What I find funny is that the UK just gave the world banks a big middle finger, so now the oligarchs are like, "oh yeah Brits, well suck on this", which is a devaluation of their currency, more market volatility, and fear mongering thur none other than the elitist owned "news" outlets.
Congrats Brits! You just pissed off the most powerful ppl in the world. You will be a stronger nation if you can walk thur the quicksand that the banking industry is trying to dump on you at the moment.
Eeeek, did I mention that you literally just pissed in the Rothschild's coffee.
I am actually really worried what cards the global elite have up their sleeve to make you Brits pay, and pay dearly....
It's a miserable day, been talking to peers across industries. peers in property are have lost sales all morning, manufacturers have sent email to employees telling them they're moving facilities to mainland and investors are pulling out from redevelopments.
Absolute shock all around this morning, both in the office and outside of it. I genuinely can't believe this actually happened - especially after Farage essentially conceded defeat around midnight, for some bizarre reason. Waking up at 6am to the exact opposite result is not a nice experience.
The anti-immigrant right wing rhetoric is what concerns me. But this was a referendum. The people decided for themselves. They chose uncertainty and instability over the status quo. I have mixed feelings when I see so many well-meaning liberals on Instagram and Twitter who I know are well educated and well off financially wag their fingers smugly at pro-Brexit voters. I see the same smug treatment of right-leaning working class people in this country. So many moderates/liberals have decided that racist white trash voters deserve their economic misery and their opioid addiction. And those same liberals will express shock if Hillary underperforms in November. Bernie Sanders showed the Democrats how they can sincerely address the social and economic problems and anxieties that are destabilizing our society while still fighting against racism and anti-immigrant impulses. The Democracts chose the status quo over uncertainty.
The liberal media have shot themselves and the Brits in the face by fearmongering. They have given a huge platform over to the right in the fearmongering campaign to bully the Brits in remaining and kept the left pro-Brexit (so called Lexit) out of the limelight. In effect, the danger is that this be seen as a right wing win.
IT is unfortunate that Jeremy Corbyn has also shot himself in the foot by having voted to remain, even though it has been pointed out that, outside his role within the Labour, he has been a Euroskeptic in his past.
This is about and for the poor people in Britain, who are the vast majority who, in the short run, will not lose much in this and in the long term have much more to benefit in an economy they control and run around their needs rather than around - or rather for- EU banks and financial conglomorates
All the EU hypocricy about how UK is turning its back on an open culture to close back on itself is exactly that, hypocricy. They have cultuvated a chauvinistic European policy towards immigrants from outside europe that equates with that in right wing led countries. I hope this helps give a solid hit to this self perception and sets an example for the rest of the European left, many who have idealistically clung to the impossible idea of reforming the EU. This does not at all mean that they souldnt unite unwithin different institutions and associations.
At least the people of Britain now have a small terrain to fight on, one that gives them far more control over their lives..
Well, the people of Switzerland, Norway, and Finland have a higher standard of living than anyone in the EU, perhaps because they never joined to begin with?
"A slap in the face of globalization is not necessarily a bad thing."
So true.
The market reactions to Brexit are clear proof that the interests of the banking and financial cartels are hostile to the interests of the nation and its people, by the way.
Hell no it isnt, globalization needs to be back slapped like a 5 dollar whore. All globalization means is signing up everyone for a debt society. America and its resource are being sold off to the highest bidder as we speak. Chinese are looking to by farm land in Missouri, Saudis buying up land in Nevada. Why, because it cheaper to buy the land, use our water, and then import it to the developing world.
To the common man, even middle class Americans, globalization is basically like bending over and spreading them cheeks and saying, alright, who needs lube, just get a running start...
I guess it has to be pointed out that Trump ≠ Brexit. Brexit is the act of leaving a political and economic union. Trump is running to be the executive of an existing political and economic union. Issues of race, class, nationalism are swirling around both, but that doesn't make them the same.
De Twan, sorry to get personal, but your tales of being a sore loser abound on these threads. If you really think that an act like Brexit can help our sore losers in the British society, I suggest you look back at this a few months from now.
Oh...Im sorry. Did your boss come to you today and tell you that youre going to have to take a pay cut...someones gotta subsides those lost taxes, and it sure as hell isnt going to be the ppl that print the money... get back to work you ole' fart!
I wonder how many people voted for Leave as a protest to the growing economic and class disparity in England and to a lesser extent fears of non Anglo or Saxon people. I think if I was a British equivalent to a rust belt american worker who was left high and dry by the free trade agreements I would be tempted to vote leave. I think Trump, who is anti intellectual and has a talent for speaking to people left behind in this new global economy, is probably looking at the Brexit and thinking I could win this election in America. If this election is about class warfare the rich who naturally will side with Hillary, will not have sufficient numbers to overcome the working poor who have all these "new" jobs in the service industry and have seen their income become stagnant or diminish while working longer and more difficult to predict hours. If the 2016 Brexit is a forecast for the 2016 presidential election we are in for a class war that will reshape the political parties in America much like the 1964-68 civil rights movement and legislation reshaped the two parties into the present form they have today.
As for the Architecture industry, I wonder what the effect will be? Will we see a slowdown in the building of luxury condos in the city center? Will there be a massive amount of office re configuring and relocation between London and the mainland cities? Can British firms even compete for Euro projects?
The referendum was not by members of the government or exclusively right wing parties. It was the people who chose what to do...that is called a democracy. and most likely chose it not out of ideology, but because of their growing misery and poverty as their economy is run neither by them nor for them but by an undemocratic institution that has bankers and large corporations in mind.
Yes, the Brexit is going to rub the wrong way up against any middle class sensibility that is lost between one illustion (that the EU = European identity and cross boundary relations, cultural and trade wise) and another (that the status quo -of increasing misery and poverty being inflicted for the benefit of very ffew- is better than Brexit) is better than taking control over one's economy.
LOL b3ta. Now "wanting independence and self-determination" equals "colonialism" to the shills for the globalist elites. That's some pretty impressive cognitive dissonance you're rocking there, bro. Right up there with FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.
b3tadine, what sort of nonsense is that. Households living below the minimum living standards in the UK has doubled over the last 30 years. You think regular common people, the mass that decided on the vote, really cares about colonialism and the history of the British empire - many of whom are asian and black. There is discontent all over Europe. The Greeks were not strong enough to break loose unfortunately; they were bullied and threatened into submission and their situation was so much more dire, rendering them weaker. The Brits have a better opportunity.
Issues facing the world require us to work together - UK is an island with services as its main economy now that the tories sold off industry and such -
Tories have put forward austerity measures taking a tole on education, NHS and basic service. Of course, blame it on the immigrants. Easy to do.
Hey I got my UK passport so I can move to the EU - now a worthless piece of paper.
TED, I don't think this issue is about romantic clichés ("require us to work together") but about what is good or bad for the British people and their economy...not the economy of the 1%, not of the few who benefit from the trickle down effect but of the majority of people.
About industry, it is precisely because of the EU that there are more restriction on the UK industry to flourish.
Whilst it may not be fair to blame all this decline on membership of the EU, as there are other factors, it nonetheless shows categorically that joining the EU and helping create the so called single market has not helped us grow and has not saved many of our industries from decline.
In some cases EU policies are the main driver of the disaster. The Common Fishing Policy is clearly the main reason for the dreadful decline of our fishing industry, as many foreign vessels were licenced to take our fish. Our energy intensive businesses were often damaged by the high energy prices required by the EU common energy policy.
The EU has prevented UK subsidy of industry under its state aids rules, but has often provided subsidised loans and grants to businesses to set up elsewhere in the EU. The UK has seen a spate of factory closures balanced by new and expanded facilities in poorer EU countries. The UK lost van production to Turkey, car capacity to Slovakia, chocolate to Poland, domestic appliances to the Netherlands and the Czech Republic and metal containers to Poland amongst others in recent years. In various cases there was an EU grant or loan involved in the new capacity.
and TED, if your discontent is over the fact that you can't live in the EU for whatever reason and not because you can hardly make enough money to pay for rent and food, then consider yourself lucky.
In short, the EU as a vessel for neoliberalism has always valued setting up industry where it would cost the least in order to afford those at the top the most profit. In the long term, this is not sustainable not only for the countries that lose their industries to other poorer (therefor more competitve) EU members...but, in the long run, is not sustainable for all the mamerber states and the EU structure itself.
Such lovely and considered comments, why thank you!
Absolutely why I left america forever to live in a Europe - Nonsense dogma crap!
You're reading too much right wing blogs or looking at too much CNN, get your self some real friends and step out of the little bubble of self-righteousness
(secret) It is cheaper to live in Europe than it is in america....when tourist like yourself come across - we love to rip you off so to make certain you get back on the plane and return home.
Europe is the place to be, it cares about society, it doesn't have nutters with guns shooting 6 year olds (you don't think this is a cost to society?) I am loving being european.
TED..^ you would be living under nazi totalitarianism if it weren't for the US. You are welcome
As for "caring about society" that's a complete misreading. Don't mistake the "selfish herd" for altruism. The average European votes in their own self interest, which may happen to be good for society as a whole. There's a difference. From my experience, the average European is far more xenophobic and racist than the average American. The idea that Europeans are more progressive and liberal is a myth. Also, "Nutters with guns" is a consequence of our constitutional protections that favor Liberty over security. Our constitution makes us less vulnerable to tyranny (in theory anyway). Europe is very beautiful and rich in history, but please step off the high horse. Your view of America is skewed. Thanks for leaving though...one less prick.
TED i anxiously await Chatters response.........this should be good. when i think of chatter i imagine a white straight o'reilly fan American, hahaha.....TED you dtank too much kool-aid. i lived 15 years in a european country. unlike the US - class structure is very defined and hard to jump. i know the opportunity of the American Dream is a joke now but at least the people are not fed the minimum for subsitences thinking its socialism and not class enforcement. european socialism serves the banking elite well, but you dont get that. you are too far left now...
Such lovely and considered comments, why thank you!
There is no need to be prissy. When you give, as a reason for staying within the EU, your wish to move to Europe after getting your British passport ...allow me to be somewhat snarky. That you overlook all reasons (the majority of which have no bearing at all to any right wing ideology: increasing poverty, the neoliberal policies of the EU that override local sentiment and décisions, etc) ) that unite the majority of the people in the UK (after all, it was a democratic referendum and not a manifesto by the right wing) ...that you overlook all this because simply there will be a restriction on you going to EU is irrational. How about the majority of people who can't afford to up and move to the EU and who have been devastated by the EU's policies that helped void the UK of its industry? TED's adventures are more important?
Absolutely why I left america forever to live in a Europe - Nonsense dogma crap!
There is absolutely no argument here. The EU is full of nonsense dogma crap - including pushing immigrants back into the sea to die, torturing a whole country within the EU so that its people find themselves rummaging through the bins for food. On which mythical planetdo you live in? Just because you left the US does not mean that you need to measure the EU by US standards.
You're reading too much right wing blogs or looking at too much CNN, get your self some real friends and step out of the little bubble of self-righteousness
I am not a US Citizen or resident. I do not watch CNN. I have many friends in Europe. I studied in Europe. Politically, there is no way on earth you could call me right wing. In fact, if you followed and read my posts you would have noticed that I am more likely to be reading radical left journal, articles, wahtever. Some left supported the Remain -out of some notion that the EU could be reformed- and some supported the Leave - who saw the impossibility of reforming an institution specifically setup to facilitate an economic system catering for big business, bankers against the wellfare of the people. I see more reason with the latter.
(secret) It is cheaper to live in Europe than it is in america....when tourist like yourself come across - we love to rip you off so to make certain you get back on the plane and return home.
You were prissy, not you're also petty now. Tell that to the Greeks, the Portuguese, the Italian, the French, the Brits who cannot afford to live in their Europe anymore. Again, you possibly have yourself in mind rather than me.
Europe is the place to be, it cares about society, it doesn't have nutters with guns shooting 6 year olds (you don't think this is a cost to society?) I am loving being european.
EU is not Europe and Europe is not EU. EU is an economic-political construct that has acted as a vehicule for destroying local economies and communities around in Europe.
......
Remain had elements of the left, the centre and the right behind it. Leave had elements of the left and the right and far fewer of the centre. To categorically claim that Remain=Left and Leave=Right (Boris Johnson) is an outright lie. British dreams of imperalism and nationalism feature here far less than do concrete conditions of povery and economic disenfranchisement on ground.
Also, have you noted how chauvinistic and quasi-nationalistic this clamour over Europeanism has become? This euphoric Europhilia that, the closer it pulls itself together, the farther it pushed out immigrants out to the sea to die? And how it occupies this space of illusion where it cannot seperate the issue of the EU and its policies that provoked poverty in the whole european southern mediterannean belt from the fetishism of its Europeanism (whatever that is?).
Fortress Europe, with its economic arm the EU and its military one the NATO, is increasingly fascistic rightwing and exclusionary. It is not Brexit which provoked right wing parties to now flourish all across Europe; it is largely the economic and political policies perpetrated through and in the name of the EU.
Brexit
Markets are tumbling, sterling is falling... Condolences to the international architecture firms in London that will feel the pain
Capitalism FTW
Best take I've seen so far
^ That is pretty funny.
What I find funny is that the UK just gave the world banks a big middle finger, so now the oligarchs are like, "oh yeah Brits, well suck on this", which is a devaluation of their currency, more market volatility, and fear mongering thur none other than the elitist owned "news" outlets.
Congrats Brits! You just pissed off the most powerful ppl in the world. You will be a stronger nation if you can walk thur the quicksand that the banking industry is trying to dump on you at the moment.
Eeeek, did I mention that you literally just pissed in the Rothschild's coffee.
I am actually really worried what cards the global elite have up their sleeve to make you Brits pay, and pay dearly....
Texas to America; Hello Mexico! We're coming home!
America to Texas: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ ฅ(⌯͒• ɪ •⌯͒)ฅ❣
It's a miserable day, been talking to peers across industries. peers in property are have lost sales all morning, manufacturers have sent email to employees telling them they're moving facilities to mainland and investors are pulling out from redevelopments.
Ugh, archiwhutm8, I'm sorry. I'm scared, for everyone.
Absolute shock all around this morning, both in the office and outside of it. I genuinely can't believe this actually happened - especially after Farage essentially conceded defeat around midnight, for some bizarre reason. Waking up at 6am to the exact opposite result is not a nice experience.
My understanding is that this is a process that will take 2 years.
Elected officials can be recalled, can this be put up for a revote?
The anti-immigrant right wing rhetoric is what concerns me. But this was a referendum. The people decided for themselves. They chose uncertainty and instability over the status quo. I have mixed feelings when I see so many well-meaning liberals on Instagram and Twitter who I know are well educated and well off financially wag their fingers smugly at pro-Brexit voters. I see the same smug treatment of right-leaning working class people in this country. So many moderates/liberals have decided that racist white trash voters deserve their economic misery and their opioid addiction. And those same liberals will express shock if Hillary underperforms in November. Bernie Sanders showed the Democrats how they can sincerely address the social and economic problems and anxieties that are destabilizing our society while still fighting against racism and anti-immigrant impulses. The Democracts chose the status quo over uncertainty.
It is time for the left to own this now.
The liberal media have shot themselves and the Brits in the face by fearmongering. They have given a huge platform over to the right in the fearmongering campaign to bully the Brits in remaining and kept the left pro-Brexit (so called Lexit) out of the limelight. In effect, the danger is that this be seen as a right wing win.
IT is unfortunate that Jeremy Corbyn has also shot himself in the foot by having voted to remain, even though it has been pointed out that, outside his role within the Labour, he has been a Euroskeptic in his past.
This is about and for the poor people in Britain, who are the vast majority who, in the short run, will not lose much in this and in the long term have much more to benefit in an economy they control and run around their needs rather than around - or rather for- EU banks and financial conglomorates
All the EU hypocricy about how UK is turning its back on an open culture to close back on itself is exactly that, hypocricy. They have cultuvated a chauvinistic European policy towards immigrants from outside europe that equates with that in right wing led countries. I hope this helps give a solid hit to this self perception and sets an example for the rest of the European left, many who have idealistically clung to the impossible idea of reforming the EU. This does not at all mean that they souldnt unite unwithin different institutions and associations.
At least the people of Britain now have a small terrain to fight on, one that gives them far more control over their lives..
Well, the people of Switzerland, Norway, and Finland have a higher standard of living than anyone in the EU, perhaps because they never joined to begin with?
^ gasp @ the heresy!
Volunteer - That's cause they actually have a industry that doesn't require Europe and Switzerland is another story completely.
A slap in the face of globalization is not necessarily a bad thing.
"A slap in the face of globalization is not necessarily a bad thing."
So true.
The market reactions to Brexit are clear proof that the interests of the banking and financial cartels are hostile to the interests of the nation and its people, by the way.
Hell no it isnt, globalization needs to be back slapped like a 5 dollar whore. All globalization means is signing up everyone for a debt society. America and its resource are being sold off to the highest bidder as we speak. Chinese are looking to by farm land in Missouri, Saudis buying up land in Nevada. Why, because it cheaper to buy the land, use our water, and then import it to the developing world.
To the common man, even middle class Americans, globalization is basically like bending over and spreading them cheeks and saying, alright, who needs lube, just get a running start...
... and Finland have a higher standard of living than anyone in the EU, perhaps because they never joined to begin with?
Man, that must be really awkward then when they do all their commerce with Euros then?
(Finland is a full EU member, is what I'm trying to say)
fuck the banks, god save the queen!
Fuck you Banksters
I guess it has to be pointed out that Trump ≠ Brexit. Brexit is the act of leaving a political and economic union. Trump is running to be the executive of an existing political and economic union. Issues of race, class, nationalism are swirling around both, but that doesn't make them the same.
Exactly davvid. It is also transparent self serving propoganga.
propaganga. propa ganga. jaaa maan.
The funny thing is that supporters of Donald Dump (some on this very post) - believe that Brexit is akin to a victory for Dump.
This is the same Dump that congratulated Scotland for Brexit on his visit there yesterday. (Scotland, I know...)
De Twan, sorry to get personal, but your tales of being a sore loser abound on these threads. If you really think that an act like Brexit can help our sore losers in the British society, I suggest you look back at this a few months from now.
Oh...Im sorry. Did your boss come to you today and tell you that youre going to have to take a pay cut...someones gotta subsides those lost taxes, and it sure as hell isnt going to be the ppl that print the money... get back to work you ole' fart!
Meet the twins-doubles....'special relationship' and our next Prime minister.....
And "sore losers in the British society", I guess youre referring to the majority of Britons, since they voted on it.
Are 'we the losers' that you proclaim "us" to be, or are you just a loser.
Britons decided they want their country back. That makes them "sore losers" to shills for the globalist elite.
I wonder how many people voted for Leave as a protest to the growing economic and class disparity in England and to a lesser extent fears of non Anglo or Saxon people. I think if I was a British equivalent to a rust belt american worker who was left high and dry by the free trade agreements I would be tempted to vote leave. I think Trump, who is anti intellectual and has a talent for speaking to people left behind in this new global economy, is probably looking at the Brexit and thinking I could win this election in America. If this election is about class warfare the rich who naturally will side with Hillary, will not have sufficient numbers to overcome the working poor who have all these "new" jobs in the service industry and have seen their income become stagnant or diminish while working longer and more difficult to predict hours. If the 2016 Brexit is a forecast for the 2016 presidential election we are in for a class war that will reshape the political parties in America much like the 1964-68 civil rights movement and legislation reshaped the two parties into the present form they have today.
As for the Architecture industry, I wonder what the effect will be? Will we see a slowdown in the building of luxury condos in the city center? Will there be a massive amount of office re configuring and relocation between London and the mainland cities? Can British firms even compete for Euro projects?
Uncertainty brings risk and opportunities.
Over and OUT
Peter N
what do you mean sad sad day? TED
The referendum was not by members of the government or exclusively right wing parties. It was the people who chose what to do...that is called a democracy. and most likely chose it not out of ideology, but because of their growing misery and poverty as their economy is run neither by them nor for them but by an undemocratic institution that has bankers and large corporations in mind.
Yes, the Brexit is going to rub the wrong way up against any middle class sensibility that is lost between one illustion (that the EU = European identity and cross boundary relations, cultural and trade wise) and another (that the status quo -of increasing misery and poverty being inflicted for the benefit of very ffew- is better than Brexit) is better than taking control over one's economy.
Right, without risk, there is no reward!
LOL b3ta. Now "wanting independence and self-determination" equals "colonialism" to the shills for the globalist elites. That's some pretty impressive cognitive dissonance you're rocking there, bro. Right up there with FREEDOM IS SLAVERY.
b3tadine, what sort of nonsense is that. Households living below the minimum living standards in the UK has doubled over the last 30 years. You think regular common people, the mass that decided on the vote, really cares about colonialism and the history of the British empire - many of whom are asian and black. There is discontent all over Europe. The Greeks were not strong enough to break loose unfortunately; they were bullied and threatened into submission and their situation was so much more dire, rendering them weaker. The Brits have a better opportunity.
@chatter -
Issues facing the world require us to work together - UK is an island with services as its main economy now that the tories sold off industry and such -
Tories have put forward austerity measures taking a tole on education, NHS and basic service. Of course, blame it on the immigrants. Easy to do.
Hey I got my UK passport so I can move to the EU - now a worthless piece of paper.
TED, I don't think this issue is about romantic clichés ("require us to work together") but about what is good or bad for the British people and their economy...not the economy of the 1%, not of the few who benefit from the trickle down effect but of the majority of people.
About industry, it is precisely because of the EU that there are more restriction on the UK industry to flourish.
Brexit would help UK manufacturing survive in a global market
and from How joining the EU led to a big decline in UK industry
Whilst it may not be fair to blame all this decline on membership of the EU, as there are other factors, it nonetheless shows categorically that joining the EU and helping create the so called single market has not helped us grow and has not saved many of our industries from decline.
In some cases EU policies are the main driver of the disaster. The Common Fishing Policy is clearly the main reason for the dreadful decline of our fishing industry, as many foreign vessels were licenced to take our fish. Our energy intensive businesses were often damaged by the high energy prices required by the EU common energy policy.
The EU has prevented UK subsidy of industry under its state aids rules, but has often provided subsidised loans and grants to businesses to set up elsewhere in the EU. The UK has seen a spate of factory closures balanced by new and expanded facilities in poorer EU countries. The UK lost van production to Turkey, car capacity to Slovakia, chocolate to Poland, domestic appliances to the Netherlands and the Czech Republic and metal containers to Poland amongst others in recent years. In various cases there was an EU grant or loan involved in the new capacity.
and TED, if your discontent is over the fact that you can't live in the EU for whatever reason and not because you can hardly make enough money to pay for rent and food, then consider yourself lucky.
In short, the EU as a vessel for neoliberalism has always valued setting up industry where it would cost the least in order to afford those at the top the most profit. In the long term, this is not sustainable not only for the countries that lose their industries to other poorer (therefor more competitve) EU members...but, in the long run, is not sustainable for all the mamerber states and the EU structure itself.
The only "opportunity" as some say here, is to buy GBP for dirt cheap, and sell it 20 years hence (when they are back to a normal economy)
http://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/comment/it-will-take-an-age-to-recover-from-this-victory-for-the-exit-fantasists-zzfpxsc66
The EU is already telegraphing that it needs the UK more than the UK needs the EU.
Angela Merkel Urges EU Leaders to Maintain Close relations with UK in Wake of Brexit
You'd probably understand this, as a republican:
http://qz.com/716104/what-it-looks-like-when-brexit-crushes-your-business/
I am very happy for Brits.
F##k EU in their regulations, bureaucracy, left ideology and establishment.
GB is not leaving Europe, but rather a rotten and undemocratic union.
The nation who gave us parliamentary democracy has been suffering from fat, old bureaucrats in Brussels who even control a mixture of chocolates.
As for immigrants and the concerns about them is fully right. That has nothing to do with racism at all.
GO BRITAIN
A heroic first step in returning Britain to its pre-1970s glory as an economically languishing failed colonial empire.
what really matters is that this DOES NOT affect game of thrones filming already underway. I repeat - it does not affect game of thrones.
@chatter
Such lovely and considered comments, why thank you!
Absolutely why I left america forever to live in a Europe - Nonsense dogma crap!
You're reading too much right wing blogs or looking at too much CNN, get your self some real friends and step out of the little bubble of self-righteousness
(secret) It is cheaper to live in Europe than it is in america....when tourist like yourself come across - we love to rip you off so to make certain you get back on the plane and return home.
Europe is the place to be, it cares about society, it doesn't have nutters with guns shooting 6 year olds (you don't think this is a cost to society?) I am loving being european.
TED..^ you would be living under nazi totalitarianism if it weren't for the US. You are welcome
As for "caring about society" that's a complete misreading. Don't mistake the "selfish herd" for altruism. The average European votes in their own self interest, which may happen to be good for society as a whole. There's a difference. From my experience, the average European is far more xenophobic and racist than the average American. The idea that Europeans are more progressive and liberal is a myth. Also, "Nutters with guns" is a consequence of our constitutional protections that favor Liberty over security. Our constitution makes us less vulnerable to tyranny (in theory anyway). Europe is very beautiful and rich in history, but please step off the high horse. Your view of America is skewed. Thanks for leaving though...one less prick.
TED i anxiously await Chatters response.........this should be good. when i think of chatter i imagine a white straight o'reilly fan American, hahaha.....TED you dtank too much kool-aid. i lived 15 years in a european country. unlike the US - class structure is very defined and hard to jump. i know the opportunity of the American Dream is a joke now but at least the people are not fed the minimum for subsitences thinking its socialism and not class enforcement. european socialism serves the banking elite well, but you dont get that. you are too far left now...
TED
Such lovely and considered comments, why thank you!
There is no need to be prissy. When you give, as a reason for staying within the EU, your wish to move to Europe after getting your British passport ...allow me to be somewhat snarky. That you overlook all reasons (the majority of which have no bearing at all to any right wing ideology: increasing poverty, the neoliberal policies of the EU that override local sentiment and décisions, etc) ) that unite the majority of the people in the UK (after all, it was a democratic referendum and not a manifesto by the right wing) ...that you overlook all this because simply there will be a restriction on you going to EU is irrational. How about the majority of people who can't afford to up and move to the EU and who have been devastated by the EU's policies that helped void the UK of its industry? TED's adventures are more important?
Absolutely why I left america forever to live in a Europe - Nonsense dogma crap!
There is absolutely no argument here. The EU is full of nonsense dogma crap - including pushing immigrants back into the sea to die, torturing a whole country within the EU so that its people find themselves rummaging through the bins for food. On which mythical planetdo you live in? Just because you left the US does not mean that you need to measure the EU by US standards.
You're reading too much right wing blogs or looking at too much CNN, get your self some real friends and step out of the little bubble of self-righteousness
I am not a US Citizen or resident. I do not watch CNN. I have many friends in Europe. I studied in Europe. Politically, there is no way on earth you could call me right wing. In fact, if you followed and read my posts you would have noticed that I am more likely to be reading radical left journal, articles, wahtever. Some left supported the Remain -out of some notion that the EU could be reformed- and some supported the Leave - who saw the impossibility of reforming an institution specifically setup to facilitate an economic system catering for big business, bankers against the wellfare of the people. I see more reason with the latter.
(secret) It is cheaper to live in Europe than it is in america....when tourist like yourself come across - we love to rip you off so to make certain you get back on the plane and return home.
You were prissy, not you're also petty now. Tell that to the Greeks, the Portuguese, the Italian, the French, the Brits who cannot afford to live in their Europe anymore. Again, you possibly have yourself in mind rather than me.
Europe is the place to be, it cares about society, it doesn't have nutters with guns shooting 6 year olds (you don't think this is a cost to society?) I am loving being european.
EU is not Europe and Europe is not EU. EU is an economic-political construct that has acted as a vehicule for destroying local economies and communities around in Europe.
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Remain had elements of the left, the centre and the right behind it. Leave had elements of the left and the right and far fewer of the centre. To categorically claim that Remain=Left and Leave=Right (Boris Johnson) is an outright lie. British dreams of imperalism and nationalism feature here far less than do concrete conditions of povery and economic disenfranchisement on ground.
Also, have you noted how chauvinistic and quasi-nationalistic this clamour over Europeanism has become? This euphoric Europhilia that, the closer it pulls itself together, the farther it pushed out immigrants out to the sea to die? And how it occupies this space of illusion where it cannot seperate the issue of the EU and its policies that provoked poverty in the whole european southern mediterannean belt from the fetishism of its Europeanism (whatever that is?).
Fortress Europe, with its economic arm the EU and its military one the NATO, is increasingly fascistic rightwing and exclusionary. It is not Brexit which provoked right wing parties to now flourish all across Europe; it is largely the economic and political policies perpetrated through and in the name of the EU.
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