So what happens if an architect in good professional standing is revealed to have a minor crime on his record due to being fingerprinted? Could he lose his license, despite the quality of his work? The TBAE absolutely reserves that right. — theatlanticcities.com
The requirement applies not just to new applicants, but also to licensed architects seeking to have their registrations renewed. Violators face a fine of up to $5,000 per day in which they are not in compliance with the new law. Currently only one other state (Massachusetts) even runs criminal background checks on architects. Now Texas is upping the ante.
26 Comments
wtf? why?
And frankly wouldn't it make more sense for architects to have their penis measured? then teh public would at least know who to hire when a grandiose statement is needed by an architect with inadequacy issues.
America, home of the free, my ass
Could he lose his license, despite the quality of his work?
This is an irrelevant question, as I'm confident every state has a code of conduct for architects that is similar to Indiana's: I can lose my license based on essentially any criminal conviction short of a traffic violation. It's up to the discretion of the licensing board whether me smoking pot or having a fight in a bar or embezzling money or building a building without a permit is sufficient reason to lose my license.
The funniest thing to me about this is Texas: FREEDOM AMERICA FUCK YEAH! is welcoming so much government intrusion.
I was at Prometric taking my ARE test yesterday and they make it mandatory to have my fingerprint taken in order to take the test. If I were to argue or delay the process of giving my fingerprints I would be 'late for my test' , loose my $210 fee for the test and wait another 6 months to take it again.
The author should at the very least add Arizona to that list, if not the whole US since only Prometric, a private company, has the monopoly on administering the tests.
Of course by stating this I risk be sued for libel, except for the fact its true to my knowledge.
-Ben Lepley
don't worry architects; texas is not part of Merica.
I also have to be fingerprinted by the City every year to volunteer at my son's public school. And if you want to get on the list to have a quicker route through security at airports in the US you have to be fingerprinted. I just don't think it's that big a deal anymore.
What sucks is that all architects in Texas are under the gun right now to get fingerprinted in the next 20-something days - right during the busiest time of the year! - or risk huge fines.
And incase you were wondering, Texas ranks 42 on the list of states with biggest penis. No wonder they'd rather not officially measure them. Better just take fingerprints.
I just don't think it's that big a deal anymore.
That's eaxatly the problem. They encroach on your freedom in small steps until you don't care anymore & give up.
How *exactly* does a government agency having my fingerprints encroach on my freedom?
Yup. So you could bye anything short of a rocket launcher in Texas with no fingerprints but architects....lol. I just bought a handgun for home protection and got it in like 10 minutes after a quick phone call.
Donna, freedom from intrusive govt is the basis of your liberty. Its no different from being asked for ID if you look mexican or being stopped and frisked if you happen to be black and walking. I personally feel that such fingerprinting is a form of search. Don't we have laws against unwarranted search. You should not be viewed as a suspect unless their is a good reason for it.
Buy not bye lol. Damn iphone.
Actually I'm pretty sure our government's existence in the first place - which will necessarily be intrusive in some areas in order to work - is the basis for our liberty.
Stop and frisk is totally different. Driving while black isn't a sufficient reason to be subject to search. But applying for a license to drive, or to work with children, or to be charged with protecting public safety are all selective choice. Verifying identity and trustworthiness in those situations isn't "search" or in any way violating "freedom".
In California they give you (with your license renewal) a credit card size ID to carry with you to verify you are an archinect. I don't know what situation would prompt the use of this extra ID? After Northridge Earthquake in early 90's, the PCH in Malibu was aligned with architects' signs and telephone numbers., offering remodel and damage reports for insurance agencies.
"hey I am an architect, I can file a favorable report for maximum insurance payback"
"you're hired"
Needlessly to say there were some cottage industries grew out of this opportunity.
yeah, ok then. we'll just keep on hating you ameircans for all you "freedoms" Damn you people are a stupid lot.
Handsum you still won't give me an example of how a government agency having my fingerprints limits my freedom. How does it? I still have free speech, and the ability to move about in public space when and where I want, and the ability to pursue education or a job and to have children and open a bank account and not be jailed if I criticize the president and leave the country and marry who I want (in most states) and take legal action against someone if they commit a crime against me and buy a house wherever I want and file for unemployment if I get fired and have a pet....what's missing? What am I no longer free to do after I put my finger on a pad and have it scanned by a government agent?
Donna, your career / lively hood / license is your property not the states property. It is also not a privilege, it is your right to pursue your property. The state may regulate it to the extent of "protecting the public", but it is still your property and it is protected under the 14th. You have due process rights. The state cant just demand compliance with the threat of fines and revoking your property right. Its bullshit. Unless the state can prove that fingerprinting is in the interest of the public, then they cannot fingerprint. To do this, they would have to prove this is a reactionary measure to some real problem that exists and is of a real and wide spread concern. There is no way that they could do this. Plain and simple. These kinds of laws only exist because no one fights them. The big industries know this and it is why the state has such a hard time regulating them. They fight off regulation (even the ones that really do protect the public.) The small industries are being subjected to heavy regulation while the big ones can literally poison people without any recourse or regulation. Complete bullshit. In fact, most occupational licensing would be gone if people fought it. Besides medicine, etc...It would be very hard to prove that something like a barbers license is absolutely necessary to protect the public. If it is unnecessary then it violates your 14th amendment rights to life liberty and property. The burden of proof always lies on the state. They need to prove it based on facts. If no one challenges them, then they can do whatever they want, but if you did challenge them..... We keep giving up more and more.....Soon grocery store employees will need a license. The lobby of the grocery store consumer protection agency will convince the state that improperly stacked cans can kill people. To work in a grocery store you will be required to pay for a class and a test....Its a big racket.
The states existence is not the basis of our liberty, the constitution is the basis. The constitution is the thing that limits the power of the state. These limits of power are the basis of our liberty. The state is over stepping here and in many other cases.
I understand your argument, jla-x, but I only understand it abstractly. In practice, as I've said in the post above, being fingerprinted doesn't prevent me from doing anything at all. We're already a regulated profession, and I think that's better than the alternative.
But the license *isn't* solely my property, as it wouldn't exist if the state did not exist. Correct?
The license is your property. Ones work/job is their property. The courts ruled this many years ago. The state cannot take away your license based on some arbitrary demand no more then they can take your house based on some arbitrary demand. If they try, you can fight them. I know its not that big of a burden, so most people wont bother fighting it, but in principle, it is a violation of your liberty. As I said, buying a gun is easy. Its easy because the NRA is fighting the regulations, and because many of the proposed regulations are unconstitutional. I don't like the NRA, but many of their arguments are correct as far as the constitutionality of the regulations proposed which is why gun regulation is impossible/difficult to pass. While I don't really like the idea of some nut being able to buy a gun, I prefer it over the state being able to regulate an individuals right to do so as long as that person has no criminal history or mental illness (no reason for state to treat everyone as a threat)... The state can try to pass what ever it wants, but if people would fight it....The problem is that when we give up one liberty (as small as it may be) we set a precedent. All the small stuff adds up. Its also a waste of public money! Do we really need to pay someone to sift through the fingerprints of architects...lol Lets put the money into education, infrastructure, etc. It would serve the public better to hire a few people to pick up trash than to monitor this shit.
and there is a thin line...proposing this is not necessarily a violation of your rights, but enforcing it would be.
Your right to the pursuit of life liberty and property is fundamental. As I said, the only time that the state can limit this right is if there is a real threat to public safety. Its not a matter of fingerprinting being good or bad, its a matter of it being necessary. If it is not 100% necessary to protect the public from a real threat then the state is over stepping its power and creating an unfair burden on ones pursuit of property. In other words the pursuit should only be as burdensome as it must be to protect the publics interest. Anything else is a violation of your liberty. There are very few cases where liberty can be limited for public safety...(yelling fire in a theater, etc..)
Well just paid $47.00 usd for fingerprints to comply....the body cavity search was free...I would of fought something like this, but didn't even see this on the radar. Got my letter 3 days ago..
soon they will require a drug test to keep license.
The state cannot take away your license based on some arbitrary demand
But this isn't some arbitrary demand…they've written it into law. And previous to the fingerprinting law most states have already written into law that they *can* take away your license if you engage in criminal conduct.
The license to practice legally is *not* my property. It's a privilege granted by the state to those who meet the requirements. Same with driver's licenses. Anyone has the right to try to get a license but if you can't meet the requirements then you can't get one.
And I still don't see how this limits my liberty/freedom.
mitstakes? we don't make mistakes.
I prefer this movie:
Carls Jr. Computer: Enjoy your EXTRA BIG ASS FRIES!
Woman at Carls Jr.: You didn't give me no fries, I got an empty box.
Carls Jr. Computer: Would you like another EXTRA BIG ASS FRIES?
Woman at Carls Jr.: I said I didn't get any!
Carls Jr. Computer: Thank you! Your account has been charged. Your balance is zero. Please come back when you can afford to make a purchase.
Woman at Carls Jr.: What? NO! [She hits the machine. An alarm goes
off, and a sign appears on the computer saying "Carls Jr. Frowns
Upon Vandalism."]
Carls Jr. Computer: I'm sorry you're having trouble. I'm sorry
you're having trouble.
Woman at Carls Jr.: My kids are starvin!
Carls Jr. Computer: [the woman kicks the computer, and it sprays a
chloroform-like substance in her face, knocking her out] This
should help you calm down. Please come back when you can afford to
make a purchase. Your kids are starving. Carls Jr. believes that
no child should go hungry. You are an unfit mother. Your children
will be placed in the custody of Carls Jr.
the state had no reason to assume that you are guilty of fraud so therefore has no right to subject you to a process of proving your innocence. This issue pisses me off because occupational licensing in and of itself is nothing more than a form of protectionism. A medieval guild system. It is completely anti-american and it has real economic effect on the middle and working class. These occupational licenses are always brought into effect by some lobbying group that has a financial interest. The public rarely ever demands the regulation, and whrn they do, its usually a necessary one like the regulations on wall street or the regulations on gmos. These usually never get anywhere. We are narrowing diversity through the structure and limiting entrepreneurship by imposing barriers of entry.
One's fingerprints are security data. The theft or abuse of one's security data creates personal and financial risk. Government authorities are no better than anyone else at maintaining data. For example, when I measured a police office I found files containing confidential from recent years strewn about in a disused basement shooting range.
One's fingerprints help the government know nothing regarding my trustworthiness as an architect.
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