"Allen + Killcoyne Architects is an award winning, design oriented architectural firm of approximately fifteen people. We have a diverse range of projects that include retail, corporate interiors, residential, gyms and institutional work. The firm offers a full health plan and a 401K savings plan.
The candidates must have strong design and graphic skills. Computer literacy is important and must include AutoCad. Additional useful skills would be with Illustrator, Photoshop and 3D Studio Max/Viz. The candidate must be self motivated, enjoy working with others and have a sense of humor.
Please send or e-mail your resume, work samples and salary requirements"
I thought the salary is discussed during the interview or even in the 2nd interview!
How the eff am I supposed to give them my salary requirement if I don't know what the eff the level of work is or what my job responsibilities are?? I guess they are looking for people with no experience so the salary is the "starter salary"? I don't get it.My preference would be to completely skip the salary part in cover letter or just say "negotiable" but that may cause them to delete my email.
just do some research on average salaries for the job and adjust that with your previous salary (if applicable) and put something down. i think it's okay to give a range and then say you're flexible based on their salary structure or job requirements or something like that.
typically if the employer asks for a list of things in the cover letter you better clearly address those items. it's the first step showing you can follow directions from da MAN!
I'm also confused about the job vs internship thing.Honestly I've never heard of an employer asking for salary requirements for an internship position.Should I slightly lower the salary requirement since this is an internship?
Just ignore that part Unless that firm is led by a bunch of retards, they know how the drill goes too.
If you impress them with your work and resume, then they will ask you about your salary requirements in person or by phone which is the way it should be in the first place -- you discuss things like that in person. If they want to pursue you, they will pursue you.
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
I'm seeing this a lot lately. I see as being similar to graduate school applications that request GRE and GPA... it's an easy rubric to weed-out candidates. The office already knows what they are willing to pay. They can tell the over-worked receptionist/office manager to go through all the applications and throw out any and all cover letters that either exceed the threshold or do not list a number, probably without reviewing the work samples or resumes whatsoever. The remaining applications can then be arranged, cheapest first, so that the office principals/hiring people can work their way up, hopefully finding someone that is sufficient enough to do the job while still being under what they were willing to pay.
All in all, it's a bad move on the part of the office. Salary questions too soon in the interview (or in this case BEFORE an interview) demonstrate the office is only concerned about money. I would be concerned about working for an office like this. Expect to not be valued as an employee or a person.
It's not that strange, if you consider an architectural office as a business. It's not about finding the cheapest person out there, but about matching expectations: if a candidate for the job is asking double of what they had in their minds (which could be based on a bias from either of the two, of course) it's wasting both of their times to do interviews with that person: supply and demand are never going to match. But if it's within a decent range, it's worth further elaborating in an interview.
And definitely: it's not a final offer you're giving, it's just a rough indication of what you think you are worth or what you want to get...
I maintain that putting salary first makes the focus of your relationship with the employer strictly about money, when the first point of discussion should be more about the applicant and the office. It's like going on a first date and immediately asking the other persons debt and income. Yes, that might be an important discussion to have at some point, but certainly not right after "Hi, I'm Cherith."
I feel like offices should be able to able to gauge an employees estimated salary requirements just based on the resume and work samples (if they sent any). Clearly someone with 15 years of experience applying for an internship position is not really the appropriate candidate and is probably only taking this position to weather out the economy.
Frankly it's damn near impossible to gauge what any office is willing or capable of paying any more. Salary information online is now all irrelevant; for people moving to new cities for positions it's a totally crapshot figuring out how to value yourself in an unfamiliar market. Adjustments for cost-of-living seems to be a concept most architecture firms simply do not understand.
I find the whole cat-and-mouse game offices make applicants play regarding salary to be extremely annoying. I contend that if offices were really more concerned about "matching expectations" they would include a salary range with the job advertisement. That would easily eliminate all of the applicants that are unwilling to work within that range (for whatever reason).
I don't understand the problem...you're going to have to lay your cards on the table at some point, whether it's in the interview or in your cover letter.
Just do your research, and put down what you're worth. If you're worried that, if you put down too high a number, they won't call you...you're right, they won't.
For better or worse, it's called the free market, and its a buyer's market right now.
I don't ask for salary req's in the letter, but when I interview someone, at the end of the interview, I ask their salary req's. If their numbers too high (not a little to high, but TOO HIGH), I thank them for their time, and a few days later call them to say thanks for coming in but we won't be hiring them.
By putting it in the cover letter, you're just saving the time of traveling to/from the office you're interviewing at, and the time of the interview too. If you're salary req is 10 or 10% too high, but they like your resume and portfolio, they'll have you in and you'll negotiate. If you're asking 50% over what they're looking to pay, whether in the interview or in a letter, the conversation's over.
"I find the whole cat-and-mouse game offices make applicants play regarding salary to be extremely annoying."
What goes 'round comes 'round. As recently as the summer of 2008 this shoe was on the other foot. Candidates routinely would whipsaw employers on compensation, often not even agreeing to an interview before the employer laid out the compensation parameters.
If you don't want to declare your salary expectations this early in the process just explain your logic in your response. Any employer unable to deal with that probably isn't an employer you want on your resume anyway.
dcblock - your optimism is only a little misplaced. i'm the person they hired a few months ago, and while i have been "working out," i am leaving the office in a couple of months - which they knew when they hired me, and may well be the thing that got me the job since at the time they were looking for someone temporary.
that said, i didn't give them any salary requirements when i applied. we discussed compensation some in my interview, and they had a definite (but fairly reasonable) idea of what they were expecting to pay. it was all pretty straightforward.
Salary Requirements in cover letter?!
"Allen + Killcoyne Architects is an award winning, design oriented architectural firm of approximately fifteen people. We have a diverse range of projects that include retail, corporate interiors, residential, gyms and institutional work. The firm offers a full health plan and a 401K savings plan.
The candidates must have strong design and graphic skills. Computer literacy is important and must include AutoCad. Additional useful skills would be with Illustrator, Photoshop and 3D Studio Max/Viz. The candidate must be self motivated, enjoy working with others and have a sense of humor.
Please send or e-mail your resume, work samples and salary requirements"
I thought the salary is discussed during the interview or even in the 2nd interview!
How the eff am I supposed to give them my salary requirement if I don't know what the eff the level of work is or what my job responsibilities are?? I guess they are looking for people with no experience so the salary is the "starter salary"? I don't get it.My preference would be to completely skip the salary part in cover letter or just say "negotiable" but that may cause them to delete my email.
just do some research on average salaries for the job and adjust that with your previous salary (if applicable) and put something down. i think it's okay to give a range and then say you're flexible based on their salary structure or job requirements or something like that.
typically if the employer asks for a list of things in the cover letter you better clearly address those items. it's the first step showing you can follow directions from da MAN!
I'm also confused about the job vs internship thing.Honestly I've never heard of an employer asking for salary requirements for an internship position.Should I slightly lower the salary requirement since this is an internship?
Just ignore that part Unless that firm is led by a bunch of retards, they know how the drill goes too.
If you impress them with your work and resume, then they will ask you about your salary requirements in person or by phone which is the way it should be in the first place -- you discuss things like that in person. If they want to pursue you, they will pursue you.
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
lol thats the trick question. The answer is 0. If you give them another variable they will turn you down. Seriously though it is pretty common for firms to ask for the salary demands in the cover letter. I have done it countless times when asked. The firm doesn't want to waste their time and resources by interviewing someone who will ask for more than they want to give. I always see it as a warning sign that the firm is looking for the lowest cost alternative.
On a side note- I applied to this firm several months ago when they advertised last time. It does soften the rejection blow since whoever they hired probably didn't work out. (A little bit of optimism in this climate)...
oops my bad. It gliched and I dont know how to edit it.
I'm seeing this a lot lately. I see as being similar to graduate school applications that request GRE and GPA... it's an easy rubric to weed-out candidates. The office already knows what they are willing to pay. They can tell the over-worked receptionist/office manager to go through all the applications and throw out any and all cover letters that either exceed the threshold or do not list a number, probably without reviewing the work samples or resumes whatsoever. The remaining applications can then be arranged, cheapest first, so that the office principals/hiring people can work their way up, hopefully finding someone that is sufficient enough to do the job while still being under what they were willing to pay.
All in all, it's a bad move on the part of the office. Salary questions too soon in the interview (or in this case BEFORE an interview) demonstrate the office is only concerned about money. I would be concerned about working for an office like this. Expect to not be valued as an employee or a person.
one hundred million dollars!
it asks for a sense of humour - go with DonQ.'s requirement, and ammend:
one hundred million dollars (negotiable)
It's not that strange, if you consider an architectural office as a business. It's not about finding the cheapest person out there, but about matching expectations: if a candidate for the job is asking double of what they had in their minds (which could be based on a bias from either of the two, of course) it's wasting both of their times to do interviews with that person: supply and demand are never going to match. But if it's within a decent range, it's worth further elaborating in an interview.
And definitely: it's not a final offer you're giving, it's just a rough indication of what you think you are worth or what you want to get...
I maintain that putting salary first makes the focus of your relationship with the employer strictly about money, when the first point of discussion should be more about the applicant and the office. It's like going on a first date and immediately asking the other persons debt and income. Yes, that might be an important discussion to have at some point, but certainly not right after "Hi, I'm Cherith."
I feel like offices should be able to able to gauge an employees estimated salary requirements just based on the resume and work samples (if they sent any). Clearly someone with 15 years of experience applying for an internship position is not really the appropriate candidate and is probably only taking this position to weather out the economy.
Frankly it's damn near impossible to gauge what any office is willing or capable of paying any more. Salary information online is now all irrelevant; for people moving to new cities for positions it's a totally crapshot figuring out how to value yourself in an unfamiliar market. Adjustments for cost-of-living seems to be a concept most architecture firms simply do not understand.
I find the whole cat-and-mouse game offices make applicants play regarding salary to be extremely annoying. I contend that if offices were really more concerned about "matching expectations" they would include a salary range with the job advertisement. That would easily eliminate all of the applicants that are unwilling to work within that range (for whatever reason).
I don't understand the problem...you're going to have to lay your cards on the table at some point, whether it's in the interview or in your cover letter.
Just do your research, and put down what you're worth. If you're worried that, if you put down too high a number, they won't call you...you're right, they won't.
For better or worse, it's called the free market, and its a buyer's market right now.
I don't ask for salary req's in the letter, but when I interview someone, at the end of the interview, I ask their salary req's. If their numbers too high (not a little to high, but TOO HIGH), I thank them for their time, and a few days later call them to say thanks for coming in but we won't be hiring them.
By putting it in the cover letter, you're just saving the time of traveling to/from the office you're interviewing at, and the time of the interview too. If you're salary req is 10 or 10% too high, but they like your resume and portfolio, they'll have you in and you'll negotiate. If you're asking 50% over what they're looking to pay, whether in the interview or in a letter, the conversation's over.
What goes 'round comes 'round. As recently as the summer of 2008 this shoe was on the other foot. Candidates routinely would whipsaw employers on compensation, often not even agreeing to an interview before the employer laid out the compensation parameters.
If you don't want to declare your salary expectations this early in the process just explain your logic in your response. Any employer unable to deal with that probably isn't an employer you want on your resume anyway.
dcblock - your optimism is only a little misplaced. i'm the person they hired a few months ago, and while i have been "working out," i am leaving the office in a couple of months - which they knew when they hired me, and may well be the thing that got me the job since at the time they were looking for someone temporary.
that said, i didn't give them any salary requirements when i applied. we discussed compensation some in my interview, and they had a definite (but fairly reasonable) idea of what they were expecting to pay. it was all pretty straightforward.
so... snarkitekt, how much do they want to pay?
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