For a moment, let's ignore the state of the national economy and the "effects of federalism." Focusing on your individual state, what's your view out the window like? Whether it's personal, anecdotal or factual, how is your state coping both architecturally and in general?
Florida just got smacked in the face. A recent report says that Florida's growth, job market and economy should improve sometime in the next several decades.
On top of that, this state has the inability to stay out of the international spotlight for at least a week— all of our cities lead the country in the number of pedestrian deaths, our legal system is a giant kangaroo court, people are getting arrested for feeding the homeless, crime rates are skyrocketing and our real estate inventory is massive.
So, I'm not entirely sure how a swift recovery is going to take place in this state.
DC has been interesting so far. Some firms in the DC metro area are still struggling especially the ones heavily involved in government projects (budget cuts, change in congress, etc). Interiors are doing fairly well in most cases and surprisingly a lot of urban mix-use, corporate/comercial, and multi-family residential projects are comming - in some cases with a vengance!
I know of some firms that are still struggling (mainly mid-sized ones) and fiNding it harder to compete with the larger offices. I know of some offices that have just imploded this year and shut their doors which is a shame but mainly due to their own financial mismanagement.
Meanwhile, there are some larger firms that have gone through some significant hiring sprees. One of which is a Global juggernaut that I work for now which has hired 70 people since January of this year. It is said that they plan on adding 100 more positions if things keep looking up like this. So we are happy and busy.
It's not necessarily unwarranted negativity to Florida. That "love it or leave it" attitude that courses through the veins of most Floridians is the exact reason why this state is and continues to be a festering shithole.
With the exception of the millionaires in the bay area...old and new monied.....the economy here is horrible. There is a segment of the upper crust, that's unaffected by the current state of things.
Downtown SF and San Jose are like giant urinals....seemingly never ending stench of urine, homeless harrassing you at every turn shaking their cups, and insulting you when you don't donate. Lots and lots of projects that are holes in the ground with fencing around them sadly hoping for greater valuation and funding..and everyone hoping "tech" will save the world...Thats my worms eye view...
Well, I'd gamble to say that part of the issue with San Francisco is the "Bay Area."
There's a relative lack of east-west urbanism within San Francisco itself on the peninsula. You could probably comfortably fit all of Palo Alto, San Jose, Sunnyvale and Cupertino along the western Great Highway— bump up density in the area to 4 to 5 stories with a mix of high-rises and a few skyscrapers.
Despite the cutesy European-East Asian urbanism in San Francisco, the greater Bay Area feels like a giant master-planned community. And I don't really know how this works either, the property in the south suburbs (Saratoga, Cupertino, Los Altos, Redwood City) is as expensive if not more expensive that living in actual San Francisco.
Who wants to pay $600,000-$1,000,000 for a house and an hour long commute?
This is what really pisses me off about the new Apple building. For $4,000,000,000... they could build one hell of a skyscraper somewhere in SF.
I have an 80 mile commute...each way. I work in downtown San Jose...it's a cesspool....and live in the central valley. I have a house, designed by one of Frank Lloyd Wrights apprentices, its a great house, a large yard in a small agricultural town. I used to live in San Jose, but $2,200 a month for a tiny shit box apartment, knowing I cannot afford even a piece of shit house in a crappy unsafe neighborhood, was frustrating me. The bay area is insanity, especially now, even though foreclosures are still high, home prices are still nuts. And now, the rentals are just as crazy as the boom days....I used to be passionate about my work, now it is a 40 hour a week shitty paycheck. Just try to get through the day without doing anything stupid.
Well, if the rumors I've been hearing from a friend in NYC are even remotely true... I heard a famous search engine company has been buying up blocks in Lower Manhattan and the phrase "corporate relocation" has been used.
I doubt that will replace anything here, seems to be for expansion of existing NY operations. But, I am surprised that more industries have not left the bay area.
We're all in debt, no matter the state. It's the American way.
The only "good debt" is the one you don't have to pay. If you die a in as much debt as Louis Kahn, you've beaten the system. He was the ultimate architect..... and American.
If you like working in as a roughneck in a slicking operation or working for minimum wage, then go for it. But I wouldn't necessarily call North Dakota a bastion of economic might— New York had a growth rate of 5.1% despite being the polar opposite of the Dakotas.
The economic forces behind the growth in North Dakota might end up entirely drying up in the near future if hydraulic fracturing is outlawed. There's a huge political and cultural ramification— the interior of the United States is essentially an economic wasteland that's propped up by mineral extraction and other heavy industry. Even worse is that the cities and communities that have significant wealthy populations have the resources to avoid or mitigate these.
That's what makes the Dakotas a particular safe haven for these practices is that there's no Santa Fe, Vail, Aspen, Jackson Hole, Big Bear Lake, Salt Lake City, Taos, Tahoe, Colorado Springs, Sheridan, Bozeman et cetera type cities with a small army of lawyers to keep these practices to a minimum or prevent them from happening all together.
I don't think a decade of $100,000 paychecks really makes up for what happens after these activities dry up— the west is filled with shithole towns that traded a few boom years for a century or two of destitution and anguish.
I don't think it's just the west. It's the history of American planning -from its founding to 1862 to the Federal Highway Act. Getting things done quickly, consuming/ super-sizing on foreign resources, and making a quick buck while sucking future generations and foreigners dry, well, it's the American way. Anything less would be anti-american. Here in NY, Moses epitomized the American futurama. When things needed a little tlc, the best remedy was to bring in the demo crew and put a highway straight through it.
"the interior of the United States is essentially an economic wasteland that's propped up by mineral extraction and other heavy industry" Most of us in the wasteland sort of think of New York and LA as being fairly useless beyond skimming our resource and labor wealth off in their latest money changer temple games or culture eroding media filth. If you coasters want to split, be our guests. You can have your "culture" and we'll keep the food, industry and resources. I'm sure we can sell them ourselves without the moneychangers.
What a fantastic idea! Nothing seems to get accomplished anymore because Americans don't agree on what is important. Ill take New England. Wall Street you're not welcome. We will have single payer health care. Vermont has already been pushing for that. Regional business. If your not putting the money back into our economy GTFO. You don't want to pay taxes on billions in profits GTFO No offshore corporations, no chinese poorly made doo dads (or should I say poison made doo dads?) Plenty of locally grown food, living wages, and environmental standards providing breathable air and drinkable water.
The south can revoke minimum wage, abolish all environmental regulations and workers rights, and exile all democrats. Set the place up as a theocracy. Let corporations run rough shod over the place. Drill baby drill. Turn the entire gulf of Mexico into an oil slick. See if we give a shit.
It would be interesting to compare and contrast a couple of decades down the road.
This thread brings an interesting thought to my head: I have a feeling the balkanization of America is looking more and more inevitable. Politically, I think we're dead in the water at this point 'cause all I see for the next few decades is just continuous left - right political banter w/ 0 chance of any real useful legislation emerging from D.C. - legislation that would actually fix the problems that threaten the very existance of the U.S. Government, like soaring health care costs and oil dependency.
If we can't reach any kind of cohesive, bi-partisan agreement on these kinds of issues, then they'll never be fixed. With the political climate in this country becoming increasingly polarized, deadlock looks increasingly inevitable.
Why fix them? In the midwest we grow food for the world, export our jobs and livelyhoods so some asshole in Connecticut can a 4th home and get ripped off by the thieves in DC sending cock shots to 17 year old girls and NYC ponzie schemes while our children get perverted by the filth in Hollywood. I would love for the midwest and great lakes to escape the indentured servitude we've been put into. Hell, Id be for joining Canada. But wholesale destruction of our region by the coastal elites has to stop, one way or another. Dont kid yourselves, it's getting close to violence out here. When the people in the streets of Detroit and Chicago stop killing each other, they will turn on the powers that be, be sure of that. Do you blame them?
California and Florida (as well as Georgia, North Carolina, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont) produce most of the food in the U.S. that's actually eaten that's not a pile of congealed turkey bits or food in the form of corn reassembled as pork.
I don't see to many people saying, "By golly, I really need to get home so I can eat a big heaping of malted barley and wheat gruel with a splash of canola oil, some soy bran and topped with beet sugar syrup!"
By and large, the interior of the United States constantly makes poor decisions and hold onto imaginary traditions (invented decades after the first people arrived) that have undermined their own downfall.
New York City didn't make American steel economically uncompetitive by forcing factory owners to continue to operate out of 100 year old mills.
Miami didn't create the organic foods market that's destroyed market pricing for more "traditional foods."
Los Angeles didn't move the paper mills into Canada or India because Los Angeles didn't force the factory owners to poison tens-of-thousands of people by dumping factory effluent straight into neighborhoods.
Seattle didn't instruct Detroit to start the Ossetia Sweet riots nor did Portland make Chicago build walls through its own city and demolish the houses of blacks to run trains through poor neighborhoods.
Boston didn't force Monsanto to create questionable feed and seed contracts nor did Boston sue hundreds if not thousands of Farmers.
many people may not be saying..."By golly, I really need to get home so I can eat a big heaping of malted barley and wheat gruel with a splash of canola oil, some soy bran and topped with beet sugar syrup!" but that's what they're eating and loving it and getting fat and diabetic. put on the feed bag amerika.
Well, in Wisconsin we elected a college drop-out as governor (yes, really), so unless you're a corporate exec, or are in the business of building roads, things don't seem to be improving much. Madison has been in the news for the protests against the union busting going on, and while I've never been in a union myself, I really can't understand how trying to get better wages is evil. But on the bright side one staffing company had a survey that predicted Milwaukee as one of the highest hiring metro areas in the future, though I personally don't take much stock in economic predictions anymore. Another survey that just came out that shows that 88% of Wisconsin CEOs think the state is going in the right direction, where last year (under a Democratic governor) it was only 10%. Call me silly, but when the uber-rich start cheering I start to think everybody else had better stock up on lube for the upcoming butt-hurt they are about to receive...
@Jason... the point to this was to ignore interstate and national politics. Even though the U.S. is a single country, it's so massive that every individual state can be seen as a single country with its own particular problems and the possible solutions there are to those problems. It also helps us to see where and what possible opportunities, architecturally or not, there are.
Most of us have a clear image— how that image is interpreted is entirely a different subject— of what goes on the national level. But aside from the federal issues, we don't always know our neighbors.
Milwaukee08 and medi have pretty decent examples of looking at things at a more local level.
Yup, the midwest is doing pretty good. Maybe the rest of the US is in the shitter because they have no idea where the wealth comes from or how to manage it.
If weight is an indicator of weight, then I'd agree the Midwest is doing very well. I spent some time out there an hands down, the most obese people I've seen on this planet reside in Michigan. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. America is the only country where you will find poor people who are morbidly super-sized.
" Call me silly, but when the uber-rich start cheering I start to think everybody else had better stock up on lube for the upcoming butt-hurt they are about to receive..."
according to Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution 25 percent of Los Angeles is obese. the problem is everywhere. stop eating so much junk food kids we need you to pay our social security!
Love the comment on poor overweight people in michigan representing wealth. Puts things into perspective, we don't have much room for complaining, do we?
Well, it's not everyday I hear people referring the midwest as doing pretty good. I imagine it couldn't have anything to do with the high unemployment rate or shrinking population. Obesity was a sign of wealth in many foreign cultures. Michigan is extremely wealthy in that department.
Define the "Midwest." Are we talking about East North Central (Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio) or West North Central (Nebraska, Kansas Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri and the Dakotas)? Or literally the entire Midwest? By that logic, one could say the entire Southeast has a good economy because the District of Columbia, Atlanta, Memphis and Charlotte are located within the "Southeast."
And economic growth is one thing but one must consider the "quality" of that economic growth— Are these economies creating jobs that pay a livable wage? Will these jobs last at least 10-20 years? How are these economies developing themselves physically?
Because if we're just talking about job numbers and dollar signs, 10,000 minimum-wage jobs do look good on paper. The reality of 10,000 minimum-wage jobs is pretty dismal though.
Los Angeles California is doing Much better lately. From my experience after the death of Architecture in 2008, Firms big and small have been hiring 200% in 2011. I found a job at an Architecture firm in West Hollywood for a bit and got a better offer that I took. I'm currently at my new Position, moon Lighting side work for my last two employer's on the weekends and still getting other job offers. I feel good about whats happening, you just have to hustle when you can!
Not to be too rude, but I work in SF and live in the Berkeley and do not smell urine everywhere I go, and the homeless are relatively well mannered compared to other places I have lived (though, the climate is conducive to there being a lot of homeless people). In addition, all of the people I know (who want to work) in Architecture are employed. I have heard of several lay-offs over the past several months but they all have found work within a week or two. Most people from the M. Arch program at Cal (where I am) had multiple offers for decent paying internships. I don’t pipe up much in here, but in case anyone is actually using these forums to get a perspective on reality, let it be known that the state of the Bay Area is not as terrible as it has been described within this thread :)
I'm no economist surely, but I do wonder if the original question in the OP is a bit of a moot point?
I think that for state economies to remain [or become] viable they have to begin thinking of themselves in a global market, not a national one. I hate generalizing, but I think that in general the States has relied upon itself way too much as an economic generator.
To put things in the architecture realm: In terms of building technology, what does the US export? In my experience, the US is constantly importing 'new' ideas and products from Europe and Asia.
I work for a Europe based office, yet most of the projects I work on are located in North America. And I always run into the same issues on every project. ''That product/material/way of working/thinking has been commonplace in the EU for 30 years, but how does it stand up to American code?'' is commonplace. It does seem ridiculously old fashioned to assume that products that are acceptable on the streets of Hamburg are unacceptable on the streets of Charlotte. I wonder if it's plausible to rethink the IBC as a means to introduce an economic level playing field to the US?
For example, Germany has used it's expertise in the manufacturing of car wind shields to inform their manufacturing of glazing to building facades. And now 40'' by 10 ft glass units are entirely plausible [if not affordable for most projects]. What have US entrepreneurs exported either virtually or physically to the international architectural market that is of comparable sophistication in the past ten years?
politically speaking I'm not so sure geography as it relates to the the land mass that is the lower 48 matters nearly as much as the geography that generically relates to center city relative to suburb relative to rural. If there was going to be any kind of great bifurcation, i think it would begin with an urban/rural split... thats where i see the most dramatic disconnect between values and priorities. For instance, i would imagine central city voters priorities in Chicago much more closely relate to similarly located New yorkers than the do to the residents of Naperville.... And if you talk about Chicago's political priorities as it relates to "downstate" Illinois... well, in that case, we're basically talking about Jon Stewart vs Bill O'reily style conflict there...
though... im a snooty urbanite... rural and ex-urban living is massively inefficient, and i'm praying for the day Chicago secedes! I'm tired of seeing tax dolalrs go to speculative highways 100 miles from me while the high school 5 blocks from me barely functions let alone educates... Chicagonia! We already have a bad ass flag!
The residents of DuPage County probably would like an explanation on why democratic, union controlled Chicago and Cook County are $108 Billion in the hole. Yes, Billion, with a B. They even had to pass a special "truthful disclosure" law to get the democrats to open the books. Please, by all means, do secede, so you dont take down the entire state of Illinois with you.
oh... oh just you wait... you'll be singing a different tune when Chicago's tax base stops subsidizing your endlessly sprawling suburbs...
perhaps we should try this... rather than extracting hundreds of thousands, nay, millions of dollars from businesses in the loop, then blowing it on resource hogging mansions and grotesquely unequally funded schools, we put our money where our mouths are and support the places that support us? sounds like a plan to me!
"The residents of DuPage County probably would like an explanation on why democratic, union controlled Chicago and Cook County are $108 Billion in the hole."
That's because large urban centers have been subsidizing suburban and rural communities to a point where most of them are in a huge financial hole. Only a tiny portion of taxes collected from urbanites and city businesses are ultimately spent back on city needs.
I suspect DuPage county would quickly turn into a third world type of settlement were it not for it's proximity to a money maker like Chicago.
How did the idea that living closely together costs more than living sprawled out all over the place? Aren't there more taxpayers supporting the services?
Before you go bad mouthing the rural people consider where your food comes from and why it might be desirable in the future to have farms nearby.
The economic situation in your state?
For a moment, let's ignore the state of the national economy and the "effects of federalism." Focusing on your individual state, what's your view out the window like? Whether it's personal, anecdotal or factual, how is your state coping both architecturally and in general?
Florida just got smacked in the face. A recent report says that Florida's growth, job market and economy should improve sometime in the next several decades.
On top of that, this state has the inability to stay out of the international spotlight for at least a week— all of our cities lead the country in the number of pedestrian deaths, our legal system is a giant kangaroo court, people are getting arrested for feeding the homeless, crime rates are skyrocketing and our real estate inventory is massive.
So, I'm not entirely sure how a swift recovery is going to take place in this state.
What's your state like?
So much negativity towards my state...Florida...love it or leave it. Firms are hiring, via the underground network
For feeding the homeless? Like feeding zoo animals, I guess that would only encourage them...to live.
DC has been interesting so far. Some firms in the DC metro area are still struggling especially the ones heavily involved in government projects (budget cuts, change in congress, etc). Interiors are doing fairly well in most cases and surprisingly a lot of urban mix-use, corporate/comercial, and multi-family residential projects are comming - in some cases with a vengance!
I know of some firms that are still struggling (mainly mid-sized ones) and fiNding it harder to compete with the larger offices. I know of some offices that have just imploded this year and shut their doors which is a shame but mainly due to their own financial mismanagement.
Meanwhile, there are some larger firms that have gone through some significant hiring sprees. One of which is a Global juggernaut that I work for now which has hired 70 people since January of this year. It is said that they plan on adding 100 more positions if things keep looking up like this. So we are happy and busy.
It's not necessarily unwarranted negativity to Florida. That "love it or leave it" attitude that courses through the veins of most Floridians is the exact reason why this state is and continues to be a festering shithole.
I wouldn't pick on Florida if it didn't ask to picked on every other day. Like how our state can't even decide whether or not it actually wants to drug test public-sector employees even though the controversial idea has become law.
Also, since I posted this, 7 pedestrians in Florida have been killed by automobile-related accidents.
One side note: Florida is now privatizing the state's medicaid nursing home and could force as many as 3 million people back into the community under 'managed care programs.'
With the exception of the millionaires in the bay area...old and new monied.....the economy here is horrible. There is a segment of the upper crust, that's unaffected by the current state of things.
Bay area... San Fransisco? I've always wondered how that city stays afloat.
Yes, the greater (and not so great) San Francisco bay area..
Downtown SF and San Jose are like giant urinals....seemingly never ending stench of urine, homeless harrassing you at every turn shaking their cups, and insulting you when you don't donate. Lots and lots of projects that are holes in the ground with fencing around them sadly hoping for greater valuation and funding..and everyone hoping "tech" will save the world...Thats my worms eye view...
Well, I'd gamble to say that part of the issue with San Francisco is the "Bay Area."
There's a relative lack of east-west urbanism within San Francisco itself on the peninsula. You could probably comfortably fit all of Palo Alto, San Jose, Sunnyvale and Cupertino along the western Great Highway— bump up density in the area to 4 to 5 stories with a mix of high-rises and a few skyscrapers.
Despite the cutesy European-East Asian urbanism in San Francisco, the greater Bay Area feels like a giant master-planned community. And I don't really know how this works either, the property in the south suburbs (Saratoga, Cupertino, Los Altos, Redwood City) is as expensive if not more expensive that living in actual San Francisco.
Who wants to pay $600,000-$1,000,000 for a house and an hour long commute?
This is what really pisses me off about the new Apple building. For $4,000,000,000... they could build one hell of a skyscraper somewhere in SF.
I have an 80 mile commute...each way. I work in downtown San Jose...it's a cesspool....and live in the central valley. I have a house, designed by one of Frank Lloyd Wrights apprentices, its a great house, a large yard in a small agricultural town. I used to live in San Jose, but $2,200 a month for a tiny shit box apartment, knowing I cannot afford even a piece of shit house in a crappy unsafe neighborhood, was frustrating me. The bay area is insanity, especially now, even though foreclosures are still high, home prices are still nuts. And now, the rentals are just as crazy as the boom days....I used to be passionate about my work, now it is a 40 hour a week shitty paycheck. Just try to get through the day without doing anything stupid.
Well, if the rumors I've been hearing from a friend in NYC are even remotely true... I heard a famous search engine company has been buying up blocks in Lower Manhattan and the phrase "corporate relocation" has been used.
Just look up 111 Eights Ave for instance.
I doubt that will replace anything here, seems to be for expansion of existing NY operations. But, I am surprised that more industries have not left the bay area.
We're all in debt, no matter the state. It's the American way.
The only "good debt" is the one you don't have to pay. If you die a in as much debt as Louis Kahn, you've beaten the system. He was the ultimate architect..... and American.
I hear North Dakota is roaring
you betcha..
Yer darn tootin' it is...http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2011-03-16-north-dakota-census_N.htm
"North Dakota is roaring"
If you like working in as a roughneck in a slicking operation or working for minimum wage, then go for it. But I wouldn't necessarily call North Dakota a bastion of economic might— New York had a growth rate of 5.1% despite being the polar opposite of the Dakotas.
The economic forces behind the growth in North Dakota might end up entirely drying up in the near future if hydraulic fracturing is outlawed. There's a huge political and cultural ramification— the interior of the United States is essentially an economic wasteland that's propped up by mineral extraction and other heavy industry. Even worse is that the cities and communities that have significant wealthy populations have the resources to avoid or mitigate these.
That's what makes the Dakotas a particular safe haven for these practices is that there's no Santa Fe, Vail, Aspen, Jackson Hole, Big Bear Lake, Salt Lake City, Taos, Tahoe, Colorado Springs, Sheridan, Bozeman et cetera type cities with a small army of lawyers to keep these practices to a minimum or prevent them from happening all together.
I don't think a decade of $100,000 paychecks really makes up for what happens after these activities dry up— the west is filled with shithole towns that traded a few boom years for a century or two of destitution and anguish.
I don't think it's just the west. It's the history of American planning -from its founding to 1862 to the Federal Highway Act. Getting things done quickly, consuming/ super-sizing on foreign resources, and making a quick buck while sucking future generations and foreigners dry, well, it's the American way. Anything less would be anti-american. Here in NY, Moses epitomized the American futurama. When things needed a little tlc, the best remedy was to bring in the demo crew and put a highway straight through it.
"the interior of the United States is essentially an economic wasteland that's propped up by mineral extraction and other heavy industry" Most of us in the wasteland sort of think of New York and LA as being fairly useless beyond skimming our resource and labor wealth off in their latest money changer temple games or culture eroding media filth. If you coasters want to split, be our guests. You can have your "culture" and we'll keep the food, industry and resources. I'm sure we can sell them ourselves without the moneychangers.
If you coasters want to split, be our guests.
What a fantastic idea! Nothing seems to get accomplished anymore because Americans don't agree on what is important. Ill take New England. Wall Street you're not welcome. We will have single payer health care. Vermont has already been pushing for that. Regional business. If your not putting the money back into our economy GTFO. You don't want to pay taxes on billions in profits GTFO No offshore corporations, no chinese poorly made doo dads (or should I say poison made doo dads?) Plenty of locally grown food, living wages, and environmental standards providing breathable air and drinkable water.
The south can revoke minimum wage, abolish all environmental regulations and workers rights, and exile all democrats. Set the place up as a theocracy. Let corporations run rough shod over the place. Drill baby drill. Turn the entire gulf of Mexico into an oil slick. See if we give a shit.
It would be interesting to compare and contrast a couple of decades down the road.
This thread brings an interesting thought to my head: I have a feeling the balkanization of America is looking more and more inevitable. Politically, I think we're dead in the water at this point 'cause all I see for the next few decades is just continuous left - right political banter w/ 0 chance of any real useful legislation emerging from D.C. - legislation that would actually fix the problems that threaten the very existance of the U.S. Government, like soaring health care costs and oil dependency.
If we can't reach any kind of cohesive, bi-partisan agreement on these kinds of issues, then they'll never be fixed. With the political climate in this country becoming increasingly polarized, deadlock looks increasingly inevitable.
Why fix them? In the midwest we grow food for the world, export our jobs and livelyhoods so some asshole in Connecticut can a 4th home and get ripped off by the thieves in DC sending cock shots to 17 year old girls and NYC ponzie schemes while our children get perverted by the filth in Hollywood. I would love for the midwest and great lakes to escape the indentured servitude we've been put into. Hell, Id be for joining Canada. But wholesale destruction of our region by the coastal elites has to stop, one way or another. Dont kid yourselves, it's getting close to violence out here. When the people in the streets of Detroit and Chicago stop killing each other, they will turn on the powers that be, be sure of that. Do you blame them?
You calling me an asshole?? Are ya?!?!
What? You grow slop in the midwest.
California and Florida (as well as Georgia, North Carolina, New Mexico, Oregon, Vermont) produce most of the food in the U.S. that's actually eaten that's not a pile of congealed turkey bits or food in the form of corn reassembled as pork.
I don't see to many people saying, "By golly, I really need to get home so I can eat a big heaping of malted barley and wheat gruel with a splash of canola oil, some soy bran and topped with beet sugar syrup!"
By and large, the interior of the United States constantly makes poor decisions and hold onto imaginary traditions (invented decades after the first people arrived) that have undermined their own downfall.
New York City didn't make American steel economically uncompetitive by forcing factory owners to continue to operate out of 100 year old mills.
Miami didn't create the organic foods market that's destroyed market pricing for more "traditional foods."
Los Angeles didn't move the paper mills into Canada or India because Los Angeles didn't force the factory owners to poison tens-of-thousands of people by dumping factory effluent straight into neighborhoods.
Seattle didn't instruct Detroit to start the Ossetia Sweet riots nor did Portland make Chicago build walls through its own city and demolish the houses of blacks to run trains through poor neighborhoods.
Boston didn't force Monsanto to create questionable feed and seed contracts nor did Boston sue hundreds if not thousands of Farmers.
many people may not be saying..."By golly, I really need to get home so I can eat a big heaping of malted barley and wheat gruel with a splash of canola oil, some soy bran and topped with beet sugar syrup!" but that's what they're eating and loving it and getting fat and diabetic. put on the feed bag amerika.
My mom made the best gruel.....damn I miss the midwest.
So what exactly is the point of all this?
Well, in Wisconsin we elected a college drop-out as governor (yes, really), so unless you're a corporate exec, or are in the business of building roads, things don't seem to be improving much. Madison has been in the news for the protests against the union busting going on, and while I've never been in a union myself, I really can't understand how trying to get better wages is evil. But on the bright side one staffing company had a survey that predicted Milwaukee as one of the highest hiring metro areas in the future, though I personally don't take much stock in economic predictions anymore. Another survey that just came out that shows that 88% of Wisconsin CEOs think the state is going in the right direction, where last year (under a Democratic governor) it was only 10%. Call me silly, but when the uber-rich start cheering I start to think everybody else had better stock up on lube for the upcoming butt-hurt they are about to receive...
@Jason... the point to this was to ignore interstate and national politics. Even though the U.S. is a single country, it's so massive that every individual state can be seen as a single country with its own particular problems and the possible solutions there are to those problems. It also helps us to see where and what possible opportunities, architecturally or not, there are.
Most of us have a clear image— how that image is interpreted is entirely a different subject— of what goes on the national level. But aside from the federal issues, we don't always know our neighbors.
Milwaukee08 and medi have pretty decent examples of looking at things at a more local level.
Yup, the midwest is doing pretty good. Maybe the rest of the US is in the shitter because they have no idea where the wealth comes from or how to manage it.
If weight is an indicator of weight, then I'd agree the Midwest is doing very well. I spent some time out there an hands down, the most obese people I've seen on this planet reside in Michigan. Unfortunately, it doesn't work that way. America is the only country where you will find poor people who are morbidly super-sized.
*indicator of wealth*
" Call me silly, but when the uber-rich start cheering I start to think everybody else had better stock up on lube for the upcoming butt-hurt they are about to receive..."
Exactly
according to Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution 25 percent of Los Angeles is obese. the problem is everywhere. stop eating so much junk food kids we need you to pay our social security!
Love the comment on poor overweight people in michigan representing wealth. Puts things into perspective, we don't have much room for complaining, do we?
Well, it's not everyday I hear people referring the midwest as doing pretty good. I imagine it couldn't have anything to do with the high unemployment rate or shrinking population. Obesity was a sign of wealth in many foreign cultures. Michigan is extremely wealthy in that department.
Where you are going wrong is that you are picturing the worst and using it to represent all, burningman.
Define the "Midwest." Are we talking about East North Central (Wisconsin, Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Ohio) or West North Central (Nebraska, Kansas Minnesota, Iowa, Missouri and the Dakotas)? Or literally the entire Midwest? By that logic, one could say the entire Southeast has a good economy because the District of Columbia, Atlanta, Memphis and Charlotte are located within the "Southeast."
And economic growth is one thing but one must consider the "quality" of that economic growth— Are these economies creating jobs that pay a livable wage? Will these jobs last at least 10-20 years? How are these economies developing themselves physically?
Because if we're just talking about job numbers and dollar signs, 10,000 minimum-wage jobs do look good on paper. The reality of 10,000 minimum-wage jobs is pretty dismal though.
jjr - atlanta, memphis, and charlotte are not doing 'good'. trust me on the first one and i'll believe my friends that live in the other two...
Los Angeles California is doing Much better lately. From my experience after the death of Architecture in 2008, Firms big and small have been hiring 200% in 2011. I found a job at an Architecture firm in West Hollywood for a bit and got a better offer that I took. I'm currently at my new Position, moon Lighting side work for my last two employer's on the weekends and still getting other job offers. I feel good about whats happening, you just have to hustle when you can!
new jersey's "situation"
Actually, Mr. Sorrentino is a New Yorker. Born, raised and resides in New York's very own Staten Island.
Not to be too rude, but I work in SF and live in the Berkeley and do not smell urine everywhere I go, and the homeless are relatively well mannered compared to other places I have lived (though, the climate is conducive to there being a lot of homeless people). In addition, all of the people I know (who want to work) in Architecture are employed. I have heard of several lay-offs over the past several months but they all have found work within a week or two. Most people from the M. Arch program at Cal (where I am) had multiple offers for decent paying internships. I don’t pipe up much in here, but in case anyone is actually using these forums to get a perspective on reality, let it be known that the state of the Bay Area is not as terrible as it has been described within this thread :)
I'm no economist surely, but I do wonder if the original question in the OP is a bit of a moot point?
I think that for state economies to remain [or become] viable they have to begin thinking of themselves in a global market, not a national one. I hate generalizing, but I think that in general the States has relied upon itself way too much as an economic generator.
To put things in the architecture realm: In terms of building technology, what does the US export? In my experience, the US is constantly importing 'new' ideas and products from Europe and Asia.
I work for a Europe based office, yet most of the projects I work on are located in North America. And I always run into the same issues on every project. ''That product/material/way of working/thinking has been commonplace in the EU for 30 years, but how does it stand up to American code?'' is commonplace. It does seem ridiculously old fashioned to assume that products that are acceptable on the streets of Hamburg are unacceptable on the streets of Charlotte. I wonder if it's plausible to rethink the IBC as a means to introduce an economic level playing field to the US?
For example, Germany has used it's expertise in the manufacturing of car wind shields to inform their manufacturing of glazing to building facades. And now 40'' by 10 ft glass units are entirely plausible [if not affordable for most projects]. What have US entrepreneurs exported either virtually or physically to the international architectural market that is of comparable sophistication in the past ten years?
Would you rather buy stock in Ford or Honda?
politically speaking I'm not so sure geography as it relates to the the land mass that is the lower 48 matters nearly as much as the geography that generically relates to center city relative to suburb relative to rural. If there was going to be any kind of great bifurcation, i think it would begin with an urban/rural split... thats where i see the most dramatic disconnect between values and priorities. For instance, i would imagine central city voters priorities in Chicago much more closely relate to similarly located New yorkers than the do to the residents of Naperville.... And if you talk about Chicago's political priorities as it relates to "downstate" Illinois... well, in that case, we're basically talking about Jon Stewart vs Bill O'reily style conflict there...
though... im a snooty urbanite... rural and ex-urban living is massively inefficient, and i'm praying for the day Chicago secedes! I'm tired of seeing tax dolalrs go to speculative highways 100 miles from me while the high school 5 blocks from me barely functions let alone educates... Chicagonia! We already have a bad ass flag!
The residents of DuPage County probably would like an explanation on why democratic, union controlled Chicago and Cook County are $108 Billion in the hole. Yes, Billion, with a B. They even had to pass a special "truthful disclosure" law to get the democrats to open the books. Please, by all means, do secede, so you dont take down the entire state of Illinois with you.
http://www.chicagobusiness.com/section/blogs?blogID=greg-hinz&plckController=Blog&plckBlogPage=BlogViewPost&uid=1daca073-2eab-468e-9f19-ec177090a35c&plckPostId=Blog:1daca073-2eab-468e-9f19-ec177090a35cPost:73061b12-c71d-45b0-aad9-130e57727e64&plckScript=blogScript&plckElementId=blogDest
oh... oh just you wait... you'll be singing a different tune when Chicago's tax base stops subsidizing your endlessly sprawling suburbs...
perhaps we should try this... rather than extracting hundreds of thousands, nay, millions of dollars from businesses in the loop, then blowing it on resource hogging mansions and grotesquely unequally funded schools, we put our money where our mouths are and support the places that support us? sounds like a plan to me!
"The residents of DuPage County probably would like an explanation on why democratic, union controlled Chicago and Cook County are $108 Billion in the hole."
That's because large urban centers have been subsidizing suburban and rural communities to a point where most of them are in a huge financial hole. Only a tiny portion of taxes collected from urbanites and city businesses are ultimately spent back on city needs.
I suspect DuPage county would quickly turn into a third world type of settlement were it not for it's proximity to a money maker like Chicago.
How did the idea that living closely together costs more than living sprawled out all over the place? Aren't there more taxpayers supporting the services?
Before you go bad mouthing the rural people consider where your food comes from and why it might be desirable in the future to have farms nearby.
That's because large urban centers have been subsidizing suburban and rural communities to a point where most of them are in a huge financial hole.
Since when did cities start funding other jurisdictions?
This thread is a morass of flamebaiting, half-baked bullshit.
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