i don't get it... design fees? it's a competition - you designed it already...

can you get a copy of RS Means?

we wouldn't expect to be paid for our schematic design submission (the initial competition entry). However, if we were fortunate enough to actually be selected, we would take the project through DD, CD, and CA. Our incurred costs would need to be covered (we're broke!)...everything from printing to travel and accommodations (the site is across the country). With so little experience, it's difficult to even determine how many trips the project would require.

I've never used RS Means- but I'll see if I have access through work. It seems to be a lofty endeavor with our submission being such a schematic proposal (there's a round 2 of DD in the competition).

$46 k is not much...

I don't know what kind of materials you are using and how intricate is the method etc, but cost of labor can start from many different points. Example, if you have a foundation, a fabrication process starting somewhere else or not, etc. Think how long it takes (man hours) to build it per square or cubic feet of whatever it is and go from there. If you have access to software will be much faster. Reserve at least few days of your week for that.

For a ballpark budget an experienced contractor can give a shot at you drawings and an idea per square feet.

If the total budget = $46,000 you might be lucky to set $4,000 aside for the design fee. Travel across the country alone will eat that up. Then there is a DD round of the competition, all for a $46,000 pavilion???
I'd step back a little and consider if this whole endeavor is just a complete waste of time. It seems like a bunch of BS for a pretty small project.
Who in the hell has a multi-phase competition for a $46,000 pavilion?

We've paid the entrance fee, so we're entering. I realize the competition is severely flawed, but we really liked the prompt and thought the process of designing and submitting would be good experience. It's run by an AIA chapter... so your critique is broader than this one competition. I'd prefer this thread not turn into the typical "architecture sucks" archinect thread. My personal reasons for entering are, to be honest, because I'm suffocating in my current "design" position and I really needed something creative to focus on.

So, I'l be submitting something.
I absolutely realize it's very little money. But we're also not talking about Zaha in Millennium Park or SANAA in Hyde Park. Likewise, I know that the likelihood of us winning is slim- so this is much more about the process.

I was hoping for some professional and experienced direction. I see I can do a free trial of RS Means, so I think i'll be tackling it that way.

Total + -(design fee) = [Materials + [(Cost of Materials = labor) + (Cost of Materials total*Difficulty Factor))] * (Cost overrun = 10%)

So, if materials run you 18,000 and you're using something complicated like a proprietary paneling system... it'd look something like this:

(46,000) + -(x) = [18,000 + (18,000 * 1.25)] * 1.10
(46,000) + -(x) = [18,000 + (22,500)] * 1.10
(46,000) + -(x) = [40,500] * 1.10
(46,000) + -(x) = 44550
46,000 - 44,550 = x
x = 1,450 = design fee

1,450 + Prize (if any) = Office budget total
Office budget total - (hours worked * billing rate) - (overhead) = profit

Of course, I have no idea what I am talking about.

I think for costs of materials and labour, you can get a gross figure by getting an estimate by determinating an approximate cost per sqm. This can either be done by reference projects from yourself, friends or collegues, or by asking a friendly contractor.

As far as the design fees: does that also include the fee of (structural/mechanical) engineers? If so: this could be a tricky part, for such a small project...

thank you both for your help- i think that's good direction.
especially since, with so little design development, i think the budget will be pretty vague. my assumption is that they are asking for a budget so we don't propose some crazy and unrealistic design that would waste everyone's time.

thanks again for the help.

I think small budgets make the challenge more exciting some times. But realistically you can build something of the size of a living room and exhaust this budget easily.

Good look with the project!

Where I live 46 grand will get you a basic 400 sq. foot garage. nothing fancy, basic stud construction, conc. slab, and home depot grade siding.
This is for a fairly expensive metropolitan area. If you are building in the south or midwest, it could be a bit less I suppose.

This gives you a benchmark. Not to say you can't do something more interesting. My only advice would be to keep the structure and detailing as simple as possible.

"design fees"? maybe 1k. The more design fee, the less you have for nice materials. Forget about consultants, unless you have a structural engineer friend that is willing to do some review after business hours.

thats cost of a fairly nice kitchen here. just the kitchen and nothing else, mind you.

we do estimates based on experience for local work. we know what a concrete building or wood building costs per square meter. for overseas projects we use our judgement. for large project hire quantity surveyor.

for your project it sounds like no real budget so you will have to rely on your judgement and submit a project with costs that seem reasonable to you and then adjust if you win. i wouldn't frankly be too concerned over it.

if you have a friend in the area, give them a call.

good luck!

i headed a competition for a pavilion several years ago. for ours the target budget was $10,000. the entrants took a stab at budgeting it, but we didn't really hold them responsible for being right, as long as they made a good effort.

because it was a temporary pavilion, plumbing, heat/air, and power were not really relevant. we did some temporary lighting that was not integral to the design.

we did get the winning entrant built for the $10,000, but with multiple compromises. we got the local chapter of associated builders and contractors (ABC) to donate labor, got sponsors for lumber and hardware, and did a lot of creative problem-solving. the results were, i'd say, 85% successful, with a few disappointments.

see for yourself: http://www.flickr.com/photos/archintentlouisville/sets/72157603873485873/with/2250046543/

best advice i can give is that, if there are places you see creative (i.e., cheap/free) material solutions could work, suggest them as part of your entry.