Carrera, your response kind of makes me want to punch you. You don't want to reward your employees that work hard for you because you don't want to spoil them? You're the boss from Christmas Vacation.
It's one thing to not be able to do so because of business conditions, it's a complete other thing to not do so because you don't feel like it.
Carrea calls his employees children - that is just as telling as deciding not to give out bonuses. It's sad.....
I agree that signs of an economic shift have occurred in the past year, and not handing out bonuses is suspect at this point. Perhaps your firm really cannot afford it,but it then again perhaps you work for someone who isn't interested in the culture of the firm. Maybe you should leave for other more important reasons.
Yeah man sounds like some of the "temporary" cuts from the downturn became permanent at your place, just find a new gig. You said you were moving to Texas anyway right?
Why should Carerra care? If his business is working just fine despite employee happiness why should he change? It's up to his employees to start walking out the door and ruining his schedules before he does something. Some times it takes a big shock to finally wake up and leave. I'd been working for someone who was completely taking advantage of me as a pretend independent contractor. 1099, send him invoices, yet I was working on his hours and office. He started to pressure me to do free hours for redlines and then tried to tell me his friend hired someone better for 20% less and he was only going to pay me that much from the on. I found a really good job 2 weeks later. The point is I knew it was bad before it got to that level but I was stuck in the "at least I have a job" thinking you hear so much. Don't be like that and don't think you have to be loyal either that's another card they play, acting like you are betraying them when you leave. Find a place that gives you a year end bonus that's pathetic. Even my evil contractor position gave me one.
“Bonus - something good that is more than what was expected or required.”
When it becomes something that is “expected”, or “required”, it ceases to be a “bonus” or something “good”. I just paid well, skipped the extras and everybody’s year-end whining.
Don’t know about that “punch in the face”, but did have an employee throw a chair at me once…I mailed him his stuff…that was over 10 years ago and he still can’t get a job in the business…I second the motion, if you don’t like what’s going on, just leave, because you can trust the fact that if I don’t like what’s going on with you, you will leave.
The tail does not wag the dog….if you think it does, it’s an illusion.
Would only leave of you feel you can to better somewhere else, pay, responsibility, etc. Don't leave just because friends got a bonus and you didn't, no way to know what their pay is like the rest of the year. Even then total compensation if hard to judge
Looking at it rationally, total compensation should be what matters, not whether or not you got a bonus. We give them out sporadically based on profitability, but try not to have it align with the end of the year so it doesn't become an expectation rather than a reward.
A bonus should be a reward for performance, not a holiday obligation. The one time I received a Christmas bonus I was insulted. The worst part was having to say thank you for the insulting gesture that failed to recognize my performance or the dedication and passion I had for the work. It was all I could do not to throw the $100 bill - back then a half-day's pay - back in the boss's face. Especially after the magnaminous display in which it was given.
If you want to keep good people around - bonuses and other perks are the way to do it - being a stingy asshole with moderate pay will not instill any loyalty. I've been on both sides and I prefer the former and if you are not in that situation know that it does exist - so find it. Don't stay someplace that sucks.
I don't know what caused the chair throwing incident but I'm sure it was not one sided. The fact that you are bragging about being the cause of ruining some dudes livelihood 10 years ago speaks volumes about your personality - not his.
I owned my own practice for 32 years and no one left the firm in all those years unless they quit architecture altogether, relocated….or I told them to leave…and when I told them it was the same every time - “It’s not working out, sorry, but today is your last day”…..then came the “Then fuck you”….then the chair came across the conference room table. Who’s got the personality problem?
No one left because the projects were some of the best, too many awards to be a part of, and we plowed the profits back into the office in the form of technology and working environment…words can be misleading, you’re simply misreading mine.
Ah so you retained the drones and the ones with a brain figured out their return on time invested was not making sense. Anyway, R.P., find something dealing with sales, marketing or finance if you want a piece of the profits like that 150k bonus. In architecture you don't get that type of reward until you are at the top. You are a blueprint drafter, a hand to click a mouse, why do you demand a bonus?
I am a licensed architect with 10+ experience.
No one in our office got the bonus for the past two years and everyone is leaving for a new job. Already 15 people have left this year and I think it is a bad sign.
It is time for me to move on too.
Alright, to throw a wrench in this thing from turning into a cesspool... -
What kinds of bonuses have you received in the past? I really didn't know what to expect as I'm a fresh grad just getting into the first portion of IDP. Our office ended up giving extra paid days off, varying from about 1-4 based on seniority and value/'billibility'. Is that common? Or is a straight-up monetary bonus more desired/common? Asking because I'm genuinely curious.
Well, this is my first year NOT receiving an end-of-year bonus as an employee after 20+ years of working in the deep south. My first job I even got $500 after just a few months in that office. Its always been a constant for me, and the lack of one this year (no bonuses for entire office) is a very large warning sign for me. Through my first 20 years the bonuses ranged from a few thousand dollars in the average years to a best of approx. 35% of my salary in a crazy profitable year. I will always take $$ over extra vacation because I can manage my time to make vacation work, whereas $$ can be a difference maker
If your bonus is in the form of a cheque that can be traced back to the firm, one way or another, you're going to have to pay taxes on it.
As has been said, bonuses and perks keep people around. Of course salary is important (duh) but to be shown a little extra appreciation for hard work at the end of the year feels great.
Let's put it this way - the bonuses I receive at my current job, help to keep me going during the rough weeks. Take away my perks (bonus, schedule flexibility, health insurance) and I'd have left long, long ago. I guarantee I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Dec 26, 15 2:20 am ·
·
Carerra is right. A bonus is a reward for bringing in the business increased revenues. Traditionally, when employees work brings an increase in revenue above projections, a bonus or reward for that is a portion of the amount brought into the firm above the income expected.
For example, At the beginning of the year, the firm makes a goal of bringing in $5 Million a year. Due to windfall, good fortune and hard work, the firm brought in $10 MILLION dollars. That's $5 Million dollars above the goal. Therefore, as a bonus the firm distributes a portion of those $5 Millions... say $1 Million and distribute it across to the 25 employees. That averages out to say.... $40,000. In reality, it would likely be 1% to 5% of the $5 Million distributed across the employees. $2,000 to $10,000 bonus. The rest would be retained earnings put into savings or something and later invested in growth of the firm in terms of staff, etc.
This would often be sent out in December before Christmas so one can think of it as a little extra money for Christmas shopping.
Employees can act child-like and expect something that really isn't something that employees should expect. A bonus is a reward for good years that employers give a little of that windfall back to the employees to encourage hard work and build some level of loyalty. It isn't a wage or salary. Bad years or years of non-growth are not years for bonuses to be expected. It isn't about how good or how hard you worked. It is about whether your work paid off better than expected.
Bonuses are not guaranteed. That has to be remembered at all times.
Dec 26, 15 2:59 am ·
·
I'm not arguing individual semantics of individual businesses. I know reality is a little bit different and varies. I'm speaking about the traditional principle of bonuses.
I understand that bonuses aren't always a perk for all employees. I understand that.
Just to make clear before some bullshit debate and the invariable "Get a job." reply by no_form. Be prepared and carry on.
My impression of the past couple years is that these are very good times and any firm that is struggling now will really be in trouble when the overall economy slows
Bonuses are part of compensation. They aren't "extras". Seeing them as "extras" is how you get into trouble. I know of at least two firms in NYC where salaries are artificially deflated to account for pretty big end of year bonus (10-15k on a 50k entry salary). That's how things should be run. Bonuses are how you keep your employees working through the bleak shit that is October to December.
Rick, you are an idiot. That is not how it works at all, but why try to explain because you will have an answer or an excuse just like you do for every little thing in your own bubbled life!
Some firms set salaries lower and tell you it's because bonuses are part of the deal - and some always make good on that promise and some don't. You should only count on bonuses as part of your agreed compensation if the firm guarantees them in writing. Otherwise you're taking a risk by accepting the salary as offered. If a firm makes an offer and tells you that bonuses are a consideration in setting the salary, then get in writing that a bonus of a specified minimum amount is guaranteed, by a specific date, and also get in writing that a prorated amount will still be due on that date even if you are let go before that date.
My bonus this year was 3 weeks salary. The firm has a formula for bonuses that factors in the rating and ranking from annual reviews, and profitability of projects you've worked on, but even low-performers can usually count on $1000 in their Christmas card.
In other firms I've received bonuses ranging from a high of 30% of my annual salary to a low of $100 and a box of chocolate (as an intern), $350 and an art glass vase (at a small firm at the beginning of the recession, shortly before we were all laid off.)
Why is it better for the employee if the employer intentionally decrease guaranteed compensation so that people can feel like they are getting a "bonus"? I don't know about now, but Gensler used to do this, and functionally it just allowed them to unilaterally decrease compensation 30% if they had a bad year without furloughs or triggering unemployment claims.
It's usually in the best interest of the employer, not the employee. One of the advantages is that it allows the firm to adjust compensation without getting in trouble with the Dept of Labor. Example: with salaried (not hourly) staff, firms can't legally cut salaries short term, or cut salaries of some people unless they cut the salaries of all employees in the same position. But if they make everybody's base salary low and then provide discretionary bonuses, they can legally pick and choose who they compensate higher and lower. It also allows the firm to time higher compensation to periods of better cash flow.
The first architecture firm I worked for did the same. I was making $3-5k less than my friends on salary, but the company loved touting that there were performance bonus at years end. It was all based on seniority and ass grabbing. Anything over $1500 was good for a cad monkey like me. It still didn't add up compared to my counterparts/friends whom made more salaried and also would usually get a end of year bonus too.
In architecture bonuses are more or less a benefactor for the employer, not the employee. It allows them to deflate your true salary and worth, and also in theory helps keep ppl from jumping ship on a rocky or sinking (shit) business.... I cant leave this shit job and horrible work environment b/c it's October, and in three months I get an extra $1k bonus on top of my shitty salary...no overtime paying job.
A lot of people in architecture field work long unpaid overtime hours but a lot of employers take this for granted and forget to thank their staffs by giving a bonus.
Bonus is an added nicety - shouldn't be expected. On the other hand, if the firm has made a large profit, then it isn't unreasonable to give out a bonus.
I've been places where there were bonuses - performance and holiday - but prefer the higher salary. A few bosses went out of their way to give holiday bonuses even when times were tough, but that just got weird.
RP: it's about billed work completed and not the hours worked - we should all know this.
p.s. NYC firms are doing well, in general. The firms with China studios have already gone through some layoffs (with more to come), so don't assume we're all doing well.
Every firms different some are doing better than others. If you see your firm raking in money and they don't pay well or give out bonuses please do the industry a favor and invest your time and effort into a firm that appreciates it. I work for Stonehill & Taylor they have been more generous to me than the large corporate firms that was making money hand over fist, I worked for prior. I have about 5 years of experience, not licensed but on my way, and I have felt a bonus anywhere from a 4-6% was fair. However other industries have it much better but that's that way of the world.
no Josh you win by a long shot.......i really liked the stripper who danced to Guns 'n Roses and Danzig so gave her $300 for a lap dance. frankly i was tired of all the stripping and lap dances and wanted to get rid of the Scores cash (funny money). at $300, and not being scum, i was a decent looking lad with a broken leg from playing rugby, so she decided to befriend me. she started to tell me her qouta was $500 a night (fuck architecture) and was attending Columbia. I said really? what you studying? she said German, i spoke fluent German, she had nothing. she followed that with lets go clubbing and her dad was a mob runner in Queebs. i declined..... Norway for 2-3 weeks would of been better.
check. so took out credit to cover check. reality is never as funny as it should be, if you knew the architect who paid me that bonus Score money wouldn't have been that far fetched.
only big bonus in 1997, two months pay for winning a big competition for the company, spent a month in Italy with the family. Since then it's been minutia and mostly non existent.
end of year bonus
Has everyone got a bonus this year?
I am working at a mid-size firm in NYC and haven't got the bonus two years in a row.
Architecture firms in NYC have been very busy past few years and it is very frustrating.
Should I find a new job?
why are you still working there? unless you're into being someone's bitch, just quit and go elsewhere. everyone is hiring.
Yeah, I'd start looking for another gig as soon as I found out. Even a token gesture of thanks can go a long way, but then only for so long.
Gave bonuses every year until one year we couldn’t afford one, everybody hated me then…then I stopped altogether…. best not to spoil the children.
Bonus? There are legends of such a thing from before 2008, but not since. Perhaps one day...
It's one thing to not be able to do so because of business conditions, it's a complete other thing to not do so because you don't feel like it.
Carrea calls his employees children - that is just as telling as deciding not to give out bonuses. It's sad.....
I agree that signs of an economic shift have occurred in the past year, and not handing out bonuses is suspect at this point. Perhaps your firm really cannot afford it,but it then again perhaps you work for someone who isn't interested in the culture of the firm. Maybe you should leave for other more important reasons.
I read that last night and thought: total dick move.
Yeah man sounds like some of the "temporary" cuts from the downturn became permanent at your place, just find a new gig. You said you were moving to Texas anyway right?
Why should Carerra care? If his business is working just fine despite employee happiness why should he change? It's up to his employees to start walking out the door and ruining his schedules before he does something. Some times it takes a big shock to finally wake up and leave. I'd been working for someone who was completely taking advantage of me as a pretend independent contractor. 1099, send him invoices, yet I was working on his hours and office. He started to pressure me to do free hours for redlines and then tried to tell me his friend hired someone better for 20% less and he was only going to pay me that much from the on. I found a really good job 2 weeks later. The point is I knew it was bad before it got to that level but I was stuck in the "at least I have a job" thinking you hear so much. Don't be like that and don't think you have to be loyal either that's another card they play, acting like you are betraying them when you leave. Find a place that gives you a year end bonus that's pathetic. Even my evil contractor position gave me one.
If your firm can't manage to put a few bucks under its pillow by year-end, it's being mismanaged and the owners need to look at making changes.
“Bonus - something good that is more than what was expected or required.”
When it becomes something that is “expected”, or “required”, it ceases to be a “bonus” or something “good”. I just paid well, skipped the extras and everybody’s year-end whining.
Don’t know about that “punch in the face”, but did have an employee throw a chair at me once…I mailed him his stuff…that was over 10 years ago and he still can’t get a job in the business…I second the motion, if you don’t like what’s going on, just leave, because you can trust the fact that if I don’t like what’s going on with you, you will leave.
The tail does not wag the dog….if you think it does, it’s an illusion.
Would only leave of you feel you can to better somewhere else, pay, responsibility, etc. Don't leave just because friends got a bonus and you didn't, no way to know what their pay is like the rest of the year. Even then total compensation if hard to judge
What would posess anyone to throw as chair?
Looking at it rationally, total compensation should be what matters, not whether or not you got a bonus. We give them out sporadically based on profitability, but try not to have it align with the end of the year so it doesn't become an expectation rather than a reward.
^ Bc they work in architecture, the most magical prancing unicorn of an occupation ever!!!
What would posess anyone to throw as chair?
Because they didn't get a Christmas bonus.
A bonus should be a reward for performance, not a holiday obligation. The one time I received a Christmas bonus I was insulted. The worst part was having to say thank you for the insulting gesture that failed to recognize my performance or the dedication and passion I had for the work. It was all I could do not to throw the $100 bill - back then a half-day's pay - back in the boss's face. Especially after the magnaminous display in which it was given.
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas!
If you want to keep good people around - bonuses and other perks are the way to do it - being a stingy asshole with moderate pay will not instill any loyalty. I've been on both sides and I prefer the former and if you are not in that situation know that it does exist - so find it. Don't stay someplace that sucks.
I don't know what caused the chair throwing incident but I'm sure it was not one sided. The fact that you are bragging about being the cause of ruining some dudes livelihood 10 years ago speaks volumes about your personality - not his.
Hard to avoid jealousy in this profession
I owned my own practice for 32 years and no one left the firm in all those years unless they quit architecture altogether, relocated….or I told them to leave…and when I told them it was the same every time - “It’s not working out, sorry, but today is your last day”…..then came the “Then fuck you”….then the chair came across the conference room table. Who’s got the personality problem?
No one left because the projects were some of the best, too many awards to be a part of, and we plowed the profits back into the office in the form of technology and working environment…words can be misleading, you’re simply misreading mine.
Ah so you retained the drones and the ones with a brain figured out their return on time invested was not making sense. Anyway, R.P., find something dealing with sales, marketing or finance if you want a piece of the profits like that 150k bonus. In architecture you don't get that type of reward until you are at the top. You are a blueprint drafter, a hand to click a mouse, why do you demand a bonus?
No one in our office got the bonus for the past two years and everyone is leaving for a new job. Already 15 people have left this year and I think it is a bad sign.
It is time for me to move on too.
What kinds of bonuses have you received in the past? I really didn't know what to expect as I'm a fresh grad just getting into the first portion of IDP. Our office ended up giving extra paid days off, varying from about 1-4 based on seniority and value/'billibility'. Is that common? Or is a straight-up monetary bonus more desired/common? Asking because I'm genuinely curious.
Well, this is my first year NOT receiving an end-of-year bonus as an employee after 20+ years of working in the deep south. My first job I even got $500 after just a few months in that office. Its always been a constant for me, and the lack of one this year (no bonuses for entire office) is a very large warning sign for me. Through my first 20 years the bonuses ranged from a few thousand dollars in the average years to a best of approx. 35% of my salary in a crazy profitable year. I will always take $$ over extra vacation because I can manage my time to make vacation work, whereas $$ can be a difference maker
I'd rather have the higher salary, taxes take a big chunk of the bonus
If your bonus is in the form of a cheque that can be traced back to the firm, one way or another, you're going to have to pay taxes on it.
As has been said, bonuses and perks keep people around. Of course salary is important (duh) but to be shown a little extra appreciation for hard work at the end of the year feels great.
Let's put it this way - the bonuses I receive at my current job, help to keep me going during the rough weeks. Take away my perks (bonus, schedule flexibility, health insurance) and I'd have left long, long ago. I guarantee I'm not the only one who feels this way.
Carerra is right. A bonus is a reward for bringing in the business increased revenues. Traditionally, when employees work brings an increase in revenue above projections, a bonus or reward for that is a portion of the amount brought into the firm above the income expected.
For example, At the beginning of the year, the firm makes a goal of bringing in $5 Million a year. Due to windfall, good fortune and hard work, the firm brought in $10 MILLION dollars. That's $5 Million dollars above the goal. Therefore, as a bonus the firm distributes a portion of those $5 Millions... say $1 Million and distribute it across to the 25 employees. That averages out to say.... $40,000. In reality, it would likely be 1% to 5% of the $5 Million distributed across the employees. $2,000 to $10,000 bonus. The rest would be retained earnings put into savings or something and later invested in growth of the firm in terms of staff, etc.
This would often be sent out in December before Christmas so one can think of it as a little extra money for Christmas shopping.
Employees can act child-like and expect something that really isn't something that employees should expect. A bonus is a reward for good years that employers give a little of that windfall back to the employees to encourage hard work and build some level of loyalty. It isn't a wage or salary. Bad years or years of non-growth are not years for bonuses to be expected. It isn't about how good or how hard you worked. It is about whether your work paid off better than expected.
Bonuses are not guaranteed. That has to be remembered at all times.
I'm not arguing individual semantics of individual businesses. I know reality is a little bit different and varies. I'm speaking about the traditional principle of bonuses.
I understand that bonuses aren't always a perk for all employees. I understand that.
Just to make clear before some bullshit debate and the invariable "Get a job." reply by no_form. Be prepared and carry on.
my god how the lawyers are laughing
but thats ok cuz theyre also choking on shit
My impression of the past couple years is that these are very good times and any firm that is struggling now will really be in trouble when the overall economy slows
Bonuses are part of compensation. They aren't "extras". Seeing them as "extras" is how you get into trouble. I know of at least two firms in NYC where salaries are artificially deflated to account for pretty big end of year bonus (10-15k on a 50k entry salary). That's how things should be run. Bonuses are how you keep your employees working through the bleak shit that is October to December.
is that how you distribute the 5 million over estimated profit at your company rick? otherwise, who pays your bonus?
i don't know, but it sounds like you don't have a lot of experience on the topic you're discussing.
Rick, you are an idiot. That is not how it works at all, but why try to explain because you will have an answer or an excuse just like you do for every little thing in your own bubbled life!
Some firms set salaries lower and tell you it's because bonuses are part of the deal - and some always make good on that promise and some don't. You should only count on bonuses as part of your agreed compensation if the firm guarantees them in writing. Otherwise you're taking a risk by accepting the salary as offered. If a firm makes an offer and tells you that bonuses are a consideration in setting the salary, then get in writing that a bonus of a specified minimum amount is guaranteed, by a specific date, and also get in writing that a prorated amount will still be due on that date even if you are let go before that date.
My bonus this year was 3 weeks salary. The firm has a formula for bonuses that factors in the rating and ranking from annual reviews, and profitability of projects you've worked on, but even low-performers can usually count on $1000 in their Christmas card.
In other firms I've received bonuses ranging from a high of 30% of my annual salary to a low of $100 and a box of chocolate (as an intern), $350 and an art glass vase (at a small firm at the beginning of the recession, shortly before we were all laid off.)
Why is it better for the employee if the employer intentionally decrease guaranteed compensation so that people can feel like they are getting a "bonus"? I don't know about now, but Gensler used to do this, and functionally it just allowed them to unilaterally decrease compensation 30% if they had a bad year without furloughs or triggering unemployment claims.
It's usually in the best interest of the employer, not the employee. One of the advantages is that it allows the firm to adjust compensation without getting in trouble with the Dept of Labor. Example: with salaried (not hourly) staff, firms can't legally cut salaries short term, or cut salaries of some people unless they cut the salaries of all employees in the same position. But if they make everybody's base salary low and then provide discretionary bonuses, they can legally pick and choose who they compensate higher and lower. It also allows the firm to time higher compensation to periods of better cash flow.
The first architecture firm I worked for did the same. I was making $3-5k less than my friends on salary, but the company loved touting that there were performance bonus at years end. It was all based on seniority and ass grabbing. Anything over $1500 was good for a cad monkey like me. It still didn't add up compared to my counterparts/friends whom made more salaried and also would usually get a end of year bonus too.
In architecture bonuses are more or less a benefactor for the employer, not the employee. It allows them to deflate your true salary and worth, and also in theory helps keep ppl from jumping ship on a rocky or sinking (shit) business.... I cant leave this shit job and horrible work environment b/c it's October, and in three months I get an extra $1k bonus on top of my shitty salary...no overtime paying job.
Wut.
No offense, but if you're doing overtime expecting a bonus, and you're licensed, I have a few choice words for you which I will now keep for myself.
Bonus is an added nicety - shouldn't be expected. On the other hand, if the firm has made a large profit, then it isn't unreasonable to give out a bonus.
I've been places where there were bonuses - performance and holiday - but prefer the higher salary. A few bosses went out of their way to give holiday bonuses even when times were tough, but that just got weird.
RP: it's about billed work completed and not the hours worked - we should all know this.
p.s. NYC firms are doing well, in general. The firms with China studios have already gone through some layoffs (with more to come), so don't assume we're all doing well.
once spent a mid-year bonus in it's entirety at a strip club in 8 hours.(Scores)
You win.
no Josh you win by a long shot.......i really liked the stripper who danced to Guns 'n Roses and Danzig so gave her $300 for a lap dance. frankly i was tired of all the stripping and lap dances and wanted to get rid of the Scores cash (funny money). at $300, and not being scum, i was a decent looking lad with a broken leg from playing rugby, so she decided to befriend me. she started to tell me her qouta was $500 a night (fuck architecture) and was attending Columbia. I said really? what you studying? she said German, i spoke fluent German, she had nothing. she followed that with lets go clubbing and her dad was a mob runner in Queebs. i declined..... Norway for 2-3 weeks would of been better.
Bonus was paid in scores money?
check. so took out credit to cover check. reality is never as funny as it should be, if you knew the architect who paid me that bonus Score money wouldn't have been that far fetched.
no bonus since 2008
only big bonus in 1997, two months pay for winning a big competition for the company, spent a month in Italy with the family. Since then it's been minutia and mostly non existent.
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