I've only spent a brief time in St. Louis. I now tend to think of it in the same breath as Detroit. What happened there? How does a once-great city suffer such a horrible death?

I'd go with Chicago, if given a chance. Your dollar will be worth 4x as much in St. Louis though...

As far as HOK v. SOM goes, I think you will learn more at SOM. You will also need conflict resolution skills to work at SOM. For some reason that place is overrun with confrontationists these days...

Just on the question of which job to take, given the nature of today's economy, and how many people in the profession are out of work...

Uh, who cares? Just fucking pick one dude.

"Hey, homeless person, what do you think I should have for dinner tonight, steak or lobster?"

Don't make me buy you one of these tshirts.

Not nice Milwaukee. It's always nice to hear stories of hope (of economic recovery). Just because the profession is in the toilet, doesn't mean you should be grateful of any opportunity to be exploited.

You should make an informed decision on the level of exploitation you're about to embark on!

I'm curious how the op got said interviews - through a connection - or just sending their cv and portfolio in as I've not seen any advertised entry level positions at either of the firms in question for quite some time.

I stand by my original statement.

I'm fine with asking about interview preparations, what to wear, what to bring, what to ask, whatever.

But I still say asking "should I have steak or lobster for dinner" when you know a lot of homeless people can hear you is tasteless and inconsiderate, and sound like just plain 'ol bragging.

Though, for the record, I went to HOK's and SOM's sites to check what was available.

HOK - St. Louis

Corporate Human Resources Manager
US-MO-St. Louis
Requisition ID: 02227
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Administrative Assistant - Corporate Legal
US-MO-St. Louis
Requisition ID: 02234
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|Add to My Job Cart

SOM - Chicago

Nothing

yeah, firms are going to post jobs on their websites. O_o

SOM's career page has been broken for some time now. I have seen them post jobs in unusual places though. Recently on csinet.org.

As far as the original poster goes, judging by previous posts, you are dealing with a recent mArch grad who's originally from Korea.

Get it?

Both HOK and SOM are doing a bunch of crap over there and speaking Korean is on neither of our resumes Milwuakee.

Surely you must have recently read through a long job description that you were qualified for only to come to the last listed requirement: Must be fluent in Mandarin. Aghhhhh!!

The invasion will not be televised :)

The last time I worked at a Michigan Ave. address Arch office there were only a handful of people that were from Chicago or its surrounding suburbs, what does that mean? I have no idea.

@steeldudes, S. Korea has a really dangerous real estate bubble. I bet it will burst pretty soon.

That's not China where you have 1 trillion people who will always be able to occupy those houses and offices at some point.

Basically you have 40-50 million people with a (more or less) good standard of living, zero inmigration and very low birth rate. And they are building like there's no end.

Does it seem familiar to anyone? (Dubai, Florida, Ireland?)

Florida had a decent growth rate for a while! But when a lot of people move to your state, they have to come from somewhere. And when other states start emptying out, problems are caused.

And Florida's birth rate is OK. But the kind of people who are born in Florida are not the kinds of people buying high-end real estate (UNFAIR PROFILING).

In fact, Florida is a bit of an architectural black hole.

In that sense, I think you could make a broad comparison to other places in that Florida typically doesn't build functional or really quality environments-- mostly functional does not really count.

That's where Florida's real estate bubble really defines itself is that many builders were building definitely above average homes in neighborhoods (even if gated or single entrance-exit) with decent infrastructure (sidewalks, common areas, lakes, fountains, stormwater).

And with the except for 1890-1920 homes and post-war homes, the majority of houses in Florida are god awful.

Are the homes worth 300k? No. Maybe closer to $180-220. But when you compare the McMansion and its neighborhood to a typical Floridian neighborhood... people will go broke trying to afford the McMansion.



Off topic but this related back to the question posed--

If the jobs aren't very different, your choice comes down to where you actually want to live. St. Louis maybe cheaper but you get what you pay for.

I'd lean towards SOM-- those jerks run a smooth hate-filled machine.

Wait, HUMAN RESOURCES.

Definitely. If you're a sociopath.

You get to read resumes all day, laugh at portfolios and manipulate people at every corner.

It's very encouraging to know that SOM Chicago and HOK St. Louis are at least interviewing people.

Last I heard SOM Chicago was hurting pretty badly -- there were also a lot of incorrect rumors that their Michigan Ave office was shuttered. I knew that wasnt true...

Both of those firms are solid and will look solid on your resume. SOM is a little more task-oriented with its staff. In other words you might only be hired there for one project and then let go. HOK is a little better where they hire their employees for the long haul (or at least try to).

SOM also pays better than HOK -- so if that is a big concern for you, you can use that to dictate your decision. However, HOK it would seem tends to cater better in terms of empowering the younger generation. They have always been a competitior of SOM but they have fashioned their business model completely different along with a changing business/professional environment.

Just some things to think about....

thanks med. for that positive contribution

HOK? SOM? what does it matter? y'all will be working at aecom by yaer-end when they buy both of 'em ;-)

SOM and Chicago hands down. The Chicago office in Burnham's old Railway Exchange building only begins to get at the rich architectural history that will surround you.

SOM

I worked at SOM San Francisco from 2007 to 2008 - consider it post grad school - But then again, having also visited HOK - It really comes down to what you like SOM. If you haven't worked at either one, I would pick SOM, they have a great internal education program - so does HOK - I think SOM has more varied projects -some are bit over the top - but it's good to stretch - also at SOM be prepared for long hours - It's fun though

HOK = chinatown

SOM = korean town

My friend worked at both, but in NY, thats where I got that info from.

Both are corporate, which means you are going to be "billable number" over there, so if you go over the budget, your number will be terminated...

A job is a job....but SOM Chicago is a very dicey place to be right now.

Though there is more work now than last year at this time, morale in this office has never been lower. Several partners have recently left the firm, and with the recent demotion of all non-equity partners to director level, several more - including two of the three design partners- may be actively looking to move on. The work going on also leaves much to be desired...SF and NY much more talent at the top and mid-levels, and get the best opportunities.

Milwaukee, Steelstuds etc, what the fuck? Someone is trying to share a positive experience here, and all you can do is put them down?

Who cares where they are from - Korea, China whatever. At least you are getting unemployment. Or I hope you are.