I'm sad to say that I don't know what a good mentoring relationship looks like. I started my career working for a civil and forensic engineer who was very skilled in construction, he hated architects (the engineer was not the consulting type, but one who was basically an architect by engineering training who I sought out precisely because of this, I didn't want to do any more collages, I wanted to know how buildings were built.) so while he was one of the best mentors I'd ever had in many regards, he had many not nice things to say about architects and used to drive me around and point out stupid things that architects did and ask me why school doesn't teach us anything. Sadly, this was the best mentoring I've ever had and this was many years ago. I had a mentor in a firm who signed off on my IDP and he was very nice and tried to be helpful but he was always too overwhelmed to bother much so I didn't. Then I worked in a firm where the only architect in the office was never actually there. I had a mentor through a program with the AIA and we wrote back and forth a few times but he was unbelievably arrogant, ignored my questions and wrote long emails to me about how amazing he was so I stopped writing him, he just wanted a fan club. Thus, all the "mentoring" I can really speak of came from my peers and I do a lot of trial and error to figure things out, which is pretty slow and error-prone, meaning I know I can do better. I'm self-employed in two fields (architecture and private education) and I have peers still that I talk with to get perspectives and guidance, but I do not have anybody older than me in either occupation to provide mentoring besides those here on the forums.
If you have a moment to spare between sips of coffee, lines drawn, and codes interpreted, please share your mentoring experiences, from either side - being mentored or mentoring, within architecture and outside of it. What has your mentorship relationships been like? What do you think it SHOULD be like but was not? Where did you find a mentor? If you have mentored, what did you think about it? At what point, if ever, did you not need a mentor anymore? And of course this goes without saying, feel free to tear me down if that's what I need.
I feel you! I'm coming up on 10 years out of school and I'm still not sure I've really had a mentor, per se. I sometimes wonder if perhaps my definition of mentorship is too rigid. Certainly there have been people in my career that I've learned from, and I can point to a few people who would/will consistently go beyond the minimum when asked for advice. Like the code guy or the spec writer who will ramble for 20 min about cementitious overlays or the exact definition of common path of travel; or the associate principal who would sit with me for 30 min to sketch details (SO helpful). Likewise, I try to pay this type of thing forward when I see an opportunity (just last week I gave an intern a 10 min lecture on tile and grouting). I suppose the takeaway here is that for me, within the structure of a larger firm, you can find experts on everything and can cobble their collective experience together into something resembling mentorship.
In addition to above, there's been a few people over time who have expressed interest in supporting my career, but it's usually ended in just being some sort of one-off coffee meet up. I suspect some of the issue is me - I don't really know what to do with them or how to productively maintain the relationship.
Overall, I can't point to any one person who's been a mentor. Like you I think most of my learning has been through just "taking a stab" at something and seeing if it works. I wish I did have one consistent mentor. I don't think it's something that you ever stop needing. When I was younger it was more of needing a guide to practicing and learning the ropes. Now I would love it if I had someone outside my firms management structure who could act as a neutral sounding board for work issues and career decisions.
I've found that mentorship comes in various forms depending on the type of mentoring you're looking for (i.e. career advice, professional development, encouragement, etc.). I don't know that I've had a really good mentor I can reach out to for career advice. The best I've found is a coworker who has a conflict of interest if it ever came to me asking about quitting for a different job. I think he'd give me a straight answer, but I know he'd be put in a tight place if I quit so I'm not sure I could blindly accept his advice on that type of thing.
That being said, he's been the best mentor from a professional development standpoint. He is willing to take a few minutes and teach me things when necessary, or at the very least give me advice on how to teach myself (i.e. "look up articles by so-and-so for such-and-such topic, they really know their stuff"). He has always been a huge advocate for me with the firm leadership because he knows if I'm not happy there are a dozen other firms that would be willing to hire me out from under him.
In the end though, the thing that makes him such a good mentor isn't that he teaches me or how well he advocates for me. I think the biggest thing is that he is comfortable with where he is at and views me as a team member rather than someone he is going to have to compete with for his job at some future point. I know he is training me to eventually be able to take over his role, but I don't think he feels threatened by that. Basically, he isn't an egomaniac narcissist.
Jan 17, 18 1:00 pm ·
·
Wilma Buttfit
You mentioned not being viewed by this person as someone who will take over if taught anything which is something I've thought but wondered if I was making it up. Never get that vibe from my peers or near peers, but I get it. Also get the vibe of, that's not my job to teach you. But my understanding of a profession is that it is our jobs to teach each other.
Jan 17, 18 2:00 pm ·
·
Wilma Buttfit
I sensed the not-my-job-to-teach-you bit was NOT personal towards me, it always felt like general spite for the profession or for those who attended modern academia. When we say architecture eats their young, this is what I think of, the angst of the older crowd. Any species that eats their young doesn't last.
I've been mulling the idea over in my head for a while now, but I think the people who won't share information or teach others do it because they have a hard time justifying their purpose in the profession aside from "keeper of knowledge and experience." It's a misguided attempt to stay relevant.
I've actually had a handful of really good mentors throughout my education and career. All of them had at least one attribute in common: they gave their time, knowledge, and advice to their mentees. My manager that signed off on all of my IDP would sit with me to explain and sketch out even the most elementary things - like flashing details and french drains - that, in hindsight, I probably should've remembered from school. Instead of just giving redlines, he always lets you take a stab at figuring it out first, and then answers your questions. Because of his willingness to teach, we can now take on larger projects because he is confident in the skills of those of us he taught, and lets us teach the less-experienced employees. It has also fostered a very nice 'no question is too stupid' attitude throughout the office as a whole.
In college, I had a prof who would let a group of us hang out in his office after our lecture class. We would discuss the class material, new books we were reading, politics, architectural criticism, future career goals, etc., He had a dinner every year that he hosted at his home that he opened up to students in his senior-level courses. I still keep in touch with him, and see him about once a year. He still advises me when I ask help, and acts as a sounding board when I'm not sure. He often tries to get a few of us in the group to come back to teach alongside him.
Jan 17, 18 1:14 pm ·
·
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Mentoring
I'm sad to say that I don't know what a good mentoring relationship looks like. I started my career working for a civil and forensic engineer who was very skilled in construction, he hated architects (the engineer was not the consulting type, but one who was basically an architect by engineering training who I sought out precisely because of this, I didn't want to do any more collages, I wanted to know how buildings were built.) so while he was one of the best mentors I'd ever had in many regards, he had many not nice things to say about architects and used to drive me around and point out stupid things that architects did and ask me why school doesn't teach us anything. Sadly, this was the best mentoring I've ever had and this was many years ago. I had a mentor in a firm who signed off on my IDP and he was very nice and tried to be helpful but he was always too overwhelmed to bother much so I didn't. Then I worked in a firm where the only architect in the office was never actually there. I had a mentor through a program with the AIA and we wrote back and forth a few times but he was unbelievably arrogant, ignored my questions and wrote long emails to me about how amazing he was so I stopped writing him, he just wanted a fan club. Thus, all the "mentoring" I can really speak of came from my peers and I do a lot of trial and error to figure things out, which is pretty slow and error-prone, meaning I know I can do better. I'm self-employed in two fields (architecture and private education) and I have peers still that I talk with to get perspectives and guidance, but I do not have anybody older than me in either occupation to provide mentoring besides those here on the forums.
If you have a moment to spare between sips of coffee, lines drawn, and codes interpreted, please share your mentoring experiences, from either side - being mentored or mentoring, within architecture and outside of it. What has your mentorship relationships been like? What do you think it SHOULD be like but was not? Where did you find a mentor? If you have mentored, what did you think about it? At what point, if ever, did you not need a mentor anymore? And of course this goes without saying, feel free to tear me down if that's what I need.
What am I missing by learning almost exclusively by trial and error, besides time?
I feel you! I'm coming up on 10 years out of school and I'm still not sure I've really had a mentor, per se. I sometimes wonder if perhaps my definition of mentorship is too rigid. Certainly there have been people in my career that I've learned from, and I can point to a few people who would/will consistently go beyond the minimum when asked for advice. Like the code guy or the spec writer who will ramble for 20 min about cementitious overlays or the exact definition of common path of travel; or the associate principal who would sit with me for 30 min to sketch details (SO helpful). Likewise, I try to pay this type of thing forward when I see an opportunity (just last week I gave an intern a 10 min lecture on tile and grouting). I suppose the takeaway here is that for me, within the structure of a larger firm, you can find experts on everything and can cobble their collective experience together into something resembling mentorship.
In addition to above, there's been a few people over time who have expressed interest in supporting my career, but it's usually ended in just being some sort of one-off coffee meet up. I suspect some of the issue is me - I don't really know what to do with them or how to productively maintain the relationship.
Overall, I can't point to any one person who's been a mentor. Like you I think most of my learning has been through just "taking a stab" at something and seeing if it works. I wish I did have one consistent mentor. I don't think it's something that you ever stop needing. When I was younger it was more of needing a guide to practicing and learning the ropes. Now I would love it if I had someone outside my firms management structure who could act as a neutral sounding board for work issues and career decisions.
egomaniac narcissists are supposed to be mentors?
I just go by what the AIA says.
I've found that mentorship comes in various forms depending on the type of mentoring you're looking for (i.e. career advice, professional development, encouragement, etc.). I don't know that I've had a really good mentor I can reach out to for career advice. The best I've found is a coworker who has a conflict of interest if it ever came to me asking about quitting for a different job. I think he'd give me a straight answer, but I know he'd be put in a tight place if I quit so I'm not sure I could blindly accept his advice on that type of thing.
That being said, he's been the best mentor from a professional development standpoint. He is willing to take a few minutes and teach me things when necessary, or at the very least give me advice on how to teach myself (i.e. "look up articles by so-and-so for such-and-such topic, they really know their stuff"). He has always been a huge advocate for me with the firm leadership because he knows if I'm not happy there are a dozen other firms that would be willing to hire me out from under him.
In the end though, the thing that makes him such a good mentor isn't that he teaches me or how well he advocates for me. I think the biggest thing is that he is comfortable with where he is at and views me as a team member rather than someone he is going to have to compete with for his job at some future point. I know he is training me to eventually be able to take over his role, but I don't think he feels threatened by that. Basically, he isn't an egomaniac narcissist.
You mentioned not being viewed by this person as someone who will take over if taught anything which is something I've thought but wondered if I was making it up. Never get that vibe from my peers or near peers, but I get it. Also get the vibe of, that's not my job to teach you. But my understanding of a profession is that it is our jobs to teach each other.
I sensed the not-my-job-to-teach-you bit was NOT personal towards me, it always felt like general spite for the profession or for those who attended modern academia. When we say architecture eats their young, this is what I think of, the angst of the older crowd. Any species that eats their young doesn't last.
I've been mulling the idea over in my head for a while now, but I think the people who won't share information or teach others do it because they have a hard time justifying their purpose in the profession aside from "keeper of knowledge and experience." It's a misguided attempt to stay relevant.
I've actually had a handful of really good mentors throughout my education and career. All of them had at least one attribute in common: they gave their time, knowledge, and advice to their mentees. My manager that signed off on all of my IDP would sit with me to explain and sketch out even the most elementary things - like flashing details and french drains - that, in hindsight, I probably should've remembered from school. Instead of just giving redlines, he always lets you take a stab at figuring it out first, and then answers your questions. Because of his willingness to teach, we can now take on larger projects because he is confident in the skills of those of us he taught, and lets us teach the less-experienced employees. It has also fostered a very nice 'no question is too stupid' attitude throughout the office as a whole.
In college, I had a prof who would let a group of us hang out in his office after our lecture class. We would discuss the class material, new books we were reading, politics, architectural criticism, future career goals, etc., He had a dinner every year that he hosted at his home that he opened up to students in his senior-level courses. I still keep in touch with him, and see him about once a year. He still advises me when I ask help, and acts as a sounding board when I'm not sure. He often tries to get a few of us in the group to come back to teach alongside him.
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