A small rare book store by my house has a library copy in good condition other than the library stamps. I see someones trying to sell one on amazon for $374, the guy at the bookstore wants $135, is it worth it with the possibility to resell?
I agree with makeA, by 'book collector' standards, the library stamps are a major drawback. But does this book have 'collectability' or is it just rare and (worth) while?
the question remains: if you want to buy a book purely to remove the library stamps and sell it for a 239$ profit margin, you still have to have someone willing to buy it at that price.
my advice...find an actual library copy...and photocopy the whole book. read it. read it again. wait two weeks. rinse. repeat. pick it up years later and it will put you back on the rails if you're beginning to veer off course. Zumthor's words are invaluable in this text.
that book is always with me. Personally, I find it to be one of the most important books I've ever read. if you haven't read it, do so...you may never want to part with it.
I know how important this book has been to me, but can't understand the price...I think I paid 25bucks for it a few years ago while at school. Is it out of print...never to be re-printed?
sometimes depends on if the publisher cares or knows there is a high demand for a particular book. i looked for "condemned buildings" for years, even writing princeton press. eventually i found a couple of outrageously expensive copies but fortunately around the same time i got an email from princeton press saying they were reprinting it, saving me oodles of cash and getting a brand new copy in the process.
We can only hope, i suppose, that Zumthor's work gets its rightful praise in short order. After the Berlin Project's outcome, i can only hope he has something else on the boards that will demand attention from the design community. That would have been one hell of a project.
heck, i'd buy another one...mine is worn, the cover is dirty and there's that pesky autograph inside the front cover;-)
seriously, though...good idea, Reason.
i'll send an email along....and don't forget to ask about "Peter Zumthor Works" 1979-1997 from Lars Muller Publishers...that is an exquisite book and, like "Thinking Architecture", it is going for horrendous prices on Amazon...825$ and 925$ for the two copies available. i may take my copy home from the office today...better safe than sorry.
i don't think princeton publishes this book. maybe they are in charge of distribution it in the u.s.? my mentioning pap was just an example of what happens when enough people bug the publisher.
I believe Birkhauser published Thinking Architecture... the 2 people I would e-mail are Gregor Messmer, Head of Production Book and Journals, and Craig Barris, Head of International Architectural Sales
well some of those prices are relative.. i once saw libeskind's theatrum mundi for sale for $1000. after looking a little longer i found it brand new for $40. it pays to be patient and do your research.
12/01/04 15:13
i wrote lars mueller (the publisher) and got an email back saying it wouldnt be reprinted...i have also heard the main reason is xumthor himself doesnt want it to be reprinted...he wants people to come and see his buildings and experience them. not look at the pictures in books. just what i heard though...
relative they may be, but as the owner of one... if i ever decide to sell it, and i doubt i ever would, i will be patient. i'm sure i'll find someone who wants it bad enough. and they do seem pretty hard to come by. nothing on barnes and noble and william stout out of print sections. nothing on ebay.
That frigging sucks...not all of us can afford to go over to Europe to see his bldgs. Plus maybe I like to read his thoughts? How the hell am I supposed to read it now? I'll pay anyone here 10 bucks for a photocopy....or how about a series of PDFs???
if you want the italian version of 'thinking architecture', you can snag it at william stout books (for list price no less).
and, if you're just looking for a monograph on his work, the a+u special edition is still in print (70), has beautiful color photos, as well as some essays in the back - one by zumthor, the others, by, well, others.
finally, one of the best essays on his work (yeah, i know, it's not his own writing, which was the starting point of the thread) is in an old ottagono issue, somewhere around 100. it was written by wilfried wang and i think it was called something like 'silent articulations'. about the early work, but worth digging up if you're near a library that carries that journal.
‘Un architettura di silenziose articolazioni: sull’opera di Peter Zumthor = An architecture of silent articulations on the work of Peter Zumthor’ / article by Wilfried Wang in Ottagono no.97 December 1990 / p.[48-80] (text in Italian+English)
Zumthor is the man. While the rats scurry around for a scrap of architectural fame and a dollops worth of ink in an overpriced and under-read magazine, he just doesn't give a shit about anything but (capital A) Architecture.
It's our own professional mythology, with PZ as Apollo and Rem as Dionysus.
i wouldn't be so sure about the fact that he doesn't 'give a shit' about the media - there was a pretty big blitz that happened in the late 90's and according to someone who knows him very well (one of my former professors), he wasn't exactly some innocent bystander in letting all that ink flow. not to say that he isn't cynical in his views towards the press, but not innocent or rebellious either. just, like his work, very, very subtle.
That's really terrible. Of course we will visit the building when have the chance, but why can't read the book first? I will borrow a copy from library and make my own copy.
amazon has about 14 pages of thinking architecture availble to read online
it was quit interesting to read in context of this discussion - especially for
all of us without a copy...enjoy
The first edition of SMLXL enjoyed a similar run on the bank several years back, with issues selling for $500 and up on ebay. (Though first editions are still listed at high prices, the reprints effectively killed the idea that you could have a gaggle of kids willing to throw down that kind of money just to have a copy). It would be hard to believe we'll never see reprints - who else has done such a thing (besides Donald Judd's estate)? If Z were really not interested in seeing the books reprinted at any point because of some lofty virtue to be found in denying access to those who can't see the buildings in person, as some on this forum seem to suggest, why does he keep putting out books (or allowing books on his buildings to be put out) - or better yet, why the fuss about such high quality photography and atmospherics in the books he's done?
g-love, i like this idea of zumthor orchestrating a media blitz only to pull back and further the mystique. besides wooing graduate students with this method, he's probably also selling his stockpile of "thinking architecture" for 300 bones a pop on the side.
seriously though, thanks for the inside information. i wonder if the media blitz produced a result or a sort of attention he hadn't hoped for, hence the resulting j.d. salinger-esque retreat into isolation? i mean, look around for the guy, he's a ghost.
for all others, reason's suggestion about a local university is a good one. that's where i got my copy. or rather, my photocopy of a copy.
i just got this email back from PAP...less than 24 hr turnaround..i'm impressed. as has been noted in the discussion above, PAP is just the distributor but at least this is going up the ladder from PAP and not just our lonely voices, alone.
Hi,
We have been asked over and over for these works. However, we don't
hold the copyright. We simply are the US distributors. We've asked our
sister company many times to reprint both these books and I think we're
finally going to see a little action on Works, but I'm not 100% sure
yet.
I will happily pass your email over to Birkhauser since I'd love to
sell more of these books too.
Sincerely,
Nettie Aljian
Nettie Aljian
Sales Director
Princeton Architectural Press
nice. everyone should write letters to both pap and birkhauser. from the response above, it seems our letters would be the best way to get them both republished.
since we're on this topic...does anyone here know of some other seminal works we should all own but can't because they're out of print? viva la revolucion! lets get these things reprinted!
i have "Synergetics Folio: A Collection Of Ten Posters" With Introductory Essay By Buckminster Fuller: Privately printed. c1979, soft cover. not sure of it's value, but it's pretty hard to come by. the folio unfolds to a wall mural of 207" long.
droog - i don't know if the kind of intensity caused a backlash or not. my teacher said he's an incredibly complicated person, full of all the usual and unusual contradictions. i suspect that he may have just run into a stretch where some larger projects - there's one university building that was on this site a while back - are just now nearing completion, some may have just fizzled out. he went after a number of u.s. projects right around 1999-2000, but didn't get any of them. maybe that just soured him on the whole international schtick. i'm just speculating though.
for everyone else, given the ridiculous prices on amazon, jet over to barnes and noble and pick up 'sound body box', on a post holiday sale, for a measly 10 bucks. same type of format as 'thinking architecture'...
Well, with the dismantling of the Topography of Terror in Berlin this fall, he may have ended the year with more unbuilding than new building - Martin would be so proud. Though I gather this is still poking along:
thank you for your message and adding your vote to the lobby in favour of reprinting these Zumthor publications.
Rest assured, we are negotiating with Peter Zumthor, although without definite results as yet. However, we will be sure to advertise any reprints or new editions on our website, if and when we manage to reach an agreement with Zumthor.
thanks for the update, g-love. i'm sorry to hear zumthor is stalling things. While i don't think Zumthor's theories, found in Thinking Architecture, are all that 'fashionable' nowadays, i think the ideas are sound and worthy of reprinting. They are timeless.
While i can't say that its a personality issue for sure, i can imagine that Zumthor may be arguing for the publishing of some new work instead of older stuff. The publisher may be reluctant to do so hence the conflict. Again, its all a theory. i spoke to Zumthor once on the telephone and while gruff, he was certainly cordial by the end of the conversation. i hope they work out their differences. i'd like to see him get more published...but way beyond that, i'd much rather see him get more built, instead.
reasonable price for Zumthor's "Thinking Architecture"
A small rare book store by my house has a library copy in good condition other than the library stamps. I see someones trying to sell one on amazon for $374, the guy at the bookstore wants $135, is it worth it with the possibility to resell?
Books with library stamps are difficult to resell. Many times they are rendered worthless by the stamp.
I agree with makeA, by 'book collector' standards, the library stamps are a major drawback. But does this book have 'collectability' or is it just rare and (worth) while?
the question remains: if you want to buy a book purely to remove the library stamps and sell it for a 239$ profit margin, you still have to have someone willing to buy it at that price.
my advice...find an actual library copy...and photocopy the whole book. read it. read it again. wait two weeks. rinse. repeat. pick it up years later and it will put you back on the rails if you're beginning to veer off course. Zumthor's words are invaluable in this text.
that book is always with me. Personally, I find it to be one of the most important books I've ever read. if you haven't read it, do so...you may never want to part with it.
I know how important this book has been to me, but can't understand the price...I think I paid 25bucks for it a few years ago while at school. Is it out of print...never to be re-printed?
I'm wondering about the same thing, since so many people interested in the book, why can't they just reprint it?
sometimes depends on if the publisher cares or knows there is a high demand for a particular book. i looked for "condemned buildings" for years, even writing princeton press. eventually i found a couple of outrageously expensive copies but fortunately around the same time i got an email from princeton press saying they were reprinting it, saving me oodles of cash and getting a brand new copy in the process.
We can only hope, i suppose, that Zumthor's work gets its rightful praise in short order. After the Berlin Project's outcome, i can only hope he has something else on the boards that will demand attention from the design community. That would have been one hell of a project.
Anybody heard anything from PZ lately?
Maybe we should all write to the publisher to require a reprint of the thinking architecture.
heck, i'd buy another one...mine is worn, the cover is dirty and there's that pesky autograph inside the front cover;-)
seriously, though...good idea, Reason.
i'll send an email along....and don't forget to ask about "Peter Zumthor Works" 1979-1997 from Lars Muller Publishers...that is an exquisite book and, like "Thinking Architecture", it is going for horrendous prices on Amazon...825$ and 925$ for the two copies available. i may take my copy home from the office today...better safe than sorry.
they distribute both books, btw.
instrumentOFaction , what is the e-mail address? I'd like to send one soon.
i don't think princeton publishes this book. maybe they are in charge of distribution it in the u.s.? my mentioning pap was just an example of what happens when enough people bug the publisher.
check for publisher here
I'll be happy to email them also.
I believe Birkhauser published Thinking Architecture... the 2 people I would e-mail are Gregor Messmer, Head of Production Book and Journals, and Craig Barris, Head of International Architectural Sales
e-mails listed here
i figure we have to work up the ladder...both books are listed as out of print via PAP. check it out.
wow, "peter zumthor works 1979-1997" is going for almost $1000? shit, i'll definately take good care of mine.
well some of those prices are relative.. i once saw libeskind's theatrum mundi for sale for $1000. after looking a little longer i found it brand new for $40. it pays to be patient and do your research.
Someone on an older thread mentioned that Zumthor wouldn't let it be republished
construct
Total Entries: 2
Total Comments: 44
12/01/04 15:13
i wrote lars mueller (the publisher) and got an email back saying it wouldnt be reprinted...i have also heard the main reason is xumthor himself doesnt want it to be reprinted...he wants people to come and see his buildings and experience them. not look at the pictures in books. just what i heard though...
http://www.archinect.com/forum/threads.php?id=P10653_0_42_0_C
relative they may be, but as the owner of one... if i ever decide to sell it, and i doubt i ever would, i will be patient. i'm sure i'll find someone who wants it bad enough. and they do seem pretty hard to come by. nothing on barnes and noble and william stout out of print sections. nothing on ebay.
That frigging sucks...not all of us can afford to go over to Europe to see his bldgs. Plus maybe I like to read his thoughts? How the hell am I supposed to read it now? I'll pay anyone here 10 bucks for a photocopy....or how about a series of PDFs???
if you want the italian version of 'thinking architecture', you can snag it at william stout books (for list price no less).
and, if you're just looking for a monograph on his work, the a+u special edition is still in print (70), has beautiful color photos, as well as some essays in the back - one by zumthor, the others, by, well, others.
finally, one of the best essays on his work (yeah, i know, it's not his own writing, which was the starting point of the thread) is in an old ottagono issue, somewhere around 100. it was written by wilfried wang and i think it was called something like 'silent articulations'. about the early work, but worth digging up if you're near a library that carries that journal.
‘Un architettura di silenziose articolazioni: sull’opera di Peter Zumthor = An architecture of silent articulations on the work of Peter Zumthor’ / article by Wilfried Wang in Ottagono no.97 December 1990 / p.[48-80] (text in Italian+English)
close.
Zumthor is the man. While the rats scurry around for a scrap of architectural fame and a dollops worth of ink in an overpriced and under-read magazine, he just doesn't give a shit about anything but (capital A) Architecture.
It's our own professional mythology, with PZ as Apollo and Rem as Dionysus.
link to a very complete zumthor bibliography.
i wouldn't be so sure about the fact that he doesn't 'give a shit' about the media - there was a pretty big blitz that happened in the late 90's and according to someone who knows him very well (one of my former professors), he wasn't exactly some innocent bystander in letting all that ink flow. not to say that he isn't cynical in his views towards the press, but not innocent or rebellious either. just, like his work, very, very subtle.
That's really terrible. Of course we will visit the building when have the chance, but why can't read the book first? I will borrow a copy from library and make my own copy.
What library has it? I'd be shocked...
CHECK OUT LOCAL UNIVERSITY, THEY USUALLY HAVE IT.
amazon has about 14 pages of thinking architecture availble to read online
it was quit interesting to read in context of this discussion - especially for
all of us without a copy...enjoy
http://www.amazon.com/gp/reader/1568981449/ref=sib_dp_bod_ex/103-0516102-5056630?%5Fencoding=UTF8&p=S005#reader-link
sweet pete!!!!! I'm tempted to try and sell my zumthor books to buy a ticket to switzerland! that is some kooky amount of money for books!
The first edition of SMLXL enjoyed a similar run on the bank several years back, with issues selling for $500 and up on ebay. (Though first editions are still listed at high prices, the reprints effectively killed the idea that you could have a gaggle of kids willing to throw down that kind of money just to have a copy). It would be hard to believe we'll never see reprints - who else has done such a thing (besides Donald Judd's estate)? If Z were really not interested in seeing the books reprinted at any point because of some lofty virtue to be found in denying access to those who can't see the buildings in person, as some on this forum seem to suggest, why does he keep putting out books (or allowing books on his buildings to be put out) - or better yet, why the fuss about such high quality photography and atmospherics in the books he's done?
g-love, i like this idea of zumthor orchestrating a media blitz only to pull back and further the mystique. besides wooing graduate students with this method, he's probably also selling his stockpile of "thinking architecture" for 300 bones a pop on the side.
seriously though, thanks for the inside information. i wonder if the media blitz produced a result or a sort of attention he hadn't hoped for, hence the resulting j.d. salinger-esque retreat into isolation? i mean, look around for the guy, he's a ghost.
for all others, reason's suggestion about a local university is a good one. that's where i got my copy. or rather, my photocopy of a copy.
i just got this email back from PAP...less than 24 hr turnaround..i'm impressed. as has been noted in the discussion above, PAP is just the distributor but at least this is going up the ladder from PAP and not just our lonely voices, alone.
Hi,
We have been asked over and over for these works. However, we don't
hold the copyright. We simply are the US distributors. We've asked our
sister company many times to reprint both these books and I think we're
finally going to see a little action on Works, but I'm not 100% sure
yet.
I will happily pass your email over to Birkhauser since I'd love to
sell more of these books too.
Sincerely,
Nettie Aljian
Nettie Aljian
Sales Director
Princeton Architectural Press
Yeessss.
nice. everyone should write letters to both pap and birkhauser. from the response above, it seems our letters would be the best way to get them both republished.
why does there appear to be two ISBN numbers for this book?
1
2
good idea, ether. lets get this ball rolling. demand > supply.
as Nick listed above in a link:
Craig Barris
International Sales Manager Architecture
Birkhäuser Publishing Ltd
Marketing
Viaduktstrasse 42
CH-4051 Basel
Tel: +41 61 205 07 38
Fax: +41 61 205 07 92
barris@birkhauser.ch
ether...dunno. both are listed on the amazon site as german text, though.
these are the ISBN's from the PAP website. i'd go with these.
ISBN 1568981449 Thinking Architecture
ISBN 3764360992 PZ Works
since we're on this topic...does anyone here know of some other seminal works we should all own but can't because they're out of print? viva la revolucion! lets get these things reprinted!
i have "Synergetics Folio: A Collection Of Ten Posters" With Introductory Essay By Buckminster Fuller: Privately printed. c1979, soft cover. not sure of it's value, but it's pretty hard to come by. the folio unfolds to a wall mural of 207" long.
droog - i don't know if the kind of intensity caused a backlash or not. my teacher said he's an incredibly complicated person, full of all the usual and unusual contradictions. i suspect that he may have just run into a stretch where some larger projects - there's one university building that was on this site a while back - are just now nearing completion, some may have just fizzled out. he went after a number of u.s. projects right around 1999-2000, but didn't get any of them. maybe that just soured him on the whole international schtick. i'm just speculating though.
for everyone else, given the ridiculous prices on amazon, jet over to barnes and noble and pick up 'sound body box', on a post holiday sale, for a measly 10 bucks. same type of format as 'thinking architecture'...
oh hell, here it is....
http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=aF8IqMiAKC&isbn=3764363266&itm=8
Well, with the dismantling of the Topography of Terror in Berlin this fall, he may have ended the year with more unbuilding than new building - Martin would be so proud. Though I gather this is still poking along:
http://www.kolumba.de/neubau/baustelle_2004.html
Dear *****,
thank you for your message and adding your vote to the lobby in favour of reprinting these Zumthor publications.
Rest assured, we are negotiating with Peter Zumthor, although without definite results as yet. However, we will be sure to advertise any reprints or new editions on our website, if and when we manage to reach an agreement with Zumthor.
Sincerely,
Craig Barris
International Sales
BIRKHÄUSER - PUBLISHERS FOR ARCHITECTURE
Viaduktstrasse 42
P.O. Box 133
CH-4055 Basel
SWITZERLAND
Tel.: +41 61 20 50-738
Fax: +41 61 20 50-792
Email:barris@birkhauser.ch
Sounds like zumthor is stalling the process.
thanks for the update, g-love. i'm sorry to hear zumthor is stalling things. While i don't think Zumthor's theories, found in Thinking Architecture, are all that 'fashionable' nowadays, i think the ideas are sound and worthy of reprinting. They are timeless.
While i can't say that its a personality issue for sure, i can imagine that Zumthor may be arguing for the publishing of some new work instead of older stuff. The publisher may be reluctant to do so hence the conflict. Again, its all a theory. i spoke to Zumthor once on the telephone and while gruff, he was certainly cordial by the end of the conversation. i hope they work out their differences. i'd like to see him get more published...but way beyond that, i'd much rather see him get more built, instead.
well, if you all want a copy of 'works', fork over some cash...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=378&item=4544976901&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW
for these prices why not just fly to switzerland and offer to take the guy out for lunch.
no kidding....
not bad so far, amazon listed a used one for almost five times that much a while back.
'thinking architecture' is currently available on ebay with the auction starting at $500...said to be a near mint copy.
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