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Minimum possible Fair Housing Bathroom sizes

cbaze

I'd like to determine what the minimum possible Fair Housing "Type A" and "Type B" bathrooms are. Please see attached. I've used wall mounted toilets to reduce the encroachment into the open floor space. I believe that you can squeeze an "A" bathroom down to 4.5 ft x 7.5 ft = 33.75 sf. The type "B" bathroom is 5 ft x 7 ft = 35 sf, but the vanity is 27" wide instead of 30" wide... not sure if this is allowed. 

 
Dec 21, 17 1:23 am
poop876

Where is your turning radius?

Dec 21, 17 7:51 am

you would only need that for ADA Mobility Feature or accessible units or ANSI type A unit accessible bathrooms. FHA is a different set of criteria and covers new housing reachable by an accessible route in buildings built after 3/13/1991 and is not as stringent.

poop876

Thanks Peter! We are currently slammed with projects so ANSI was in my head, but none of them are FHA, so I'm not current on that. Thanks again for pointing it out.

Non Sequitur

Why not just put a hole in the floor and a water bucket overhead? Sounds like the best way to reduce everything to the bare minimum.


Dec 21, 17 8:13 am

I've resorted to that in emergencies

For the type B (Specification B) Bathroom consider using a transfer shower 36" x 36" min clear but you need to have a 30 x 48" parallel approach starting at the control wall so the room would have a notch in it, less space and could become storage outside of the bathroom. A vanity with clear floor space oriented for forward approach underneath can overlap this by 6" at the control wall end.

The type A tub would still need to be 5' long.

The 30" wide vanity is not required but the center of the sink bowl must be minimum 15" from the side wall.

is this for a class project or something else?

Over and OUT

Peter N

Dec 21, 17 9:32 am
cbaze

Why does the type A tub have to be 5' long? I'll sketch up a type B with a shower instead of a tub. If I have a 27" vanity, I can't have a support that blocks knee space on the toilet side, right? Looking into bathroom pods for several different projects.

The 5' (60") is the length of the clear floor space in the FHA design guidelines which if combined with ANSI 2003 (ANSI covers the common areas) is an approved DOJ/HUD safe harbor. https://www.huduser.gov/portal/publications/PDF/FAIRHOUSING/fairfull.pdf Page 7.53

because you are using a forward approach to the vanity and the vanity is less than 30" you would need to have brackets supporting the vanity clear of the knee and toe clearance. this knee tow clearance need to be 30"wide centered on the bowl of the vanity. These brackets are fairly common.

Can I get a CEU for reading this thread?

Dec 21, 17 12:05 pm
Medusa

This made me literally LOL and spit coffee all over my desk. :(

The diagram does not indicate the flat screen, nor does it indicate the magazine rack.

Dec 21, 17 12:42 pm

Be careful about the flat screen protruding beyond 4" from the wall.

they should be flush, behind glass, and ideally near bars/taverns

and please, a (dry) shelf to set things down, every person deserves this

jcrarch

David, please stop posting when you have nothing to add except your verbal diarrhea. I'm so tired of reading your meaningless replies.

Thank you, your opinion means a lot to me personally.

For the record, let it be known that annon poster jcrarch does not wish people to have a dry shelf when using a bathroom.

when flying (rip)

Dec 21, 17 2:01 pm
Xenakis

sheesh, there are bigger Loos on Emirates suits

Dec 21, 17 9:13 pm

yeah, but I am boycotting commercial air travel

cbaze

Here is a Type B with shower which comes out to 30.25 SF. I have 51" clear floor space at the toilet instead of 56", but would a wall mount toilet meet the intent of the code since 6" or more of space is gained (where the tank would normally sit)? Is there any way possible to create a FHA full bath that is smaller than this?

Feb 14, 18 8:58 pm
Non Sequitur

terrible layout.

cbaze

You're from Canada, so your opinion doesn't count.

Non Sequitur

It counts plenty.

Really, Non. It's a perfectly acceptable layout for little people. Except of course for the missing footstool.

b3tadine[sutures]

can you fit a squatty-potty?


a few things: 1 you need a forward approach to the sink as you do not appear to have the required 48" wide clear floor space centered on the sink (it is too close to the door) and the vanity is not 30" wide so it will have to meet the knee and toe clearance at the toilet side of the vanity and have no end panel that reaches the floor a that end 2 the FHA design manual does not allow for a reduction in the clear floor space for the toilet, you still need 56" from the toilet rear wall 3 the shower must have a minimum 36" wide opening 4 the controls for the shower need to be on the wall at the rear of the bathroom (opposite of the bathroom door) so the 30" x 48" clear floor space can start at the control wall and go past the shower. and finally the shower dimensions must be from the fished face of the shower not the shower pan and they are measured from the center of the shower so you can curve the walls (typical for pre-built shower enclosures). Also don't forget the blocking for future grab bar installation. looks good otherwise.

cbaze

Ok, so far as FHA is concerned then, the space gained by a wall mounted toilet will not translate to any SF savings, correct? 

Feb 15, 18 11:51 pm

I do not know of any exemption in FHA design manual. Typically in residential construction wall hung toilets are rarely used as the carriage you need to have in the wall takes up a lot of space. In ADA there is an allowance for a shorter clear floor space in stalls for wall hung toilets.

Nickle and dining a couple of s.f. to make a miserable space even worse. What's wrong with this picture?

Feb 16, 18 11:02 am
Non Sequitur

Your name is Miles, so your opinion does not count apparently. See his counter-point to my comment above.

It is all in an effort to make housing affordable by reducing the square footage that has to be built out. Smaller units are slightly cheaper to build and can be rented or sold at a slightly lower price. FHA and other codes in effect are a check on this to make it possible that persons with disabilities can use the housing.

If they really want to make it affordable they should eliminate all the codes.

If they want to make it even marginally livable, on the other hand ... oh, never mind.

randomised

Love it how the minimum requirements turn into maximum allowable requirements almost by default, for sure the OP is not an architect.

Feb 16, 18 1:31 pm
Medusa

Keep in mind that your wall mounted toilet will probably be VE'd out because a wall hung toilet+carrier times however many housing units is going to be a lot more expensive than a regular old floor mounted residential toilet.  (Not to mention, are you even allowing enough space in the wall cavity for the carrier?) This will screw up your space savings and give you a lot of fun times redesigning floor plans during CA.


Feb 18, 18 10:02 am
geezertect

But fortunately, if you're an architect, you will get to do all the redesign work for free, since it's your fault for not being able to convince your client that you can't get blood out of a rock.

jessyelee

Bathroom should be make good,there is no any specific size of bathroom depends upon your house size, if your house size are small then you can make bathroom using shower enclosures, because shower cubicles  make beautiful bathroom in very good shape and size 

Sep 25, 18 8:24 am

Libertarian Minimum

Sep 25, 18 12:13 pm
tintt

Think how much time you could save too.

I saved 5 seconds by not fixing the door frame detail

Non Sequitur

Nice colours.

I can feel the crease in my left thigh from the bench

JLC-1

glass to the floor?

curtainwall, (hanger for wall hung toilet not shown) (vent not shown)

JLC-1

now I want to see the kitchen and bedrooms.

me too

Non Sequitur

curtainwall-hung toilet? Nice.

The whole room is hung

Non Sequitur

hung, like a horse?

like a Berkeley highrise.

hung

Sep 25, 18 2:52 pm

Libertarian Minimum Sans Bench

Sep 25, 18 4:02 pm
Non Sequitur

Why go through all that trouble? Could you just not hand a squat toilet off the edge of the building and let the wind do it's thing? An open widow at just the right height, reverse awning perhaps, could work too.

this is the building

JLC-1

what building? why are you showing these things that are not possible to exist? why david? why?

(sickday)

the minimum is shaped like Utah

JLC-1

utah is very minimal too. give me an address for this berkeley building.

Shattuck by the Bart station

The answer is: Utah

Sep 25, 18 4:54 pm

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