if it's not race what is it bulgar? why are people in this area of baltimore treated different than people in other areas of baltimore? why don't they have adequate infrastructure, a better economy, safer streets, and the amenities offered in other areas of the city? why isn't the city focused on cleaning the drinking water, and providing adequate medical attention to those who need it?
here's a neat little map of baltimore showing how many abandoned houses are in baltimore, in predominantly black neighborhoods
Stop acting like thugs; stop looking like they are about to hurt someone; stop perpetuating a thug culture through rap and hip hop music that disgraces women and teaches all the four letter words you can possibly know in the english language...
And guess what is the most sad about this entire situation-
little uneducated children aren't talking about how scared they are at home... they are talking about how cool it is to be missing school because of this or how cool it is that they saw someone at the Riots on TV...
If people were just a little bit more self controlled and demure, then I think everyone else would have a completely different impression...
Curt, it isn't that it can't be fixed, it's because nobody wants to fix it. Didn’t you see my post about the newspaper article? It’s plain as day that the white community doesn’t want to fix things. People in this country hate people who just smoke (that’s what it’s turned into), can you image what they really think about these people?
right. so racism is a perception. that perception has caused a lack of investment in infrastructure including basic utility services, education, and access to decent food.
but they should act like you do and become a successful professional just like you did? you don't think their environment holds them back a little?
if they would just be quite, maybe a nice peaceful sit-in while at school, where it would be a little easier for geraldo and fox news to continue to ignore the problems, then what? the city will all of a sudden decide that there shouldn't be lead in the water? abandoned houses will get cleaned up? retail and industry magically show up to provide jobs with livable incomes? hell, i bet they all become entrepreneurs and get that free capital carerra likes to talk about so they can start their own businesses.
carrera, i don't really know what you were talking about with the newspaper guy. the point missed me.
Curt- I think if they were different, then they themselves would have the values necessary to clean up their own neighborhoods... why do you always have to rely on Government to come and clean up a mess?
It's kind of like saying that I don't need to do any other studying other than what is taught at Public School in order for me to succeed. The reality is, that people need to take initiative and quite making excuses for everything. They need to push themselves to be better. And some of this comes from Parenting. Why do most kids spend hours on the basketball court and next to none reading some book that may enlighten them? The libraries are free...
It's sad that history has pushed people to this point, but we have to move on... we can't continue to dwell on the past...
I don't think that ALL blacks are perceived as thugs... I think that the young punks who patronize certain celebrities and come up with ever more twisted ways of showcasing their disgusting and perverted minds through what they call "poetry" (aka RAP) ruin it for everyone else...
it doesn't always take the government to clean up a mess, but it pretty much always takes capital, and since they've faced discrimination in access to good jobs, education, and housing for decades, that capital was probably hard to come by for them.
lead in the drinking water is a different story. government is required to help there. the government owns the water collection and purification systems, and they aren't going to let a mob of low income people clean it up.
it's kind of like saying you don't seem to understand that life is different for the people living in this neighborhood. the reality is that the experiences in your life are different, be it with relations within your community, your teachers, the first people who gave you an opportunity in the field of architecture, the police who may have looked the other way or given you a break they wouldn't give to a minority on baltimore, etc. what you've experienced is not what these people experience, so to say you were able to go to the library is not relevant.
if their parents are thrown in jail because cops are racist, then what are they supposed to do? not saying that always happens, but come on. the problem isn't what's happened 400 years ago. it's lead that's still in the drinking water today (or at least it was a few years ago). dilapidated schools, dilapidated housing, lack of capital improvement projects, lack of decent jobs, and a million other things in this environment that are different from your isolated bubble
400 years of oppression, means something, yet white people, especially those that come here in the twentieth century, think they're somehow disconnected from that past. Douche bags like BulConnerBlogger, are fucking asshats, and can't be rationalized with, only stepped on, like fucking vermin.
he did say that schooling and education are important. he took all sorts of moral high ground positions with "just as moral values are not a race issue. Right and wrong is just as clear to me. . ." isn't that a cry for help, that he wants to learn, that he wants to be a better person?
maybe it's better to hold out a hand and say 'come join us' rather than 'stay away.' or maybe not. i don't know.
curt- I actually do agree with many things you have said... and frankly, I didn't think of them that way... I guess I have grown up in a different environment. I just can't relate to any of it, and from the outside, it just seems like a giant excuse.
Kudlow: "White collar guys get longer sentences than they deserve. Have we taken this too far? has the Justice department gone too far in the half dozen years since the crash?"
Sorkin: "Close to ten years." [Kozlowski served 6 years in prison.] "And, uh, that, arguably, is a very long time. By the way, people like Bernie Ebbers [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Ebbers], still in prison today, will be there for a VERY long time."
Other commentator: "And how much does that cost the tax payers?"
Sorkin: "Somewhere between $20K and $60K a year, per inmate. It's an enormous amount of money."
Kudlow: "There's [sic] a lot of people looking for sentencing reform -- both Democrats and Republicans. A lot of these cases get overturned. So, I just don't get this. It seems like there's no standardization. If you're guilty you're guilty. I just don't get it."
Evans: "You think this is all too tough, Larry, on white collar criminals?"
Kudlow: "I do, I do."
Other commentator: "I just don't wanna pay for it."
"Wells Fargo, Ms. Jacobson said in an interview, saw the black community as fertile ground for subprime mortgages, as working-class blacks were hungry to be a part of the nation’s home-owning mania. Loan officers, she said, pushed customers who could have qualified for prime loans into subprime mortgages. Another loan officer stated in an affidavit filed last week that employees had referred to blacks as “mud people” and to subprime lending as “ghetto loans.”"
400 years of oppression. I have to politely disagree. As a young black male, I am not oppressed. It's hard for everyone who isn't born with a silver spoon. But everyday I bust my ass to make sure I learn something new and find a way to "make it." I'm surviving, but I sure in hell ain't living.
It's a mindset that you have to have to be able to live in America. One is the ability to hustle and go after what you think you deserve, in a legal manner. The other is a street awareness that you have to be able to survive. The ability to switch these off or on is what some people lack. Bulgar, for all of his ignorance, is a product of his upbringing, the same as sutures is of his. At the end of the day, name calling and continually to deepen the chasm that is the racial divide will not make progress happen.
Do I agree with Bulgar? No. I don't agree with sutures either, but I understand where they both come from. I have lived both lives and for all of my brilliance, I still feel as if I'm behind the eight ball in a lot of things. I work harder (READ: smarter) than most people, but I do not receive the same benefits as they do. Do I hold it against them and cry white privilege? No, I get angry and get better. It's a shitty life to live in America when you're looked at with suspension no matter how you dress, where you work, or how you talk.
Brandon, good on you, however, I refuse to give an inch to racist fuckwits. Saw enough of that shit when my father was in the military in the 70's.
I firmly believe in the content of people's character. Do I believe that it's "ok" to burn people's businesses to the ground? No, but I can empathize, and understand, what many people must be feeling, especially when these same people are being gunned down by the state, or see parts of Baltimore, and surrounding communities, get investment, all while the dis-investment happens all around them.
You shouldn't have to work harder than me, for anything, unless your drive is intrinsic to you, and not because people see me as somehow being the "white[right]" option.
Bulgar, I'd encourage you to read even a little bit on the history of rap. I am by no means an expert myself, but suffice to say that the topics that frequently populate contemporary hip-hop music are not the be all and end all of rap, which has deep in the African and African-American communities. I would hesitate to dismiss the music so strongly identified with a particular racial group as easily as you do, especially knowing that the subject matter that tends to boost performers to the top of the charts is that which appeals to people of every race, not just the group you are vilifying here.
I am only vilifying the ignorant and uneducated part of that racial group- I am not trying to say that everyone of that race is this or that... It is easy to stereotype and I think its important to bring the sterotypes out onto the table because apparently no one else who thinks this way (and there are many who out in public would never dare speak their minds on this subject) would have the courage to come out and do it.
As far as working "hard"... There's an old adage- don't work hard, work smart. So many in working class families (including my mother) love to talk about how they've had an exhausting day at work- a 14hour day as an example.... Multiply that by a week, a month, a year.... If that is all you show you can do then you will continue to work "hard" and get nowhere in life, just like my mother... You have to set yourself up such that others see potential in you. Even in mostly "white" work settings, there are politics involved, so as another saying goes- when in Rome, do as the Romans. This "being yourself" bullshit, is... Bullshit. Discrimination exists not for its own sake, but in my opinion as a mechanism that filters out undesireable behavior. If you show up at an interview with a hoodie and some timberlands and are applying for a service job- then yeah you won't get hired. If your prospective emoloyer hears you speak, and you say "I axed you" instead of "I asked you," then in his mind what is to prevent you from writing that way and making a spelling mistake when you write an important email to an important client? I would love to live in a world where the playing field is level, but it aint so. Rather than going against the grain and "being yourself," go walong with what society expects of you and once your break the barrier, then you can go back and define who you want to be... Otherwise you sound like a complaining fool who hasn't made it any in life.
If that is all you show you can do then you will continue to work "hard" and get nowhere in life, just like my mother... You have to set yourself up such that others see potential in you.
Boy that's harsh... Your Mom working to support your brat ass and that's how you see it...?
None of this shit matters... You think that bullshitting on this site is going to make any difference?? Haha .. I only participate for my personal entertainment... You people take this shit tooo seriously. But if my opinion is to be considered as part of a sample of a more general point of view, no one on this forum has a majority. The truth is somewhere in the middle of where all of us stand, and i would love to find that truth...
At the end of the day, nothing will change in America until the financial elite have been put in a situation such that is detrimental to their livelihoods. This is why we cannot and will not ever have substantive tax reform or penalties for shipping jobs overseas to secure a healthy bottom line in economics. If you want something to change, target the pockets of Americans and the world money leaders, and watch how fast laws are passed.
For Baltimore's sake and every other city that has a problem such as this, the only way to fix it is to bring it out to the front and talk about it incessantly. If it stays behind closed doors and online forums, it will never get fixed. We can scream and shout online or in our homes until we are blue in the face, but is it changing anything really? No.
Like history, but not an expert, but curious about Brandon’s hypothesis and wonder where all the big and dramatic shifts came from in humanity & government over the centuries..…suspect mostly disasters and I bet rioting….even the peaceful civil rights demonstrations resulted in rioting….the birth of unions & the end to Vietnam…..seems you need near civil war to bring change….wondering.
there are a lot of people quite comfortable with the way things are.
if you had to give up your money, luxury, and comfort so that other people would get adequate healthy food and healthcare, would you do it?
if the economy keeps going to direction piketty thinks it might, where wealth can only come from capital and not so much from labor, then there's no point working for a living. the profit motive isn't that your employees work for your gain, but they work for their own gain. take that away, and eventually there will be enough people fed up with the inability to improve their lives or support their families that they will have no other option but to fix it.
and since you likely aren't going to agree to fix things if it involves personal sacrifice, that limits everyone's options. piketty is french. when they got to that point, they started building guillotines.
BALTIMORE
if it's not race what is it bulgar? why are people in this area of baltimore treated different than people in other areas of baltimore? why don't they have adequate infrastructure, a better economy, safer streets, and the amenities offered in other areas of the city? why isn't the city focused on cleaning the drinking water, and providing adequate medical attention to those who need it?
here's a neat little map of baltimore showing how many abandoned houses are in baltimore, in predominantly black neighborhoods
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2015/04/28/these-two-maps-show-the-shocking-inequality-in-baltimore/
here's an article from the new york times about the disproportionate number of black men removed black men removed from their neighborhoods
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2015/04/20/upshot/missing-black-men.html?_r=0&abt=0002&abg=0
maybe some conjecture in there, but surely it starts to appear that there is something wrong, and something that could be fixed if we tried.
BECAUSE THEY ARE PERCEIVED THAT WAY!!
Stop acting like thugs; stop looking like they are about to hurt someone; stop perpetuating a thug culture through rap and hip hop music that disgraces women and teaches all the four letter words you can possibly know in the english language...
And guess what is the most sad about this entire situation-
little uneducated children aren't talking about how scared they are at home... they are talking about how cool it is to be missing school because of this or how cool it is that they saw someone at the Riots on TV...
If people were just a little bit more self controlled and demure, then I think everyone else would have a completely different impression...
Curt, it isn't that it can't be fixed, it's because nobody wants to fix it. Didn’t you see my post about the newspaper article? It’s plain as day that the white community doesn’t want to fix things. People in this country hate people who just smoke (that’s what it’s turned into), can you image what they really think about these people?
right. so racism is a perception. that perception has caused a lack of investment in infrastructure including basic utility services, education, and access to decent food.
but they should act like you do and become a successful professional just like you did? you don't think their environment holds them back a little?
if they would just be quite, maybe a nice peaceful sit-in while at school, where it would be a little easier for geraldo and fox news to continue to ignore the problems, then what? the city will all of a sudden decide that there shouldn't be lead in the water? abandoned houses will get cleaned up? retail and industry magically show up to provide jobs with livable incomes? hell, i bet they all become entrepreneurs and get that free capital carerra likes to talk about so they can start their own businesses.
carrera, i don't really know what you were talking about with the newspaper guy. the point missed me.
Curt- I think if they were different, then they themselves would have the values necessary to clean up their own neighborhoods... why do you always have to rely on Government to come and clean up a mess?
It's kind of like saying that I don't need to do any other studying other than what is taught at Public School in order for me to succeed. The reality is, that people need to take initiative and quite making excuses for everything. They need to push themselves to be better. And some of this comes from Parenting. Why do most kids spend hours on the basketball court and next to none reading some book that may enlighten them? The libraries are free...
It's sad that history has pushed people to this point, but we have to move on... we can't continue to dwell on the past...
one clarification-
I don't think that ALL blacks are perceived as thugs... I think that the young punks who patronize certain celebrities and come up with ever more twisted ways of showcasing their disgusting and perverted minds through what they call "poetry" (aka RAP) ruin it for everyone else...
it doesn't always take the government to clean up a mess, but it pretty much always takes capital, and since they've faced discrimination in access to good jobs, education, and housing for decades, that capital was probably hard to come by for them.
lead in the drinking water is a different story. government is required to help there. the government owns the water collection and purification systems, and they aren't going to let a mob of low income people clean it up.
it's kind of like saying you don't seem to understand that life is different for the people living in this neighborhood. the reality is that the experiences in your life are different, be it with relations within your community, your teachers, the first people who gave you an opportunity in the field of architecture, the police who may have looked the other way or given you a break they wouldn't give to a minority on baltimore, etc. what you've experienced is not what these people experience, so to say you were able to go to the library is not relevant.
if their parents are thrown in jail because cops are racist, then what are they supposed to do? not saying that always happens, but come on. the problem isn't what's happened 400 years ago. it's lead that's still in the drinking water today (or at least it was a few years ago). dilapidated schools, dilapidated housing, lack of capital improvement projects, lack of decent jobs, and a million other things in this environment that are different from your isolated bubble
You can't rationalize with the KKK.
400 years of oppression, means something, yet white people, especially those that come here in the twentieth century, think they're somehow disconnected from that past. Douche bags like BulConnerBlogger, are fucking asshats, and can't be rationalized with, only stepped on, like fucking vermin.
he did say that schooling and education are important. he took all sorts of moral high ground positions with "just as moral values are not a race issue. Right and wrong is just as clear to me. . ." isn't that a cry for help, that he wants to learn, that he wants to be a better person?
maybe it's better to hold out a hand and say 'come join us' rather than 'stay away.' or maybe not. i don't know.
Anyone that calls the disenfranchised, thugs, is a fuck.
curt- I actually do agree with many things you have said... and frankly, I didn't think of them that way... I guess I have grown up in a different environment. I just can't relate to any of it, and from the outside, it just seems like a giant excuse.
Thugs = Niggers
Kudlow: "White collar guys get longer sentences than they deserve. Have we taken this too far? has the Justice department gone too far in the half dozen years since the crash?"
Sorkin: "There's [sic] two pieces to this. Kozlowski [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dennis_Kozlowski] you could argue that the, uhm, the time was probably too long."
Kelly Evans: "How many years was he in prison?"
Sorkin: "Close to ten years." [Kozlowski served 6 years in prison.] "And, uh, that, arguably, is a very long time. By the way, people like Bernie Ebbers [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Ebbers], still in prison today, will be there for a VERY long time."
Other commentator: "And how much does that cost the tax payers?"
Sorkin: "Somewhere between $20K and $60K a year, per inmate. It's an enormous amount of money."
Kudlow: "There's [sic] a lot of people looking for sentencing reform -- both Democrats and Republicans. A lot of these cases get overturned. So, I just don't get this. It seems like there's no standardization. If you're guilty you're guilty. I just don't get it."
Evans: "You think this is all too tough, Larry, on white collar criminals?"
Kudlow: "I do, I do."
Other commentator: "I just don't wanna pay for it."
Blaxploitation
"Wells Fargo, Ms. Jacobson said in an interview, saw the black community as fertile ground for subprime mortgages, as working-class blacks were hungry to be a part of the nation’s home-owning mania. Loan officers, she said, pushed customers who could have qualified for prime loans into subprime mortgages. Another loan officer stated in an affidavit filed last week that employees had referred to blacks as “mud people” and to subprime lending as “ghetto loans.”"
"one clarification-
I don't think that ALL blacks are perceived as thugs"
Oh. Everything is OK, then.
^ tell me about it.
400 years of oppression. I have to politely disagree. As a young black male, I am not oppressed. It's hard for everyone who isn't born with a silver spoon. But everyday I bust my ass to make sure I learn something new and find a way to "make it." I'm surviving, but I sure in hell ain't living.
It's a mindset that you have to have to be able to live in America. One is the ability to hustle and go after what you think you deserve, in a legal manner. The other is a street awareness that you have to be able to survive. The ability to switch these off or on is what some people lack. Bulgar, for all of his ignorance, is a product of his upbringing, the same as sutures is of his. At the end of the day, name calling and continually to deepen the chasm that is the racial divide will not make progress happen.
Do I agree with Bulgar? No. I don't agree with sutures either, but I understand where they both come from. I have lived both lives and for all of my brilliance, I still feel as if I'm behind the eight ball in a lot of things. I work harder (READ: smarter) than most people, but I do not receive the same benefits as they do. Do I hold it against them and cry white privilege? No, I get angry and get better. It's a shitty life to live in America when you're looked at with suspension no matter how you dress, where you work, or how you talk.
Brandon, good on you, however, I refuse to give an inch to racist fuckwits. Saw enough of that shit when my father was in the military in the 70's.
I firmly believe in the content of people's character. Do I believe that it's "ok" to burn people's businesses to the ground? No, but I can empathize, and understand, what many people must be feeling, especially when these same people are being gunned down by the state, or see parts of Baltimore, and surrounding communities, get investment, all while the dis-investment happens all around them.
You shouldn't have to work harder than me, for anything, unless your drive is intrinsic to you, and not because people see me as somehow being the "white[right]" option.
this is how it works.
Bulgar, I'd encourage you to read even a little bit on the history of rap. I am by no means an expert myself, but suffice to say that the topics that frequently populate contemporary hip-hop music are not the be all and end all of rap, which has deep in the African and African-American communities. I would hesitate to dismiss the music so strongly identified with a particular racial group as easily as you do, especially knowing that the subject matter that tends to boost performers to the top of the charts is that which appeals to people of every race, not just the group you are vilifying here.
I am only vilifying the ignorant and uneducated part of that racial group- I am not trying to say that everyone of that race is this or that... It is easy to stereotype and I think its important to bring the sterotypes out onto the table because apparently no one else who thinks this way (and there are many who out in public would never dare speak their minds on this subject) would have the courage to come out and do it.
As far as working "hard"... There's an old adage- don't work hard, work smart. So many in working class families (including my mother) love to talk about how they've had an exhausting day at work- a 14hour day as an example.... Multiply that by a week, a month, a year.... If that is all you show you can do then you will continue to work "hard" and get nowhere in life, just like my mother... You have to set yourself up such that others see potential in you. Even in mostly "white" work settings, there are politics involved, so as another saying goes- when in Rome, do as the Romans. This "being yourself" bullshit, is... Bullshit. Discrimination exists not for its own sake, but in my opinion as a mechanism that filters out undesireable behavior. If you show up at an interview with a hoodie and some timberlands and are applying for a service job- then yeah you won't get hired. If your prospective emoloyer hears you speak, and you say "I axed you" instead of "I asked you," then in his mind what is to prevent you from writing that way and making a spelling mistake when you write an important email to an important client? I would love to live in a world where the playing field is level, but it aint so. Rather than going against the grain and "being yourself," go walong with what society expects of you and once your break the barrier, then you can go back and define who you want to be... Otherwise you sound like a complaining fool who hasn't made it any in life.
It's good to know your contempt isn't limited to people you're not related to, dude.
Well Charleston, SC, did it right when faced with a similar situation, so there is hope.
Curt- I think if they were different, then they themselves would have the values necessary to clean up their own neighborhoods...
This is the stupidest thing I've read in a while.
If that is all you show you can do then you will continue to work "hard" and get nowhere in life, just like my mother... You have to set yourself up such that others see potential in you.
Boy that's harsh... Your Mom working to support your brat ass and that's how you see it...?
Yes, that's the way I see it.
None of this shit matters... You think that bullshitting on this site is going to make any difference?? Haha .. I only participate for my personal entertainment... You people take this shit tooo seriously. But if my opinion is to be considered as part of a sample of a more general point of view, no one on this forum has a majority. The truth is somewhere in the middle of where all of us stand, and i would love to find that truth...
You couldn't find the truth if it walked up and showed you on google earth.
Besides, I knew when Orhan posted this thread, that you'd be one of the first people posting a comment.
You're a racist, and I knew the whistle was a frequency you could hear.
Actually orhan's comments on Israel are troublesome... I thought i would shit a little on his thread...
emoloyer
in a post about spelling
obviously an ignorant thug.
Im on an ipad what can I do... :)
BulConnerBlogger = shit in a thread
At the end of the day, nothing will change in America until the financial elite have been put in a situation such that is detrimental to their livelihoods. This is why we cannot and will not ever have substantive tax reform or penalties for shipping jobs overseas to secure a healthy bottom line in economics. If you want something to change, target the pockets of Americans and the world money leaders, and watch how fast laws are passed.
For Baltimore's sake and every other city that has a problem such as this, the only way to fix it is to bring it out to the front and talk about it incessantly. If it stays behind closed doors and online forums, it will never get fixed. We can scream and shout online or in our homes until we are blue in the face, but is it changing anything really? No.
Like history, but not an expert, but curious about Brandon’s hypothesis and wonder where all the big and dramatic shifts came from in humanity & government over the centuries..…suspect mostly disasters and I bet rioting….even the peaceful civil rights demonstrations resulted in rioting….the birth of unions & the end to Vietnam…..seems you need near civil war to bring change….wondering.
there are a lot of people quite comfortable with the way things are.
if you had to give up your money, luxury, and comfort so that other people would get adequate healthy food and healthcare, would you do it?
if the economy keeps going to direction piketty thinks it might, where wealth can only come from capital and not so much from labor, then there's no point working for a living. the profit motive isn't that your employees work for your gain, but they work for their own gain. take that away, and eventually there will be enough people fed up with the inability to improve their lives or support their families that they will have no other option but to fix it.
and since you likely aren't going to agree to fix things if it involves personal sacrifice, that limits everyone's options. piketty is french. when they got to that point, they started building guillotines.
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