ACAD is the most versitile of all the programs and can be used simply or complexly. It would be wise as an ACAD virgin to get your butt to a jr college for a 6 week intro course and then to a job where you can spend a year or 2 learning the program and how its used for different steps in the process of designing and executing a building. Its by far the largest program with the most users and for good reason.
Pimpamzee - long time no hear. Expect a call 2morow, I have 2 leads you be intereted in. On ACAD of course. You still fighting with the Archicad Demon or has it grown on you? Asta....
I took a class in AutoCAD that basically taught me nothing. The best way, IMO, to learn it is to work in an office sitting in a desk next to someone who knows it well and can explain it to you. Start with an existing drawing that needs to be revised, spend 8-hour days for the next month doing it and constantly asking your deskmate questions, and you'll get it.
and liberty bell as well ... the best way to learn Acad is by query and practice... classes wont do anything for you ( except for maybe some nice snooze)
Its just so frustrating when I see my classmate presenting their work using cad, (don’t get me wrong, good for them) last week this girl presented her project she actually walked us thru her drawing w/ the freaking computer. It was like watching a cartoon. So when I do my presentation it's not even anything close to those who are using cad, and that sucks. That’s why I have to learn; it’s all about how you present your project and even though my work is good I cant compete with someone who is using cad with Photoshop or whatever they are using.
but you gotta keep up with the rest sheri ...there just is no other way. I understand the frustration ... and you'll like using it too, once you get the hang of it.
but remember "alway design using pen and paper ... only the drafting should be on cad!!!"
when i first learned autocad i had a deadline for a school project ( for me, the best incentive for learning new software ) and a good friend sitting close to his phone to answer questions as i floundered my way through paper space. it took a good day or two before i stopped calling him, but i don't remember the software itself being that hard.
is there something specific about the software that drives you barmy or just at a loss with where to start?
i have to admit to learning cad in a class. at the time i felt like i was falling behind by not knowing it. i took a night class at the architecture school in town (useless: why teach how the program was developed? i had to learn pascal, for goodness sake!) and then wised up and paid $110 for a class at the technical school. didn't teach me everything i needed, but gave me a huge jumpstart.
Simply doing a presentation on cad versus pencil and paper (or pen and bond, or ink and mylar, etc etc) will NOT magically make it a better project. *Especially* if working in cad is not natural to you.
If you want to make better presentations, then think deeply about your project and yourself and the best way to communicate the ideas/spaces that are the strongest of your project.
I struggled with this for years in school and finally figured out what worked best for me and what presented MY projects well. I never presented a project using cad in school, but my presentations reflected me and my projects and I did well in them.
If i were you, I would talk to your professor, explain that you are frustrated with feeling like cad presentations outstrip yours, and what would he/she recommend to show your project off the best?
also I have seen some AWFUL all-cad presentations. And they were ripped apart in critique. I have also seen some decent ones. The presentation idea and resolution is what's important; the tool is not.
And if you're at a school where the mere appearance of cad alone is like some magical flute that blows away your professors, then frankly I would seriously doubt the worth of that school.
myriam is right on with these last two comments. My belief is that slick cad drawings can hide a multitude of mistakes, what you want for your presentations is a presentation style that will best sell your ideas. Cad is a tool, nothing more, and is probably most often not the right tool. My partner and I do a hell of a lot of client presentations using a quick hand-drafted drawing overlaid with hand rendering and markers. Cad is basically only used for construction documents.
But it sounds to me like you are going to be doing professional work soon and feel you need the cad in the workplace? Be honest with a potential employer, tell them you have such strong skills in X and Y (nad rendering, putting together a finish schedule, RCPs, whatever)that they will want to hire you, and you have no doubt that a few days/couple weeks learning cad by doing it for them you will be right up to speed.
I always get A’s on my projects, my problem is that I always compare myself w/ those who do a great job on their presentations, and I agree, I've seen bad work as well w/ cad. But in my opinion two people (cad vs. pen) who both do an equally good job on their project, the one using cad will always out perform the one using pen.
i missed the bit about using cad for presentations. i don't think it is that important to use cad at that stage of things, even in our toy-story culture.
One of my favorite architects is peter salter, who i somehow get the feeling is not a big CAD fan.
peter did a building about 20 minutes from my home in the country. it is still one of my favorites. doesn't look so much like his drawings but does capture the feeling of them i think, which is in the end more important...
"One of my favorite architects is peter salter, who i somehow get the feeling is not a big CAD fan."
He used to be head of my univesity (UEL) now he is at the AA. We had his drawings up and they are amazing when you take a good look at them, it gave me that warm i can't do shit feeling.
Love this zombie thread. I wonder if OP hates Revit now :)
Coincedently tduds I'm writing some code in Python for Dynamo in Revit right now does that count? It links excel sheets with code notes... snooze. I used to love the old autocad lisp routines. Can I get some squiggly lines up in here? Anyone?
I have been doing AutoCad professionally for almost 20 years now. I can't think of a more simple cad program to learn on the fly and be able to draw lines, circles, etc. Basic geometry we are talking and spit out a drawing in 5 10 minutes. You just need someone who is well versed in the software to teach you the fundamentals of it and the core commands like move, scale, line, stretch, text, etc. Once you get those down and practice with them everything else will fall into place. Best of luck.
Revit to me is easier and more realistic. I love designing buildings with Revit, but my firm is not really as "good" with the software as I would have hoped. I am the most experienced Revit draftsman in my whole office and I work at a big firm specializing in health care design. Revit to me is the best way to design a building from the smart structural components to the ability from creating individual construction components to replicate the "actual" process of building from start to finish.
I also hate cad. It's a worthy thread title to dredge up, to vent/commiserate about how last century and terrible cad is. Cue the boomer's 'back in my day we hand to hand draw'. Yeah but Revit didn't exist, and cad did so you left hand drawing for cad. Same as everyone should now leave cad for BIM. The natural progression of technology.
As an old boomer who cut his teeth on graphite on mylar, I don't miss those days. Sitting on a stool humped over a drafting table. Graphite all over your arm and shirt. A painful indentation in your index finger after hand lettering notes most of the day. Having to "freshen up" line work after the tracing had been handled too many times. Manually checking dimensions. Erasing and moving shit over and over again. Not quickly knowing whether elements that were supposed to line up really did without extensive dimension verification. Yeeech.
Can't comment on Revit, but the biggest complaint with AutoCad was the feature bloat with every new release. Sometimes seemed like the hard way to a simple drawing. But, overall, CAD is better. Plus, you get to sit in a comfortable chair at desk height rather than a grey metal drafting stool with a masonite seat. No small improvement.
Aug 19, 17 5:47 pm ·
·
Wilma Buttfit
It would be nice to do just field type sketches though. I recently came across an old grading document from the 60's that was literally a few lines hand drawn, not to scale, and the word retaining walls scribbled on it. To produce the same document today with the technology available means a LOT more work.
Aug 19, 17 5:56 pm ·
·
Wilma Buttfit
I'm not exactly old, but I started my career by handdrafting too. Worked for a guy in his 80's when I was a student. I like to stand to draft.
I question the accuracy and speed of hand sketching thousands of mass produced parts. Same goes for CAD once you scale up bigger than a single home or anything over a few thousand feet. CAD is essentially digital hand sketching as you've got to draw near everything one line at a time minus a few blocks.
My biggest reason for being a proponent of BIM is less about the 'info' part of the acronym- which is also a massive time saver, but more about the ability to coordinate quickly. I'm sure plenty of us have had to deal with engineers drawing their pipes and ducts right through feature walls and non-movable existing columns etc. A 3D walk through shows their collisions in an accurately portrayed easily understandable perspective view, something which takes 5 times as much time and as many phone calls to convey via a 2D medium.
That sure looks glamorous, doesn't it? Exchange the drafting tables for sewing machines and we could take a stroll down memory lane on the old Lower East Side.
Miles CAD is weak at best once one has harnessed the power of Revit. I know how to use CAD and I know all the things other programs can do that CAD can't and that's why I hate it. I'm sure it was revolutionary at the time, now it's one of the dumbest programs out there. It is easy for computer illiterate to function with it so I guess there's that. And for the record I sketch with a good only pencil whenever it makes sense to. For CDs going to bid my pencil sketch is not ok.
HATE CAD
There's also AutoCAD LT which would only cost around $150 if you qualify for student pricing. Check out http://www.journeyed.com or http://www.studica.com
AutoCAD 2006 has some new bells and whistles that I frankly don't care for and turn off. I'm assuming it will still be there in ver. 2007. Here's an article that would show you how to turn the settings off.
http://management.cadalyst.com/cadman/article/articleDetail.jsp?id=309644
autoCAD-best line drawing program made by humankind. <period>
ACAD is the most versitile of all the programs and can be used simply or complexly. It would be wise as an ACAD virgin to get your butt to a jr college for a 6 week intro course and then to a job where you can spend a year or 2 learning the program and how its used for different steps in the process of designing and executing a building. Its by far the largest program with the most users and for good reason.
Pimpamzee - long time no hear. Expect a call 2morow, I have 2 leads you be intereted in. On ACAD of course. You still fighting with the Archicad Demon or has it grown on you? Asta....
I took a class in AutoCAD that basically taught me nothing. The best way, IMO, to learn it is to work in an office sitting in a desk next to someone who knows it well and can explain it to you. Start with an existing drawing that needs to be revised, spend 8-hour days for the next month doing it and constantly asking your deskmate questions, and you'll get it.
the problem is getting someone that will hire you without autoCAD experience...I guess you can lie on your resume...
but I cant fake it
have to agree with aaargink ...
and liberty bell as well ... the best way to learn Acad is by query and practice... classes wont do anything for you ( except for maybe some nice snooze)
Its just so frustrating when I see my classmate presenting their work using cad, (don’t get me wrong, good for them) last week this girl presented her project she actually walked us thru her drawing w/ the freaking computer. It was like watching a cartoon. So when I do my presentation it's not even anything close to those who are using cad, and that sucks. That’s why I have to learn; it’s all about how you present your project and even though my work is good I cant compete with someone who is using cad with Photoshop or whatever they are using.
probably with 3dmax...
but you gotta keep up with the rest sheri ...there just is no other way. I understand the frustration ... and you'll like using it too, once you get the hang of it.
but remember "alway design using pen and paper ... only the drafting should be on cad!!!"
Hi vindpust
long time no see ?
when i first learned autocad i had a deadline for a school project ( for me, the best incentive for learning new software ) and a good friend sitting close to his phone to answer questions as i floundered my way through paper space. it took a good day or two before i stopped calling him, but i don't remember the software itself being that hard.
is there something specific about the software that drives you barmy or just at a loss with where to start?
hey.. thats exactly how i learned it too .. ^^
of course i didn't have a friend helping!!
i have to admit to learning cad in a class. at the time i felt like i was falling behind by not knowing it. i took a night class at the architecture school in town (useless: why teach how the program was developed? i had to learn pascal, for goodness sake!) and then wised up and paid $110 for a class at the technical school. didn't teach me everything i needed, but gave me a huge jumpstart.
sheri,
I'm concerned about one thing here--
Simply doing a presentation on cad versus pencil and paper (or pen and bond, or ink and mylar, etc etc) will NOT magically make it a better project. *Especially* if working in cad is not natural to you.
If you want to make better presentations, then think deeply about your project and yourself and the best way to communicate the ideas/spaces that are the strongest of your project.
I struggled with this for years in school and finally figured out what worked best for me and what presented MY projects well. I never presented a project using cad in school, but my presentations reflected me and my projects and I did well in them.
If i were you, I would talk to your professor, explain that you are frustrated with feeling like cad presentations outstrip yours, and what would he/she recommend to show your project off the best?
also I have seen some AWFUL all-cad presentations. And they were ripped apart in critique. I have also seen some decent ones. The presentation idea and resolution is what's important; the tool is not.
And if you're at a school where the mere appearance of cad alone is like some magical flute that blows away your professors, then frankly I would seriously doubt the worth of that school.
myriam is right on with these last two comments. My belief is that slick cad drawings can hide a multitude of mistakes, what you want for your presentations is a presentation style that will best sell your ideas. Cad is a tool, nothing more, and is probably most often not the right tool. My partner and I do a hell of a lot of client presentations using a quick hand-drafted drawing overlaid with hand rendering and markers. Cad is basically only used for construction documents.
But it sounds to me like you are going to be doing professional work soon and feel you need the cad in the workplace? Be honest with a potential employer, tell them you have such strong skills in X and Y (nad rendering, putting together a finish schedule, RCPs, whatever)that they will want to hire you, and you have no doubt that a few days/couple weeks learning cad by doing it for them you will be right up to speed.
just from experience good luck...learn some cad though.
I always get A’s on my projects, my problem is that I always compare myself w/ those who do a great job on their presentations, and I agree, I've seen bad work as well w/ cad. But in my opinion two people (cad vs. pen) who both do an equally good job on their project, the one using cad will always out perform the one using pen.
cad doesn't look as good as a drawing-fetish object.
but it often frees up certain mechanical aspects of the presentation/process.
i missed the bit about using cad for presentations. i don't think it is that important to use cad at that stage of things, even in our toy-story culture.
One of my favorite architects is peter salter, who i somehow get the feeling is not a big CAD fan.
peter did a building about 20 minutes from my home in the country. it is still one of my favorites. doesn't look so much like his drawings but does capture the feeling of them i think, which is in the end more important...
autocad is easy to use. just print out your pgp file and learn the commands.
On Wednesday of this week, at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00
in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06.
That won't ever happen again.
depends where you live.
In NZ [and many other countries], we have dd.mm.yy calender formatting, so it wont happen until the 4th of May - 1 day before my birthday.
my boss emailed the same thing to me and i didn't even pay attention to what it was about...i finally got it
"One of my favorite architects is peter salter, who i somehow get the feeling is not a big CAD fan."
He used to be head of my univesity (UEL) now he is at the AA. We had his drawings up and they are amazing when you take a good look at them, it gave me that warm i can't do shit feeling.
think about the big picture...
"On Wednesday of this week, at two minutes and three seconds after 1:00
in the morning, the time and date will be 01:02:03 04/05/06.
That won't ever happen again. "
It will in 3006.
If L.Ron Hubbard doesn't get us all by then.
That's a much bigger picture than you need to look at. It happens next in 2106
true 'nuff. all of my old girlfriends accused me of the same thing.
always snap to 0,0
VECTORWORKS! very intuitive
however have been using autocad the last few years and it is the most frustrating program. why do i have to write code?
What "code" are you writing for AutoCAD?
Love this zombie thread. I wonder if OP hates Revit now :)
Coincedently tduds I'm writing some code in Python for Dynamo in Revit right now does that count? It links excel sheets with code notes... snooze. I used to love the old autocad lisp routines. Can I get some squiggly lines up in here? Anyone?
Revit is like Democracy. It's the worst thing there is, except for all the other things I've tried.
Is this thread title anything like "hate-fuck"? Because I feel like I hate-cad all day long sometimes.
On another topic, I miss myriam. She's awesome.
Donna++
My old boss insisted on using nothing but SketchUp and AutoCAD. Hate-CADing was 75% of my days there.
Oh yeah HATE-CADing : Like when you're in the zone, drafting real fast and punching that space bar hard. Like it deserves it. The feels!
I have been doing AutoCad professionally for almost 20 years now. I can't think of a more simple cad program to learn on the fly and be able to draw lines, circles, etc. Basic geometry we are talking and spit out a drawing in 5 10 minutes. You just need someone who is well versed in the software to teach you the fundamentals of it and the core commands like move, scale, line, stretch, text, etc. Once you get those down and practice with them everything else will fall into place. Best of luck.
How people find this 10+ year old thread? They honestly type HATE CAD in the search field?
Yeah I'm assuming if the OP really didn't wan to pick up CAD, s/he is most definately out of the profession by now.
Revit to me is easier and more realistic. I love designing buildings with Revit, but my firm is not really as "good" with the software as I would have hoped. I am the most experienced Revit draftsman in my whole office and I work at a big firm specializing in health care design. Revit to me is the best way to design a building from the smart structural components to the ability from creating individual construction components to replicate the "actual" process of building from start to finish.
CAD has ruined many otherwise perfectly wonderful days. Today, for instance. Really want to just draw on some scraps of paper.
I'm thinking of going in that direction.
As an old boomer who cut his teeth on graphite on mylar, I don't miss those days. Sitting on a stool humped over a drafting table. Graphite all over your arm and shirt. A painful indentation in your index finger after hand lettering notes most of the day. Having to "freshen up" line work after the tracing had been handled too many times. Manually checking dimensions. Erasing and moving shit over and over again. Not quickly knowing whether elements that were supposed to line up really did without extensive dimension verification. Yeeech.
Can't comment on Revit, but the biggest complaint with AutoCad was the feature bloat with every new release. Sometimes seemed like the hard way to a simple drawing. But, overall, CAD is better. Plus, you get to sit in a comfortable chair at desk height rather than a grey metal drafting stool with a masonite seat. No small improvement.
It would be nice to do just field type sketches though. I recently came across an old grading document from the 60's that was literally a few lines hand drawn, not to scale, and the word retaining walls scribbled on it. To produce the same document today with the technology available means a LOT more work.
I'm not exactly old, but I started my career by handdrafting too. Worked for a guy in his 80's when I was a student. I like to stand to draft.
My biggest reason for being a proponent of BIM is less about the 'info' part of the acronym- which is also a massive time saver, but more about the ability to coordinate quickly. I'm sure plenty of us have had to deal with engineers drawing their pipes and ducts right through feature walls and non-movable existing columns etc. A 3D walk through shows their collisions in an accurately portrayed easily understandable perspective view, something which takes 5 times as much time and as many phone calls to convey via a 2D medium.
@geezertect :)
via: https://www.facebook.com/MAGlC...
That sure looks glamorous, doesn't it? Exchange the drafting tables for sewing machines and we could take a stroll down memory lane on the old Lower East Side.
Exactly
The power of CAD is often wasted by people who have no idea how to use it.
True, same goes for BIM and the good ol' pencil.
CAD - small brain
CAD Architecture - normal brain
Revit - big brain
Dynamo - exploding brain
https://thinkparametric.com/
20 years ago I had a colleague who decided she didn't want to be a Cad operator, as i was being relegated to being, she wanted to design.
She refused to work on CAD as a result, and got design work.
I wish I'd had the nerve to do the same.
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