The round thingy? How do you churn in a corner? My "guesses" are based on the documents laying out what might be found in a dairy scullery, which may make more sense, spatially speaking.
those unknown rooms - if you're playing modern day they'd probably all be converted to bathrooms - which would be boring. If you're playing in time period - one of those rooms should have one of these in them:
and another should have this:
Mar 28, 15 9:29 pm ·
·
I was referring to the round room adjacent to the dairy scullery not the object in the corner of the dairy scullery room.
Overall, I'm glad to feel that if I never find out what's on this floor plan, I've a bit of freedom in what to make that thing without being incorrect.
Toasteroven, those pictures are amazing. I'd forgotten about that stuff. It's a bit funny, but without the people, and with the right lighting, the contraptions could seem rather creepy. I'm probably going to use at least one of them. And toilets would be boring indeed. There's a joke amongst Resident Evil fans that there's not nearly enough toilets for these locations to have functioned normally before the zombie outbreak.
Rchard, with CastAR, just to be clear, it looks incredible. I do think people are becoming less in touch with the world (I'm not sure this is really the place to expound, but I'd clarify that I love technology; I just don't think it's always applied efficiently; the balance of quality and convenience is not always reached), but I'm not saying CastAR is going to ruin are youth or any thing. And I can see loads of uses for it in the video, far beyond games. Using it as an architectural aid could be brilliant. I would join the forum there but I'm not sure I've the time to do any thing meaningful. I always get overwhelmed by the choices of what to read and am too much of a loner to feel any thing I'd post is important enough.
Speaking of which, Miles's post was about my game. Clearly some people don't want me posting here. Anyone care to explain why so many people here are this poised to tear me down? I happen to know that the game looks pretty good, and it's pretty clear that it's not remotely the final game, and yet, this cunt comes along and says that? I don't really understand. I thought this forum had more decorum from its home page, but there's a lot of vindictive people here and I haven't really done any thing anyone wants to explain to me. I mean, actual adults are trying to abuse me into doing something, probably leaving, and I don't get it.
Bt3 is correct. it is an early form of hot-water heater (often called a copper). A copper bowl was heated by a fire underneath. Ladles were used to move the water to where it was needed for cooking, cleaning, or laundry. Sometimes the bowl was made of cast iron. Also interesting is that the Victorians made extensive use of coal as opposed to wood for a heat source.
Mar 29, 15 8:45 am ·
·
EPD Gaffney,
You could possibly patch existing games you have for use with castAR or current ones. It is something you probably could find time somewhere. The recommendation of the forum is for information and access to the SDK section (contacting Owen there for SDK access). There is a number of independent software developers so there is definitely going to be some appreciation of what you come up with.
With Unreal Integration plugin soon to be released as well as the updated Unity plugin with updates to the SDK functions and all, it could be cool to see what you put together including your current project.
You don't have to chat alot. The forum is a resource and you can get in contact with the Technical Illusions team or from several of the knowledgeable kickstarter backers for information when working on a project.
Mar 29, 15 10:22 am ·
·
I must have missed it because I never saw the demo of your game for some reason. Some folks are concerned about this forum being deviated from architectural discussion. Guys, that isn't going to be happening anytime soon. So it should be interesting for some of you as some of you maybe able to apply your knowledge and skills into video games during lean times in architecture or peripheral to architecture as added avenue of income.
Here, you can explore the art of architecture all you want and get paid and not worry about the HSW matters and liability as in a real life project.
Volunteer: I really don't know what I'm talking about, but regarding the first image (labelled Ground Floor, First Floor, and Second Floor), we have the dairy scullery and the kitchen scullery (the latter labelled simply 'scullery'). The item I'm asking about is the bigger one, in the dairy scullery, and one architect and the webmaster of the site you've linked (1900s.org.uk) both told me that a copper has to be internal (and I think they said it must be in a corner), whereas this item is external. Of course, they could be wrong, but that's what they've told me. In the corner of the kitchen scullery however, there is indeed a copper (again, according to several people that I suppose could be wrong, none of whom are myself, as I know approximately no-thing). Another is inthe brew house, according to this logic.
Richard: I suppose I'll try to get out of my shell and have a go there. I could learn something surely. And maybe meet some developers. I'll never finish this project with so small a team (and me doing 80-90% of the work anyway, at least so far). Unreal Engine 4 support could be interesting, as that's the engine I've been using.
Here's my game's proof of concept, so to speak: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oePnBLZVO88 We're quite a bit further along but no-thing worth making a video about. The majority of the game takes place in this building I'm working on now, and it's nearly done. After that comes textures and once this single asset is complete we'll be miles further along than we are now. But as it satands, untextured and with no props, it's not worth showing off.
I agree with what you're saying about discussing architecture. Especially given the fact that when someone asks me about one of my expert subjects ('small' history, music, and linguistics I suppose) I'm all too happy to give any advice you want. I also didn't think much of it because there's a politics thread, one about what music are people listening to, and stuff like that. Is it because I myself am not an architect?
Mar 29, 15 8:22 pm ·
·
It'll definitely be interesting to incorporate castAR support by employing not only third person view but first person view in stereoscopic view. The fact it is mostly complete, it would just be a little bit of work of tweaking and getting it integrated into your project.
I can help you get started on the technical illusions castAR forum. Let me know if you signed off. you may need to send an email to Owen in case the initial membership settings limits ability to post or post a new thread. It can be quickly resolved if there is any issues. Let me know. I'm known as Wavestar on the forum. After all, too many name Rick can get confusing as there is an official co-founder of Technical Illusions named Rick Johnson.
At some point, you may want to have pre-order a pair of the castAR glasses but wait at this time.
Feel free to contribute in threads that aren't necessarily an architect but listening to music when doing an all-nighter isn't unique to architecture let alone all-nighters. I think a handful of different perspectives in the world is good even for the architects. No one will please everyone all the time so don't worry about it. Some can be asses at time. So don't worry about it. A little thick skin helps after all, one ought to have that to be an architecture major but also in video game development.
I just caution about trolling or doing something that would derail the nature of the forum too much granted the forum topics aren't always strictly architecture related. That's just common sense and nettiquettes.
I don't think you are a real threat to this forum.
Mar 29, 15 9:26 pm ·
·
Are talking about the round NOT octagon room/structure that is adjacent to the dairy scullery?
There is an octagon room/structure that is accessed via a hall way/aisle or passageway between the scullery and the dairy scullery.
EPD Gaffney,
In your drawing the part of the "copper" where you put in wood or coal and take out the ashes is internal to the "dairy scullery" room which is what is important. The fact that it bulges out is of no consequence. That bulging design may be an attempt to keep the temp of the room down.
The large octagonal "dairy" was designed that way to allow for a lot of louvered windows to keep the temperature as low as possible to reduce spoilage of the milk. One source says they were often built over a spring as well. Think of a spring house with the water running underneath.
#1 is probably a water tower/tank a skullery is where you wash things and dairy products require a lot of water to process, water may be pumped up into the tank from a well by a windmill but the well would be located away from the house so as not to contaminate the water.
#2 Probably built in cabinets or closets
#3 I have no idea
#4 is where the servants call bells would be located
#5 I think is a hallway connecting the gentry hall with the dining room
#6 is a fire place, there are two other in line above
#7 might be a toilet or water closet as they were referred to back then
On the next set
#1-6 look like a chimney
The final set
# 7 8 and 9 probably the chimney or the coal shoot to the basement where a furnace would be located
#10 might be bookcases or a built in buffet table
# 11 might be a closet or the area under the eves that is too short to stand in
Richard: Thanks for that. I'll get on it within the next couple of days and let you know once I'm there. I've just been a bit busy.
I've a fairly thick skin. I just thought that in a place where people are using their real names and uploading their CV and education history in an effort to get jobs, that sort of professional atmosphere would preclude this sort of behaviour, unless I were truly making a grave mistake on my own conduct. Kind of gets you nervous if you don't feel at home and are actively trying to be respectful of the place you're visiting.
That octagon room is the dairy itself, but what I'm asking about is the dairy scullery, which contains the round bit. I'm rather sure you've had it right all along.
Volunteer: Fair enough but if that's the case, how do you get out the water from the top of the copper? You wouldn't know of an image, would you? I've tried searching for an external copper but I could've done it wrong. I didn't find it anyhow. And thanks for reminding me of the louvres. Can't forget to model those.
Peter: That's brilliant. Thanks very much.
#1 You wouldn't have any images in mind that you could link me to, would you? or a Downton Abbey episode or two?
#2 If you're interested, I've been told they surround a dormer, which to me made sense with what I was told about #3. Earlier, Spontaneous Combustion said, 'The pairs of boxed-in spaces on the third floor are not chimneys - the chimneys are the poched area in the thickened walls. The pairs of boxes are on either side of dormers - the center space is occupiable because it has a dormer - the boxed-in spaces are the low spaces under the eaves of the main roof, closed off with knee walls.' I was told on a different forum that #3 'is external to the house. The third floor is up under the roof so the window is in a little dormer. It has to be set back from the exterior wall below.' But I have to remove all that from the floor plan anyway, as it's long ago modelled and I'm not changing it. Shame, though. I like the way it'd look on the map in the game.
#4 You're not the first person to suggest that. I'm glad, as I had plans for bells there.
#5 is definitely a servant passage, especially for serving in the dining room. It says so in the book. But I originally labelled it to ask about the different ways of notating doors, which someone answered for me on the other forum.
Thanks for all the insight, lads.
Mar 30, 15 3:11 pm ·
·
There are a some individuals who are sometimes routine a--holes. Don't worry about that too much.
There are some folks with their own individual issues. Some individuals don't like non-architects. some don't care. I personally don't see your thread an issue at this point.
There are alot of people on this forum and when there are alot of people, there is bound to be alot of opinions. So don't worry about the arses that just likes to blow their blow-hole around to make themselves feel all better about themselves.
Just remember, no matter where you go, you'll find at least one a--hole as they are far from being endangered species.
I don't think your conduct is bad but sometimes the snarky ones needs a little back slap once in awhile.
I'll look forward to seeing when you get on the forum because if posting privileges are limited when you first join, I can direct you with information to resolve it. There is some things in place to keep spam bots from posting on the castAR forum.
The Victorians used ladles to transfer the hot/boiling water to other receptacles nearby as needed. Some of the large "coppers" had a spigot used to drain the bowl before cleaning.
Richard: Quite true. Just wanted to be sure I hadn't done any thing wrong myself. I've signed up for an account on the Technical Illusions forum. I'm awaiting an administrator's decision or something similar. I probably won't post all that much so don't be going out of your way or any thing. I've looked into the price of the glasses as well and I think I'll need to wait a bit; they're rather expensive, at least for myself. For what they're capable of it's not so bad a price, but it's not in my budget just now.
Volunteer: I need to see an image as I'm having a bit of trouble visualising an external copper in a way that's not unnecessarily awkward to use. If the size of the opening on the floor plan is any indication, it'd be a tight fit. It'd be interesting to compare it to Peter's suggestion of a water tank, but I can't seem to find an image of that, either.
Mar 31, 15 12:06 pm ·
·
Send an email to: owen AT castar DOT com
Include your user name that you signed on with. This way, he'll be able to respond quicker.
Mar 31, 15 12:18 pm ·
·
No problem waiting a little bit in regards to castAR. If I know what your user name on the forum, I would be able to identify you on the forum.
Regarding a copper in the round room as Volunteer is talking about. It's simple, it was installed before a door was installed and possibly put in place before the walls were erected. For some reason, that round room (not the octagon room but the round room adjacent to the dairy scullery does not seem like a copper but possibly a well. It might be worth researching about the location where the building was proposed to be built such as whether it be a room used for a well or a cold storage room. There maybe several possibilities.
They actually rejected my membership on the forum. I'll have to e-mail owen, so. My name there is the same as it is here.
Sorry but I can't seem to find an image. Could someone please link me an image of any thing that could go in that round spot?
Oh, and I've e-mailed the UKNT if you recall. A few days ago. But no response as yet. It's possible they won't get to it for some time (or at-all) I imagine, so I'd rather not count on that.
Mar 31, 15 7:49 pm ·
·
Regarding the castAR forum, It'll get resolved. It probably some left over cron job by a previous forum administrator so it'll get worked out. After all, emailing them helps to indicate you are not a bot.
I'll follow up with Owen to see if he gets that worked out. If necessary, just resubscribe if necessary if Owen asks.
#1 is not copper, it's masonry of some kind, copper is thin wall construction, and as the poche demonstrates, it's substantially thicker. I think, and based on some of my "basic" googling skillz, I'm going with a cistern, or oven, but if you held a gun to my cranium, I'd pick cistern, due to the lack of chimney on the other levels.
Richard: Thanks a lot. I wasn't too worried over the 'rejection'. Actually I thought it was rather funny. I'll e-mail him probably to-morrow.
b3tadine: Haha, gas fella, you. Could you link me an image? I'm finding all sorts of different cisterns with different functions and don't know how to specify this one.
Volunteer: Thanks. Does that work with what b3tadine was saying (given the mention of masonry foundation)? or is this a separate suggestion?
Everyone: The UKNT have finally got back to me -- to tell me to wait fourteen days and if I don't hear from them they can't help. I can't say I fancy waiting a fortnight but I'm definitely interested in what they have to say.
It is just a large copper bowl with a wooden top set onto a masonry foundation. I don't know if the copper bowl could be easily removed for cleaning or was cleaned in place.
Apr 1, 15 2:48 pm ·
·
Owen got back with me, if you can email me your real name or email account name used, I will forward it to Owen no one else. He is just trying to sort through the spam entries.
I referred to your user name that you mentioned signing up under.
Apr 1, 15 2:56 pm ·
·
EPD Gaffney,
Try again subscribing to the forum. Send email to Owen with your user name, email and other information when you subscribe.
Thanks, Richard. I've resubscribed and e-mailed Owen.
So, new trouble with this floor plan: I don't know much about outbuildings. In general, what requirements am I looking at for modelling these outbuildings?
The kitchen is appropriately tall, and the dairy is slightly less tall. That's all I have so far.
The kitchen of Bignell House had, according to the book, 'the kitchen has an open roof, for light and ventilation.' What does that mean? What roof would be open enough for ventilation but stop rain coming in? (I've googled 'open roof' in various ways and I don't see any thing helpful.)
The Unreal Engine character is about 1.9m, and the ground floor of this manor is generally about 8, including the kitchen, and the dairy is about 5, not counting the rather high roof. I was thinking I'd make all the other outbuilding walls the same height as the dairy, and then roof them individually. Does that sound good?
Bear in mind, this probably sounds like a very large scale. But once it's all proportionate, when viewing it could be interpreted as 10% or 20% smaller.
I'm not asking anyone to do independent research, but if you have any thing to share I'll be grateful. Thanks.
As I was writing that last message, Owen got me in.
Apr 3, 15 3:01 pm ·
·
EPD Gaffney,
Did you look at the perspective rendering. You can roughly estimate the height of the main floor areas by things like the door which is typically about 7-ft. tall for a typical door and about 3 feet wide for a normal width exterior door.
It is not easy to determine the exact floor to ceiling height for each floor but you can approximate it based on scale ratio. Keep in mind that the drawings shown are not the actual construction documents provide one was ever made but they are schematic and leaves alot of room for interpretation and often plates from plan books do not contain sections and other details that would be found in an actual construction documents blueprints.
That is why it isn't easy because we don't have the actual building or a collection of photos from different views of the building let alone interior.
I've done most of the outbuildings now. From what I can tell, you can't go too tall, only too short, so I should be grand.
Most important question: What is meant by 'the kitchen has an open roof, for light and ventilation'? I thought an open roof just had no ceiling, but how could that help with light? Ventilation makes sense, but light I don't understand.
I see a copper that could be a similar construction to the round thing on my floor plan. Any idea of the size of this? It seems the thing on the map is a lot bigger, but perhaps it's not quite to scale.
Apr 6, 15 12:57 pm ·
·
EPD,
Is there a graphic scale on the plan. You can approximate it. There is no knowing exactly how it was without photos of the building which seems to be lacking.
There is a scale but it's extremely difficult to read. If my guess is correct this thing is about seven foot in diametre, which means my building is not to scale with the original but that's fine. What isn't fine is that if I am reading that scale right, this seems far too big to be a copper boiler. Perhaps I'll just shrink it and make it one.
But I really need to know about that 'open roof' in the kitchen if possible. Would it be more than simply exposed rafters and all that?
Apr 7, 15 1:02 am ·
·
In those days, they didn't make rooms with no roofs. Open roof probably means open rafters... ie. no finished ceiling. Just rafters and ceiling joists not a finished ceiling with what was fairly popular in the period, decorative tin ceiling tile and similar such things.
Since the area was kind of utilitarian, the expense in fancy ceiling finishes was not needed.
Lets remember where this is, you wouldn't have such an area exposed to the elements for obvious reason.
That's what I was thinking. The one thing I find odd is he says 'for light and ventilation'. Ventilation makes sense, but how would an unfinished ceiling help with light?
Apr 7, 15 12:10 pm ·
·
There would certainly be ventilation in some form like the copper would vent its smoke out a chimney that would be above the roof line. With exceptions to skylights (not usually used in a utilitarian space and unlikely used in this case with high pitched roofs but however, there is known use of windows along the wall and allow windows to be placed up to higher points along the gable front.
On the other hand, if these roofs had overhang, they may have small eave vents of some kind.
Apr 7, 15 1:08 pm ·
·
Also, lets not forget that the windows were often single or double hung and otherwise opens up and allows ventilation. Also, an open roof would allow smoke to gather up higher. Another thing is what kind of roof material was used. It might be argued slate but it can also not be slate. It can be wood shakes. In wood shake roofing, you would have rafters and then you would have skip or spaced sheathing boards usually with about a couple inches of gap or so between the boards with 1"x6" boards being used. The rafters being about 2" x 6". This skip sheathing allows for the wood shingles to 'breathe' - the expansion and contraction of material due to moisture or temperature especially the evaporation of moisture. This also allows for ventilation given that there is a draft that would be created.
I replied to this hours ago but maybe I never clicked the post button.
I'd like to thank everyone that's helped me here. The manor and outbuildings are all finished and it's off to texturing now. If the UKNT ever respond to my query I'll post that information here. Cheers, lads.
The plans you have presented appear the wrong way around? I actually own a part of this plan The brew house is my kitchen and the coal house is my garage. Point 1 is on my land and the eight sided dairy belongs to my neighbour which actually still stands but as you probably know the house was demolished in the '50's and the only part to remain is a newer part built around 1892. It's difficult to know what was there except there is a soak away from the yard very near that spot which was used for water. It's like a storage tank and we have to pump out the water when it becomes too full. It had a broken Victorian pumping handle when I first bought the house. Great to see all the info. you have posted. Will post again if I can be more helpful on any of the points.
Re #1 - Apparently, preparation of dairy products required constant temperature throughout the year and also a lot of cleaning, therefore a lot of hot water. That corner unit could be a water cistern, boiler, or "copper", used for that purpose. They were mostly built in a corner, with masonry; that opening might be a simple access hatch, see here a pic of an average, 19th century "copper".
This book describes a dairy scullery starting on page 1160. Page 1161 also shows a plan with a scullery having a corner copper looking fairly similar to your plan.
You may want to watch parts of "Victorian Farm", a BBC documentary which recreates that atmosphere really well - they describe dairy products preparation. That is also a great show if you want to familiarise yourself with visual details of those days - clothing, furniture, tools, building interiors, which you can replicate in your project.
Help understanding Victorian floor plan.
Well, it could be a cistern too.
b3tadine....
It can also be a large butter churning equipment in the middle and it was large enough for people to operate. It is hard to say exactly what it is.
Right now, we're guessing.
Miles.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVauXUXwm5-yEVwVZZewoiA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4FhdqMpTgSk
PoV is a matter of position of the virtual camera.
In this case, it comes down to what kind of gaming experience you are wanting to establish. Quite flexible.
The round thingy? How do you churn in a corner? My "guesses" are based on the documents laying out what might be found in a dairy scullery, which may make more sense, spatially speaking.
Pretty sure it's a wood fired bread oven.
Like this one: https://turnspitandtable.files.wordpress.com/2014/10/img_0422.jpg
those unknown rooms - if you're playing modern day they'd probably all be converted to bathrooms - which would be boring. If you're playing in time period - one of those rooms should have one of these in them:
and another should have this:
I was referring to the round room adjacent to the dairy scullery not the object in the corner of the dairy scullery room.
sorry for the confusion
I've found this. Any chance this is evidence for some class of oven?
http://0.tqn.com/d/architecture/1/S/r/i/1/scullery-3069961-crop.jpg
Overall, I'm glad to feel that if I never find out what's on this floor plan, I've a bit of freedom in what to make that thing without being incorrect.
Toasteroven, those pictures are amazing. I'd forgotten about that stuff. It's a bit funny, but without the people, and with the right lighting, the contraptions could seem rather creepy. I'm probably going to use at least one of them.
And toilets would be boring indeed. There's a joke amongst Resident Evil fans that there's not nearly enough toilets for these locations to have functioned normally before the zombie outbreak.
Rchard, with CastAR, just to be clear, it looks incredible. I do think people are becoming less in touch with the world (I'm not sure this is really the place to expound, but I'd clarify that I love technology; I just don't think it's always applied efficiently; the balance of quality and convenience is not always reached), but I'm not saying CastAR is going to ruin are youth or any thing.
And I can see loads of uses for it in the video, far beyond games. Using it as an architectural aid could be brilliant.
I would join the forum there but I'm not sure I've the time to do any thing meaningful. I always get overwhelmed by the choices of what to read and am too much of a loner to feel any thing I'd post is important enough.
Speaking of which, Miles's post was about my game. Clearly some people don't want me posting here. Anyone care to explain why so many people here are this poised to tear me down? I happen to know that the game looks pretty good, and it's pretty clear that it's not remotely the final game, and yet, this cunt comes along and says that? I don't really understand. I thought this forum had more decorum from its home page, but there's a lot of vindictive people here and I haven't really done any thing anyone wants to explain to me. I mean, actual adults are trying to abuse me into doing something, probably leaving, and I don't get it.
http://www.1900s.org.uk/copper-water-heater.htm
Bt3 is correct. it is an early form of hot-water heater (often called a copper). A copper bowl was heated by a fire underneath. Ladles were used to move the water to where it was needed for cooking, cleaning, or laundry. Sometimes the bowl was made of cast iron. Also interesting is that the Victorians made extensive use of coal as opposed to wood for a heat source.
EPD Gaffney,
You could possibly patch existing games you have for use with castAR or current ones. It is something you probably could find time somewhere. The recommendation of the forum is for information and access to the SDK section (contacting Owen there for SDK access). There is a number of independent software developers so there is definitely going to be some appreciation of what you come up with.
With Unreal Integration plugin soon to be released as well as the updated Unity plugin with updates to the SDK functions and all, it could be cool to see what you put together including your current project.
You don't have to chat alot. The forum is a resource and you can get in contact with the Technical Illusions team or from several of the knowledgeable kickstarter backers for information when working on a project.
I must have missed it because I never saw the demo of your game for some reason. Some folks are concerned about this forum being deviated from architectural discussion. Guys, that isn't going to be happening anytime soon. So it should be interesting for some of you as some of you maybe able to apply your knowledge and skills into video games during lean times in architecture or peripheral to architecture as added avenue of income.
Here, you can explore the art of architecture all you want and get paid and not worry about the HSW matters and liability as in a real life project.
Volunteer: I really don't know what I'm talking about, but regarding the first image (labelled Ground Floor, First Floor, and Second Floor), we have the dairy scullery and the kitchen scullery (the latter labelled simply 'scullery'). The item I'm asking about is the bigger one, in the dairy scullery, and one architect and the webmaster of the site you've linked (1900s.org.uk) both told me that a copper has to be internal (and I think they said it must be in a corner), whereas this item is external. Of course, they could be wrong, but that's what they've told me. In the corner of the kitchen scullery however, there is indeed a copper (again, according to several people that I suppose could be wrong, none of whom are myself, as I know approximately no-thing). Another is inthe brew house, according to this logic.
Richard: I suppose I'll try to get out of my shell and have a go there. I could learn something surely. And maybe meet some developers. I'll never finish this project with so small a team (and me doing 80-90% of the work anyway, at least so far).
Unreal Engine 4 support could be interesting, as that's the engine I've been using.
Here's my game's proof of concept, so to speak:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oePnBLZVO88
We're quite a bit further along but no-thing worth making a video about. The majority of the game takes place in this building I'm working on now, and it's nearly done. After that comes textures and once this single asset is complete we'll be miles further along than we are now. But as it satands, untextured and with no props, it's not worth showing off.
I agree with what you're saying about discussing architecture. Especially given the fact that when someone asks me about one of my expert subjects ('small' history, music, and linguistics I suppose) I'm all too happy to give any advice you want. I also didn't think much of it because there's a politics thread, one about what music are people listening to, and stuff like that. Is it because I myself am not an architect?
It'll definitely be interesting to incorporate castAR support by employing not only third person view but first person view in stereoscopic view. The fact it is mostly complete, it would just be a little bit of work of tweaking and getting it integrated into your project.
I can help you get started on the technical illusions castAR forum. Let me know if you signed off. you may need to send an email to Owen in case the initial membership settings limits ability to post or post a new thread. It can be quickly resolved if there is any issues. Let me know. I'm known as Wavestar on the forum. After all, too many name Rick can get confusing as there is an official co-founder of Technical Illusions named Rick Johnson.
At some point, you may want to have pre-order a pair of the castAR glasses but wait at this time.
Feel free to contribute in threads that aren't necessarily an architect but listening to music when doing an all-nighter isn't unique to architecture let alone all-nighters. I think a handful of different perspectives in the world is good even for the architects. No one will please everyone all the time so don't worry about it. Some can be asses at time. So don't worry about it. A little thick skin helps after all, one ought to have that to be an architecture major but also in video game development.
I just caution about trolling or doing something that would derail the nature of the forum too much granted the forum topics aren't always strictly architecture related. That's just common sense and nettiquettes.
I don't think you are a real threat to this forum.
Are talking about the round NOT octagon room/structure that is adjacent to the dairy scullery?
There is an octagon room/structure that is accessed via a hall way/aisle or passageway between the scullery and the dairy scullery.
EPD Gaffney, In your drawing the part of the "copper" where you put in wood or coal and take out the ashes is internal to the "dairy scullery" room which is what is important. The fact that it bulges out is of no consequence. That bulging design may be an attempt to keep the temp of the room down. The large octagonal "dairy" was designed that way to allow for a lot of louvered windows to keep the temperature as low as possible to reduce spoilage of the milk. One source says they were often built over a spring as well. Think of a spring house with the water running underneath.
I would watch Downton Abby
#1 is probably a water tower/tank a skullery is where you wash things and dairy products require a lot of water to process, water may be pumped up into the tank from a well by a windmill but the well would be located away from the house so as not to contaminate the water.
#2 Probably built in cabinets or closets
#3 I have no idea
#4 is where the servants call bells would be located
#5 I think is a hallway connecting the gentry hall with the dining room
#6 is a fire place, there are two other in line above
#7 might be a toilet or water closet as they were referred to back then
On the next set
#1-6 look like a chimney
The final set
# 7 8 and 9 probably the chimney or the coal shoot to the basement where a furnace would be located
#10 might be bookcases or a built in buffet table
# 11 might be a closet or the area under the eves that is too short to stand in
Hope this helps
Peter N
Richard: Thanks for that. I'll get on it within the next couple of days and let you know once I'm there. I've just been a bit busy.
I've a fairly thick skin. I just thought that in a place where people are using their real names and uploading their CV and education history in an effort to get jobs, that sort of professional atmosphere would preclude this sort of behaviour, unless I were truly making a grave mistake on my own conduct. Kind of gets you nervous if you don't feel at home and are actively trying to be respectful of the place you're visiting.
That octagon room is the dairy itself, but what I'm asking about is the dairy scullery, which contains the round bit. I'm rather sure you've had it right all along.
Volunteer: Fair enough but if that's the case, how do you get out the water from the top of the copper? You wouldn't know of an image, would you? I've tried searching for an external copper but I could've done it wrong. I didn't find it anyhow.
And thanks for reminding me of the louvres. Can't forget to model those.
Peter: That's brilliant. Thanks very much.
#1 You wouldn't have any images in mind that you could link me to, would you? or a Downton Abbey episode or two?
#2 If you're interested, I've been told they surround a dormer, which to me made sense with what I was told about #3. Earlier, Spontaneous Combustion said, 'The pairs of boxed-in spaces on the third floor are not chimneys - the chimneys are the poched area in the thickened walls. The pairs of boxes are on either side of dormers - the center space is occupiable because it has a dormer - the boxed-in spaces are the low spaces under the eaves of the main roof, closed off with knee walls.' I was told on a different forum that #3 'is external to the house. The third floor is up under the roof so the window is in a little dormer. It has to be set back from the exterior wall below.'
But I have to remove all that from the floor plan anyway, as it's long ago modelled and I'm not changing it. Shame, though. I like the way it'd look on the map in the game.
#4 You're not the first person to suggest that. I'm glad, as I had plans for bells there.
#5 is definitely a servant passage, especially for serving in the dining room. It says so in the book. But I originally labelled it to ask about the different ways of notating doors, which someone answered for me on the other forum.
Thanks for all the insight, lads.
There are a some individuals who are sometimes routine a--holes. Don't worry about that too much.
There are some folks with their own individual issues. Some individuals don't like non-architects. some don't care. I personally don't see your thread an issue at this point.
There are alot of people on this forum and when there are alot of people, there is bound to be alot of opinions. So don't worry about the arses that just likes to blow their blow-hole around to make themselves feel all better about themselves.
Just remember, no matter where you go, you'll find at least one a--hole as they are far from being endangered species.
I don't think your conduct is bad but sometimes the snarky ones needs a little back slap once in awhile.
I'll look forward to seeing when you get on the forum because if posting privileges are limited when you first join, I can direct you with information to resolve it. There is some things in place to keep spam bots from posting on the castAR forum.
EPD Gaffney,
The Victorians used ladles to transfer the hot/boiling water to other receptacles nearby as needed. Some of the large "coppers" had a spigot used to drain the bowl before cleaning.
Richard: Quite true. Just wanted to be sure I hadn't done any thing wrong myself.
I've signed up for an account on the Technical Illusions forum. I'm awaiting an administrator's decision or something similar. I probably won't post all that much so don't be going out of your way or any thing. I've looked into the price of the glasses as well and I think I'll need to wait a bit; they're rather expensive, at least for myself. For what they're capable of it's not so bad a price, but it's not in my budget just now.
Volunteer: I need to see an image as I'm having a bit of trouble visualising an external copper in a way that's not unnecessarily awkward to use. If the size of the opening on the floor plan is any indication, it'd be a tight fit. It'd be interesting to compare it to Peter's suggestion of a water tank, but I can't seem to find an image of that, either.
Send an email to: owen AT castar DOT com
Include your user name that you signed on with. This way, he'll be able to respond quicker.
No problem waiting a little bit in regards to castAR. If I know what your user name on the forum, I would be able to identify you on the forum.
Regarding a copper in the round room as Volunteer is talking about. It's simple, it was installed before a door was installed and possibly put in place before the walls were erected. For some reason, that round room (not the octagon room but the round room adjacent to the dairy scullery does not seem like a copper but possibly a well. It might be worth researching about the location where the building was proposed to be built such as whether it be a room used for a well or a cold storage room. There maybe several possibilities.
They actually rejected my membership on the forum. I'll have to e-mail owen, so. My name there is the same as it is here.
Sorry but I can't seem to find an image. Could someone please link me an image of any thing that could go in that round spot?
Oh, and I've e-mailed the UKNT if you recall. A few days ago. But no response as yet. It's possible they won't get to it for some time (or at-all) I imagine, so I'd rather not count on that.
Regarding the castAR forum, It'll get resolved. It probably some left over cron job by a previous forum administrator so it'll get worked out. After all, emailing them helps to indicate you are not a bot.
I'll follow up with Owen to see if he gets that worked out. If necessary, just resubscribe if necessary if Owen asks.
#1 is not copper, it's masonry of some kind, copper is thin wall construction, and as the poche demonstrates, it's substantially thicker. I think, and based on some of my "basic" googling skillz, I'm going with a cistern, or oven, but if you held a gun to my cranium, I'd pick cistern, due to the lack of chimney on the other levels.
http://1drv.ms/1Mzw3le
Hope this works. The copper bowl is set into a masonry foundation. There is no floor above the dairy scullery in the drawing.
Richard: Thanks a lot. I wasn't too worried over the 'rejection'. Actually I thought it was rather funny. I'll e-mail him probably to-morrow.
b3tadine: Haha, gas fella, you. Could you link me an image? I'm finding all sorts of different cisterns with different functions and don't know how to specify this one.
Volunteer: Thanks. Does that work with what b3tadine was saying (given the mention of masonry foundation)? or is this a separate suggestion?
Everyone: The UKNT have finally got back to me -- to tell me to wait fourteen days and if I don't hear from them they can't help. I can't say I fancy waiting a fortnight but I'm definitely interested in what they have to say.
It is just a large copper bowl with a wooden top set onto a masonry foundation. I don't know if the copper bowl could be easily removed for cleaning or was cleaned in place.
Owen got back with me, if you can email me your real name or email account name used, I will forward it to Owen no one else. He is just trying to sort through the spam entries.
I referred to your user name that you mentioned signing up under.
EPD Gaffney,
Try again subscribing to the forum. Send email to Owen with your user name, email and other information when you subscribe.
Thanks, Richard. I've resubscribed and e-mailed Owen.
So, new trouble with this floor plan: I don't know much about outbuildings. In general, what requirements am I looking at for modelling these outbuildings?
The kitchen is appropriately tall, and the dairy is slightly less tall. That's all I have so far.
The kitchen of Bignell House had, according to the book, 'the kitchen has an open roof, for light and ventilation.' What does that mean? What roof would be open enough for ventilation but stop rain coming in? (I've googled 'open roof' in various ways and I don't see any thing helpful.)
The Unreal Engine character is about 1.9m, and the ground floor of this manor is generally about 8, including the kitchen, and the dairy is about 5, not counting the rather high roof. I was thinking I'd make all the other outbuilding walls the same height as the dairy, and then roof them individually. Does that sound good?
Bear in mind, this probably sounds like a very large scale. But once it's all proportionate, when viewing it could be interpreted as 10% or 20% smaller.
I'm not asking anyone to do independent research, but if you have any thing to share I'll be grateful. Thanks.
As I was writing that last message, Owen got me in.
EPD Gaffney,
Did you look at the perspective rendering. You can roughly estimate the height of the main floor areas by things like the door which is typically about 7-ft. tall for a typical door and about 3 feet wide for a normal width exterior door.
It is not easy to determine the exact floor to ceiling height for each floor but you can approximate it based on scale ratio. Keep in mind that the drawings shown are not the actual construction documents provide one was ever made but they are schematic and leaves alot of room for interpretation and often plates from plan books do not contain sections and other details that would be found in an actual construction documents blueprints.
That is why it isn't easy because we don't have the actual building or a collection of photos from different views of the building let alone interior.
I've done most of the outbuildings now. From what I can tell, you can't go too tall, only too short, so I should be grand.
Most important question: What is meant by 'the kitchen has an open roof, for light and ventilation'? I thought an open roof just had no ceiling, but how could that help with light? Ventilation makes sense, but light I don't understand.
In Volunteer's link: http://1drv.ms/1Mzw3le
I see a copper that could be a similar construction to the round thing on my floor plan. Any idea of the size of this? It seems the thing on the map is a lot bigger, but perhaps it's not quite to scale.
EPD,
Is there a graphic scale on the plan. You can approximate it. There is no knowing exactly how it was without photos of the building which seems to be lacking.
There is a scale but it's extremely difficult to read. If my guess is correct this thing is about seven foot in diametre, which means my building is not to scale with the original but that's fine. What isn't fine is that if I am reading that scale right, this seems far too big to be a copper boiler. Perhaps I'll just shrink it and make it one.
But I really need to know about that 'open roof' in the kitchen if possible. Would it be more than simply exposed rafters and all that?
In those days, they didn't make rooms with no roofs. Open roof probably means open rafters... ie. no finished ceiling. Just rafters and ceiling joists not a finished ceiling with what was fairly popular in the period, decorative tin ceiling tile and similar such things.
Since the area was kind of utilitarian, the expense in fancy ceiling finishes was not needed.
Lets remember where this is, you wouldn't have such an area exposed to the elements for obvious reason.
That's what I was thinking. The one thing I find odd is he says 'for light and ventilation'. Ventilation makes sense, but how would an unfinished ceiling help with light?
There would certainly be ventilation in some form like the copper would vent its smoke out a chimney that would be above the roof line. With exceptions to skylights (not usually used in a utilitarian space and unlikely used in this case with high pitched roofs but however, there is known use of windows along the wall and allow windows to be placed up to higher points along the gable front.
On the other hand, if these roofs had overhang, they may have small eave vents of some kind.
Also, lets not forget that the windows were often single or double hung and otherwise opens up and allows ventilation. Also, an open roof would allow smoke to gather up higher. Another thing is what kind of roof material was used. It might be argued slate but it can also not be slate. It can be wood shakes. In wood shake roofing, you would have rafters and then you would have skip or spaced sheathing boards usually with about a couple inches of gap or so between the boards with 1"x6" boards being used. The rafters being about 2" x 6". This skip sheathing allows for the wood shingles to 'breathe' - the expansion and contraction of material due to moisture or temperature especially the evaporation of moisture. This also allows for ventilation given that there is a draft that would be created.
I replied to this hours ago but maybe I never clicked the post button.
I'd like to thank everyone that's helped me here. The manor and outbuildings are all finished and it's off to texturing now. If the UKNT ever respond to my query I'll post that information here. Cheers, lads.
The plans you have presented appear the wrong way around? I actually own a part of this plan The brew house is my kitchen and the coal house is my garage. Point 1 is on my land and the eight sided dairy belongs to my neighbour which actually still stands but as you probably know the house was demolished in the '50's and the only part to remain is a newer part built around 1892. It's difficult to know what was there except there is a soak away from the yard very near that spot which was used for water. It's like a storage tank and we have to pump out the water when it becomes too full. It had a broken Victorian pumping handle when I first bought the house. Great to see all the info. you have posted. Will post again if I can be more helpful on any of the points.
@EPD Gaffney
Re #1 - Apparently, preparation of dairy products required constant temperature throughout the year and also a lot of cleaning, therefore a lot of hot water. That corner unit could be a water cistern, boiler, or "copper", used for that purpose. They were mostly built in a corner, with masonry; that opening might be a simple access hatch, see here a pic of an average, 19th century "copper".
This book describes a dairy scullery starting on page 1160. Page 1161 also shows a plan with a scullery having a corner copper looking fairly similar to your plan.
You may want to watch parts of "Victorian Farm", a BBC documentary which recreates that atmosphere really well - they describe dairy products preparation. That is also a great show if you want to familiarise yourself with visual details of those days - clothing, furniture, tools, building interiors, which you can replicate in your project.
Block this user
Are you sure you want to block this user and hide all related comments throughout the site?
Archinect
This is your first comment on Archinect. Your comment will be visible once approved.