your spec you might want to get it in there on future projects to avoid this situation.

Jan 20, 18 12:48 pm  · 
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archinine
It depends on the contracts - both the architect's and the contractor's.

I've used procore quite a few times for submittals etc and have never been asked to upload whole drawing sets or revisions outside of responding to rfis.

If you didn't sign an agreement to do so then it is entirely their responsibility to update their elected software databases. So long as you can prove you have sent out the drawings to the parties you originally agreed to you should be covered.
Jan 20, 18 5:24 pm  · 
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Quick Draw McGraw

"So long as you can prove you have sent out the drawings to the parties you originally agreed to you should be covered."

Agreed. That's what the revision list on title blocks are for. It's not your job to make the life of the GC easier. - unless you agreed to this method of record keeping - or better yet,  unless the word Procore was actually made reference to in your contract.

If none of the above applies, then having to spend time loading the minutia into their system it would technically fall under additional services category - and therefore would warrant billable hours. If the owner or GC is not pleased with the suggestion - just copy the revision notes into a word document, and that should satisfy the request.

Jan 21, 18 12:11 pm  · 
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proto
When I worked for large offices, we never participated in the GC’s construction mgt software. The reason was for both liability and the ability to control the communication. The last thing we wanted to do was rubber stamp the GC’s process and written history.

For instance, the timing of rfi’s & submittals: if GC sends something out at 5:15pm, that’s not getting recorded as received that day.

He who writes the minutes writes the history of the project.
Jan 21, 18 1:48 pm  · 
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mschroeder

Before you put anything on the Procore system, why not read their Terms of Service : procore terms

I found them incompatible with our business / clients / contracts and will not us that tool if asked by out CM's.

May 31, 18 12:58 pm  · 
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SneakyPete

"License of Your Content to Procore By posting, publishing, uploading, or distributing any data, information, text, graphics, links, messages, reviews, content, or other materials for use on the Websites or Services (other than on https://app.procore.com or on the mobile applications), you grant (or warrant that the owner of such rights has expressly granted) Procore a perpetual, worldwide, royalty-free, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license, with the right to sublicense, to use, modify, reproduce, publish, adapt, publicly perform, publicly display, digitally display and digitally perform, translate, create derivative works from and distribute such postings or incorporate such postings into any form, medium, or technology now known or later developed. You agree that you shall have no recourse against Procore for any alleged or actual infringement or misappropriation of any proprietary right in postings you provide to Procore."

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SneakyPete

Holy shit. IANAL, but that seems ridiculous.

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