Agreed, senjohn. But I also think those gabions shown in the EcoWall image are waaaaaay overly prissy. The whole point of gabions is that they can be messy and irregular within a caged system that brings about the regularity.
In other words, I'd say that particular example of a gabion wall is...dishonest. ;-)
(Things I learned while writing this post: it's pronounced GAY-bee-un, not GAH-bee-on, and apparently the word gabion is singular. I had always used it as both singular and plural.)
The production and shipping can be a waste, as well as the destruction of a hillside in the environment. It's hard in our day and age to see stone veneer as beautiful, as its meaning in suburbia connotes a trashing of the land. It would be different if the veneer was locally sourced from the site, with minimal impact.
they are honest, conceptually, for instance, with respect to the contemporary multi-layered wall (outside finishing, air space, insulation, structural skeletal system, internal finishing).
do you mean that , in alluding to what they are not, they are deceptive, and, moreover, a humiliating sign of how we set ourself up knowingly for self-deception? perhaps, that is more a humiliating honesty than a dishonesty. Or in its purpose to conceal and direct the imagination away from what it really is: that it is (always defined by) what it is not.
is it dishonest in the sense that it is aesthetically and materialistically a bourgeois over-expenditure and a needless trinket signalling a plebian attachement to one's veneer-thin reality (sort of, like how architects view interior design, only, as architecture, inside out)?
If you dig deeper, I think that with this sense of ...I don't know how call it, this suspension of disbelief, the fleeting moment you exit 'the matrix', it is far more than this veneer that is dishonest. does building a solid masonry house for the sake of it, in the backgound of an industry that doesn't do that anymore for various practical reasons, strike you as an honest endeavour? Is reinforced concrete, hiding its bars Inside, is it honest? all these cornices, all these articulate junctions? How about the desperate attempts to do the opposite, to hide all these junctions, articulations, glass-to-wall détails, basically the pretensions of minimalism (minimalism that can never let things just be) , are they really honest ones?
i think the pinnacle of honest in architecture, for me, has always been abandoned buildings, destroyed ones, rotting ones, disembowled ones,. everything else in architecture is necessarily pretentious (it prétends, it alludes, evokes... middle class prétentions, wealth, priviledge, phenomenological associations, whatever..) .it never just is.
like a scab, your stone veneer is nothing more than the surface coagulation of a deeper wound.
Anything that covers the thin plastic waterproof vapour barrier in front of the insulation and is non structural is a veneer, a simulacrum, a representation of a way of building that simply does not exist and never really did. But that's not dishonest, that's just architecture, it's all fake, make-believe and manipulation...and plaster board, lots of plaster board and drop ceilings of course, don't forget drop ceilings...
How often would we see beautiful stone if there was no veneer?
That's no argument for crappy application, but if we insisted on stone's use only in full wythes at load-bearing conditions, we might never see it.
Jul 22, 17 3:48 pm ·
·
joseffischer
We're seeing some load-bearing "brick" options make a comeback. Priced at around $22/SF it includes integral insulation, a 16" or larger unit, and then fake unit lines that get grouted to make it look smaller. We're using it mostly in Const Type IIIB existing buildings. The client typically bought the building because of its "character" and love the existing brick walls (typically falling apart) so we need something cheap that gives that look and can work seamlessly integrated into existing walls as well.
Its not any more dishonest then any other fake material trying to be something its not in the modern architectural world, specifically interiors or interior design.
Jul 18, 18 7:03 am ·
·
Wilma Buttfit
Hell yeah! Real purists use real rocks for pillows! Modern fluffy stuff is for those who can't appreciate purity.
Are stone veneers dishonest?
I like gabion walls... For site elements. I don't like that they're a playground for snakes and spiders.
Agreed, senjohn. But I also think those gabions shown in the EcoWall image are waaaaaay overly prissy. The whole point of gabions is that they can be messy and irregular within a caged system that brings about the regularity.
In other words, I'd say that particular example of a gabion wall is...dishonest. ;-)
(Things I learned while writing this post: it's pronounced GAY-bee-un, not GAH-bee-on, and apparently the word gabion is singular. I had always used it as both singular and plural.)
Here is Herzog and demeuron's winery in California that uses them
I think Scarpa could have done some badass stuff with gabions.
That herzog project is awesome. I like gabion walls...
Best would be bronz/wrought iron accentuating the design.
The production and shipping can be a waste, as well as the destruction of a hillside in the environment. It's hard in our day and age to see stone veneer as beautiful, as its meaning in suburbia connotes a trashing of the land. It would be different if the veneer was locally sourced from the site, with minimal impact.
honest with respect to what exactly?
they are honest, conceptually, for instance, with respect to the contemporary multi-layered wall (outside finishing, air space, insulation, structural skeletal system, internal finishing).
do you mean that , in alluding to what they are not, they are deceptive, and, moreover, a humiliating sign of how we set ourself up knowingly for self-deception? perhaps, that is more a humiliating honesty than a dishonesty. Or in its purpose to conceal and direct the imagination away from what it really is: that it is (always defined by) what it is not.
is it dishonest in the sense that it is aesthetically and materialistically a bourgeois over-expenditure and a needless trinket signalling a plebian attachement to one's veneer-thin reality (sort of, like how architects view interior design, only, as architecture, inside out)?
If you dig deeper, I think that with this sense of ...I don't know how call it, this suspension of disbelief, the fleeting moment you exit 'the matrix', it is far more than this veneer that is dishonest. does building a solid masonry house for the sake of it, in the backgound of an industry that doesn't do that anymore for various practical reasons, strike you as an honest endeavour? Is reinforced concrete, hiding its bars Inside, is it honest? all these cornices, all these articulate junctions? How about the desperate attempts to do the opposite, to hide all these junctions, articulations, glass-to-wall détails, basically the pretensions of minimalism (minimalism that can never let things just be) , are they really honest ones?
i think the pinnacle of honest in architecture, for me, has always been abandoned buildings, destroyed ones, rotting ones, disembowled ones,. everything else in architecture is necessarily pretentious (it prétends, it alludes, evokes... middle class prétentions, wealth, priviledge, phenomenological associations, whatever..) .it never just is.
like a scab, your stone veneer is nothing more than the surface coagulation of a deeper wound.
This apparently is an older discussion, but I would just like to say that our stone veneer is real and looks real if installed correctly.
Do you have sketchup textures of your products?
Anything that covers the thin plastic waterproof vapour barrier in front of the insulation and is non structural is a veneer, a simulacrum, a representation of a way of building that simply does not exist and never really did. But that's not dishonest, that's just architecture, it's all fake, make-believe and manipulation...and plaster board, lots of plaster board and drop ceilings of course, don't forget drop ceilings...
How often would we see beautiful stone if there was no veneer?
That's no argument for crappy application, but if we insisted on stone's use only in full wythes at load-bearing conditions, we might never see it.
We're seeing some load-bearing "brick" options make a comeback. Priced at around $22/SF it includes integral insulation, a 16" or larger unit, and then fake unit lines that get grouted to make it look smaller. We're using it mostly in Const Type IIIB existing buildings. The client typically bought the building because of its "character" and love the existing brick walls (typically falling apart) so we need something cheap that gives that look and can work seamlessly integrated into existing walls as well.
I like the way honeycomb stone looks on a rain screen.
Its not any more dishonest then any other fake material trying to be something its not in the modern architectural world, specifically interiors or interior design.
Hell yeah! Real purists use real rocks for pillows! Modern fluffy stuff is for those who can't appreciate purity.
Looks like crap, but then maybe you have no standards.
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