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Metal Stud Connections - Who should design?

mychaelp

This question has come up quite a bit at our firm lately. Who should provide the metal stud connection details. Headers, spans, etc.? There are projects that we don't have a structural engineer to provide them. Sometimes, engineers of previous projects have given us written approval to use their details for other projects, but I'm not so certain it's always a good idea. A good example of a detail we need, is the top of a metal stud wall to a slip track up to the concrete floor/metal deck above (due to fire rating). Without an engineer, is it a good idea for architects to just throw in a detail? Concerned about liability, but maybe it's overblown?

 
Oct 19, 17 12:31 pm
senjohnblutarsky

Connection details can be done as delegated design in your specs.  

Any spans and loading type information should be done as part of the documents. 

Oct 19, 17 12:43 pm  · 
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senjohnblutarsky

No... it's pretty common. Pre-Engineered Metal Buildings are the classic example. The A/E gives performance requirements and systems input, but the design is left to the supplier/contractor. A/E should review the design as a shop drawing/submission.

Oct 19, 17 12:48 pm  · 
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mychaelp

Interesting idea, I hadn't considered it before. This is an option that could work for larger projects that still don't have a structural engineer on board. Thank you

Oct 19, 17 12:56 pm  · 
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thatsthat

We require delegated design often for very small scope projects or some things in CA.  For instance, if the contractor wants to use a lift in lieu of scaffolding on an existing roof, then the contractor has to have an engineer sign off that the roof will hold the weight of the lift. We may also hire a structural engineer on an hourly basis/as needed. So if something comes up or a client has a concern, we have someone who can review within a few days.  If necessary, he provides us a couple of hand sketches and we do the drafting so he doesn't have to devote staff to the project, which saves everyone time and money.

Oct 19, 17 4:48 pm  · 
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Non Sequitur

get the steel stud contractor to provide engineered shop drawings complete with stamp.

Oct 19, 17 12:47 pm  · 
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mychaelp

Similar as the delegated design idea above. Thank you for the idea. By noon I'll present a few options to the leaders here. As an architect I simply want to provide what is best to suit the project and to be honest, stop using others' details simply pasted into our plans.

Oct 19, 17 12:57 pm  · 
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x-jla

I've found that the word SHALL is the most important word in a designers vocabulary.  

Oct 19, 17 1:01 pm  · 
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mychaelp

Good point. I remember reading recently the legal term of Should versus Shall due to the current political NFL issues. Thanks

Oct 19, 17 1:06 pm  · 
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mychaelp

Thanks everyone for the feedback. Pretty much confirmed what I wanted to do here. I think I'm stuck complying with previous work for the current project, but may have convinced them to delegate the design for future projects. I may simply add the spec section paragraph related to delegated design from 092216 Section 1.4 of Performance Requirements on the cover sheet of plans, or Floor Plan.

I need to pay it forward, so will be commenting here when I can contribute. 

Oct 19, 17 2:38 pm  · 
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senjohnblutarsky

If you're talking structural framing , you shouldn't be using 092216 to cover the framing. You should be using 054000 which (in masterspec) contains a delegated-design submittal requirement.

Oct 19, 17 3:20 pm  · 
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mychaelp

This section is for non-structural framing. But due to loading, etc we need engineering for headers, etc. I do see in 054000 that it has spots for non-bearing which could work, but 092216 works better with no structural items. Unless I'm missing something

Oct 19, 17 3:24 pm  · 
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AdrianFGA

The very basic and general guideline I am used to, is to determine if studs will end up being structural or not. 

Structural studs should be designed by engineers, and are generally used for exterior applications (load bearing or not) as well as interior, load-bearing applications. 

Non-structural studs are mostly used with interior, non-load bearing applications; most of the time, details can be prepared by architects.

This is a good reference material with some coverage of responsibilities of various parties involved in this kind of design.

Oct 19, 17 5:00 pm  · 
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mychaelp

That's good material in the link, however with some of the extended headers, and walls sometimes up to 16', even with non-bearing that we're doing on this project, I'm not sure if using tables from non-stamped/signed items would help us if a liability situation arose. I guess I was trying to get away from using something that isn't actually engineered with the loads based on the current IBC, or in our case, the CBC.

Oct 19, 17 5:44 pm  · 
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AdrianFGA

You should determine if a wall that high needs to be reinforced, e
ven if it's not load-bearing. Without knowing more, I would say most likely it will have to be engineered

Oct 19, 17 6:42 pm  · 
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Medusa

Contact the steel stud manufacturer.  All of these companies have engineers on staff who will help you with connection and bracing details as well as any calculations that may be required.  Otherwise, if you are looking for fire-rated assemblies, consult the UL catalog for the required construction.

Based on your description, it seems like a pretty typical detail that you can work out using one of these methods for free.

Oct 20, 17 3:23 pm  · 
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