doing some heroin

what's also comforting is knowing that bush is getting rid
of everyone that disagrees with him.

so now without any dissenting opinions he can do
and say anything he wants without someone actually saying
anything... like "don't you think it's a bad idea to start another war?"
plus now he doesn't have to worry about being reelected...

at least condelisa sp? rice is qualified to be sec state...

err...how is condi qualified for anything?

yeah...that was sarcasm.

oh, like the heroin?

i dunno...do you do heroin?

but seriously i think condi is a super secret test robot...
that woman has no emotion...and her hair looks plastic
and i've never seen anyone poor water on her to test
whether or not she'd short-ciruit...

do you need another clue???

Iraq, Afghanistan, Palestine, Israel, Ivory Coast, N. Korea... the whole world is one big shit storm.

I just watch The Deer Hunter and Apocalypse Now every night so I'm steeled against all emotion.

condi kind of looks like she could be
a terminator in that picture...

and the deer hunter is one messed up movie...
the christopher walken scene for one.

and have you seen apocalypse now redux?...wow it just
adds to the overall kicked in the stomach feeling i get from
watching that movie...

or maybe she's a decepticon...

a replicant

here in southern california I've been seeing a lot of bush campaign stickers on cars... and our state gave kerry our votes! i want to kill these people!!!!!!

i watched trainspotting and requiem for a dream back to back on ifc last night. haven't started doing heroin yet but one more election like this one could send me over the edge.

Hmm, here in MN I've noticed many people haven't taken the Kerry stickers off their cars. The election is over folks. Just take down the signs and bumper stickers and get back to the good messages...

IF YOU DONT LIKE MY DRIVING CALL 1-800-EAT-SHIT.

did anyone see janet jackson do, well not literally, condi rice? her appearance was post super bowl fall out, and she did a great job. had the gap in between the teeth and all.

i've donated money to blackboxvoting.org to help me sleep at night;
if that doesn't do it i'll have to volunteer with them.

i know bushies don't give a rat's ass about history so i found this quote from Samuel Adams that much more hopeful.

"If you love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen"

re-@rte :

the shit-storm is just starting. Iraq is just a precursor to major uprisings in the terrorism problem. When the peace weilding dutch and swiss are now forced to deal with major fundamentalist issues, you know we can't ignore the problems anymore, or hope they go away.
I have a harder problem going to sleep at night knowing that 10 fundamentalist can take out 3,000 innocent people in a matter of hours using public transportation, than i do about trying to expel foreign terrorists from a people who just want a country....but then again when you see the results of terrorism and fundamentalism firsthand (living right by WTC and losing several friends) you understand the importance of the fight a little more.... just a thought ...

0+

i'm confused...are you attempting to justify our being in iraq?
there's been no connection between iraq and the world trade center....

and i lost a couple people i knew there as well.
how many innocent people have died in iraq?

and are you saying terrorists are defending iraq?...would
you then be a terrorist if you were defending the country?
i would say that you'd most likely stand up and fight if a
foreign country attacked new york...or the u.s. although,
there may be some that have travelled over the borders
to fight the u.s...i think the larger number are men defending
their homeland against what they see as a foreign occupier

just looking for a little clarification...

larslarson,
do you live in a vacuum? there most certainly is a connection between iraq and terrorists, it's all starting to come out now, saddam paid millions to terrorists, which last time i checked, blow things and people up.
the insurgents in Iraq now are predominantly not-iraqi born terrorists, who are not defending their country, they're fighting for their barbaric fundamentalism, led by zarqawi and his followers, who you may have heard, are also not Iraqi....
a lot of innocent people died in germany too during the holocaust, but most people, maybe not you, would agree that it was better to get rid of these genocidal maniacs then let them keep proliferating their nazi fundamentalism.
you can sweep only so much under the rug before you actually have to deal with the dirt instead of passively think it doesn't exist....

is the current situation ideal? no. it's terrible, but the only option left. how many innocent people have to get killed by terrorists before it's 'ok' to take action?
i'm really interested to hear your solution to the worlds growing problem...

Based on your argument "larslarson", then. What was the justifiable reason for the two attackes on the World Trade Center, along with the many terrorist bombing attacks that have taken place and are still taking place within other countries. as well as other Moslim nations.These attacks take innocent lives, at each occurance. Where is your outrage then.

angela davis.
here is a prof. who can do some good.

and one more

http://www.qkw.com/jon/assets/CornelWest.jpg

um... even bush recognized that iraq was after all not responsible for the wtc bombing.

http://iraqbodycount.net/

another source;

Counting the human cost

Total war dead (Iraq)

Between 10,800 and 15,100, with a midpoint of 12,950

Combatants killed (Iraq)

Between 7,600 and 10,800, with a midpoint of 9,200

Noncombatants killed (Iraq)

Between 3,200 and 4,300, with a midpoint of 3,750

War dead (Baghdad)

Between 4,376 and 5,726, with a midpoint of 5,051

Combatants killed (Baghdad)

Between 2,224 and 3,531, with a midpoint of 2,878

Noncombatants killed (Baghdad)

Between 1,990 and 2,357, with a midpoint of 2,174

· Source: Project on Defense Alternatives research
www.comw.org/pda

undoubtedly making the world a safer place. [sarcasm, since we're pointing]

larslarson, Thanks for your comment !!! agree with you at all

o+ and organic9, kids, you need to get out of the bubble!!!
please read more and don't believe all that the news want you to believe!!! this is the information generation, I'm sure if you surf in internet you will find other answers...

fox news rules.

I don't trust anyone anymore. I'm going to stop reading anything. I believe it's all much worse than anyone will tell us. (Melodramatic enough, yet?)

I'm so disillusioned today. I saw that Clinton made a comment in his library opening today that he was sad to see the country so divided and that he actually liked BOTH candidates!

What the hell is going on? Has our whole country gone crazy? If the Bush Administration has been spreading some kind of delusion gas, I want mine, dammit, 'cause I can't stand watching this mass hallucination that's been going on while I'm still possessed of all my critical faculties. Give me my stupid gas! Let Gretchen Wilson sing 'Redneck Girl' to me until I think it's the best our culture can offer! Help me forget grammar and vocabulary! I wanna be the next president!

mm...um...ok....thank you.

haha re-@rte,

yeah, the internet is full of 'facts'...haha..lmao....
.. what bubble would that be, reality?

unfortunately the answers aren't in line with your flower power solutions....wish they were that simplistic.

Besides, the Bush Administration doesn't believe in facts anyway.

Science, they have admitted, offers a series of optional realities so that they can pick which they prefer to use as a basis for policy. The best science seems to come from the biggest contributors.

Intelligence is even more easily manipulated. Under what circumstances would most American accept a war of aggression? Wellll, that's just what we've got some information about! How 'bout that? Let's Roll!

Creating their own reality since 2000.

the army is killing everybody around, destroying houses, buildings, cities… "For all of us so we can be calmed, knowing that everything will be all right, we will have a job, a family, a quiet future in this nation"

isn't this a simplistic thought?

my friend o+,
I think believing that we are "the good guys" fighting "the evil terrorism" is more than naive: is living in a fairy tale...

naive indeed. our government has supported enough monsters in the past >> saddam and pinochet of note. while not doing a thing in africa where many, many more people are being killed, slaughtered, and raped.

...simplistic thoughts are wrought by those that ignored fundamentalism throughout the 90's so blindly that it festered into a disease so powerful that it is destroying buildings, communities and families around the world in an ever increasing and disturbing fashion.... your outrage is great, just misplaced.
you think we can reason with the terrorists? that if we leave Iraq, by some magic goodness in their hearts they'll stop killing innocent people around the globe? or that if we never were in Iraq that it would have appeased the terrrorists?
you misguidedly equate the unfortunate consequences of an army fighting for the iraqi people with actions belonging to terrorists?

well the 'good' guys fighting the 'bad' guys worked in wwII, but that must have been a fairy tale too? what kind of world do you guys think you live in?

e,
oh, so it's now wrong to kill ,slaughter and rape in Africa and we should do something about it, but the same exact things were happening in Iraq and it was wrong to do something about it?

naive indeed.

its time for mass revolution

come on o+, of course it's not. i'm just making the point that i think the bushies and all other past administrations have failed to doing anything in africa. many, many more people are dying and being murdered than anywhere else in the world, probably more than the rest of the world combinded, and yet we fail to do anything about it.

in some instances, our current and past administrations have also supported terrorists and dictators [pinochet and saddam] under the guise of spreading peace.

nothing more fundamentalist than bush's foreign policy....
Bush and the genocide in Irak couldn't be more similar to hitler...
Besides, obviously the war in Irak is about the oil and everybody knows that.

..agreed.

it would be nice if there was some sort of united, oh i don't know, nations, yeah, some sort of united nations body that wasn't so corrupt and inefficient as to be completely ineffective at dealing with international needs and crisis......

holy crap fiona!

i can't believe you just said that! not because i'm jewish and it is incredibly rascist and offensive, but because it is complete crap.

wow.

If the United Nations is to be effective, its members must stay committed to it. It is a body that acts through consensus. Impatience (in an instance of no imminent threat, remember) and abandonment of the UN because of disagreement and debate is exactly how one might go about undermining the UN's value.

o+, you totally misunderstood what I said, and I am not a racist at all.
I was just saying that I am so sorry about what happened in the holocaust as I am about the thousands of iraquis and american soldiers that have been killed.
I can't believe how you can justify that.

well....
when the UN's member states are actually in it for the oil (read france) and all the monetary kickbacks now being shed light on, 'commitment' starts to become a very tenuous subject, as does 'value'......how can you rely on a comprimised body to make judgements?

yes, when people are in it actually for the oil things get a little blurry...

that is so funny.

everybody else:

just come to south america. we're poor as hell, and the bush administration is bribing us with free residence papers if we go fight the oil war, but at least nobody will bother attacking us.

and oil, or lack of it, is why no one gives a shit about africa either. sad.

I'm not sure about that, e...
http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=2576

o+
i'll try not to respond in kind to your arguments against me...
i'm not sure it's useful arguing with you...especially when you
claim that i would have ignored the holocaust...you arrogant
prick. but now that we've got that out of the way...i'd like to
attempt a serious conversation.

i think you missed my point entirely..if you did indeed read my
post.

i'm not saying iraq was not a 'problem'...what saddam was doing
there was obviously attrocious. however, our justification was 9/11
which i think was a false premise and was used for the obvious
hysteria and patriotism that it created. terrorism is a problem...
and ignoring would be foolish. i, however, believe we attempted to
attack those who attacked us in afghanistan and then became
unfocused and moved onto iraq.

on those fighting us in iraq. i agree that their are obviously others
fighting against the 'coalition' than iraqis. part of this being our fault
for not protecting the borders...which it may have been impossible to
do..but we did at least not restrict population flow to some of the more
violent cities. i do think, though, that the news and the government
like to attach one name, one face etc. to every problem. it restricts
the problem and makes it more tangible. and i think it oversimplifies.

on the basic question of terrorism and also iraq:
rwanda, serbia, somalia, north korea, iran (both of whom actually
admit to having nuclear weapons), sudan..etc. countries who had
equal or worse atrocities committed in their lands, but were equally
as ignored. why haven't we toppled other dictators? why haven't
we attacked other regimes?

terrorism exists all over the world...wherever there is idealism,
fanatacism, etc...it will exist...within our own borders for instance.
by attacking iraq are we truly limiting terrorism? camps move,
supporters wire money..etc. by attacking iraq we've attacked a
nation...not terror...we've most likely increased the number of
terrorists and potential terrorists...how many orphaned children
are going to grow up and appreciate what we've done for them
or to them? we've basically created a time bomb that will grow
older and become angrier as years pass.

i understand your points in some ways, i just fail to see how we're
creating a solution..i think what we're doing is continuing the
problem and enforcing stereotypes of us as warmongers and 'the west'
the way to protect against terrorism is to protect our borders, create
situations to gather good intelligence and to seek out and destroy
covertly or from within...that's my opinion...you obviously disagree.

and organic

i don't believe i ever claimed there was a reason for the wtc
bombing and eventual destruction...let alone a justifiable one...

i never claimed that terrorism is ever fundamentally right...

i do think though that breaking arguments down to 'good' and 'evil'
makes us more like them than we'd like to believe.

nuanced understanding is required to solve complicated solutions.
attempting to slam square pegs into round holes is not the
answer.

however, in looking for reasons my only guess is that poorer countries
see us as being a country that wastes more natural resources than
they could even dream of purchasing let alone producing or using...
they could see us as a country that has different idealogical beliefs
and structures than they can understand...they could be taught from
a young age to hate us for what we represent...

who knows. i love this country and it's been the only one i want to
live in other than that of mother and father..but i don't blindly
believe in everything it does and appreciate the freedom i have to
express such beliefs that sometimes we're not in the right.