My impression is that recent grad.s have a hard time in Toronto- and Canada generally. Didn't the OAA survey show the average age of an intern to be something ridiculous like 35 or more? In Ontario its a slow moving, not terribly healthy field.
Find out what your contemporaries are doing to get work, my impression is that many firms in Toronto would be happier to take a community college tech. grad., than an architect, that's just how they are - and it shows! Maybe try edges Missisauga or further.

Or, you could show that you are a competent individual with an M.Arch thesis that is relevant to the way architecture is turning (a.k.a conservation of and sustainability of architecture).

Well, you know I don't think I would hire a recent grad. for sustainability knowledge, because they tend not to have enough
construction experience to really do that, but certainly a more active approach to researching and finding/making projects as well as computer skills of all kinds, even social networking for example, is attractive.

Hi Elisabeth, thanks for responding. I am getting a little bit discouraged right now looking for work but I am trying to stay positive. I actually have had an interview in Toronto and a couple in the GTA. The interview in Toronto was gotten through a connection and they were very nice and took the time to go through my portfolio and give me suggestions, but they just were not hiring at the time. They said that things in their office were a bit slow, but that they may be getting some projects in Asia soon so they would let me know if anything opens up.

Two of my other interviews were in Mississauga and Ajax. At the Mississauga interview the firm was definitely looking for someone who had a lot of technical training. They said they usually hired people from school who did co-ops at their office because then they knew they could handle the position. Unfortunately I went to school in Toronto and not Waterloo or the colleges that offer co-op so I was out of luck. That interview was really eye-opening because they seemed to sort of expect a lot from their interns coming right in. Is that generally the way it works? Do you have to know how to do construction drawings and sets before internship? How can I get this experience? Is there anywhere I can read up on this or books I can study to learn more? I thought I would be able to learn a little bit on the job, but maybe that's not the case?

What would happen if you went to a school that did not focus as much on the technical side of things like how to put together construction drawings and how everything in a building goes together? The interview in Ajax had this problem. The interviewer came right out and told me that the problem they have had with past interns was that they could make great visuals but they basically were not good for too much else. I thought they were being jerks at the time, but perhaps there is some truth in that as well.

How can I fix this problem? Should I take courses in college? I am already taking Revit classes but they are really expensive and I don't know how many more classes I can take without having a job without breaking the bank. I'm already into my saving and getting a bit panicky. Where do I learn the skills I need to get a job in this profession?

Voltaire, I think that is a good suggestion, but perhaps a bit late now for me. I just don't know where else to look. I have tried to get in contact with the OAA and I think in Toronto they have their own architectural association so I am trying to find out if they have any ways to connect graduates to employers. Any suggestions from people living and working in Toronto would be great.

Thanks again,

Anouk

Hang in there Anouk. Good news is that architects with 10 years of experience don't necessarily know how a building comes together. It's a lifelong learning process. That said, getting your foot in at a firm that will teach you the basics of construction documentation can be tough. You said you had some intern experience. What kind of work did you do?

You have to approach the job hunt with a bit more confidence. Name of the game is overselling. Everyone does that in this field. We all have GRRRREAT communication skills!! Candid honesty is for schmucks.

Do you know why architects work 70 hours a week? Most of the time it's guilt based. Guilt of not fully understanding what they are supposed to be doing!

Do you keep in touch with fellow graduates? Have they fared better? I haven't worked in Toronto in over 8 years, and I hear things are sluggish for some people and insanely busy for others. Everyone is gainfully employed though.

Be lucky you're not in the US. It's like a genocide down here. I know a few recent grads that have all but given up on a careers in architecture. They have $100k loans as the sole memory of wantin' to be architectin'!

Best of luck!

Hey steelstuds, thanks for your response and encouragement, I really appreciate it :)

When I was an intern for about 10 months while I was in grad school I worked at a boutique firm in Toronto that focused on residential design. I did very little CAD work, but I would translate some of their CAD drawings to models in Sketchup and then take them into 3dsMax and do some quick renderings so they could show those to clients to give them an idea of what they were thinking. I also did some material research for them. I got my LEED AP while I was in school, so though they didn't do any LEED projects, I suggested to them that I could research more sustainable materials for them to use in their designs, and they were open with me doing that for them, probably just to give me something to do.

I think the annoying thing for me working in that firm was that I would try to bring up many times that I could do CAD and would be happy to work on construction drawing sets etc., for them (I really wanted to learn that) but they were a small firm and had their more senior staff doing all of that. I do understand, because obviously they wanted things done right, but I would have loved to learn a bit from their experienced designers. I did learn some interesting things about materials and how they dealt with contractors, construction, the city of Toronto for zoning and heritage sites, etc. but I only went on one site visit, and was really a bystander.

I think between school and looking for work I have lost a lot of confidence. Although I won many scholarships while in Grad School and was a Teaching Assistant for many courses, I still don't know how to be more confident about my skill set, and that is because it seems other people have a lot more work experience.

When I was in grad school I was one of the youngest students in my class. I was in my 20's and most everyone else was in their early 30's or beyond. The older students all had a lot more work experience because they had done undergrad in Architecture, or they had been working at firms for a longer time.

I think some of the older students are doing okay because a lot of them went back to the places they worked before doing their grad work. I do know that a lot of the younger students or the students whose backgrounds are not in architecture are facing a lot of the same struggles as me. I just wish I knew a better way to fix the situation and sell myself a bit better.

Right now, as naive as this may sound, I would love to work for 70 hours a week just learning some important stuff. I try to find books on even home building and make myself draw out projects so I force myself to understand how things are put together better, but I know a lot of it you can only learn while working on a real project. Right now to pass the time I am making drawing of my parents house and trying to figure out how it would have been put together.

I am working part-time at a job at a gallery in my neighbourhood in the daytime and at a mall clothing store at night to make some money. The mall job is kind of humiliating because people I knew from high school come in and they are like I thought you have a Masters, and I'm like, yeah I do. But whatever. Luckily I only have $15,000 in student loans to repay, and I have moved back home with my parents so I can pay off those loans as quick as possible. Many of the students I went to grad school with are quite wealthy, and a lot of them can afford not to work, but that is definitely not me. Any bit of debt makes my heart race and I can't stop thinking about it till I have paid it off.

I just am keeping my fingers crossed that the fall will bring more opportunities. Thanks for all the comments and support. It makes me feel better just to get it off my chest :)

Thanks,
Anouk

Hi,
The small firm you worked with was the kind of thing I was going to suggest. Somewhere that needs visuals and where you can pick up knowledge too - if they let you.
I think you are going to do really well in the end (have you heard of Architext BTW, they do research based work/charettes etc., you might consider initiating some kind of installation/other with friends). The construction industry is always changing, architects do have to drive innovation, and the material culture ultimately has to respond to the exigencies of the culture & time.
My first technology class in college there were all these guys who had done mechanical drawing in school, and there I was. But those who had not, soon caught up.
Keep up your academic contacts, it'll just take time.

Hey Elisabeth, thanks for the suggestion. I checked out the Architext site and it looks like they do some really interesting work. I will have to read up more on their different projects before I can perhaps propose an idea and maybe find some people who also have time on their hands.

I spent some time after work last week going to my town's Habitat for Humanity office and inquiring about volunteer opportunities that I can help with on the weekends when I'm not working. They did have a couple of houses they were working on in my town so I hope that I can be put on one of those projects so I don't have to spend money on transportation getting to one of the further building sites.

The only thing that made me uncomfortable was that this Habitat for Humanity chapter seemed very Christian. I know Habitat is a faith based organization, or at least it is in my community. I am not a Christian and practice a different religion. They have this thing called Circle of Faith that they mentioned which is some sort of inter-faith project and build. This is all fine and good, but are all Habitat for Humanity builds so faith based?

People have tried to "convert" me so many times since I entered undergrad and I absolutely hate it, and it makes me very uncomfortable. I definitely want to be a part of helping out in my community and building homes for the less fortunate, but the faith aspect really makes me uneasy. I just want to help with a building project. I think I will see how it goes and then decide. I also looked into Architecture for Humanity. It doesn't seem to be faith based, but I'm not sure what I can do for them living where I live. I will have to look into them more. Does anyone know if they do projects in Ontario or Toronto?

As a side note I have been keeping in contact with my profs. They have been very encouraging and just keep telling me to apply. I met with my thesis prof the other day and went over my portfolio and talked about suggestions for improvement.

He suggested that I look further abroad perhaps to Asia. I'm not sure this is a good idea since that would cost a lot of money and I would not be guaranteed a well paid, steady job. Not to mention I don't know the language. He kept encouraging me to take risks now since I had the opportunity, but I don't think this is financially sound. What do you think? Is it better to use my savings and go somewhere else, take a chance, and get some experience? Or is it better to stay near Toronto and wait till an opportunity comes my way and work at the small jobs I already have? Do you think my jobs at the gallery and clothing store will make it seem to future architectural firms as if I don't want to be in this profession badly enough? I am so worried that my time at these places will hurt me having a chance at a good design firm.

Anyways, just keeping my fingers crossed that my luck will soon change :)

Thanks for your help,
Anouk

I think I posted elsewhere that if I were young and needed experience I'd be off to Asia like a shot! When I was just out of college I never hesitated to go and take opportunities, to me it was one of the positives of my qualification. But everyone is different.
From what I have seen of Habitat they are a very simple minded organisation there is nothing innovative about their work and they focus on the single house, but from a traditional construction point of view its probably good to see.
AFH Toronto is great but tends to be more social/conversational than
anything else. If the rubbish jobs go on too long and you have no other focus you will get criticism, but its your life and you deserve some rest at least!

The job market in Toronto is very tough. I am a fourth year architecture student at the University of Toronto. However, before coming to UofT I got a college diploma in architectural technology and even before that I got a college diploma in civil engineering technology. I've worked for a total period of 5 years, interrupted of course with all the post-secondary education I've been doing for the last 12 years, but finding work in Toronto has not been as easy as I originally thought.

There's a catch with Toronto in terms of employment. Three years going on 4 in this city has taught me a lesson. There's more employment opportunities in Toronto than in any other city in Canada. But what a lot of people forget is that as Canada's largest city, Toronto attracts a lot of talented people from all across Canada, plus most of Canada's new immigrants settle here. So even though there's more opportunities here than Montreal, Vancouver or other Canadian centre, there's more competition for those opportunities in Toronto. That's the catch.

My advice would be to network. Use Linkedin and get off of Facebook. Linkedin is for professionals. It can network easier there and they have this wonderful function that allows you to find networking sessions happening in the city of your locations. These sessions are great. Brand yourself. Design your own business card. Have a blog or personal website where you can be reached at. Attend conferences. I've attended conferences in Montreal, Toronto, Ottawa, New York, Orlando and Vegas all in the past 2 years just to gain contacts. Even if you have no experience and people throw away your business card (figuring, you can't do anything for them as someone with less experience) the point of giving your business card is to get there's. That's how you build your network of contacts.

Another suggestion I would give you is to leave Toronto in order to establish yourself. I have a friend in the media business and he counsels new grads trying to get a journalism gig in Toronto that the way the media business works, they want to see you prove yourself doing journalism in Winnipeg, Regina, Ottawa, even smaller places like Moncton, Thunder Bay, Red Deer. He's advice is "want to be a reporter in Toronto, go do the news in those places for 2-4 and get back to me" It could be the same for architecture. Maybe you need to move to Calgary, Edmonton, Saskatoon or Regina. I would avoid Vancouver, since statistically Vancouver has the most architects per capita of any city in Canada, which means your chances of getting a job as an architect there might be slim because of the competition.

Hey maissonneuve, thanks for the response and all that good advice. I mentioned on another thread I started that a friend of mine offered me a job at his graphic design and web development firm in October so I am going to be taking that opportunity for now, since architecture jobs just weren't coming my way at the moment.

I don't have the money right now to relocate myself, but I think that I will save the money I make from this new position, pay off my student loans and then I will think about applying to firms in perhaps Alberta or Saskatchewan. Do you know of any good ones there? I have checked both the Alberta and Saskatchewan Architectural Association web sites but they don't have an employment opportunities section like the Ontario Association of Architects do on their web site.

Wow, maisonneuve, you have so much education under your belt! That's awesome, and slightly disheartening for me since my undergrad degree is not in an architecturally related discipline! I actually was looking into the possibility of taking courses similar to those offered in architectural technology degrees since they do specific courses in practical architectural drafting, residential & commercial detailing, building code, material strength and so much more! Unfortunately when I contacted colleges with these programs they said I could not take them since I already have an M.Arch. Little do they know how much in need I am of some of those "practical" courses! Sometimes I wonder if I should try applying to them but leaving out my M.Arch qualifications :(

Anyway, for now I will be focusing on learning and absorbing as much as I can from this new design job with the hope of one day entering back into the architecture field. But I do still obsessively look for Toronto arch jobs! I think you're right though, that it may be good to look to other places in Canada.

Let me know how your job search goes, and good luck!


Cheers,
Anouk

Hey Anouk! Just wondering how the job search turned out. 

Hey Anouk I was wondering if you be interested in working on a small project. I been reading your post. I know you are qualified to handle it. let me know